Originally posted by hoopty

Its really none of there business..And i am sure allot of players are going to fill it with false information..And that site does not look Secure enough for me to give them that info..Further more I dont trust a game company i do not know that well..

especially one that asks for such unrelated info...

hm...now i'm having seconds thoughts about signing up

I enjoyed the game, I just stopped playing it after my first month of paying because I wasn't 100% sure it was worth the money. and If I'm going to pay for it-then I have to be sure. I will enjoy the game as a F2P though, and I think it will probably thrive with a cash shop model.

I've been playing NWN2. Although I didn't enjoy the game as much as the original, there are some incredible mods, that MUST be played. (if you enjoy the NWN system).

I've been getting back into offline PC games, although it seems to be harder to find RPGs. Maybe its just me

Originally posted by Gennadios

 Personally I'm against the idea.

I'm too much of a fan of the Proph system where each class was a basic template and putting together different archetypes was a matter of dual-classing (Paladin = W/Mo.)

Anet screwed that up somewhat with the 4 additional classes from the later campaigns, and honestly, Anet seems to have abandonned all processes and ideals that they valued so highly in GW. All I can say is that if there actually IS souch a thing as a paladin class in GW2, the GW might as well not have a sequel.

Exactly. The first thing I thought when I read the thread title was.."How would that be different from a War/Mnk?". Nice to see someone else had the same thought.

Originally posted by Antarious

Originally posted by merv808

While RMT isn't a dealbreaker for me, it does have me "concerned"

But you do know who we have to blame for this. Gold-buyer, of course. Yup, those same people we've been pissed about for years. The guys that go to these companies and purchase, levels, characters and in game money for real cash. It was only a matter of time before developers started trying to get that money for themselves.

 

I'm sorry but I just don't agree with this.

 

You know EA has long had MicroTransactions in Ultima Online?  I think probably the first "gold seller" I personally really remember hearing about was Yantis in EQ.  Well EA was selling "advanced services" before I ever heard about Yantis.

 

So I don't see the "gold buying" market as being the inspiration.

 

I would say it perhaps highlighted that people would pay for XXX...  EA obviously had this idea a long time ago..  One of the first services in UO was "advanced character templates" .. *.*

 

Kind of sad tho to be honest.  You know why?

 

Because rather than having developers sit down and say:

 

1) How can we design the game to be more interesting.

 

or

 

2) what cool things can we give crafters to make/sell to other palyers.

 

Developers go and want to charge you extra money for things that should be part of the game.. or to BYPASS their crap design.

 

So rather than being mad at gold buyers... I think that anger needs to be directed where it should be.  The development companies.  It is something that inspires bad development and then allows you to take RMT and use it to exploit your player base even more.  

 

This is just my opinion... obviously....

 

Fluff items aren't that bad.. but they should be part of a player crafting system or "rares" like UO used to have when i played.  Rather than another way to milk money out of people.

 

Obviously MT's are optional... but in some games if I'm a crafter its NOT optional to be able to make the items I used to make which are all being moved to MicroTransaction items.

Disagree all you want. But if gold selling/power leveling companies weren't making money hand over fist, we "probably" wouldn't be seeing this. (At least not on the scale that we are beginning to see it on). I mean, this is going to be a part of every major game release for the forseeable future. "Lazy" gamers spend millions on characters, levels, and gold to the point that devs can't figure out effective ways to keep it out of their games. If I were a game company I would obviously be figuring out ways to put at least some of that money into my own pocket. Maybe that is greed, and maybe not. As a businessman if I see a market....

While RMT isn't a dealbreaker for me, it does have me "concerned"

But you do know who we have to blame for this. Gold-buyer, of course. Yup, those same people we've been pissed about for years. The guys that go to these companies and purchase, levels, characters and in game money for real cash. It was only a matter of time before developers started trying to get that money for themselves.

I'm wondering, how many people complaining on this thread, have used these companies?

I am a, "don't have time" player. I don't have a ton of time to play my MMOs, But I enjoy them for what they are. I don't care about having the best gear unless I earned it, and I don't care about having the highest level unless I worked to get there. People need to not be so proud of the reward, and learn to take pride in the work they did to earn it.

In any event, those who feel they have to purchase content because they "don't have time" Need to find a different hobby. Because if anyone walks away from the MMO genre, I don't want it to be those of us that understand how the games are supposed to be played.

Originally posted by ZodiaEclipse

I don't think that most people dispise F2P its just they prefer subscription based models because they percieve there being more vaule to them. If I'm between games and short on cash then I'll happily jump on a F2P game to pass the time, but most have a distinctly "free" feeling to them. The communities aren't usually very friendly (from my experience) and they usually quickly give up all pretense of being quest driven stories in favor of mindless grind sessions to unlock better gear.

 

Subscription based games simply have more options and, typically, a more regulated user base. I also dislike cash shops because if you want to really play for free you have to bypass a lot of customization options that are readily available to pay members so even if the items don't give a real advantage in game play I still get tired of looking exactly like everyone else who doesn't want to pay for better gear.

 

Like someone else mentioned, F2P can be a nice diversion, but if you want to find a game to really be part of then do yourself a favor and pay a monthly fee to have access to all the extras and service F2P are lacking.

I can agree with that. But lately there haven't been any P2P games worth my money. So I'll happily be enjoying SMT:Megaten, while I wait.

yeah I'm a BIG fan of Head Coach, so I'm looking forward to this

Originally posted by thanith

Originally posted by drbaltazar

Originally posted by Josher

DO people who keep making these "PLAY F2P..." threads get paid by these companies to do so?  Why else would people go out of their way to defend them unless they're profiting off of them, since thats what F2P is all about?  Think about it=)  Its all a part of the game.  The more people you can sucker into playing them, the most stuff you can sell to them.  BRILLIANT!!!

do you mean your getting paid to support p2p game josh ?

 

hm my personal impression is:

1. there is a large base of "asian" game supporters here who fight for whatever microtransaction crap comes along
2. i do not think any reasonable person does this for nothing  :)
3. there is a tight competition in the microtransaction game market, it is tough to follow all the realeases which spam the mmorpg market. so evey new release tries to get their "supporter" in generating cash for their companies
4. many former p2p games went microtransaction for the one and only reasothat they were a financial desater not beeing able to survive in the p2p market, remember crap like DnL and other bullshit that wennt microtransaction because of bankrupt companies.!
5. such game ar an easy way for companies to deliver unfinished products and let the customers pay for everything that should have been included in a properly designed game
6. it looks also an easy way to milk every dime out of the customers as everything "special" has to be payed in cash. they think its easy to get more out of the customers for less value!

 

ummm #5...how is that different with P2P games? How many times have you gone and bought a $50 box, with an unfinished product?

Again, I play F2P games, all the time, I enjoy them, and I don't pay a dime. If anyone thinks that you have to pay, then you're missing the point of these games. I don't have to have the coolest n best gear. I don't need it. I don't need the cool looking accessories. And I don't want the power ups. None of those things are worth my money. I'm to old to try to be "cool".

When I get into a game, whether its p2p or free, my whole goal is to have fun, meet people, and advance my character/story (in that order) I don't try to "win" because outside of pvp (which i don't do) there is no "winning" in MMORPG's. These games are about the sense of an adventure, not about the end of it.

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by SubL_Jedi

It's funny how people despise a game that's free to play meaning you don't have to do anything but download and play it. You don't have to pay a penny, they are giving you this. It's like throwing your mom's gifts back in her face (spoiled brat). I love free to play games and i really appreciate the time and effort put into the games that are given to me. They might not be the best but are you paying your money to help them develop it?

 

It's a lie. No game is free to play. Someone is always paying. You may be okay with the way that works but don't ever say they're free. It's a lie

It's not a lie. These games are absoutely free for me. I play them and I don't pay a dime. Not one. I just enjoy the game as it is, and for as long as it is fun. Then I quit. Just like with P2P games.

why not just make it free?

I played FFXI for years, it was the first MMO i spent a whole lot of time in. I loved to travel the terrain, go out exploring and sightseeing. I spent a lot of time doing this before I got my chocobo liscence. I never missed jumping in the game. Hell, I didn't even realize that the characters couldn't jump. Why? because there is no-in game reason for the ability to jump. Im not gonna jump up and down in combat, like some  crappy FPS, and I'm not platform jumping like Mario.

Even without jumping or swimming the game was and still is the most immersive I've played, and the world felt real. I'm not sure how jumping ruins immersion for people. Immersion is about the way you feel about a games character, story, and world. Since there was no need for jumping in the game, maybe the lack of jumping bothered you because you weren't immersing yourself in the game, instead of the other way around. I mean, seriously. If you're walking and you come to an open field, are you going to walk across it, or jump across it. Or if everything was accesible to you from the ground, would you ever be mad if you couldn't jump? just something to think about.

Originally posted by Groucho

Originally posted by merv808

I think where games have gone wrong, is the emphasis on combat and levels.

But combat is the main attraction of MMORPGs for the vast majority of players, and always has been.

I agree. but as you said combat is the "main" attraction. Meaning it doesn't have to be the only one.

I didn't think I'd say this a couple of years ago, but forced grouping is the way to go.

I think the game that had it right was FFXI. Sure at times it was hard to find or keep a group, but I found plenty of things to do while I was LFG. That is, once I discovered and embraced the crafting aspect of the game. While waiting, I would go solo to kill orcs and farm the required crystals to craft in the various different professions the game offered.

I think where games have gone wrong, is the emphasis on combat and levels. Sure I want to get stronger and grow to become the great hero that vanquishes evil from the earth, but I also want to do other things. Even single player RPGs have figured this out. The great thing about SWG was that you could enjoy the game for hours and never kill a single thing. I understand that crafting isn't for everyone, but games could add optional short solo missions for killing time, mini-games, (i.e. FF with the card games or blitzball), whatever.

There doesn't have to be solo dungeons or bosses in a game, Just give us other stuff to do that is fun and worthwhile

Originally posted by natuxatu

Yeah people expect too much and frankly the reason people are complaining about everything here is because they're unhappy  and have unrealistic expecations on the next big MMO.

Buf for every person whinning here on the forums there are 100s that are completely happy and content logging into their MMO and having a good time. Those people rarely bother with forums like these.

QFT

My ranking here goes up and down because i only really post here when i'm between games. i.e. now.

I certainly like the idea of MMOs, as does everyone.

but its that first M that keeps games from being all they can be. Trying to appeal to millions of people over a long period of time is nearly impossible. Having sooo many people wandering around in a game all trying to accomplish the same things...eventually that gets boring for everyone. I prefer to feel like I'm accomplishing something regularly other than just the next character level.......

I'm actually more of a fan of Multi-player Online RPG's...with fewer players on a server and more big things to accomplish.

If the massive part is ever going to work then there has to be different goals and achievements and maybe even different endgame for different players. Maybe a Sky pirate game where there are gunners, mechanics, captains, pilots,  etc. and everyone plays different roles on different ships. OR a game ala Elder Scrolls where you join one of the many guilds/houses and follow a story arc according to the one you join. I think that would help keep interest and give games replay value

Originally posted by duran3d

Originally posted by merv808

The problem isnt the system(s) used. Its the players.

There is a happy medium, and its been used in many games. That medium is to have the classes, but have skills and abilities to choose from that aren't "required" and where they aren't any more or less powerful, just different.

The problem is, someone would come onto a thread and proclaim their's as the ultimate build, everyone else will follow suit, and over time that somehow becomes the standard of the class.

It doesn't really matter what devs do. The problem is that too many players don't build the character they want to build, they build the one they think they should. Because instead of making fun characters people would rather have the most powerful ones.

 

IMO It doesn't have to be like that. A well designed and balanced classless system, with the apropriate natural penalties, will ensure there's no "ultimate build" for every situation.

As starman999 said, in the original SWG most people just picked up the character they liked with whatever mix of skills they wanted and enjoyed the freedom of individuality.

Personally I would love a fine classless game with well planned natural penalties.

 

I completely agree. It doesn't have to be that way... and it definitely shouldn't be.

But even in games where there's not an "ultimate build" someone will act like theirs is and new players will always ask how they should build each of their own characters...(thats probably my biggest pet peeve in MMOs)

The point I'm making is, this: Even if a developer found a perfect classless system, the players would find some way to unbalance it. And too many similar toons running around is the fastest way to do it.

Originally posted by Hhussk

Originally posted by merv808

...Personally, I don't see how instancing ruins immersion for so many people. Actually I think in a lot of cases, instanced questing helps.

Imagine going on an epic quest to kill the dragon...you get there only to see another group kill it first, and you have to wait 20 minutes for it to respawn. Where is the immersion in that? For me, when I enter a dungeon on a mission, its about me and my team, anyway. Who cares what the rest of the world is doing.

 

But on the same note...persistance.

If you kill the dragon, why isn't he dead. Why can you keep coming back and kill him over and over again.

without instances, the dragon does keep coming back...and will come back and kill you if you don't get away fast enough. In an instanced quest, I kill the dragon, and I never see him again (as long as i don't repeat the quest)

Originally posted by Hhussk

Originally posted by mindw0rk

 Those with the best graphics of course. LoTRO/Vanguard/..

 

I completely disagree that graphics causes immersion. It's how the world and people interact that maintains the illusion.

 

Edit: Age of Conan, based on your statement, would be the best MMO, and I fundamentally disagree.

I agree. None of these games can top the immersion of a pen and paper games where everyone imagines the world around them.