Pre-Tram UO, especially in the beginning w/o guildstones, was literally hands down the best mmo design ever. Mmorpgs if they are even going to compete with UO would definately be post-tram, the carebare land of crappy rule systems and the beginning of the end for a true moneys worth experience.

pre trammel was the REAL UO, you had to TRY to play, it made RISKS and REWARDS.

Trammel/Fel split was the end of the first and greatest graphical MMO.

End Of Story.

the OP should be a traveling cigarette salesman, thats the same type of shady attitude

Originally posted by Fishermage

 

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Originally posted by ummax

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Originally posted by Fishermage

 

 
 

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Originally posted by Moaky07
Um Fisher...
 
I take it you havent played NWN2 then?
 
Obsidion made a pretty dog gone good game. Great storyline etc. The MoTB expansion was one of the best I have played.
KOTOR2 was going great also until it was pushed out the door. They made a huge improvement over the original KOTOR(more class options/tradeskills/etc).
You are pointing fingers at a company unfairly methinks.
The guy, that was in charge of licensing at LA, had a reputation of making contracters push things out the door on launch date...even if they werent ready.
I wish I had a link to the interview with him that says as much.
Basically he states "they signed to have it done by such and such time...we expect them to meet it.".
And from playing MMOs you should know...sometimes things just arent ready for whatever reason.
But as always...the total blame goes to SOE. Yet the all too familiar story detailing the workings of LA go unheeded.
Fish...I expect that out of most the folks on these forums...not you bro. Open your eyes.

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What I am saying is the things people are bringing up are NOT proving their points -- but the statements we have from all parties involved shows that the NGE was SOE's fault and that LEC should never have trusted SOE.
 
Once again to bring up GOOD GAMES that the company makes proves nothing -- everyone bad does something good. I am merely poking holes in people who try and use what happened to KOTOR 2 as any evidence to what happened with SWG.
MY point is that all speculative, oustide evidence, all pattern of nehavior evidence cancels itself out, as I have shown, and all we are left with are the actual evidence WE HAVE -- which clearly shows that SOE is to blame for the NGE, and LA never should have let SOE do it.
That places most blame on SOE, or at least it should and would in any business relationship.
 

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How does it place the blame soley on SOE?   if LA has more control over their games then people say.   LA is capable of making a company push out poor quality products but has no ability to control anything else?   That makes no sense what so ever.
Open your eyes and realize that the blame has already occured for other products with the Star wars IP on it even if SWG was not even in the picture.     Bottom line facts are facts and there is not much to "argue' you just dont want to see it.  That's fine, but the fact of the matter is its true.    

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It doesn't place blame solely on SOE, and I haven't said that, if you had actually taken the time to read what i am writing. I am merely placing MOST blame on SOE, as all the evidence shows.

 

I can see your weak "pattern of behavior" evidence, but it is cancelled out by other "pattern of behavior evidence. This leaves us with the direct evidence which we DI have, all that clearly points to exactly what I am saying.

All the evidence you have shown is that SOE and Obsidian are capable of making false promises to LA, and Bioware was not. Both of those companies said they could do X by Date Y -- and could not deliver, Bioware was honest and when they couldn't do something, admitted it.

Then LEC went to someone who said they COULD do it, but that turned out not to be true. Those are the "facts" and what they show any reasonable person who doesn't want to defend the unreasonable.

Once agin, yes LEC made a mistake -- they SHOULD have trusted Bioware and NOT trusted Obsidian. Similarly, they shoul never have trusted SOE. they made a similar mistake in both cases.
 

you're telling this to the same people who complain about announcing changes instead of hiding them, these are the people that complain about anything and everything, everyone knows sony screwed up big time in this game, and they complain just as much about the not-yet-released games that Are announcing changes or mistakes

Everyone who liked the original SWG *much like the original UO in terms of change over the years* is probably hoping quietly or annoyingly, that bioware doesnt screw this one up.

end story is it doesnt matter how they get there, as long as the place they are going is what we will be happy with.

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

I read a post the other day that mentioned an interview with Smed.  Apparently the game was revamped  once entirely even before release, and the original game was developed in what appeared to be a very short time.  When asked about quality concerns, this post reported Smed saying that people would play the game even if it was full of bugs and incomplete because it's StarWars. 

I can't find the post that mentioned all of this.  Did he really say that?  Anyone got a link?

Ya that sounds like something anyone high up in any company would say, because it's true.

Where they went wrong was thinking the people complaining actually Wanted NGE, what they should've realized was the people complaining just wanted to be a jedi, charge them $10 to make 1 brand new character that automatically starts with the jedi profession accessible, I guarantee you if they did that instead of NGE and thinking because it's SWG anyone will play it in any quality/build, the population would've skyrocketed past 500k in a couple months and sony would've made a hell of a lot more money.

A fair review:

The world is highly populated on most servers, however the odds of you seeing that high population at any point in time are slim at best, mainly due to the auto instancing feature when a zone reaches it's max occupancy.

You can switch *when not in combat, standing at a rez point, and not after doing pvp* the instances in a zone, and when you are in a group and you enter a zone it automatically puts you into your groups instance, however if you are in seperate copies of the instance before you group up, you will have to either manually switch to their copy of the zone of just have every leave and come back in to be in the same copy

The dungeons are fun, the bosses are decent, and the group play style is tweaked to be different or is just already on it's own completely different (ie. healing)

The quests are most definately seperate from your run-of-the-mill mmo quests. Granted most of them do just want "10 of this" or "kill 10 of that" or "go find this person" except with the find a person you usually have to escort them back or have cleared a path for them already to escape through, and the find 10 or kill 10 quests, the story *and audio if it has it* explanation from the NPC is usually graphic, detailed, and disturbing or influencing, it either makes you feel disgusted and want to kill the bad guys, or it gives you the energetic desire to kill bad guys, rofl either way it definately immerses you into the quest more-so than pretty much every other MMO, now that doesnt say it Actually immerses you into the quest, the actions you perform are the same as other MMOs, but specifically regarding the story the npc's tell you and how they talk before and after you finish it, most definately without a doubt puts it higher on the immersion meter than like i said pretty much every other MMO

Most of the bugs are out, a lot of people didn't actually experience game-crashing bugs or desire-killing bugs, most people if they saw anything it was fog/shadow/treeleaf related bugs, or odd physics bugs, and the ones who did or do experience serious bugs you should know by now make their voice heard loud and clear

Most of the zones are just huge, and in my opinion filled properly with static structures/objects and NPCs, also pretty much every single zone you can walk anywhere except 170degree slopes, and contrary to the earlier reports *which i havent seen many of lately* from people claiming to have played the game, the zones are open and mostly fully explorable, able to walk on or get ontop of pretty much everywhere, Not path-based

Even with graphics down for a medium or lower end computer, the vegetation and huge views are in my opinion what seperates this MMO's graphics from vanguard's graphics, the vegetation is thicker, more believable, helps make the scene more complete, and is just all-around newer than vanguard's famous high-end graphic quality, there are a few people who say you can view farthur in vanguard than you can in AoC, however when I had everything max'd in vanguard including vegetation and view distance, i couldnt see most of the stuff *besides barebones/lowpoly trees* getting close to the max distance of my view, however in AoC it seems to be the same distance and the only reason i've seen the view cut off in AoC was due to the zone being so incredibly massive there was no way i would've even LET my computer try to render that far had the view-distance slider let me go farthur, not to mention like I said in a longer view, even medium range, the vegetation and higher quality trees are that point seperate AoC from vanguard, and vanguard already seperates itself from the other lower-quality mmos(WoW) or the pseudo-quality mmos(LoTR:O)

The guilds, their cities, and the eventual full-quality sieging (when they work out the kinks and fix the straight up problems) are definately the community in this game, and will be housing the majority of the pvp-essence without a doubt. Getting into a thriving guild is almost a necessity for a big dose of community in any MMO, regardless of how many people you can meet or how many groups you can find while solo in any MMO. It is the same for most MMO's and is no different in AoC, just their guild design goes farthur than a guild menu and guild chat with guild tags over your head, it takes shadowbane and daoc and rolls them into a big ball of guild fun

Groups are fairly easy to come by, for quests, random fun, and dungeons. I haven't raided PvE yet so I can't comment on that. The general build of the group and how it works is although a nice refreshing change from the standard 'point and click' whether a tank or a healer, but the odd running around, aoe, and no point and click, for tanks and healers (and some dps) was a bit baffling to me at first, but after properly skilling (talents) and learning the grooves of your class in a demanding group, it becomes just another easily learned system, also if you haven't noticed by now, the groups have the standard demand for important classes and dps classes, and the classes have the standard requirements to help the group as pretty much every MMO

The random pvp isn't depressing at all, and in my opinion doesn't affect anyones desire to play the game, every game has known pvp points, and untill enough people reach whatever level or have access to whatever location that the players (or devs in some cases) may specify as 'open pvp area' for random ganking, this game will have sparatic at best pvp across the board, so if you do play a pvp server just remember people are still leveling, not everybody has a level 80 decked out ready for pvp, and most everybody has no idea of non-majorcity areas to go specifically for pvp, yet. The penalty system is a very nice additive, gives both sides something to gain and lose, raises the ante so to speak, and gives it that extra rush, whether hoping you dont get jumped, running from a pk (or a group of pks) or being the pk yourself, when everyone has something to lose and something to gain, pvp becomes a thrill-ride of a world addition, and once the 10 out of im guessing every 1000 get tired of huffing and puffing and threatening to blow my house down, the other 90/1000 who also have a problem, will realize once again they are the minority and most players accept the game and either play or dont play, in this case they are playing (sub #s increasing)

There are still a few kids, or random child-moments for the adults, but for the most part that attitude is specific to the starting area of tortage and fades more and more the longer you play in the real game world

And like i said before, some of the ingame content is very.. mature to say the least, female upper-body nudity, quests talking about sexual assault, murder, stealing, (and in some cases on a mass level for all 3, or a mix of all 3) and the lack of 'carebear' ways of phrasing/speaking make for some believable quests or situations, hence the extra immersion level i mentioned early also. Also some npc's swear and talk smack just like players do.

I'm probably forgetting some areas of discussion, but for the most part the only thing i'm missing is the bad response which will probably start off with "ya you're forgetting" and in my head when i read that response i'll be thinking "(ya you're forgetting) that you're an idiot" about the guy replying lol, angry people are always the loudest, happy people are usually the more quiet (excluding telling friends about why you're so happy lol) and everyone inbetween just goes with the flow or gets out of the water and you won't hear about it from them either way.

The game is solid, a friend of mine cancelled his account so they can add in some more content for certain level ranges and fix some of the bugs, but still promotes the game as above the rest and being very solid and fun. I know more people playing than not playing, and maybe 1/10 or 1/5 of the people i know that bought it, have quit, so thats pretty good odds for a new MMO if i do say so myself

From a neutral standpoint, taking my likes and dislikes to the trashcan before i speak, I've played a lot of MMO's on opening day (or in aoc's case early access) and the ones i didnt play on opening day i played within the first year, and from a neutral honest position, these people freaking out and claiming to report funcom to the BBB, are in all fairness, completely crazy. Every MMO I played at the beginning or near the beginning, was missing claimed pre-launch content, every MMO still had it on their website that some major 'game buying' piece of content was in the game and actually wasnt, and in most cases those MMOs cut content during beta that turned a lot of people away or got them to cancel their preorders, find a 'day 3' real copy of most every MMO's official forums, and you'll see a lot of the same crap, why people decided now with aoc to go the extra mile i dont know, i can understand people are tired of being mislead, or having their personal 'game buying' desire-building content removed, will one day with a new MMO become the straw that broke the camel's back, but why aoc, aoc seems to be one of the higher quality launch MMOs out there in the history of MMO launches, and the amount (and type) of content they claimed to have had and removed, or just removed, or claimed but never had, is actually pretty small, or dare i say miniscule, when compared with the other MMOs.

i'm gonna say the same thing i told the last aoc complaint i saw

Get Over It

this stuff happens in mmos, it is just how it works, relax, get over it.

if it really bothers you, take a step back, ask yourself why you care, and go outside or get drunk with some friends.

Originally posted by Xxeon

Originally posted by Dameonk

Originally posted by winter 

Replies are in Green.  All of my info is based off of playing UO during the T2A era since this seems to be where DF is getting most of their ideas.

I doubt very much that there are 750,000 players that like to be griefed and ganked in a full loot MMO.

Griefing and Ganking should not be as big of a problem as you expect, especially if they are copying UO as much as they seem to be.  A newly created character could stand toe to toe with a veteran.  It came down to use of tactics, something that is lost on today's average MMO player.  If you were a brand new player and this was your first character you could AT LEAST run away from the fight.

Definenetly not casual players which will be the ones getting ganked from the hardcore players.

Again, you know nothing about this type of game.  This is not the normal level based type of MMO that has dominated the genre since EQ.

Also I doubt very much WoW, AoC, and WAR players will enjoy the full loot aspect.

Ya, except there's no epic gear.  Everything is able to be lost, so things do not have a lot of value (again, saying this based on UO).  In UO you could afford to fully reequip your character from less than an hour of adventuring with the best stuff in the game.  I'm not talking about grinding money.  You just played the game... you know.... had fun with friends... and at the end of the night you could have made enough to buy a weeks worth of GM crafted gear.

In DF for someone to win someone has to lose, generally those with the best skills and most play time will tend to dominate and those that can't put in the hours or aren't as good will get tired of being the constant underdog and go to another game.

Um... I think you have it reversed.  This type of game design caters more to the casual gamer then any of the so called "casual friendly" games.  The beauty of this type of design is that you don't have to spend hours and hours or months and months grinding, getting gear, gaining levels, gaining crafting.  You know, all the usual time sinks developers put in instead of gameplay.

In a game like DF (or UO) you could play for only a few hours a week and still be able to adventure with your friends that play 10 hours a day, and not feel like you're leeching.  Your own reflexes and ability to think about the battle allowed you to be victorious, even if you've only played 40 hours and you're up against someone that has played 300.

In this type of game, time played does not equal instant win.  Unlike every level based game out there.

I don't know anyone that says gee I'd like a game were I can let others kill me and loot me again and again for thier amusement!

And that's why the PvP system has accountability built into it, again, unlike every other current main stream MMO game.  Also, I have no sympathy for this type of comment, if you're dumb enough to keep going back to the same place that you've already died a bunch of times, that's your own fault.  Maybe you shouldn't keep going back there?

  I hope DF does come out because there should be a MMO out for every playstyle even it is for the griefers/gankers. I just don't think there are that many that live for that type of game. (or at least not for that type of game where they are the ones getting griefed and ganked.)

WoW is already there for the griefers/gankers.  DF would be a game for real PvPers.

 

Ok.  Before you reply, I am not a DF fanboy, but I can't stand when someone who knows absolutely nothing about this type of game design decides to put their foot in their mouth.

I personally don't think DF will ever see the light of day, and if it does, it will not be nearly as complete as the "developers" would lead us to believe.

and you would know this how?
 

I played UO from beginning to.. well.. the end, nevermind the fact its still going cause it ended a long time ago.

I agree with the guy replying in green, if you take the fact UO was skill based, maxed your health at 100 (100 strength) and anybody could wear any armor and use any weapon (even if their fighting skill for that weapon was low and they missed a lot) and if you take pre tram/fel and really look at it, the amount of pvp gameplay that was enhanced by just those factors alone, throwing in commercial money-making players with their 'businesses' of paying miners and guards etc etc, and the random hunting deer in the woods with a pk stalking you in the shadows, made the entire game a complete masterpiece.

It sounds like some of these people are so focused on how levels, health, and level-based equipment and damage, that they don't seem to understand how level a playing field is and how the non-pvp and pvp players alike accept it for what it is and choose to play or quit *and i didnt see any of them quitting, whether getting ganked or trying to gank and failing* when you are talking about 100% skill-based systems.

What killed UO was tram/fel, giving carebears their own highly populated version of the world in a fully safe 'no pvp' environment, and forcing the pvpers to camp the entry points into the fel half of the world, with fel being dead, no leaves on the trees, no Players anywhere ever besides other pks (less than 2% of the population if i think about it from my own eyes as fact) not to mention they didnt increase their subscriptions with tram/fel, they Lost some of their subscriptions with tram/fel, and the expansions just got worse and worse so it didnt really give them a content-based reason to come back

Skill-based games with level playing fields of PVP, whether set PVP, guild PVP, faction PVP, or just PK's and the general ganking mindset, are one of a kind and dont attract the pvp element any more than they attract the npc craft grind element, especially when theres plenty of skill-based npc fun to be had, or just skill-based non-pvp fun to be had.

If this game is what it says it is, and they somehow manage to up the engine (im guessing for the 4th time? or atleast 3rd time) to meet the newer graphic trends (even weaker ones like WoW) then this game will be one of a kind and a shining 'in your face with popularity' jewel.

EDIT::: UO's full looting, and no "tier 4" armor design or "legendary" weapon design, made full player looting a complaint of the past shortly after you got ganked for the first time, it gave crafters a market for armors and weapons to players, and it also got people to either recall directly to their destination and hope the other mob campers would defend them if a pk showed up in the dungeon or camping spot, and it got the non-fighting skills to stay in town and on the roads where they belong

there can be only one star wars mmo.

so in order for kotor to be released, swg must be closed down.

There is only one for more than just the obvious licensing reason, it is also because marketing 2 seperate star wars mmos will split the number of people interested in each right down the middle, better to just have everybody all over one at a time especially since it will make the active company much more involved and approving with the results. You can be sure if there is a contract part in the swg license that says X months from the end of the license the next license holder in line will be allowed to market their game, then ok you'll see kotor sometime in 2009 or however long into 2010 when swg is still online.

They just recently said ya it's a star wars game.

this is the bandwagon right? the one going to stupid town? cool, let me on.

lol, if you played swg in it's newborn and yet golden year, then complaining will forever be justified, if you didnt, then you'll never be seen as having a piece of ground to stand on by the self-proclaimed 'vets' but then again im sure it works vice versa

complain, dont complain, whine.. cheese?

this is so far beyond pointless, that it is pointNOTHING ....... that was almost as stupid as this thread

me and my buddies are playing all of our accounts while they're turned on for free till the end of the month, but other than that, since i played swg pre-WoW, I agree, it's done, the license is going to bioware in 2010, the only thing they can do to increase population at this stage is announce game-ending insanity, either 3 free months at the end of the game, half off the sub price, or a super content update and then a free month lol, either way, the final month being free would be cool, just because the world had a lot of first's for all mmos, and it had a lot of uniqueness, individuality due to a lot of it's mechanics, even tho maybe half of the notable mechanics are long gone or tweaked beyond recognition and then consumed into the new systems

edit: the licensed switched companies because the current holder isnt insane enough to put up money they wont make back, to secure said license for another term of X amount of years. Only one license, so once it is up, it's definately going to the next developer willing to try their hand at a star wars title, in this case, Bioware. It's nice to think the vets had anything to do with this, but really.. in an aquariam, yes the poo helps the eco system, but is it really as important as the pooing make it out to be? because thats really all the vets did after they quit swg, was crap all over everything, so yes, you did something, you gave somebody a job, cleaning up your crap, lol, we're all vets, and we'll all be playing the old republic when it comes out, and a year into it we're all going to fight over who is the longer standing player, which eventually will always end with "ya i was in alpha BAM" lol........ get over it. Is it worth being a walking poo machine, just to pretend to have some dignity about being a 'vet' ? hell, swg is the only game where i've seen more forums orangutan poo-throwing contests than AoC, and that is saying something!!!

I don't like how they go about determining at what point the bot becomes an illegal violation of the blizzard agreement.

Ban bots, sure, but to say it's illegal for me to load software while another software is currently loaded, on my personal computer, at home, is...........

"loading into memory" ... excuse me? dont you mean "accessed while playing" or "loaded while playing" or "executed while playing" ? why is just simply loading it into memory while the game is running, a violation?

For standard arguements that works fine, but for a Court to determine something like that, is going beyond boundaries that i guarantee you are not allowed by the people for the courts. Watch your step courts, you are walking on protected ground. I'll load whatever i want, whenever i want, however i want, on my personal computer, while any  program in the world that i so choose, is running simultaneously. Out of spite for an over-extended ruling, I will even Execute the bot while WoW is currently up and running on my computer.

Don't tell me what i can and cant have on my computer, especially when a bot doesnt break any U.S. laws. It is essentially an airsoft gun, it only becomes a problem when you shoot it at people, in this case the people are WoW. I can understand saying don't execute this bot while executing wow, because that would constitute aiming the airsoft at a person, and using the bots abilities to manipulate wow, would be like shooting a pellet at a person, in terms of law and court's range of law, but to tell me i cant even load the program into my memory while wow is installed/running, well... now you're putting words/actions into my mouth/hand, and telling me that i am Going to do things i might not have even thought of, well no i am not.

What says I'm going to use the bot? What says I'm not going to analyse it's code to determine something for my own reasons that Don't violate any blizzard agreement? What if I just coincidentally had WoW and the bot running, never used a bot in wow before, never will, and i am alt tabbed from wow examining the bot and checking it out, with no intention of using it, am i still breaking the LAW (once ruled by a court, it becomes court-mandated law) ? If you tell me face to face, that is breaking the law, I will guarantee that we will rise up, and put an end to this run-away train of rediculousness. We are in control, We don't see it as a guaranteed problem, We are very protective over our rights.

Ban my account blizzard, but don't go crying to the court systems. I guarantee you blizzard, your karma is at an all-time negative, so if you enjoy your 1990's diablo1 pc hacking, and your 2008 wow bot lawsuits, i suggest you end your company now, before we do it for you.

Originally posted by Jadar

Does anyone else find those numbers depressing? I mean, to play this game at max quality, at an acceptable framerate (60+ fps), means playing at 1680 resolution or lower or buying triple/quad graphics card setups. That is so over the top for an MMO. I guess there is a sort of future proofing to it, if the game has a future.

And what happens when they release the DX10 client? Will they release the DX10 client?

what are you talking about? when WoW came out, I couldnt run it on high game resolution with high game settings, and my computer was pretty good when WoW came out, and WoW is universally accepted as one of the weakest 3d mmo's graphically, probably ever.

The computer I can run a 4 year old low graphic quality game on high settings(WoW), can run a brand new cutting-edge high graphic quality game (AoC) on low/medium settings with the same framerates on both games.

If I find a computer that can run wow at 60+ fps on full max settings, I'm pretty sure it can run AoC at 60+ fps on medium, atleast that's the trend my comps showed. 4 year difference, insane quality difference.

I guess that leaves the bare-bones. This arguement ultimately comes down to whether or not an MMO and a SinglePlayer game should mix their 'advancement' areas (ie. singleplayer games push new graphics, mmo games push 'its good for an mmo' graphics) Personally I don't see a problem with an MMO going balls to the walls with graphics (and possibly lacking content) and vice versa for single player games making crappy graphics (and possibly having immense content.) It is obviously not common practice for an MMO to have insane graphics, and a single player game to be incredibly content detailed, but when almost everything else on the market is the same as the box next to it, it's nice to see somebody trying something new.

Oblivion was the first game to really ignite the next big push into a whole other level of graphic quality, when that game came out, my buddy went to fry's and dropped a bit under $2k on just a motherboard, chip, ram, and video card, already having next to the best in the rest if i remember right, came home to play oblivion on a now standard 22"-23" monitor, and was shocked to find that with the brand newest stuff, he couldnt run it on max over 20-30 in enclosed areas, and high at 50-75, that is if i remember right, lol take those frame rates are garbage filler, but you get my point. I guess even after saying that, it all goes back to the paragraph directly above.

--------------------

as to the main thread itself, I noticed at the highest resolution, the HD4870x2 had the best framerate, it's nice to see ATI planning ahead, even if I won't run at 2560xAnything resolution for a while.

Nvidia has some nice stuff *i have an nvidia card* but I have to say, between market cornering tactics of microsoft and nvidia in the '90s, I have a hard time Not comparing ATI to 3dfx, and it's because of that comparison that if I had to choose between ATI and Nvidia for a corporate takeover monopoly of domination, I would pick ATI to be king of the mountain.

from what i've seen on official sites during beta phases and other development stages, aoc and war are both doing the same thing

making claims, early on announcing updates like removing content or complete rebuild of some content, then announcing 'no wait this is back' then 'oh but.... this is gone' a month later rofl, i dont think war is doing anything different in terms of content and dev announcements *or promises if you are an idiot*

this whole thread seems retarded to me, if war is good then good, but to say all this stuff about aoc and the devs and the content and the 'promises' rofl, and to not say the same *so far, compare the 2 timelines* about war... that seems a little.. stupid.

2 bananas at 2 different times, the first banana slowly ages, shows it's brown spots, eventually you see a bug crawl out of it, eww... and thats only by month 2 of the bananas rotting life rofl, eventually it whithers lets pretend by month 3, then you come in with a 2nd banana, and following the same timeline it does the same things good and bad pretty and ugly, but you come to me and say "banana 1 was totally awful, all of this brown early on and then that nasty stuff crawled out after this much time, oh but banana 2 isnt the same, what? doing the same things at their same timeline times? huh? noooo... .. thats imaginary, look, banana 2 is all nasty and black now, while banana 1 is still turning brown" do you see my point? it's the same thing, just at 2 different times

i like aoc, i hope i like war, im no troll or fanboi, i enjoy games for games and as for all of my older posts, it was fun while it lasted but everything silly eventually becomes old, these 2 games are supposedly power houses, and so far the first one released seems to be just that, problems and issues, public outcry, .. whatever, it's doing better and growing, don't you hope for the same or better for war? why does aoc have to be so bad *especially when both dev teams are pulling (or have pulled) BS in the dev phase* lol, cant both games be good?

just remember, the ones you usually hear the most or the loudest are the ones with the biggest complaints, meanwhile the ones with smaller complaints or the ones with no complaints at all, generally *atleast historically lol* will keep quieter or more to themselves, it's standard "crazy activist 101" lol

i saw some people making some stupid points in the previous posts, so here it is

vanguard barely ran on a tiny percent of computers, and i dont mean in the world, i mean out of the ones that met the minimum reqs, only a tiny percent could play it without those noted cpu-related hardcore frameskips

aoc was boring and felt empty, oh no lol

war is apparently doing the same thing aoc did, so im guessing the trolls are having lots of fun finding new ways to defend their garbage since content just went out the window

vanguard is the worst, when war comes out i think it'll be aoc/war equally unfinished, but vanguard still sucked worse lol

like a ton of people said in the aoc forums, how many games are released with flaws, bugs, glitched, and missing content? all of them. The fanbois/trolls precious WAR is no different. Now 6 cities to 2, and dropping 4 classes *im guessing it wasnt as many as EQ2 to begin with* can't be a good thing, infact, I think it's fair to say that is a straight bad thing. However, games will be games, developers will make promises and break them, and players will still buy, play, complain, and quit games like clockwork.

If I were a WAR fan, I'd just hope they make the rest of the game incredibly amazing.

I think his point was more that these forums are a joke, the entire website. Theres no requirements to post anything, never will be, how can they, but it leaves us with all of the garbage, good or bad, regardless of how you take it, it's still garbage. It was enough for me to stop logging in but once a week lol. I don't even care about the contests anymore, this place burned me out on forums altogether. I don't really care who disagrees with my posts or what i think is a stupid thread, fact remains the last month or two, this place has become a breathing joke to me and thinking about logging in just doesnt feel anywhere close to good.

i agree with the op just in the title, the worst thing about AoC is infact, that is is quite boring.

However, I saw someone mention lotro and vanguard.. both of those games were a bit more boring to me than aoc was.

aoc was boring enough for me to take a nice little break and catch up on other boring things that i've been putting off

lotro and vanguard were boring enough for me to just quit completely

either way, aoc being boring isnt a good thing... even with people all around you and the ooc channel blowing up, it still feels quiet and lonely

buying groceries doesn't mean a grocery store is going to let you stand inside the building and talk bad in any way about their store, their products, or their staff. They will escort you outside with security, then you can join the rest of the world's crazies by standing on a sidewalk and talking trash. Or in other words, you will become the real-world equivilent to a forum poster.

everyone needs something to do. I guess the OP was bored.

Yes we can read the newspaper, yes most of us have traded stock, yes most of us are successful in our stock analysis, so it is fair to assume that yes most of us know why what when how regarding funcom's stocks.

Is there really a reason to be here doing this? no. That goes for everyone.