Good Points again Daffid011,  tbh I was for the most part playing 'devils advocate.'  I enjoy the game and will most like continue to play through this summer atleast, or as long as I have time to be GM and keep my free acount.  This was a fun debate and I do see your point, naming wow still claims to have 11 million or account or so even after they lost like half that amount due to china baning the game.  I think this arguement can prove that facts maybe interupted to support two opinions, and in the case of you take on the articles, the lack of facts ex. your point about the mentioning of actually accounts.

Thanks for being civil

wasn't AB one of the server they upgraded to be a "super" server last year?  I will have to look through Feldon's site and find that article but a few of the server have been upgraded.  I am unsure if they all have been yet.

Its not unreasonable to assume EQ2 might have more players now then shortly after launch MMOs where not yet considered Mainstream entertainment.  300,000 around 2004 was a decent number.  WoW did not carry its sheer numbers for atleast a year or 2 after launch (both games launch same month).  Also with the right account permissions one can see current server population during the time i frequent,  300,000 is a norm for online players, mind you, this does include trials etc.

Bartillo, thanks.  Thats the way I remembered it.  Basically send me my invite after you actually have a little bit more game to test, thats my opinion.  Of course everything does need testing but I would like to be one of the later tests when they are testing a more completed product.

Originally posted by Liljna

Originally posted by ashfallen

 

 being a GM on one of the servers,  I can assure you, EQ2 has more then 300k players.

Server mergers happen now as a result of the newer technology. 

 

Of course you are :P

It's amazing how anybody can be anyone here on the internets and proclaim whatever they want. Truely amazing :)

One might often find when another cannot add to an arguement or rebut, personal attack is the last option.  It is not necessary to defend against slander; moreover, the attackers usually have no ground for said attacks.  While most in this forum have been civil this poster has not, thus It will simply be added to ignore.

I have WfC on PC it was a bit of a suprise.  I got more then i expected and would recommend it.

Originally posted by Burntvet

Originally posted by Nervaaz

 

For those who mock SOE and their integrity (and yes, there is a lot in the past to lend credence to this), I'm not sure they are deserving of our scorn where EQ2 is concerned.  There is no other game on the market that has seen as many improvements, upgrades and innovations added since launch as EQ2.  This is a radically better game then it was at launch, and continuously continues to improve.  Friends that I have invited over from WoW and other games are blown away by the polish and sophistication of it, and stay to become regular subscribers.  All it really needs now to put it over the top would be a complete revamp of the character animations.

I might be more inclined to think SOE had some integrity, if they actually did. They put station cash in EQ2 only a short time after saying they wouldn't. And in their other games.

And Smed as told more lies and misrepresented more facts / plans in regards to SOE games than I care to remember or list.

After Smedley goes, I might believe that SOE had some business integrity some time in the future, but at SOE, the stench starts at the top.

 SoE may never get over the NGE thing, so I do not foresee integrity being a word used in a discription of SoE.  Sony's E3 was such a load of crap I almost choked from the crap building up in the room

Originally posted by Daffid011

Wait, all you got from the first article about server mergers in EQ2 was that it was mainly about cleaning up place holder characters?  How could you possibly miss the portion where they talk about closing ten servers down.  The reason listed was zones were spreading out the population to much and reinvesting the hardware would help solve merging the same number of people into less servers?  I really have to return the question of what you are reading in these articles.

Granted I was snarky with dionysus as he was with me, but my points are still valid. 

EQ released with 35 servers and last press release was 310,000 players.  Now they are considering condensing down to less than 20 servers and you claim it will support the same amount of players?  Furthermore you claim that mergers are not always caused by popuation decrease, but have not supplied an example to support your claims.

 

I'm fine with being called a hater, but that doens't discredit the information I have presented or the lack of information you have given. 

 

 

 

 

 I will give you credit I did over state the use of placeholder characters(for arguement's sake of course).  That being said you listed the article as from 2004 is was 2006.  Your informantion is discrediting itself, mainly the first article which in it more so backs my point of view then that of your own.  I simply have not needed to present info as you have done quite a fine job of supporting my arguement for me.  There are not 35 servers now. You are reading into what I said, never did i say it would support the same amount of players.  About the mergers are not caused by server populations I simply stated as a possible cause.  I will conciede this point as I personally know of no time it has happened for reasons other then population.   That being said, I stand by the idea its possible.

Again your information is lacking as it support both views;however, I imagine it possible for both of us to get different opinions based on the same information.  You have yet been snarky with me, and that I respect. I have not tried to be snarky with you.  The post prior to this could be taken that way which was not my intention.  At the time you did sem to simply want to win an arguement im not entirely sure we are having.  Atleast that was not my intention. 

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Dionysus187

lol did you even read the article? they state right in the first paragraph merges are being considered because some servers are over populated causing technical problems. As someone who plays the game daily I can tell you this is 100% true.

People migrate to high population servers because they are high population servers. The amount of servers they have WOULD accomadate the amount of players they have properly but unfortunately players have taken it upon themselves to make it severely top heavy on a few select servers. Its actually 4 servers with technical problems due to over population, said players stacking on these servers leaves others with a low population. If there was some player agreeable way to evenly spread out players amongst the servers it would be fine, but players won;t be doing that willingly ever. So they merge the smaller servers that are wasting hardware and use them better on servers that are severely taxing that same amount of hardware.

Stop talking Daffid, you have no idea what you are talking about and are making a fool of yourself. We have proof of our claims, all you have is a general dislike of the company fueling conspiracy theories and you act like its some how more valid lol

Oh I read the article for this set of mergers and  the first set of mergers in 2004. [LINK]

Notice any similarities?  Closing servers, but population increasing.  Amazing isn't it? 

Good thing the last FIVE expansions have not caused the same illusion of less players in the game and require even more server mergers.  Must have been solved by another new technology.

 

Come on, you can't honestly sit here and believe that EQ2 is the only game in mmo history to "grow", but at the same time need to merge servers... twice.   Players don't spontaniously uproot from their servers and all migrate to a select few servers without good reason.   Just like they did in SWG, Conan, Warhammer, Vanguard and every other game that has had a declining population. 

Keep in mind soe can't even get the EQ2 engine to properly utilize video cards or multicore processors, but somehow they are going to get double the server performance from their engine over what other companies get?  If EQ2 had so many subscribers then some server upgrades would be a drop in the bucket compared to what server mergers do to communities and the image of a game.  Not to mention what doubling some servers populations would do to contested and openworld content.  Phff...

It might be a bitter pill to swallow, but companies merge servers when populations suffer. 

 I was almost convienced you would add to the conversation postively, until this post now it would appear you simply are adding more half supporting articles.  The bulk of that article was about cleaning up the servers of place holder toons.  I do not believe you are fulling reading the articles before you post them.  After this post, I believe its safe to say you are just another 'hater' and I can easily ignore your posts as they will add not true content to the conversation.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by ashfallen

 I have no desire of convicing you.  You have already made up your mind.  However there are no recent announcements suggesting any server mergers.  I was simply stating mergers are not always the result of lowered population.  You need not take my word for the population. 

Hey I am all for learning something new, so if you have information to show I'm mistaken then please share it.  I am unconvinced for several reason.  One being that I can't think of any mmos that have merged servers, as you put it, due to new technology.   While it sounds plausible, it has not been the reailty of why games merge servers. 

 

As for the issue of pending mergers for EQ2, read here. [LINK]

 

Players only migrate to "higher population" servers for one reason and it has nothing to do with technology. 

You are correct; however, your evidence is inconclusive at best.  I did read this earlier but I, personally, did not take it as an announcement of server mergers.  This article could be taken to support both our opinions.  I would also say I believe you are right when you said EQ2 is not the future of SoE.  I only recently returned to EQ2 and started GM duties again for this summer,  its a free MMO for the summer so why not?  I am not trying to defend SoE or EQ2 simply stating a few observations.

Edit for side note:  The link contained in Daffid011's post is to a site that does a very good job of keeping up with EQ2 info.

Originally posted by Philby

I think the idea that all companies are going the way of the Asian F2P model is being highly exaggerated.  Tubine and who else formally making P2P games have done this? Oh yea Mythic has an unending trial thing going.  DDO was DOA, LOTRO has been stagnant for a long time and Warhammer, well its Warhammer.  Quality games will get people to sub and the use of  sub money to create quality content will keep them subbing and attract new players. 

 Thats the general idea.  I, personally, have nothing against the hybrid model.  I do however realize others may and do.  I like the options EQ2 has for race/name/gender changes outside that I have no use; therefore, the market does not affect me.

Originally posted by plaxidia

Originally posted by ashfallen

Originally posted by Novusod

Originally posted by ashfallen

 I can find no mention of this Tomb of Erudin.

It is on their main game page as the third featured item.

I did find it later. Thanks for linking it thought.  Seems to be more like the LoN zone that was added a few expansion a while ago.  Still it does merrit mention.  ty 

 

Um typo?  Its Tome of Erudin  not Tomb of Erudin.. And its a cosmetic pet.. LOL  I checked it in game..  

 Thats correct,  Which is why i could not find a Tomb of Erudin.

Originally posted by Novusod

Originally posted by ashfallen

 I can find no mention of this Tomb of Erudin.

It is on their main game page as the third featured item.

I did find it later. Thanks for linking it thought.   Also this is a Tome of Erudin...and its a summon appearance PET and NOT a zone.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by ashfallen

 being a GM on one of the servers,  I can assure you, EQ2 has more then 300k players.

Server mergers happen now as a result of the newer technology. 

Yeah and the first big server EQ2 merger was because the expansion "spread people out to much" and it also wasn't the result of player decline.  Funny the last four expansions didn't require mergers also. 

Sorry friend if I am not convinced by your claims. 

Every other mmo on the market that is doing server mergers has done so as a result of declining player populations and not improved technology(tm).   Reading players talk about the condition of the servers is proof enough of why mergers are coming.

Reality or perception, server mergers are viewed as a very negative task for mmos and chase new players away.  No one wants to do mergers unless they are forced to.  Considering there is only 1 server with heavy population problems a server split would be the normal solution to large populations, not server consolidations.

 I have no desire of convicing you.  You have already made up your mind.  However there are no recent announcements suggesting any server mergers.  I was simply stating mergers are not always the result of lowered population.  You need not take my word for the population. 

Think its same as the bear mount for TSO and you can use it at first level and around lvl 20 it does become a mount.  At first its a "pet" graphic later it becomes a mount and as you level its appearance changes.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by liddokun

EQ2 is pretty profitable the way it is now. They have a pretty good number of subs (maybe around 200-300K range). Changing EQ2 to F2P is like kicking the wasp nest and will just piss off all the long time players since the EQ2 community is a very enclosed community (kinda like a town house where everyone knows pretty much everybody else and everyone has a reputation at stake). If they introduce F2P dynamics into the game and community it will definitely change the landscape of the game and people will not be happy about it.

EQ2 had 300,000 players around its release, but also had something like 30+ servers.

The game has 20 servers right now and the developers are getting ready for another round of server mergers.

No way EQ2 has anywhere close to 200-300k players. 

 

 

There are plenty of techincal reasons why soe will not go free to play route with EQ2, but the single biggest reason is they don't need another ugly situation that turns players against them.  Espeically right before they release 3 new gmaes later this year. 

 

Even so, EQ2 is not the future of the company and past its peak several years ago.  Soe is looking forward, not backward. 

 being a GM on one of the servers,  I can assure you, EQ2 has more then 300k players.

Server mergers happen now as a result of the newer technology. 

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Detect all the pointless whiners and ban them from the servers and all fansite forums forever.

 who would be left?

Originally posted by Shadewalker

Originally posted by ashfallen

Shut down the servers and allow for the genre to develop without "wow" clones?

 That would backfire as all developers would spot a gap in the market and rush out replacements.

 Your right of course, but its the thought that counts, no?

Originally posted by Novusod

He may say Eq2 is not going f2p but I think their actions speak louder than their words. Just in the last week they indroduced a new Cash shop dungeon called the Tomb of Erudin plus a whole bunch of other junk. Not to mention that LoN is now on its tenth expansion and they pushing that card game like crazy. Yeah Eq2 is not going free to play. What he really means is we are not going to let anyone play for free but we are still going to ram a cash shop down your throat. The writing is on the wall Eq2 will be on a LotRO type hybrid model in year or so which should be called the free to pay more model.

 I can find no mention of this Tomb of Erudin.

Originally posted by desiriel

 

Turn SANDBOX !!!

Everything else would follow suit....

 This is not unreasonable an option.

Doesn't the beta agreement also say that you cannot get into other levels of testing later on?  As in you get into alpha and later are not able to see closed beta etc.  I will have to go look that up, if so I hope my invite comes late in the beta process...

Shut down the servers and allow for the genre to develop without "wow" clones?