Well given the choices.

Age of Wushu probably or *drum roll* Dark age of Camelot

Thats right I said it....

Originally posted by BadSpock

With RIFT going F2P in the US, I doubt they'd debut AA as B2P or P2P.

Really, really hard for any P2P to survive these days...

Are Aion and B&S F2P in SK?

On the contrary my friend...

Rift could of went F2P because they knew they were going to do a subscription model for AA... just a thought

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by legendair

Originally posted by Horusra

Originally posted by legendair

Originally posted by Horusra
yes where are those people willing to spend 200 million and expect nothing in return for that money.

Smart businesses never take out loans ;P

Smart businesses make money and thus are considered greedy.

No... Smart businesses make money without anyone knowing they are greedy... 

Smart people know smart businesses are greedy.

Smart people know the term "greedy" can be subjective.

Originally posted by Skooma2

Originally posted by General-Zod

Originally posted by Skooma2
Wow!  Hackers in a heavily weighted pvp game?   Heavens forfend!  (Any more questions as to why we carebears do not like pvp, open world or otherwise?)

I thought it was because you guys apply inaccurate stereotypes to PvP games thus creating a mental roadblock which causes carebares to take a disheartened approach to any & all things competitive

The best pvp  game I ever played was GW1.  There were so many types of pvp one didn't know where to start.  Do you know why I like that type of pvp, and not the open world pvp?  It's because in GW1 both sides had equal numbers of players, thus making for strategic pvp rather than open world ganking and naked runs.  I believe it's called arena pvp and it's only the gankers who hate it.  Compete on even ground???  Heavens forfend!

I understand your concern...

However your perspective takes a "victim-of-ganking" standpoint which is quite common among players like you. There is nothing wrong with arena style PvP other than the fact that it requires little skill and doesnt favor anybody that excels at PvP. Success in arena PvP solely relies on how well your team can preform their role due to the fact that everybody is more or less equal due to the class system that is common with arena PvP.

So yes, if you have only been exposed to arena style PvP I could see how one would be scared to death of being outnumbered, they never had to deal...

Originally posted by Nevulus
clan name or it didnt happen  :)

this.

Originally posted by Skooma2
Wow!  Hackers in a heavily weighted pvp game?   Heavens forfend!  (Any more questions as to why we carebears do not like pvp, open world or otherwise?)

I thought it was because you guys apply inaccurate stereotypes to PvP games thus creating a mental roadblock which causes carebares to take a disheartened approach to any & all things competitive

Originally posted by Tumblebutz

Vegan restaurant owner: "Hello, welcome to The Vegan Restaurant."

PvE poster: "Hello, I have no interest in eating here, but I thought I would offer my advice on how you could make meat eaters really happy!"

Vegan restaurant owner:  "We aren't concerned with making meat eaters happy.  We are concerned with making this the best Vegan restaurant we can."

Pve poster:  "Pffft... what, so my opinions don't matter?  That's pretty elitist of you, dude!  This restaurant sucks ass because you don't sell red meat!"

Vegan restaurant owner:  "I know a website where you'd feel right at home..."

Originally posted by Siris23

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Is there any proof that sandboxes are popular at all?

 

The only proof of sandboxes being popular is that every new game gets some people on mmorpg.com begging for it to become a sandbox, and the same people scoffing any game thats not a sandbox... 

 

But how popular are Sandboxes?  just wondering if someone ever somewhere did a decent poll about this?

You wrote sandboxes, not sandbox MMO's. The freedom of choice, even if it is just the option to ignore the main lineair quest (Skyrim) is quite popular. 

- Minecraft sold millions. This game on its own should say enough. It is not a MMO, but it is played on servers. Servers with loads of different themes (not all based on vanilla and/or pvp). Techbased (heavily modded to have machines and very smart automation), creative based (mainly building), adventure based (heavily modded), pvp based (hunger games), or any combination of that.  You cant' get more freedom in a game then with this one. You as player determine what features you want to have. As server admin you determine the rules and features. 

- Skyrim sold millions Can debate if this is a sandbox, but the game offers a lot of freedom for a rpg.

- The Sims franchise sold millions.

Anyway, sandbox MMO's have not been popular. One possible reason for this could be that the sandbox genre isn't popular enough. Another possible reason is that the sandbox MMO's untill now simply weren't good enough (which is my opinion).

I think that a good sandbox MMO is just very difficult to create. What doesn't help is that a lot of players assume that sandbox MMO = FFA PVP. FFA PVP is just another possible feature. It is not mandatory because I think that there are no specific requirements for a sandbox game.

Skyrim - no one around to kick over your sand castles

Sims - no one around to kick over your sand castles

Minecraft - choosing the right server minimizes the chances of someone kicking over your sand castles, or just play single player.

Sandbox MMO - not a matter of if, but when someone(s) will kick over your sand castle (probably right after you start building it is the most likely answer)

Skyrim isnt a sandbox

 

No.

You allready stated everything that MMO's have.  A pvp sandbox has

Ive stated what would be your Bread & Butter in any Sandbox PvE game, which you reiterated below

Exploration

Structure creation

Fighting A.I scripts

However adding the element of PvP doesnt add more features outside the PvP umbrella just adds more content. Now anybody that is creative enough could expand on the Bread & Butter listed above when creating a sandbox but without PvP you would be cutting yourself short. Once you have explored nearly all the game world and your guild completed constructing "the big castle", then what... on with the decorations? Now im using these examples rather loosely but im trying to make a point, adding pvp to a sandbox gives it more meaning....

A PVP sandbox has

Exploration / Territory control

Structure creation / Structure Conquest

Fighting A.I scripts / Other Players

 

"A Sandbox needs PvP or it will be all fluff and no grit...."

Dumbest True statement in regards to sandboxes without pvp.

So yes Are you confused?

There are several pve sandbox games out there allready, no none are very successfull but most have a great deal of depth to them (depth meaning meaningfull choices).

Let me ask you question... How meaningful is your choice if you have nothing to lose?

I also wasn't comparing a pve sandbox to a themepark, I only pointed out that it can have as many features.  So name a feature besides pvp and a pve can have it.

What this is all going to boil down to is... "what feature is important to you". Zod doesnt like fighting a bunch of scripts but some people love it. A developer could create a Sandbox PvE with just growing crops, fighting forest animals and building houses and im sure some lost soul out there would play it but as somebody in this thread said before sandboxes are already "niche"... you would cut alot of the player base by making it strictly PvE. You said yourself that SB pve MMO's arent successful and why would they be when most themeparks do the PvE aspect of the game better.

 

*Cyan print by Zod

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by General-Zod

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by General-Zod

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Shadowguy64
Would a sandbox work for a non-PVP centric crowd?

pve sandbox would work just fine. 

I can only imagine

A knight and full plate in his garden watering his flowers and harvesting petals to decorate his house with...  Mmmm the excitement

If thats all you can imagine doing in a pve game you need more experience and a greater imagination

Since you have an idea how much experience and imagination or lack thereof from my one post, why dont you help me out here, Ill start...

Exploration

Structure creation

Fighting A.I scripts

There, now your turn... what else is there to do?

Good for you.  Those are the big ones.  Yes all those things can, should and frequently are done in pve sandboxes.  Since you can imagine things other than a knight picking flowers, why did you state that in what was obviously a sarcastic post about pve sandboxes? 

Are you confused?

I'll add a big general one.  Every single thing you can do in every themepark MMO in the world can be done in a pve sandbox with the exception of open world pvp.

edit -with regards to what I can tell about you.  I can only tell what you write, so if you write a very limited answer to a pretty simple question it's logical to believe you are limited.

Otherwise you wouldn't have written such a pathetically stupid answer when you obviously knew there was more to do.

*Face Palm*

I was merely asking if you can think of anymore possible content a PvE sandbox could have. You didnt offer anything, plus you missed that I was comparing a PvE sandbox to a PvP sandbox NOT a PvE sandbox to a Themepark. My sarcasm in the post before was just pointing out the limits of a PvE sandbox. A Sandbox needs PvP or it will be all fluff and no grit....

and you had the nerve to ask if I was confused .. tsk tsk tsk

Originally posted by TheScavenger

As far as I know, the only two real MMOs that are sandbox and are heavily focused on PvE is Ryzom (but its dead and barely gets updated) and Runescape.

 

There is of course Ultima Online and Anarchy Online, but they are too archaic for me. And AO looks horrid. UO is still good to look at, but just so old. There is also Wurm and ATITD...but they aren't really MMOs to me. ATITD doesn't even have combat, its just crafting.

 

It seems every single sandbox MMO in development is an open world deathmatch full loot clone. Are there any at all that are heavily PvE focused that are coming out in the next year or two?

Why does it need to be a sandbox? Why not go with a themepark with similar  features?

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by General-Zod

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Shadowguy64
Would a sandbox work for a non-PVP centric crowd?

pve sandbox would work just fine. 

I can only imagine

A knight and full plate in his garden watering his flowers and harvesting petals to decorate his house with...  Mmmm the excitement

If thats all you can imagine doing in a pve game you need more experience and a greater imagination

Since you have an idea how much experience and imagination or lack thereof from my one post, why dont you help me out here, Ill start...

Exploration

Structure creation

Fighting A.I scripts

There, now your turn... what else is there to do?

I say good riddance...

Maybe now the game can be created by developers that are a little more imaginative...

(or funding)

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Shadowguy64
Would a sandbox work for a non-PVP centric crowd?

pve sandbox would work just fine. 

I can only imagine

A knight and full plate in his garden watering his flowers and harvesting petals to decorate his house with...  Mmmm the excitement

Originally posted by ElderRat

Originally posted by MegaD61
There won't be a trial for a while.  I suggest you get in and play this game. Its by far the best MMO out there right now and you will not get any other experiance like it.  I would pay 200 bucks to play darkfall.  I already see effing gold sellers trying to sell 10K gold for effing 40 bucks and I have heard house deeds going for up to $1000 US so you could make your money back playing the game if you wanna be like a china gold farmer.

was considering it until you mentioned goldfarmers. That is a no, thanks for the heads up.

 

Show me a popular game with no gold farmers...

We both know there are NONE... lets us stop, this ... this foolishness.

Originally posted by Badaboom

Originally posted by Toodles

Originally posted by Badaboom

Originally posted by Toodles
if a game in his age in the genre isn't offering a free trial, it's because it sucks.

I ask this because I don't know; what games have released a trial immediately at release?

This isn't a 'release' Darkfall has been out for years. 

AV would beg to differ.  Regardless of your opinion, AV is touting it as a new game.  So, once again, I would like to know what games offer a trial immediately after release?

We all know there are none... now you two behave

I dont really care about this game...

                but, I will watch the presentation ..

                            and probably sign up for any possible beta...