All Posts by Nerf09

I thought of coming back, only played for a couple of months.  So I looked for some real info, not the propaganda on Eve's website.

So I found a REAL description of PvP for the Empyrean Age expansion on a 3rd party review website.  Looks like its the exact same thing as WOW battlegrounds.  Players que up for an instance based on their ship level, then try to capture a flag.  How lame.

Originally posted by GoBBels

Ehh, to the definitive end...?   In JGC you only got "better" equipment till level 20 or so, there on it was just more options regarding equipment and ships... And it'l be somewhat the same in JGE.

And even though it is "better" equipment/ships above level ~20, some sometimes still choose to use the early ships, because they perhaps have an edge in mass that the later ships lack...

Enough with the B.S. we all know that isn't true, it isn't "more options" it is "uber gear".  You grind for your "uber gear" like in every other game, why deny reality?

So like in every other game where there is PvP, you grind for your "uber gear" so you can "gank the lowbies."   That is the endgame.

Originally posted by GoBBels

I don't really get what you're all arguing about. JG and JGE will both be skill based -you get better by actually being better at controling your ship, outmaneuvering your opponent, aiming etc..

 

To what end?

There are however levels in the game, but they serve more for there to be some kind progress in what you're doing.The levels don't actually grant you any extra powers, only, in the start, access to better equipment, after that it's mostly just different styles of battle e.g. medium -heavy fighters, but not exactly better -you get better by training.

Originally posted by Rabiator

Originally posted by Nerf09 

Instanced housing is useless, breaks continuity, creates invulnerability issues where everything has to be reballanced.

The low level stuff would be useful if everything were destructable in a vibrant PvP war with no carebear rules.  Carebear rules are put in place because of the grinding.

I think the apartments in Neocron (postapocalyptic/SciFi MMORPG) were meant as a safe zone for the owners. So they worked as intended.

In general, it turned out that Neocron needed some safe zones, otherwise the crafters would be griefed to death as you had to specialize: Someone who put lots of skill points into science and production did not have much for weaponry skills left.

About the low level stuff: Sure it is useless for a halfway advanced player who has access to advanced stuff. But as a fallback after bad luck (lost your high end gun in combat?) and to ensure newbies can get something to start with I think it is a must have.

Edit: Sorry for getting somewhat OT but the principles apply to any MMO. I think JGE will need to have some (halfway) safe zones and fallbacks as well.

Never seen neocron before, and instancing breaks continuity.  Instancing is what a 1st person player game is, not a MMO you pay a monthly fee for.

Originally posted by SioBabble

Originally posted by Nerf09

Originally posted by SioBabble

Originally posted by Nerf09

AI mining too.  SWG had thumpers you stuck in the ground which mined for you so you didn't have to  manually mine.  While I do admit that mining in Jumpgate IS fun and challenging. 

BUT I would still like to see non-player mining equipment, like in SWG.  If only SWG would let you destroy player owned structures, and those structures were cheap to build, then a thriving civil war would have taken place.  Unfortunately developers can't think out of the box, so they made housing expensive and invulnerable.

Think out of the box.  *folds hands and prays*  Just try it.

Yeah, think "out of the box", but also THINK THINGS THROUGH.

The SWG harvesters, if you were paying close attention, can have factional allignments.

I believe the original design was for factionally alligned harvesters to be attackable by the other faction.

The problem is, however, that due to the nature of SWG's Galactic Civil War, in which it was impossible to secure an area, unlike IRL, and furthermore next to impossible to defend a fixed installation on 24/7 basis (which is why bases had vulnerability windows), also unlike IRL, you can't have vulnerable harvesters.  The griefing issues would drive customers away.  Frankly, it's not fun standing around guarding something for hours or days on end.  I've actually been in uniform and done this.  It's not fun.  At all.

Which is what would happen if you had attackable harvesters.  Might as well just eliminate the harvesters and have only hand sampling.

Then of course there's the obvious tactic/dodge of only placing your harvesters when you're on leave, so that they have no factional vulnerablity.

But of course, you haven't bothered to think any of this through.

 

If your faction is in control of an area, then faction mutual defense would make it easier to defend your assets, even while offline.  I have thought it through.

 

 

Define "control of an area".

Would you have a means of controlling all access to that area, so that your attackable harvesing equipment could not be destroyed?  Would this control be so absolute that it could be maintained on a 24/7 basis?

I really don't  think you've actually sat down and seriously thought through all the possibilites.  If your resource extraction area can be defended 24/7 reasonably, then I can see this working.  The catch is, in space you're dealing with three dimensions.  Furthermore, sitting around waiting for an attack that may or may not come is tedious.  VERY tedious.  IRL people do this because it's their job, but they're not happy about it.  Remember, this is a game.  It's supposed to be fun!

Guard duty may seem semi-funlike for a short period, but it gets boring fast.

As I noted above, SWG realized this by giving fixed bases destruction vulnerablity times.  Once every 24 hours the base could be blown up.  That's when your aliance would rally the forces to defend the base.  We had some epic PvP battles on Ahazi attacking and defending bases.  But there were very specific things that had to happen to destroy a base.  If one PA/Alliance/Guild had to guard their harvesters, which were far flung and tended to move every couple of weeks as the resource spawns moved, on a 24/7 basis, or even a daily window...

Which is why they'd plant "neutral" harvesters.  They'd be off duty and the harvesters would be not factionally aligned, therefore unattackable.  Therefore you didn't have to spend time guarding them.  Because guarding things is not fun, and the whole idea behind the game is to have fun.

People complained enough already that SWG preCU was "like having a second job" just running a crafting business.  A hitch in the military doing all the unglamorous things that take up most of a soldier's day could hardly be considered anything but that.

Assets are there to be defended, otherwise it's another pointless grinding game.  Spend your time defending and expanding, or spend your time grinding and expanding your character at a narrow set-defined rate.

Regimenting the game to where powerleveling your buddies up is impossible, forcing you to group with exactly 5 other players because that is what the map is rated at, and making magic finding not profitable will destroy core gameplay.

Making spell sprites and special sprites heavy on the eye candy would limit spamming spell sprites and special sprites cause it "lags the computer out", would destroy core gameplay.

Making a level 99 character twice as effective as a level 98 character would destroy core gameplay.

There are so many things that can go wrong.

Character customization and emotes would be an ADDITION that can't destroy the core fun of the Diablo 2 gameplay.  Some additions can ruin the core game.  I don't see how customization can ruin the core gameplay. 

A new loot system can destroy the core gameplay. 

Forced grouping with the healer "GLF MONK!"  "GLF HEALER CLASS" can destroy core gameplay.

Dumbing down the game can destroy the core gameplay.

Slowing down characters to where the animation is slow, like no teleporting, can destroy the core gameplay.

Slowing down the spell animation can destroy core gameplay.

Long cooldown timers on skillzzzzz, like in that stupid game called Guild Wars can destroy core gameplay.

Limiting a necromancer to only having one or a couple pets, cause it "lags the server out", can destroy core gameplay.

Customization won't destroy the core gameplay, that is something "safe" a developer can do without it coming back and biting them in the ass.

Originally posted by Yvese

I'm sorry, but all of you haters are fools. 

 

You people are the reason MMO's, and PC gaming in general are going to shit.  You all expect TOO much out of a game.  You want this, you want that.  You want the game to be your PERSONAL way, when that's not what everyone wants.  Once you finally get a game that fits your description, you toss it aside because you feel it sucks and "doesn't feel like that good of a game".  I laugh at you. 

 

I've been reading all these posts about the D3 announcement and I can't help but tear my hair out at all these so called "diablo" fans that are "dissappointed".  You are the people that wanted this game.  You are the people that registered on Diablo 3 fansites.  You are the people that practically begged Blizzard to make this sequel, and when it's finally announced; "I'm dissappointed" - "It's not an MMO, that's too bad.  I'll wait for the next game ( Which wil result in the same dissappointment and the cycle will never end for you )" - "It's not 3d" - "It still has the same camera.  WTF blizz? This is 2008, and the game is coming out @ 09 or 10? LOL! This will fail surely!!" - "How crappy.  It's just D2 with updated graphics, new classes and story line"

 

Seriously, you people make me sick.  What the hell do you people want? Do you want Blizzard to send an agent to each person that will buy D3 and ask them how they want the game to be? Do you want them to make different Diablo 3's to cater to your playstyle/expectations? Guess what? Impossible.

 

I feel sorry for developers.  You people are spoiled and expect too much, and when something finalyl comes out that looks like it might be it, you shrug it off because you didn't like one or a few little things. 

 

Bring on D3.  I'm glad Blizzard is [i][b]staying true[/i][/b] to the series and keeping the same camera style, classes, evilness, darkness, gore, and endless mobs to kill.  That is Diablo. If you don't like it, then guess what? You never liked the series.  Gtfo.

Yeah, go back to WOW.   

We don't want your soulbound, roll for loot, gold farmers, forced groupings, GLF monk, GLF priest, infinate grind.  Just give us D2 with better graphics.

Gaming companies are infamous for screwing up sequels.    If they can't make it better, just make a D2 with better graphics and better internet performance.

I got a pile of sequels which are worse then previous incarnations.  Lets see.  *rummages through pile*

Sequels which got definatively worse with time:

Master of Orion 3

Starfleet Command 3

Empire Earth 2

Hearts of Iron 2

Quake 3

MMORPG's that get worse over time:

SWG

Planetside

WOW

Sequels which haven't improved gameplay, but also haven't gotten worse:

Battlefield 2

TF2

Sequels which actually improved the game.

Diablo 2 (sequel to Diablo 1)

Medieval Total War take 2

Originally posted by Mrxknown

 

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Then please enlighten us and ALL the developers in the MMO market. What should they do?

 

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-No Insurance for your ship

-Make it so it takes about a half an hour of manually mining to get a good fighter, a couple hours for a capital ship, about a day for heavy starbases.

-Allow players to hire NPC automatic miners, or some sort of mining structure, a risky investment.

-No PvP zones, nothing is invulnerable, everything is destructable, no instancing, full looting.

-fuel costs fuel that was actually mined, missles that were actually produced  by players, and equipment wear out.

-All Player made equipment like in SWG, no computer made equipment.

-Player structures where players store items, or build factories.

Now each faction can war against another, each faction providing mutual defense for each other.  Since it doesn't take forever to grind for your gear players will have more time to fight each other and it won't be such a big deal if they lose equipment.

In every game I played, all of the reballancing rules, all the PvP zones, all the invulnerabilities, nerfings and buffings and buffings and nerfings boil down to one thing; it takes forever to grind for your gear.

With the exception of WWIIONLINE and PLANETSIDE every game on the list to the left follows the same old worn out formula:  heavy grinding, no risk.  No risk because there is heavy grinding, heavy grinding because there is no risk, both principles feed back on each other.

Originally posted by VideoJockey

 

Originally posted by Nerf09

 

Originally posted by eric_w66

If you could fly the best ships from day 1, there wouldn't be much to call it a MMO.... that'd be more of a FPS type of game with no progression.

Every MMORPG is a "level" based game, even Eve. Eve's is based on time spent  learning skills, but it still equates to "levels". New pilots in eve can't fly battlecruisers on day 1.

You all lack imagination.  ALL OF YOU!

 

A vigorous PvP unrestricted environment could happen, without ganking, without grinding, without all the other nonsense that plagues othergames, but you all lack imagination to do it.  You are all stuck on the old Everquest model and you will never get out of it.

 

What you describe has already been done. It was called Planetside. I don't want JGE to become that. I want it to be a game where you earn things and feel a sense of accomplishment, not a game where you log in, pick out whatever you want to fly, get blown up, and shrug and walk away. The driving force behind MMO's is the sense of accomplishment and fear of losing that accomplishment. Without an emotional investment, there's no excitement. No fun. And don't bother singing the merits of beating other players; only insecure people need that kind of stimulation.

 

Planetside could have had player investment in character, defense, economy, terrain.  It would have taken a larger world,  It could have been done in Planetside. 

It can be done in WWIIONLINE.  It certainly would be a different flavor but it can be done.

FPS can be expanded to be more then just FPS. 

The Total War series successfully merged RTS with 4X.  They did it.  They have imagination and vision.

Originally posted by Newt

You must be coming from an EVE background, because well, the death penalty isn't that severe in Jumpgate Classic.  Losing stuff comes out to maybe 10% of the value of your ship.  And you get the same ship hull back, you just have to re-equip it.  JGE will have the same type of model.. insurance pays for a percentage of the value of ship, cargo and upgrades  AND gives you the same hull, but you'll have to buy the upgrades again. 

Makes faction war, inter-faction feuding, war profiteering, or piracy kind of pointless doesn't it, other then getting your jollies off ganking noobs.

Originally posted by SioBabble

Originally posted by Nerf09

AI mining too.  SWG had thumpers you stuck in the ground which mined for you so you didn't have to  manually mine.  While I do admit that mining in Jumpgate IS fun and challenging. 

BUT I would still like to see non-player mining equipment, like in SWG.  If only SWG would let you destroy player owned structures, and those structures were cheap to build, then a thriving civil war would have taken place.  Unfortunately developers can't think out of the box, so they made housing expensive and invulnerable.

Think out of the box.  *folds hands and prays*  Just try it.

Yeah, think "out of the box", but also THINK THINGS THROUGH.

The SWG harvesters, if you were paying close attention, can have factional allignments.

I believe the original design was for factionally alligned harvesters to be attackable by the other faction.

The problem is, however, that due to the nature of SWG's Galactic Civil War, in which it was impossible to secure an area, unlike IRL, and furthermore next to impossible to defend a fixed installation on 24/7 basis (which is why bases had vulnerability windows), also unlike IRL, you can't have vulnerable harvesters.  The griefing issues would drive customers away.  Frankly, it's not fun standing around guarding something for hours or days on end.  I've actually been in uniform and done this.  It's not fun.  At all.

Which is what would happen if you had attackable harvesters.  Might as well just eliminate the harvesters and have only hand sampling.

Then of course there's the obvious tactic/dodge of only placing your harvesters when you're on leave, so that they have no factional vulnerablity.

But of course, you haven't bothered to think any of this through.

 

If your faction is in control of an area, then faction mutual defense would make it easier to defend your assets, even while offline.  I have thought it through.

Originally posted by Rabiator

Originally posted by Tikigod

In responce to AI mining for you..... your kidding right???

 

Why would a game thats main focus is on players performing the tasks themselves introduce a system where people type a command and sod off for a day or two whilst the game does the job for them?

We have already been told that the mining system in JGE will feature a more 'active' role, where the player will not only have to find asteroids to mine, but then find veins on that asteroid in which to extract ore.

 

So th player has to scout the asteroids, find veins and then...

1) you could do it Eve style, with the player having to stay at the asteroid and unload the ore every  few minutes into a container, or

2) the player could deploy a mining unit on the asteroid that works automatically, with less grind. I'd pefer that one.

In both cases, the system does not need to be sod off-friendly. Every few hours, let some NPC pirates spawn that are too strong to simply ignore. Then the AFK miners will frequently find themselves without a ship .

BTW this is something I would recommend for EVE too. Macrominers are a problem there, because the better mining barges can tank the NPC pirates in highsec space.

Eve Online is a grinding game, who wants a mindless grinding game.

Originally posted by Rabiator

Originally posted by Nerf09

decay

100% player made

Housing and factory structures (space structures of course)

No Instancing

 

Without all 4, it just wouldn't work.

1) Decay or item destruction on losing a fight. Eve has the latter and it works too.

2) From my experience with Face Of Mankind, it is a bad idea to rely 100% on player economy. Because when the market for low level items runs dry, newbies are out of luck. So let NPCs sell some basic equipment and leave the better stuff for players to make. You get a 80%-90% player economy and overall happier customers.

3) Definitely yes.

4) Agree, except for housing in large apartment blocks:

Here you can have an elevator that takes you right to your instanced apartment, without a glaring break in the logic of the game. Because who cares about one more apartment in a big block?

This worked well for Neocron.

Never heard of Neocron. 

Instanced housing is useless, breaks continuity, creates invulnerability issues where everything has to be reballanced.

The low level stuff would be useful if everything were destructable in a vibrant PvP war with no carebear rules.  Carebear rules are put in place because of the grinding.

Eve is a grinding game.

Originally posted by kawiho

I do to some extend agree with nerf09, and will add that manuel mining and so on is a way to fill in.. why nor just dump a mining probe and pick it up a few days later, so u can spend ur time finding the best astrooids to mine ore fly ur hull full of contraband from one station to another.

the good thing about manual mining is that not everyone will mine and therefore it will keep the prices up on good materials. and ppl can make alot of money without having to fight all the time, this will make the good merchants happy and a nother aspect of the game. more ways to get rich. the market will not be flootet with mats.

this is entirely my pwn opinion.

Heavy Grind Mining = Carebear rules

Easy materials, cheap cheap cheap, or automatic mining like SWG = No Carebear rules it's not so bad being ganked and losing stuff.  The Merchants were very happy in SWG without manual mining.

Originally posted by JMadisonIV

 

Originally posted by tfox2k1

Nerfs and the whining community destroyed Planetside as much as bad management at SOE.

 

BFRs and Armor were the only reasons to play Planetside over better games like BF1942.   Ruin the BFR and Armor and people left in droves, never to return.    Now the Rambos in Planetside run around zerging towers, all twelve of them remaining.

 

 

you haven't got the slightest clue.

 

people "left in droves, never to return" when BFRs were introduced into the game, and even more left when the game became an Armor and Reaver-spam fest..  that is a fact.

That  CE destroying OS is what I didn't like the most.  Push a button and all defenses are down, pretty lame.

Originally posted by Eraser55

I got the impression that AI in Jumpgate Evolution will fill basic Player roles.. so I think there will be AI mining.. transporting, patroling, killing bad guys...

 

But I also got impression that it will be balanced.. so if there are alot of players mining, there wont be need for AI to mine..  and so on..

 

But nothing about Players having their own AI to mine for them.. that would be a Big NO NO.

Manual mining means carebear rules and invulnerable player stations.

Originally posted by Tikigod

In responce to AI mining for you..... your kidding right???

 

Why would a game thats main focus is on players performing the tasks themselves introduce a system where people type a command and sod off for a day or two whilst the game does the job for them?

We have already been told that the mining system in JGE will feature a more 'active' role, where the player will not only have to find asteroids to mine, but then find veins on that asteroid in which to extract ore.

 

 

As for Player owned station, the last we heard from Netdevil regarding them, they were still unsure if they should even be included into the game on launch. So it could be that the problem will be a non-issue as player structures simply won't exist.

If mining is all manual, then equipment will be all expensive, and dying and losing equipment will be horrible, and when dying and losing equipment is horrible there are carebear rules and PvP zones.  That is why.

AI mining too.  SWG had thumpers you stuck in the ground which mined for you so you didn't have to  manually mine.  While I do admit that mining in Jumpgate IS fun and challenging. 

BUT I would still like to see non-player mining equipment, like in SWG.  If only SWG would let you destroy player owned structures, and those structures were cheap to build,