All Posts by ArcAngel3

I'm wondering how many vets returned to SWG because of some of the old features being restored (e.g. camps, entertainer buffs, pets, target lock, group content etc.).  I'm also wondering how many vets didn't go back because these changes simply aren't enough.  If the changes aren't enough, feel free to explain why not.

Originally posted by Darth_Pete

 

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

Originally posted by Domenicus

At least people around here confirms that the best aspect of NGE is that it doesnt delete any windows files... Indeed, it is the highest point of the game... But its not enough to make me play it...

O.k. before I go and download any free trials over the holidays, which game does that?? 0_o

I guess none, but it still is the best aspect of the NGE-SWG

 

lol ok, thanks Pete

Originally posted by Domenicus

At least people around here confirms that the best aspect of NGE is that it doesnt delete any windows files... Indeed, it is the highest point of the game... But its not enough to make me play it...

O.k. before I go and download any free trials over the holidays, which game does that?? 0_o

Originally posted by saay

To the original poster, FYI lots of vets have come back recently. And did it ever occur to anyone that people don't want to play an immensely buggy grind fest, geared towards hardcore players? Im not saying the enitre pre-cu or CU for that matter was terrible, infact i enjoyed it alot, but it had its faults and problems, as does NGE. Things change, the sooner people realize that about life, the sooner people will begin to enjoy themselves more.

I definitely agree that a lot of people don't want to play an immensely buggy grind-fest.  That's why players in beta and after release made so many recommendations regarding bug fixes and balances to make the game more functional and enjoyable.  I'm sure that's also why developers spent so much time on what's called the CURB--to address all the feedback they asked for and received regarding bugs and balance.

Then management apparently suddenly changed direction and the train abruptly left the tracks so to speak.  Instead of fixing the product they had--and people had already invested in--they began to change core game mechanics with the CU.

That didn't work evidently as subscriptions were still not hitting targets.  The trouble was that the CU was not asked for.  It was an unwelcome change--AND it in itself was immensely buggy.  So the original problem wasn't addressed, and bigger new problems were introduced.

Apparently SOE/LA didn't realize what they were doing wrong, so instead of correcting this flawed approach to their product, they continued down the same wrong path, but MUCH further with the NGE.

So, I agree, a buggy grindfest is undesireable.  I also think, however, that the solution SOE/LA chose to address that was extremely ineffective, making the situation now worse than it was to begin with.

I also agree with you that things change, and people need to adapt.  Sudden, dramatic, unexpected changes that appear to involve dishonesty, however, create large and lasting ripple effects.  Perhaps its time for people to acknowledge that as well, instead of trying to get everyone to dive deeply into denial.  The sooner the impact of something is acknowledged (not denied, covered up, spun etc.), the sooner people can find resolution and move on. 

Originally posted by Suvroc

 

Originally posted by musicmann

SWG is a shot MMO, plain and simple. When all  the people that still play the garbage and to those that still wish for classic servers realize that, it will be like a ton lifted off their shoulders. SWG is a dated game that does everything worse than 95% of all other MMO's on the market.

 

I do have to agree with you.

I think it's time for SWG to go and free up the licence for another developer to work on something that better captures the SW universe.

That's been my thinking lately as well.  It feels like someone though just won't stop milking a dead cow.  It's like it was torn apart, killed, and people keep trying to glue pieces back onto it so they can milk it some more.

After the NGE I really wondered if the service could recover from such a disaster.  I'm pretty much convinced at this point that it can't.

Originally posted by FikusOfAhazi

There is obviously another SW mmo in the works from someone. Bioware, SOE even. There wont be classics until swg shuts down and the emu is allowed to go "live" if you will, if they are allowed, though it seems they will be IMO.

 

Hi Arc!! Hows COX? Still playing? I gave that game a shot. Really fun if you got some friends. Kinda repetative around level 25+. Leveling up anyways. They also dont allow you to roleplay a proctologist gone mad called Dr. Stinkfinger. My buddy was dissappointed, he put alot of thought into that toons bio.

You still playing Lotr?  If so how are you liking it?

Originally posted by salvaje

Smed has until Noon Eastern time tomorrow to offer classic SWG or else the website of his nightmares will open...  Do it.  You will make MORE MONEY FOOL!

 

If SOE/LA decide that they want vets to play their game, and they decide to listen to what they're really asking for, well that's good I suppose, for those that would give SOE/LA yet another chance to communicate honestly and provide a good service.  I'd be too skeptical at this point.

For me, I think I'm going to continue having some online fun in my spare time where it's not stressful, and wait and see if another StarWars online experience becomes available some time in the future.

Oh, and I'll continue to pop in here and shoot the breeze with other vets like yourself :)  The SWG community was really great, and it's nice to keep in touch with folks that shared the experience.

Originally posted by Apache_

SoE has said from the very beginning that they 'Technically' can not do a roll back.   But they never say exactly what 'Technically' means.

My theory (and I get flamed for this all the time) is that 'Technically means that they simply can not.   As in they are not allowed.   I think that someone is not letting them have access to, or use of the CU/Pre-CU game system.

I often wonder if a game system can be actually owned.   It is and idea after all.  An invention if you will.   Ideas get patented and copy right all the time.  They become an Intellectual Property themselves with an actual owner(s).  These copy right ideas get sold or maybe.....leased?

Could it be that SoE never actually held ownership of the Pre-CU/CU game system and instead had some kind of limited lease to use it that ran its course and/or got cancelled?

Now, if we decide to go ahead and run with that idea, then things kind of start to make sense (atleast to me).  

 SoE has admitted that the NGE was thier idea.  But why such a drastic change? Could they have felt pushed into it?   Well, if they lost the right to use a Patented game system, then it would make sense that the New game system would have to be completely different to avoid copy right laws.

Maybe it is why they are slowly adding things from the old game system into the new one, and still try and keep it as different as possible from the old gaming system..

I could run all day with this speculation lol...But in the end thats all it is....Speculation.   Just something that I thought of to try and justify the situation.

Thanks for reading my totally unfounded conspiracy theory lol

P.S.  Try and keep the flames to a minimum....I have sensitive skin

I'm sure Smed would like to spell out exactly what LA's role was in the whole deal, but he can't.  I'm also fairly confident that some SOE folks would have loved to try classic servers, but they weren't allowed to.

I think we know some of the reasons behind these decisions, but it always seems like some of the reasons are withheld and/or hidden behind NDAs.  While this is understandable from a corporate and legal point of view, it doesn't really allow for the kind of honest communication strategy that builds trust.

Originally posted by BlackWatch

In SWG space... people can still hear you scream (unless they work for SOE, then they apparently can't hear anything).

Yes, people wanted dockable space stations and areas in space where they could essentially land and 'walk around' or 'do things'.  They asked for that years ago.  It's here, now... and almost nobody that was around back then is here for it. 

They put in new ships.  POB's require crews... good luck finding crews.  If everyone else wants a POB... who the heck is going to help them fly yours? 

If I wanted a new ship... I either have to craft it myself (hell no, I'm not taking up a crafting prof) OR I have to find a crafter to make the ship for me (few and far between). 

Collection quests in game... unless they really give you any kind of real loot reward (items used in combat and/or SUPERIOR trophies), then they are worthless. 

...

When SOE rolled the new stuff out that was going to require groups, they should've merged servers.  That way you would have a higher concentration of players on the server and a better chance to find groups.  To the people who play on the 'more populated servers'... I'm glad you can still find groups.  This isn't the case for the majority of players on other servers.

...

SOE continues to make 'small changes'.  They never make the one or two big steps that they need to make, though.  They never seem to really grasp the concept that they are simply spinning their wheels.  They need to do something that will make the game better... by a large margin.  The NGE wasn't it. 

 

Man I remember having to take turns running a turret back in the day.  There were too many players, and we had to work out a way to take turns.  That was a good problem to have.

About the group activities I hear about now: I remember some poor guy named Tuncher on the SOE boards pointing out over and over and over again how the NGE xp system penalized groups.  The more people in your group, the less xp you got.  And of course the NPC's were so easy that you didn't need anyone's help.  Man that guy asked for a fix for groups for ages and never got what he wanted.  So of course that's just one more reason so many people left the game post-nge.  Now that everyone's gone, I hear they've implemented content that requires groups.  I guess they didn't realize groups require people, and they lost them all by not listening to them waaay earlier.

Originally posted by fozzie22

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

After responding to some recent posts asking about the state of the game, asking what it would take to get people back etc..  I have to question the decision not to rollback or provide classic servers. 

Did I miss something recently? Did SOE lift their heads up from their X-boxes long enough to notice that SWG has been stagnant for 2 years?

Will you be told........the devs are still playing RE4 and they are still trying to work out how capcom got there aiming system to work!!:)

lol :)

Originally posted by Bane82

I don't know if I honestly would like to come back even if they did bring back pre CU. SWG is starting to show its age, and with all the MMO's coming out next year (hopefully Bioware will make an announcement) I don't know if I'd even want to. I'm too burned out from what SOE has done and how it has treated its veteran players.

Yeah, I think I'm with you there Bane.  I just don't know why SOE or LA thought that NGE plus old pieces of pre-cu would work.  It's like this:

Service provider number 1: Well we didn't get the numbers we wanted from the WoW crowd, I wonder what would bring vets back to the game?

Vets: pre-cu servers!

Service provider number 2: I dunno, maybe if you give them a few pieces of their old game back.  We could try camps, I don't know why we took those out in the first place.

Vets: we want pre-cu servers!

Service provider number 1: Yeah, yeah that's a good idea, let's try that and add back a few other pieces every so often too.

Vets: We're telling you we want pre-cu servers!

Service provider number 2: (two years later) Hey this isn't working, you know I got this crazy idea, what about pre-cu servers? (hypothetical)

Service provider 1: I think we told them we lost the code.

Service provider 2: Yeah, yeah we did, but they didn't buy it.

Service provider 1: Well then didn't we tell them we can't afford to run pre-cu servers?

Service provider 2:  Yeah, but I'm starting to think we can't afford NOT to.

Service provider 1: O.k. you know maybe we should try pre-cu servers.

Vets: meh, been way to long, with too much nonsense along the way, forget about it.

After responding to some recent posts asking about the state of the game, asking what it would take to get people back etc..  I have to question the decision not to rollback or provide classic servers. 

The reason I'm questioning that NOW is that SOE seems surprised that they've added some stuff from pre-nge and still the vets haven't come back to the game.

What I want to say to the decision makers is that vets by the thousands told you in 2005 they didn't want the NGE with bits and pieces of their old stuff thrown back in.  They said the same thing in 2006, and people are still saying in now. 

If you ask people what they want, and they tell you pre-cu servers,  when you don't listen, why are you surprised that they haven't come back?

Someone must have thought that adding back pre-cu bits to the NGE was a winning strategy.  The problem with that is the players you want back told you they didn't want that, and you didn't listen, again.

The more I think of the whole track record of this game, the more convinced I am that I'm just going to continue enjoying myself elsewhere until someone else comes out with a StarWars MMO.

Originally posted by BlackWatch

There is an issue with the concept of SOE offering a preCU form of the game.... they have waited too long to do it.

If SOE would've rolled out preCU servers long ago with a formal apology, then they would've saved some face.  Seriously. 

The fact that they have ignored the majority and decided to take their game in a wild direction, it just didn't pan out.  The fact that they have continued to ignore their players... that's the major issue here.  Every day that goes by that SOE doesn't release a statement of formal apology AND announce preCU servers... it's bad for them.  It just makes it worse.

...

SWG could've lived for a long time, due to the nature of the game and the sand-box style.  SOE just got very jealous and greedy.  They risked a lot and lost what corner of the MMORPG market they had. 

This fits into the lack of confidence I have in the management of the game.  It seems that at critical decision points, the management team has made exactly the wrong decisions, despite people screaming from all sides at them to hit the brakes.  Critical decisions include:

-releasing the combat upgrade instead of all the fixes and balances they had been working on to the the original system via the CURB,

-releasing the NGE period,

-releasing the NGE right after they released an expansion that could have had a positive impact on subs over the holiday season and had a movie tie-in--this destroyed the possible benefits of the expansion and its excellent timing,

-destroying the positive impact of the long awaited revamp to professions via the NGE--again horrible action, disastrous timing,

-when there was a huge public outcry for classic SWG, they missed the bus and kept running with the new formula (yes this is a classic coke analogy, that stuff tasted like bile and so does the NGE to those that developed a taste for the classic product.)

After this track record of disastrous decisions and missed windows of opportunity, I'd have to check my brain at the door to feel good about investing any time or energy into this entertainment service.  If I keep my brain with me, I can't resonably expect to be entertained.  I expect to be disappointed and frustrated, again.  I can get that for free anywhere I like, I don't need to pay for it in my spare time.

Originally posted by LordSic

Would it be better if he actually mentioned your character name in his appology?

 

Look im anti SOE and have a serious anger from the way SWG turned out but he appologised for the nge.... TBH i read it and thought too little too late... so he didnt mention the vets specifically but i think a reasonable person would deduct he was appologising to anyone the NGE impacted...heres the article for those that care.. This is the part of the interview that we are discussing i also linked the article if you choose to read it... but ill warn you its alot of boring with the exception of what i quoted here LOL

                                                    FROM SMEDLY INTERVIEW

((((That other lesson is the infamous "New Game Experience" the team put into Star Wars Galaxies in 2005. On that, he was completely frank.

"With the NGE, I'm sorry about the mistake we made," he told us. "We screwed up and didn't listen to the fans when we should have, and it's not a mistake we're going to make again."

The NGE completely altered Star Wars Galaxies, a game that had launched in cooperation with LucasArts over two years before. Classes disappeared and the game fundamentally changed in almost every way. It came as no surprise to observers that this change was massively unpopular among the playerbase)))

________________________________________________________________________________--

http://www.warcry.com/articles/view/interviews/2301-John-Smedley-Exclusive-Interview-with-the-SOE-CEO

 

 

First, regarding the apology:  There was an initial apology made by Brenlo on the SOE boards.  That's where he said SOE, not LA, was responsible for designing and implementing the NGE.  He took ownership of it, but then went on to apologize only for "communication" and "timing."  I and many others may have appreciated him taking ownership of the NGE, but I also thought SOE needed to apologize for a heck of a lot more than poor communication and timing. 

What I liked better about this round of apologies was that Smed admitted the NGE was a mistake.  That was missing from Brenlo's post, a very glaring omission in my view.  I also liked Smed's apology for not listening to his players.  What didn't they listen to?  Here's the short list:

-NGE is completely bug ridden on test, DO NOT RELEASE.

-NGE destroys years of progress and replaces the current game with another one, that's broken, see number 1.

-NGE renders features we just purchased in the new expansion useless and/or non-functional, it would be ethically wrong to release it and possibly illegal.

-You've destroyed the product/service we've subscribed to, please give us back the product that we paid for, and the one that was more functional; please restore via rollback or classic servers.

Like I said that's the short list.  All these things were communicated by thousands of players immediately before and immediately after the NGE, and SOE did not listen to a single one of them, not one.

So, for Smedley to apologize for the NGE "mistake" and for "not listening" to the players, really struck a chord for me.  It was a bloody long time coming for that apology (2 years?) but Smedley covered a lot more ground than Brenlo.

Still on apologies, LucasArts has remained silent on the whole NGE situation.  Their last press statement described SWG as a "success" and said that time had been good to the game.  The NGE issue was completely side-stepped.  As I understand it, even though SOE designed and implemented the NGE, LA had to approve it, and may have encouraged it.  To be honest, their current approach to the issue definitely stands in the way of me investing anything into this product/service again.  If LucasArts has any part in decision making regarding this game, and they are still in denial over the NGE and its impact, I frankly don't trust them not to do something insane again.  Also, as long as one of the parent companies attempts to deny the NGE" mistake" people are going to continue to try to break through that denial by posting about their bad experiences and people are going to continue to see SWG as a bad investment.  MMO's are all about building and progress.  If that can be wiped out overnight, many people just aren't going to come out to play.  LA's silence and denial just fuel ongoing posts about the NGE, and ongoing concerns about investing in the game.

If I play a StarWars MMO again (or any other MMO for that matter) I need to know it's being run by people that aren't going to pull the rug out from under me unexpectedly or knowlingly mislead me.  That's still missing for me re. SWG, unfortunately--largely now because of LA's approach to the situation.  It also needs to be fun and functional and have good customer support.  I've seen some progress in those areas, but what I see/hear about in SWG still falls short of the standards I experience in other games.

A final thought on the whole trust issue:  Smedley said he won't do it again regarding the NGE, I'm still waiting to see if he can keep his word.  We thought the Combat Upgrade was the first and last huge shake up we would experience.  After the CU and a long list of saying one thing and doing another, the NGE was the deathblow to what was left of player trust.  It's going to take a heck of a lot of consistent integrity and excellence to bring that trust back from the dead.  The things that are inhibiting a revival, I've already listed above.

Originally posted by Obraik

 

Originally posted by SioBabble

 

Originally posted by Obraik

The NGE didn't change the graphics engine, although Mustafar added 2 new graphics options around the same time, namely Heat Shimmer and Specular Terrain Lightning.  You could try turn these off if you have more lag then you remember.  Other then that, it's still the same engine.  You will want at least 1gb of RAM, with 2gb being optimal.

As for the rest of the NGE, it's mostly gone.  To me, the game now reminds me more of what the CU was in its later months then the original NGE.  Weaponsmith still needs some love as weapons are still the only crafted good that are mostly out done by loot/rewards.

Jedi stil instantly obtainable?  Check

Only nine "iconic" professions, that are actually you're locked into them classes?  Check

Levels are everything, and all but a handful of skills as you level are just augmentations?  Check

Futzed up UI that you have to manually modify to make tolerable?  Check

Loot based economy?  Check

Sounds like the NGE is still very much with us.

Your usual selective response I see ;)  There's a bit more to it then that.

 

• Combat speed is reduced from the original NGE speed.  It's still faster then pre-NGE though
• Combat stats have been (re)introduced with Glancing Blows, Critical Hits, dodge, parry, block, evasion, etc etc.
• The ability to revert back to auto-target and auto-fire rather then manually having to aim
• Damage being completely based on the weapon rather then the level.
• Introduction of profession Expertise to specialise and differentiate your character
• Beast Master as a replacement for Creature Handler
• NPC's that perform specials.
• Encouragement of group play
• Increased interdependancy

That will probably do for now.  Give me time and I could probably list a few more changes that have happened since the NGE went Live.

 

When I read Sio's comments and Obraik's together, I feel I'm getting a pretty good overall picture of the game today re. pros and cons.  We have a forum set up by our former SWG guild.  We all keep in touch and share adventures in various different MMOs now.  Mainly we play WoW, CoH and still SWG.  Comments posted on our forum line up with Sio and Obraik's observations. 

Hey Obraik, while you're on the thread.  How are they encouraging grouping these days?  Also, do you know of any plans to give weaponsmiths more of a useful role in the game again?

Shifting focus from bugs that made us cry to bugs that make us laugh (in hindsight).  Here's a poll of the ones that gave me a chuckle.  Feel free to vote for your personal fav ^_^.

Lol there's a bug in the bug poll.  I just proof-read it.  The item that says, "ships lauching without pilots" should read, "ships launching..." :P