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All Posts by BeansnBread

All Posts by BeansnBread

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God damn. It's like Team Fortress on steroids.
Originally posted by Kaledren
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Scot
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Scot
 

If each year films were being made on smaller budgets with lower production values or books where getting smaller because people could not be bothered to read until the end; would you think that boded well? MMOs are a genre that are downsizing and have put up a permanent "Everything Must Go" sign, how can that be good?

The analogy is not appropriate because MMO is only a part (or even a small part) of gaming. In fact, the analogy should be made on drama film. It is not a mystery that all the money in hollywood is going to big ten pole super hero films, and the drama or even comedy genre are getting smaller.

How can that be good? It depends on whether you like super hero films. If the money is going one way ... it must mean that a lot of people are liking it.

Similarly, if MMOs is being downsized .. it can only mean that people want other types of games (MOBAs, instanced, online FPS .. or even single player games). So what is the problem if the gaming market is adjusting? It may be bad news for those who only like MMOs .. but certainly they can't be that big of a group, or else the market will adjust towards them.

 

I see this happening right across gaming, but it is most clearly seen in MMOs. Outside of MMOs there is the extremely obvious reuse of resources in franchises (yes I know its always happened, its the scale and in your face nature), the DLC that's released the day the game launches, switching off online services 6 months to a year down the line, the bugs which mean you can't play properly for the first week or two, the playability that bores you after less than a couple of weeks play, that they don't even expect you to bother to get to end game so have no end game to speak off, tiny world becoming a byword, need I go on?

They saw what new players would put up with, the likes of Farmville and Candy Crush and we are heading in the direction. You seem to think it stops here. We past the point where old school MMO players were getting pissed off over six or seven years ago, now solo gamers are asking where are the big releases. Where are the games they bought a new generation of consoles for?

Problem is guys, you don't need a PC or console to play dumbed down mini games and that's where we are heading.

 

What are you talking about?

There is a new CoD game being made. A new Hitman Game. A new Deus Ex game. A new Tomb Raider game. Even a new Rainbox Six game. Yes, there are tons of tablet games too .. but I don't see SP PC games dying down. In fact, given steam & indies, there are MORE development.

May be MMO is dying, but certainly not PC gaming.

 

IDK about that Nari. Although it doesn't prove it one way or another, it's a telling sign when back in the 90's and early 2000's you could walk into a Babbage's or Gamestop and browse an entire wall of PC games to choose from. Now you are lucky to get a small shelf of them in the center of the store or stashed away somewhere in as dark corner. Can mainly get them online, but it appears the popularity of PC gaming had dwindled somewhat and console gaming reigns supreme. Another reason I personally believe MMORPG'S have gone the route they have. Get a piece of that crowds cash potential.

You've got the facts backwards. PC is on the rise and consoles are likely on the decline. 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2014/04/28/as-global-pc-game-revenue-surpasses-consoles-how-long-should-console-makers-keep-fighting/

Right now, your wall at Babbage's is just Steam/Origin/whatever which not only has an incredible amount of single player games, but has an incredible amount of single player games releasing all the time. On top of offering the big titles from AAA developers, they also offer many indie games from smaller developers, something that wasn't as common in the 90's.

Yeah, the problem is that you are presenting a strawman and arguing against it.

 

"Who cares if the game is not great, or shoves monetization in your face, it's free!".

 

No one that I know has said that or would say that. I'm not saying it's never been said, but from my point of view at least, people tend to play games they think are good/fun/whatever no matter what the monetization model is. There are those out there that absolutely hate various methods of payment to the point that they choose not to participate in a game - and that includes the sub model.

Originally posted by Torval
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Malabooga
Originally posted by stevebombsquad
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by PAL-18

GW2 ?

Tank / threat mechanic is imaginary only to you it seems.

in chess we use it in many ways,we act like we are threatening someone and actualyl we are not because its part of the plan,we do it because that way we make opponent play as the way we want or atleast we hope so.

in MMO holy trinity we do same kind of things,lets say healer is in danger,therefore we sacrifice soldier to take aggro and kite him,therefore our healer can play the way we want to but opponent does not want to.

millions of possibilites,but obsolete in your GW2 because everybody is soldier.

 

I'd love to play chess against you. Seems to me you confuse chess and poker...

Acutally the "we make (sic) opponent play as we want" is kind of true. Chess all boils down to checks, captures, blocks and threats. By using these mechanics, you force your opponent into making moves that assist with your overall goal. I am not saying that chess is like the trinity, only that the one statement holds some truth.

You cannot force you opponent to play like you want it in chess, THATS the main difference between trinity and not trinity. THATS why trinity doesnt work in PvP. Thats why everyone will run pass the tank and proceed to kill the healer no matter how much yo want then not to. Along with non one dimensional pieces that can JUST block, JUST capture or JUST support because any piece can do any of those things at any time.

You obviously don't play chess or are not very good at it. I could take the time to explain it to you, but it is obvious that you have an agenda or perhaps you really can't grasp the concept. It is like when you make broad, generalized statements about raiding. It is quite obvious you never advanced beyond the PUG / LFR level.

You just proved his point. Maybe he's not very good at it, but he can make any move he wants anytime he wants. That's not forced taunting or even threat. You're confusing tactical back and forth with threat. In a trinity game the mob has no other choice but to attack the tank.

I would point out that it's never in the mobs best interest to attack the tank whereas in chess it is absolutely in the opponents best interest to try and tactically counter you.

Real simple: The chess opponent has choices, the taunted mob does not. That seems pretty clear to me.

It is really crazy how absolutely OPPOSITE chess is from the trinity. It's positively embarrassing to think otherwise. I am literally shocked by some of the people in this thread.

Originally posted by syltmacka

im curious how he can be so fast and flexible with 2 two hand swords on the back + crossbow..

anyways. seems like the growing beard feature was canned or something. shame i was looking forward to growing a beard on him.

I assume you have never played a Witcher game before. Witchers are superhuman in a few different ways.

Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by BeansnBread
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by BeansnBread

I can and do enjoy both types. I find his opinion of what makes a game deep laughable. It's a definition he invented for the word in order to suit his argument. If number of decisions made per second was the most important factor in determining depth, cookie clicker would be one of the deepest games ever.

I'm a designer, and another designer came to the exact same conclusion of what game depth meant years back ("A multiplayer game is deep if it is still strategically interesting to play after expert players have studied and practiced it for years, decades, or centuries.")  So the definition has floated around since 2002, and definitely wasn't invented for this argument.

Depth isn't measured in decisions/second, but it also requires some decisions being made with relative frequency. 

A definition has been around for centuries. Strangely enough, it has nothing to do with your definition.

The part in yellow doesn't necessarily pinpoint specifics but I think it has to be included in any conversation about depth.

I've always thought about depth vs breadth with the idea that "depth" might give innumerable possibilities that lead to many more possibilities from modest amount of choices whereas breadth is a large amount of possibilities presented up front but not really having much to link them with any of the other possibilities and not many places to go with them.

I think it's why chess or GO come up so often because there is an immense amount of depth from so few movies. It's how everything relates to each other and how those connections can have greater meaning beyond their initial consideration.

Any game where experts have studied and dissected and mapped all the components but still find things to talk about most likely has an immense amount of depth.

Yeah, I agree. I think you put it succinctly.

Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by BeansnBread

I can and do enjoy both types. I find his opinion of what makes a game deep laughable. It's a definition he invented for the word in order to suit his argument. If number of decisions made per second was the most important factor in determining depth, cookie clicker would be one of the deepest games ever.

I'm a designer, and another designer came to the exact same conclusion of what game depth meant years back ("A multiplayer game is deep if it is still strategically interesting to play after expert players have studied and practiced it for years, decades, or centuries.")  So the definition has floated around since 2002, and definitely wasn't invented for this argument.

Depth isn't measured in decisions/second, but it also requires some decisions being made with relative frequency. 

A definition has been around for centuries. Strangely enough, it has nothing to do with your definition.

Originally posted by Holophonist
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Mardukk

You have made the most nonsensical argument I've seen on these forums in months, congrats.

If 95% of your playtime is shallow (involving few decisions and almost no meaningful ones) then the game overall is shallow.  How is that nonsensical?  If you've played EVE you understand the huge chunks of its gameplay are devoid of decisions, and other parts involve decisions from a narrow handful of players, and other narrow chunks are a simple combat system, and then you're left with this tiny scrap of truly deep decisions.

Deep down all the EVE players understand this if they're not trying to pretend the game is different to support an argument. Or in some cases completely overvaluing that tiny scrap of deep decisions (largely due to its scarcity.)

A game's depth relies on how difficult the decisions are, but it also relies on how many decisions there are -- how much of your game time is spent making decisions which are deep vs. those which are shallow.  

Being part of a living virtual world sometimes means you're going to have to look for your content. You're trying to paint this picture that people who have played both types of games know that ow pvp games are shallow and games like WoW are more deep but I feel like it's COMPLETELY the opposite. To me it seems like the vast majority of people who have played both kinds of games simply cannot enjoy themeparks anymore because of how shallow they are. 

I can and do enjoy both types. I find his opinion of what makes a game deep laughable. It's a definition he invented for the word in order to suit his argument. If number of decisions made per second was the most important factor in determining depth, cookie clicker would be one of the deepest games ever.

You do realize that you're just short of 3 stars, right?
Originally posted by Maquiame
Originally posted by BeansnBread
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Maquiame

Yep, as someone who has been roleplaying in mmorpgs since EQ1 I totally agree with this. Today's shoebox mmorpg worlds are horrible compared to the mmorpgs of yesteryear. Hell even ArcheAge with its more traditionally designed old school mmorpg world with all its glorious nooks and crannies, real sized oceans, etc makes mmos like FFXIV:ARR look pathetic with its shoebox sized world that is pretty but nothing but a bunch of interconnected tunnels. Too bad Trion/XL can't fix the damn cheaters worth a damn otherwise I'd still be there. Real world sized mmorpgs like SWG, Vanguard, EQ and hell even Vanilla WoW completely spit on todays shoebox, invisible wall mmorpgs for roleplay. Who the fuck wants to keep to the samn damn tunnel city anymore for rp, to the same damn cafe? Where are the days where you could find some random off the beaten path village for rp anymore and find an actual community there? Or even better yet find an mmorpg  to play in where there are SEVERAL cities used for rp, not just one and not just the same three block radius in the middle of one.  The old school mmos had features that REWARDED rp and are nowadays nothing more than que for party dungeon grinds where you don't even have to leave the damn cities anymore to get to said dungeon. Where is the journey? Not in mmos I'll tell you that!

*Amaare Margolis, Treasure Hunter Extraordinaire ;-)

Historically in tabletop RPGs no DM worth playing with would force that sort of gameplay on players.  A DM would quickly run out of players willing to put up with them if they tried to force players to do everything in real-time (including the boring uneventful parts.)

So in tabletop role-playing you are effectively tunneling/teleporting between locations.  You're not experiencing every single second of that 1 month travel sequence. You're simply there at the next important location.

Any good entertainment (be it videogame or tabletop game or movie or book) skips to the interesting bits.  Anything that doesn't carry an experience forward holds it back.

So it's actually not problematic at all for a MMORPGs world to be created like FFXIV's when it comes to role-playing.  Role-players only need the setting.  The rest is up to them.  If you're choosing not to role-play somewhere it's not because that somewhere isn't suited to role-playing -- you can role-play wherever the hell you goddamn want -- it's because you have chosen not to role-play. 

You're completely correct about RP. Besides that, in general, these ideas about long travel times, mob camps, grinding, etc. that people hold onto as the end all be all of great MMORPG design not only don't mesh well with tradition table top RPG gaming, but it is the antithesis of it. While there are a  million and one styles of table top rpg gaming, these "old school" MMO mechanics were extremely far way from replicating the experience. I would never accept a DM that told us to keep looking at our watch to see when we could arrive. I would never accept a DM that set up a situation where I indefinitely killed an unending stream of goblins (and never be in any danger) in order to "gain xp."

Honestly, it's the LACK of support for an actual game that made role-play nearly a requirement to enjoy the older titles. This is the crux right here - the older games were so poor as actual games that they REQUIRED people to be able to RP to enjoy them fully.

1. Both of you are completely wrong and here is why

 

1. Were old school mmorpgs bad in many aspects - YES abso- damn lutely.

2. Did old school mmorpgs have more roleplaying aspects to their worlds? Yup! EQ1's questing system where quests were special and not a requirement, and when you did stumble upon one they took you around the world. EQ1's questing system (not the fed ex quests) took you around the world and were more akin to taking the ring to Mt. Doom in LOTR. You didn't HAVE to do them, they were not required at all.  Also the language and conversation systems - you had to actually carry on a CONVERSATION with npcs to even get a quest at all. Don't mention the thing that they may be interested in? You don't get the quest. Imagine if some new company expounded on this with today's tech?

3. Old school mmos allowed more flexibility in gameplay. How so? I leveled an Erudite Paladin just by roleplaying and fighting off "trains". I didn't do quests, I didn't party with anyone, I soloed the entire way while rping, I made up how I wanted to play. I honestly had NO idea that EQ was a group oriented mmo until years after I stopped playing! The world was dangerous enough that I could sit ther and say "Hey I want to be a hero, so I am going to save people from monsters when I see them in trouble." What's even better yet? Erudite Paladins were so rare that when people saw this black Paladin run up to save them while being totally in character it provided something that today's mmos don't have  - a competely random experience. One that did not require me having to roleplay with other roleplayers, but the fact that my roleplay which was mixed with playing the game my own way affected people who didn't.  "Oh wait there's that Erudite Paladin who goes around saving people. I just found this awesome sword that I don't need. Let me give it to him."  Nowadays its ALL about the gear grind, hell many new mmorpgs don't even put in rp servers anymore and the ones that do treat rp like its an afterthought. Player interaction matters little unless its getting together for PUGs. The fact that some kid playing the game for the first time can just say "Hey screw this, I'm going to level my own way, by roleplaying throughout and I'm still going to hit levels the entire ride" is simply non existent nowadays. There just is no incentive to this anymore. There is no incentive in the tunnel worlds to say "Screw this, I just want to go see that mountain today!"  There is no sense of ADVENTURE anymore, EVERYTHING is about the level grind and getting some damn achievement to show off to some other peon.  Or getting some new gear from the latest raid to show off that will not matter in six months because the next set of gear grind raids have just dropped.

New school gamers always complain about old school mmos being like a job. As if gear/level grinding is not a job!!?. MMO's have NEVER been about BEATING the game. There were no such thing as content locusts back in the old days because that's not what you were there for!  In the old days you didn't care about rushing to Endgame, WTF is Endgame, how can a VIRTUAL WORLD have an Endgame? Isn't that an Oxymoron? Roleplaying in an mmo is not like roleplaying in a pen and paper game, because you have the entire world in an mmo at your disposal and its up to YOU on how you spend your time. Like the old saying "The WORLD IS YOUR OYSTER!".  Pen and Paper games don't allow that kind of flexibility because you are being railroaded into the DM's story! Modern themeparks are nothing but being railroaded into the DM's story. Old mmos were "So hey where do YOU want to go today, what do YOU want to see? Go do it, and enjoy the journey itself!" Hell its why despite the technical issues many new school players had no idea what to do in a large sprawling world like Archeage - because they are used to having their hands held like they are a bunch of four year olds!

 

When your world is about rushing to Endgame to become nothing but a donkey chasing a carrot, you are not playing an mmorpg anymore, you are now the hamster in the maze. That is not an mmo, that is a platformer!

People still RP all the time in new MMORPGs. I know because I am occasionally part of it. Your entire rant is simply invalid because people RP in large numbers in newer MMORPGs. There are a ton of people that enjoy just being in a great setting and knowing the lore and being in each others company. 

 

I agree with you though, those old school games don't follow PnP at all. I mean, that is exactly what I said and I'm glad you agree with me. They are literally almost the opposite of PnP games and newer versions of MMORPGs actually share more in common with them, by far, than older MMORPGs.

 

Your idea about level grind and how today's games are MORE about that than yesteryears? Completely ridiculous. EQ1 is the epitome of a level grind. That you would mention the level grind as a contrast in favor of old school games gives me chills down my spine. EQ1 is the epitome of a level grind.

 

I'll address one more thing. Endgame. Endgame is infinite. THE END OF A GAME is not. They are obviously different. 

Originally posted by Tamanous
Originally posted by Netspook
Originally posted by patient32

The veterans are fed up with the same old, same old and are longing for something new and interesting and truly next gen.

It's actually the complete opposite.

They always whine about the "good old days", next-gen is what they do NOT long for.

I sense this is your bid at humor but it must be based on an element of fact. You are completely wrong.  It as been repeated far too many times that the "style" of game is what mmo vets want firmly build of next-gen tech and advanced design. 

 

Making things up is a sign of bitterness. Keep your chin up Buckwheat.

No, he is completely correct. All we get is pleas for old school design from "verterans." New concepts are constantly coming out and all they can do is complain about how it doesn't match their preconceived notions about what an MMO is "supposed" to be.

Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Maquiame

Yep, as someone who has been roleplaying in mmorpgs since EQ1 I totally agree with this. Today's shoebox mmorpg worlds are horrible compared to the mmorpgs of yesteryear. Hell even ArcheAge with its more traditionally designed old school mmorpg world with all its glorious nooks and crannies, real sized oceans, etc makes mmos like FFXIV:ARR look pathetic with its shoebox sized world that is pretty but nothing but a bunch of interconnected tunnels. Too bad Trion/XL can't fix the damn cheaters worth a damn otherwise I'd still be there. Real world sized mmorpgs like SWG, Vanguard, EQ and hell even Vanilla WoW completely spit on todays shoebox, invisible wall mmorpgs for roleplay. Who the fuck wants to keep to the samn damn tunnel city anymore for rp, to the same damn cafe? Where are the days where you could find some random off the beaten path village for rp anymore and find an actual community there? Or even better yet find an mmorpg  to play in where there are SEVERAL cities used for rp, not just one and not just the same three block radius in the middle of one.  The old school mmos had features that REWARDED rp and are nowadays nothing more than que for party dungeon grinds where you don't even have to leave the damn cities anymore to get to said dungeon. Where is the journey? Not in mmos I'll tell you that!

*Amaare Margolis, Treasure Hunter Extraordinaire ;-)

Historically in tabletop RPGs no DM worth playing with would force that sort of gameplay on players.  A DM would quickly run out of players willing to put up with them if they tried to force players to do everything in real-time (including the boring uneventful parts.)

So in tabletop role-playing you are effectively tunneling/teleporting between locations.  You're not experiencing every single second of that 1 month travel sequence. You're simply there at the next important location.

Any good entertainment (be it videogame or tabletop game or movie or book) skips to the interesting bits.  Anything that doesn't carry an experience forward holds it back.

So it's actually not problematic at all for a MMORPGs world to be created like FFXIV's when it comes to role-playing.  Role-players only need the setting.  The rest is up to them.  If you're choosing not to role-play somewhere it's not because that somewhere isn't suited to role-playing -- you can role-play wherever the hell you goddamn want -- it's because you have chosen not to role-play. 

You're completely correct about RP. Besides that, in general, these ideas about long travel times, mob camps, grinding, etc. that people hold onto as the end all be all of great MMORPG design not only don't mesh well with tradition table top RPG gaming, but it is the antithesis of it. While there are a  million and one styles of table top rpg gaming, these "old school" MMO mechanics were extremely far way from replicating the experience. I would never accept a DM that told us to keep looking at our watch to see when we could arrive. I would never accept a DM that set up a situation where I indefinitely killed an unending stream of goblins (and never be in any danger) in order to "gain xp."

Honestly, it's the LACK of support for an actual game that made role-play nearly a requirement to enjoy the older titles. This is the crux right here - the older games were so poor as actual games that they REQUIRED people to be able to RP to enjoy them fully.

Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by BeansnBread
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Mikeha

Played at launch for the trial month and took a Scholor to mid 40's. Tried it again about a month ago and only lasted a couple days. Game is still the same as it was at launch.  I will never be able to play games like this where all you do is just go around by your self doing fed ex quest with no type of player interaction. I honestly don't even see a difference in these types of games anymore. Playing this is just like playing WoW, Rift, SWTOR, LOTR and Wildstar. I know first hand that everything is not for everybody so I am still glad to see when somebody finds a home.

Then you dont know the game seriously.  They force you to group.  You have to group to do the first 3 instances as apart of your story line or guess what.  Thats right you do not move forward.  So this game Unlike WOW, RIFT, SWTOR, LOTR, and Wildstar pushes you too group.  None of these games you said push you to group its completely optional.  If you played the game to 40 and did the story line you would know.  I have made more friends in FFXIV in the last 5 months than I did in the last 5 years in WOW.  Thats how bad WOW got and why FFXIV pushes grouping.  Your problem is you are not seeking friends because I tell you the truth if you want some they are there.  You can always join me.  Right now I got friends that schedule runs with me because my limited time to play without my 2 little ones up.  However I do make things like tonight my friend asked me last night to set some time aside tonight for his first instance run.  I did.  We had a good time.  Friends are there you just need to extend your hand and find them.  

I made way more friends in WoW than I did in FFXIV. Actually, it was my friends form WoW and EVE that gave the game a shot. Because, you know, we are nerds. FFXIV doesn't push grouping any more than WoW. And if you aren't grouping in EVE, then - fuck you die. This fantasy you are attempting to perpetuate about how these other games don't encourage grouping is plain naive. While Final Fantasy XIV encourages grouping, so does like... every other MMORPG in existence.

 

This guy was actually being overall positive with his critique. He was saying that he found the grouping system and the actual grouping reality not that different from other games. And he is completely correct - at least in my opinion. It is so shockingly similar in that specific respect as to be almost indistinguishable.

 

Look, you like this game. I personally think you support it because it is one of the last bastions of P2P. That you would pretend like it was extremely different than WoW in terms of gameplay makes me realize that you aren't being honest. And why not? The game is solid no matter how similar it is to something else that is popular.

First off lets get this out of the way.  In WOW does any of the quest anymore for the main storyline say hey you need to go do this instance to progress?  NO I didnt think so.  Yes it DID in Vanilla when you wanted to do Onyx or MC.  Today the quest for the instances are IN the instance and WOW has become nothing more than playing a Lobby based game.  

SWTOR same thing none of the quest lines send you to an instance or known in SWTOR a Flash Point.  Sorry wrong again 

FFXIV If you do not group to do Sat, Tam or Cooper you dont process your storyline and guess what no story line no expansion.  So if you DO NOT progress your Storyline Your SOL.  It FORCES you to group.  It does not force you to make friends however it pushes grouping.  Not as bad as FFXI or even UO did because you would do Corpse runs all night long but in todays MMO world FFXIV does more than any other MMO sorry you lost that.

Yes he has a point game play is no different than any other MMO.  However what does FFXIV have over any other MMO.  Thats right more end game instances, Tougher raids, More stuff for casual players who do not want to raid to do like treasure hunting, housing, Rank Hunts.  So if players DO NOT WANT TO RAID OR DIE they can do that here.  Crafting gear will be better for them if they dont want to run instances but if they want to do both they can.  If they want to do rank hunts for tokens they can, if they want to do t hunts for them they can.  What does WOW Got?  O thats right LFR.  Screw LFR it sould never have been implemented NEVER.  LFD also both are a pile of shit that caused the single player push in MMOs.  

 

Yea I will defend this P2P game because I refuse to play any P2W games and sorry all F2P games are P2W however you slice it.  If a person can spend more money for any advancement in any way its winning plain an simple.  If FFXIV goes F2P I am done with MMOs.  I hate to say it but F2P has driven most of my friends way from MMOs.

 

O and Another thing I made more friends in the first 4 years Vanilla WOW and TBC than my entire MMO time.  However since WOTLK I have maybe made a dozen at best.  I already made 30+ new friends with my FC and using the Party Finder in FFXIV, plus some on the Facebook forums who in the end joined the FC.  

The only thing I don't want to happen at this point is that I don't want you to mention that you have three kids. And a wife. I know perfectly well that you have responsibilities and whatnot from paying attention to these forums. 

 

I'm happy for you that you made new MMO friends in a new game. You really have to realize that this happens to everyone all the time. I mean, people that are playing WoW right now are creating friends. That you think there is some kind of a difference between the two games is... I don't know... scary? Just relax a bit and think about it. Do you think people make more or less friends in WoW compared to FFXIV? I'm just not sure why, with your specific predilection with P2P, that you would be so against a game that has represented the model so well.

Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Mikeha

Played at launch for the trial month and took a Scholor to mid 40's. Tried it again about a month ago and only lasted a couple days. Game is still the same as it was at launch.  I will never be able to play games like this where all you do is just go around by your self doing fed ex quest with no type of player interaction. I honestly don't even see a difference in these types of games anymore. Playing this is just like playing WoW, Rift, SWTOR, LOTR and Wildstar. I know first hand that everything is not for everybody so I am still glad to see when somebody finds a home.

Then you dont know the game seriously.  They force you to group.  You have to group to do the first 3 instances as apart of your story line or guess what.  Thats right you do not move forward.  So this game Unlike WOW, RIFT, SWTOR, LOTR, and Wildstar pushes you too group.  None of these games you said push you to group its completely optional.  If you played the game to 40 and did the story line you would know.  I have made more friends in FFXIV in the last 5 months than I did in the last 5 years in WOW.  Thats how bad WOW got and why FFXIV pushes grouping.  Your problem is you are not seeking friends because I tell you the truth if you want some they are there.  You can always join me.  Right now I got friends that schedule runs with me because my limited time to play without my 2 little ones up.  However I do make things like tonight my friend asked me last night to set some time aside tonight for his first instance run.  I did.  We had a good time.  Friends are there you just need to extend your hand and find them.  

I made way more friends in WoW than I did in FFXIV. Actually, it was my friends form WoW and EVE that gave the game a shot. Because, you know, we are nerds. FFXIV doesn't push grouping any more than WoW. And if you aren't grouping in EVE, then - fuck you die. This fantasy you are attempting to perpetuate about how these other games don't encourage grouping is plain naive. While Final Fantasy XIV encourages grouping, so does like... every other MMORPG in existence.

 

This guy was actually being overall positive with his critique. He was saying that he found the grouping system and the actual grouping reality not that different from other games. And he is completely correct - at least in my opinion. It is so shockingly similar in that specific respect as to be almost indistinguishable.

 

Look, you like this game. I personally think you support it because it is one of the last bastions of P2P. That you would pretend like it was extremely different than WoW in terms of gameplay makes me realize that you aren't being honest. And why not? The game is solid no matter how similar it is to something else that is popular.

Originally posted by Foomerang

Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by BeansnBread

Originally posted by Amjoco

Originally posted by danwest58

Originally posted by Amjoco I'm happy you found a home OP. Personally if I leave something for 8 months and come back to it I don't settle back in. WoW was my only permanent game for a long time and I routinely go back there for a few weeks. Good luck to you in FFXIV:ARR and the FATEs, it was the big reason I didn't stay. /salute!
Why did you not say because of the fates?  If thats all you do to level hell yea they get boring but if you have a group of friends that a few times a week you did instances and some times you go back to fate.  Hell you even get EXP off T hunts when you are level 40+.  Mix it up.  
Well I said it because I didn't like them. They ruined the immersiveness of what could have been a great game for me. It felt as if the developers didn't want to finish creating content through quests, so they developed this system.  The rest of the game was beautiful, it just did't feel like a new home for me.
I completely agree with you. The fate grinding blew my mind. What was worse is that there were comments coming from Yoshida that were expressing that they liked the current implementation and because they were seeing so many people doing them, they felt like the people liked them. At this time, dungeons were giving completely awful xp. The problem with their comments, at least for me personally, was that I wasn't doing them because they liked them, but because they were, by far, the easiest way to gain xp for not only your first profession, but especially every profession after that. Since quests could only be done once, this made fates EXTREMELY important unless you wanted to spend months to get your job.   I did read later on that they fixed that particular issue. They dramatically increased dungeon xp for sure. But after those initial design flubs (imo), I just never wanted to go back. I'm really too busy with life and my actual favorite game of all time anyway, so it wasn't too hard to move on. But, in the end, I at least completely agree with you about that specific thing.
Ya, and like I said, to me it just ruined the immersiveness of it all. I felt like a cow be herded from one to the other just to grab xp. All the effort they put into setting up the such a beautiful world, npcs, and environment so you feel like your part of it, but they didn't finish imho. It's like it was 85% finished and they ran out of funds so they made FATE. It ruined it for "me".

I remember grinding fates. Seems like ages ago. Shame people got hung up on that and left. It's literally not even 1% of the content this game offers. That's OK though. Game is not for everyone.

See... at least you admit somewhat that there was a weird thing going on back then. That's why I like you. Even though I often disagree with you (privately), you are at least honest. Because this is something that has (according to sources) been fixed, but you acknowledge that, whether or not you were affected by it in a negative way, it existed and was a thing. 

 

Still... 2.5 second globals? REALLY?

Originally posted by Bladestrom
It's shallow because everything is about rotations and how to optimise them. Other More modern mmorpg have moved well away from this and the balance/épeen meter/spell rotation cycle and making sure you spam spam spam skills smoothly hour after hour after hour to get high percent uptime.

When claiming that modern MMOs have moved away from rotations, I find it only polite to at least mention 1 of them.

Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard

Coding software is my job, been doing that the best part of the last 25 years and as a hobby before since I was 12, and what you say is complete bullshit. You try to sound like some "pro" even though you know nothing and are just stupidly repeating parts of something that was said more intelligently on some other website.

Don't confuse what you think is the way to do things and how things are really done by professionals. Maybe read a book about AI, or even web sites, because there's much more than just random or table.

If you claim to do computer programing, remind me to never hire you.. You only have two choices in code.. something that is a random result such as a lottery number being drawn, or a scripted result in which the outcome is a result of a predictable formulated code..  PERIOD.. If you are such the expert why don't you tell us your secret to threat/agro system.. LOL  This we would love to read.. 

No... just no. Your idea that there are only two option - completely random or completely scripted is ridiculous. Just let this one go.

This is a strange game for me. Do I think it's amazing and has incredible potential? YES. A thousand times YES.

 

Do I think that someone should buy it? No, probably not yet.

 

It works and it is high quality, but in my opinion at least, it needs to be fleshed out more. And it is being fleshed out more at a decent rate and they have planned DLC that sounds promising. But in my opinion at least, it needs to bake a little longer.

Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by danwest58
Originally posted by Amjoco

I'm happy you found a home OP. Personally if I leave something for 8 months and come back to it I don't settle back in. WoW was my only permanent game for a long time and I routinely go back there for a few weeks.

Good luck to you in FFXIV:ARR and the FATEs, it was the big reason I didn't stay. /salute!

Why did you not say because of the fates?  If thats all you do to level hell yea they get boring but if you have a group of friends that a few times a week you did instances and some times you go back to fate.  Hell you even get EXP off T hunts when you are level 40+.  Mix it up.  

Well I said it because I didn't like them. They ruined the immersiveness of what could have been a great game for me. It felt as if the developers didn't want to finish creating content through quests, so they developed this system.  The rest of the game was beautiful, it just did't feel like a new home for me.

I completely agree with you. The fate grinding blew my mind. What was worse is that there were comments coming from Yoshida that were expressing that they liked the current implementation and because they were seeing so many people doing them, they felt like the people liked them. At this time, dungeons were giving completely awful xp. The problem with their comments, at least for me personally, was that I wasn't doing them because they liked them, but because they were, by far, the easiest way to gain xp for not only your first profession, but especially every profession after that. Since quests could only be done once, this made fates EXTREMELY important unless you wanted to spend months to get your job.

 

I did read later on that they fixed that particular issue. They dramatically increased dungeon xp for sure. But after those initial design flubs (imo), I just never wanted to go back. I'm really too busy with life and my actual favorite game of all time anyway, so it wasn't too hard to move on. But, in the end, I at least completely agree with you about that specific thing.

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