THEY ARE BRINGING BACK COMPLETELY NEW EPISODES OF DRAGON BALL Z!

Here is proof:  I AM GOKU AND I AM BRINGING BACK NEW EPISODES SSJ3!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by mkpvpks

Here's an idea that no one game I know of has tried.  It goes something like this.

Oh wow I was just running around killing stuff and got this neat new sword.  It sure is nice but I think it needs a fire enchantement.  I better go to the wizard and get him to enchant it for me.

Wizard charges a minor amount of gold for a small fire enchantment.  The sword is slightly improved and now glows red slightly.

A day or 2 later.

Man this sword I got enchanted is nice but I think it could use a bigger enchantment.  Back to the wizard.

This time mere gold will not suffice and the wizard sends you on a simple quest and afterwards he increases the enchantment.  It glows a brighter red and does more fire damage.

2 days after that.

This sword has been working out well but its still not enough fire damage.  Lets see what the wizard will do for me.

Once again gold is not enough and the wizard sends you to kill some monsters and bring back their body parts.  Afterward he encreases the enchantment once again.  The sword doesnt glow any more than the time before and the wizard informs you that to enchant the weapon anymore it will need to be reforged by a smith first.

1 day later.

Ok I am gonna do it I want more fire damage it will be worth it to get the sword reforged.  Time to go to the smith.

The smith charges you more gold than the wizard did but informs you the weapon is now more deadly along with having the fire enchantment.  The smith then tells you that you will get to choose between 2 handle designs that he can put on the sword.

 

 

OK Maybe some of you have read this far and still dont see where this is going.  Its simple really.  Its one weapon or armor piece or item of your choice that you can continually quest to upgrade.  It doesnt have to be a sword it can be an axe or a helmet or a breastplate.  So you start off with a plain old everyday sword and with enough time and effort you end up with a weapon completely created by you.  You would get to name it choose the enhancements you want to quest for to be placed upon it and even have its look changed as you see fit.  Gone are the days of "oh boy I hope I get that uber weapon soon" instead it would be "as soon as I finish this quest I will have the perfect weapon for my style of play".  Why hasnt anyone done this in a MMORPG???  The first one who does will make some good money.

Someone DID already try this.

Originally posted by healz4u

 

Originally posted by RonnyRulz

 

 

If they'd just fix the hitching and the "flashing" textures, balance the PvP server (I hear it's very messed up) and IMO it would be fit for release.

[I am downloading; I have time.  I cannot sleep.  Not when I have a day off tomorrow, although I have a lot of work to get done.]

 

 

I agree, and they need:

 

A.  Greater character customization such as an 1) AA point system (similar to EQ 1 but more for character enhancement instead of raid enhancement) and 2) unique spells and abilities from heroic Quests;

 

B.  Fishing/Hunting and other activities that enhances the vast world feel;

 

C.  Taverns similar to SWG's to enhance community and world-feel. [make them an instance if it causes lag]

 

D.  Raids (Update 3 will have this)

 

---

Hmm, you're right. That raises the bar IMO, and I now feel it wouldn't be "fit for release" until they also implement those things.

Perhaps also a more complex/intelligent AI to fight instead of just giving the AI tons of hp. I'd love to see the reaction system and strategy play a bigger part in difficult fights.

Originally posted by healz4u

 

Originally posted by RonnyRulz

 

 

GO BACK TO VANGUARD

 

I think it is a good game that is dieing (literally) to become a great game.

 

When you play it, you can feel the vision of its creators and developers and the breath and imagination they had.  Vanguard has not yet had a chance to get beyond BETA. 

 

Some really cool people, great people play that game.  I find myself, unusually, continuously emphasizing community.  I think it is because WoW, from my experience, generally has a worse than bad community.  EQ 2 has an awesome community.  Vanguard has awesome people and a lot of jerks.  Community is important. 

If they'd just fix the hitching and the "flashing" textures, balance the PvP server (I hear it's very messed up) and IMO it would be fit for release.

I've played EQ2, now a month of Vanguard. They're both very good, especially graphically, but very poor in performance.

I fell in love with EQ2, but my jerk of a friend (who I bought the game for) ruined it and wasted my $50 becuase he sucks, and then later claims "Money is useless" as an excuse to justify his wasting my $50. That'll teach me to be nice and buy things for other people. He liked the game, we had a TON of fun, but because SoE screwed ME out of 23 free days, he refused to pay the $15, despite the fact I BOUGHT HIM THE GAME $50. Before I bought him the game, he said he'd pay the first month ($15) too, which was a LIE.

*twitch*

So instead I'm with Vanguard, because I can have fun playing that without IRL friends.
I never really tried to group in EQ2, but every seemed to want to solo.

Originally posted by healz4u

 

Originally posted by cupertino

they have confirmed this and they have said "it will be innovative like nothing seen before".

 

Oh. I am excited.  Blizzard has made some great products:  Warcraft III: Frozen Throne; Starcraft; Diablo; et al.  Yes. I consider World of Warcraft a good product. 

 

At least I know where all the money they made from WoW is going!  It was smart not to put it into WoW with actually "good" expansions. 

Warcraft 3 blows more than the wind on a stormy night or a nurse who

Starcraft is THE  greatest RTS game of all time.
Warcraft 2 was amazing.
Diablo 2 is like WoW: somehow amazingly popular, but no one understands why because the game is boring after a week-month.

Originally posted by healz4u

 

Originally posted by RonnyRulz

 

Originally posted by healz4u

I left my guild in charge to a Music major at Harvard.

 

 

 

Oh no, your guild is going to be full of bards and gaye songs of old. Everyone will speak like a Musical and raids like an Opera.

That is Yale.  Not Harvard (HAAH vihd is a good pronunciation).

 

 

Anyway, I am still downloading everything.  I am starting to think this might have been a mistake.  Nevertheless, I look forward to talk with people I used to play with. 

 

I do not even have time for a single game let alone any of these.  LOL.

GO BACK TO VANGUARD

Originally posted by healz4u

I left my guild in charge to a Music major at Harvard.

 

 

Oh no, your guild is going to be full of bards and gaye songs of old. Everyone will speak like a Musical and raids like an Opera.

Originally posted by MarleVVLL

 

Originally posted by mkpvpks

No I played eq1 for 2 years it had nothing like this.  There are a few single player rpg with something like this but I havent seen anything in a MMO even close to it.  It wouldnt be crafting it would be quests to continually upgrade whatever item.  Not a different item with each quest but the same one is being improved each time.

 

As for the saying "The road to hell is paved with good intentions" if you dont get it you never will.

 

No, I do get it.

 

But its false. Are you askin' me to preach now?

Why force him to change his signature because you dislike it?

In internet debate, I've seen people change their mind about once every Mars Landing. This means that never yet, but maybe eventually it'll happen.

But you know, I prefer an individual who has a set of beliefs over one of those hippies who are like, "Perhaps all religions are right." or "Truth is subjective." I don't care if you're a fanatical muslim or militant atheist if the other option is those types of hippie, lol. Oh course, I prefer people who are open-minded, but not gullible, who will receive information in a kind and polite manner. Just anything besides those "Truth is subjective" hippies.

Truth can't be subjective, that doesn't even make sense. Truth is a compilation of FACTS in REALITY. Reality is not subjective, facts are not subjective, and Truth is not subjective. I hate that type of "mindset". If you know what kind of mindset I'm talking about when I say the "All things are subjective. In fact, reality could be a dream" type of mindset, then you understand what I'm talking about. If you don't know the "mindset" I'm talking about, then nevermind, you just gotta know those types of people, usually cat-ladys in MMORPG's.
Burn the hippies!!!!! lol

I actually ran into one of these cat-lady "Everything is subjective" people when playing Vanguard last night. The type that randomly shares with EVERYONE needless information like "I am on the toilet going to the bathroom while using my laptop and wireless internet." and then proceeds to be a "Third Person" to every topic, debate, or conversation, spouting off pseudo-wisdom like "Rules are always subjective." and "I did not say that, but what I said means many different thigns." and other anti-logic things that make me want to commit genocide on their cats, which would result in a total breakdown of all the cat-ladys, because everyone knows they have to have their cats.

*shudders* Crazy Cat Ladies are my worst fear, worst annoyance, worst nauseating, and worst everything. WHY are they so crazy and WEIRD?

One of my favorite quotes from Futurama is when....

*Bender recovers from the dream where he becomes a wood-robot because he is jealous of Robot 1X*
Bender: But that dream was so real.....could it be that reality itself is actually a dream.....?
Scientist: NO!!!!!!!! *pulls lever*  NEXT!

Originally posted by tsurugi

PvP server is ruined because of those vgBuddy users.  Don't PM or ask me where to download it.

What are you talking about??????

Originally posted by Flyte27

If the combat is implemented well then any style can work.

Exactly!

Originally posted by Yablo

To some degree I agree with the OP regarding the nature of the combat issues. I feel the main drawback regarding combat in MMO's isn't so much whether it is fast paced or slow paced, but the incredibly repetitive nature of battles. Usually, you go out hunting, find a mob, and utilize the exact same tactic over and over and over and over on it. The only variance coming in the case if you miss a few more times than normal or it crits you or so forth. Otherwise, whether it's fast paced or slow paced, the repetition is the same. I'm waiting on a game that utilizes enemies with adaptive AI, that change their tactics as you use yours, causing you to constantly shift your own playstyle.

Now, I do have a disagreement with the statement made that those wanting more physics based attacks (arrows hitting depending on whether or not something is in the way) are simply looking for an FPS with MMO elements. Asherons Call had a system where spells and arrows could be dodged depending on the players movement, and I found that it added a level of realism and excitement to certain battles that was sorely needed. Especially in the area of PvP, which was made incredibly nerve wracking/exciting when you were zig zagging around with firebolts zipping past your head.

Asheron's Call isn't as physics based as what I was meaning when I said they are looking for an FPS.
FPS games are completely physics intensive, and that's actually the entire design of the game.
As described above, MMO's have latency problems with an over-use of physics, and so theirs are A LOT more simple.

I am all for manual dodging, blocking, and casting. But I do prefer my archery to be very precise, a.k.a. not dodgeable.

It wouldn't make sense for my Sharpshooting Archer with Elite Epic Accuracy to miss a target because they "dodged" the arrow. You can't dodge an arrow, they move way too fast. And with magic being magic, I don't understand why fireballs aren't like homing devices. Not to say you shouldn't be able to dodge arrows if you move a split second BEFORE they fire at you (which is purely luck) or be able to dive out of the way of a homing fireball (Airplanes and helicopters can dodge heat-seeking missiles), but that my player-skill in aiming shouldn't hinder my Character.

I'm not roleplaying my IRL self and my IRL accuracy and twitch reflexes. I'm ROLE PLAYING an epic level 100000 archer who can shoot an arrow at a pea and hit, or a mage with such powerful magic he has no reason to miss, unless of course I'm firing at an epic-powerful reflex agility player. Hmm, I guess then it would make sense.

Originally posted by Inf666

 

Originally posted by Gameloading

The "problem" is that the old combat system is much more dependent on stats. You can't manually dodge, its based on numbers. You can't miss because of playerskill, its based on the numbers. In twitch based games, your skill as a player is much more important.

So true, but here is also where the problem is. There are two main reasons why fps style combat systems where player skill is the main factor for success are not being used:

 

1. Technology issues: In fps games latency is a huge factor. With a high latency or lag you cannot dodge the fireball, you cannot hit him properly with your sword because you are out of range. You simply cannot react in time. MMOs have players from all around the globe. If the server would only be for the local people it may work well. As soon as people from different continents are playing, stat based combat is a lot easier to handle in laggy situations.

2. Missing player skill: We all know that those long time fps players have got high player skills (reactions, adaptability, movement etc). The typical MMO player does not have these skills. Thats the way it is. A company tries to maximize the size of their customer base and the developers KNOW that the typical players would die horribly in a fps twich based environment because of missing skill. We also all now that without success a lot of players would stop playing the game quite soon. The player base would be small. Thus non player skill based combat systems are being used. Combat systems where every monkey could win.

 

Overall I agree that a combat system is not about how you control it. A combat system is about how much variability you have. I am pretty sure that you could make a "q..1..2..1.." so complex that player skills would be needed and monkeys would get unemployed again. Not with movement or dodging but via adaption and decision making (strategy). Something like chess with 2 seconds time to decide your move. Its possible but what has to happen first is that the developers decide to take the risk to actually make player skill important again. In multi million dollar projects it is very hard to push for risky requirements if you could just go the sure way of using trusted and well working game mechanics. Try to convince investors who might have never played a game in their life before why they should invest into your risky non conform (non WoW) mechanics. Actually its quite understandable why we are seeing clone after clone being raised.

What you are describing, and what I think a lot of people do not know about, is Vanguard's combat system.

It is a real-time turn-based "q...1..2...1" type of combat, but it is a lot more complex with that, ESPECIALLY as you level up to higher levels, getting more abilities.

First, the mobs aren't easy. In fact, the game is sometimes quite difficult (and thus fun, because you have to really think and strategize, using the right spells/abilities at the right time.)

The adaption and decision making is a big part of vanguard. There is the REACTION system, which implements reactions that are trigger, but you have a limited amount of time to use them. The timing is perfect IMO, enough to allow you to hit them when you want to, but fast enough where you have little time to decide.

These things are very important, as you can have around 3 reactions go off at the same time, such as protecting your defensive target, doing super damage, or "counter-spelling" to cancel the NPC's (or PvP's) spell. This is all done in real time, with reactions, split-second decisions, etc. You have only a few seconds to decide before you can't use the reaction.

There are many times in Vanguard where I've won or lost depending on if I used my reactions instead of my other skills, and what reaction or skill I picked to use.

A similar system is in EQ2, but not as vital or important. It is also a reaction based system, but you start the reaction yourself (In Vanguard multiple variables light up the reactions) and you chain your moves. The system isn't as good or complex as Vanguard's though, but as you can see, with EQ2 and Vanguard, and I'm sure future MMO's, they are vastly improving the real-time turn-based combat.

We all began with 1-10 spells and "Q" combat, that's it.
Now it's evolved to be a lot more complex, with a lot of different enhancements and styles. It's not even close to the same system it once was.

"When thinking of ideas as far as something different to present as a part of the game, here's a hint. Combat system. In some ways, everything else about a game is secondary to how the players will be spending their time fighting. "

This is total BS, don't listen to him, he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Combat systems don't have to be anything special, although should be improved upon. It's the game as a whole that matters, ESPECIALLY the core of it. A new idea for a combat system isn't going to be anything new or impressive, because there's only so many ways you can go (Turn-based, real-time turn based, real-time twitch action, third person action, FPS, RTS style)

There are more important things, such as what makes up the combat system, what makes up the skills, the animations, the FEEL, the player choice and customization. The list goes on....

Not to mention finally making a MMO where there' more than just fighting to do. A good RPG isn't about spending, so a good RPG shouldn't have players spending all their time fighting. There's A LOT to an rpg, and combat system is not even on the top 10 list. There are more important things, such as EVERYTHING related to combat being more important than the actual system.

The complexity, simplicity, vastness, uniqueness, and FUN of the combat system, the WHY, the WHEN, the WHAT, the WHO are all more important than the HOW. Read this thread http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/147920

---also, NC2 isn't turnbased nimrod, it's D20based.

Not turnbased, but D20based?

LOL

I've played it before, I know how it works. It has a FPS feel to it, but your weapon can only shoot based on a specific delay time, which is a TURN.

owned again.

D20based? LOL

Don't you have other places to troll?

Originally posted by Sramota

Just pointing out to the OP that he has the very same biased subjective (whatever abstract had to do with anything is beyond me but go ahead, have that) opinion as everyone else.

Sorry, you're not special either.

My opinion is not biased, because I included everything in my posts. As smart as it sounds to do a "You're guilty too!", it's rather mundane and over-used as a witty comment.

First, I am thinking outside the box, stating that ALL systems can be fun for the average player, because the average player enjoys nearly ALL systems, and only cares if they're fun.

Second, I included specific people's opinions as exceptions to my claim. I stated that some players will have one-sided tastes, such as preferring FPS-only styles, Turn-based only styles, etc.

The MAJORITY of players rather don't care about HOW it's done, as long as it's fun, or their personal preferences are not heavily one-sided, and so they will enjoy all styles, even if they'd enjoy one type more.

I also included a lot of other stuff, which has to do with other's opinions, not mine, as well as the general abstract thought of all combat systems and their potential and enjoyability.

This isn't my opinion either, it's my theory. There IS a difference. My opinion is that I prefer twitch-based combat systems, or a system similar to DDO over real-time turn-bsaed, solely because I am a skilled player at said systems. But since my opinion is that ALL sysytems are fun, I am able to open my mind to the wide range of systems, without limiting myself based on my opinion, while at the same time having the knowledge that any system can become fun to most players, if done right. This is not my opinion, but common sense and a fact. Anything can be fun if it's done well enough, in the right circumstances, with the right people, etc. etc.

Sorry, but your pseudo-intellect doesn't hold any ground. You failed at being witty and intelligent in your reply. I've seen your type countless times on forums and online games. The person who is out of the debate, seeing himself as having an intelligent insight that others do not see, giving  himself a pat on the back after stating "hypocrisy!" just like the hundred people before him who were blind to the picture as a whole.

Where is your proof, reason, and logic that my "opinion" is just as biased as everyone else's? This may seem like a smart thing to say because you feel it always applies universally, but you're wrong on that, it doesn't always apply. Some people are able to take a third person view on an issue, completely void of their own opinion, opening their mind up to the bigger picture, future possibilities, and opinion of the collective to form a theory. Consider this next time you think you've got something to say.

Originally posted by nomadian

well, having read your 10 posts used to explain this(could this not have been one post?) I do understand more where you're coming from and I agree to an extent, despite the manner that you've chosen to communicate this idea.

Yes, one feature like combat isn't going to make a mmorpg and there does need to be more. And yes turn-based can be just as fun as twitch-based depending on the game.

Not really. Usually I make the first post... or three in this case, as I wanted to seperate them so it isn't one VERY long one, because I know people will NOT read a post that is too long...and then people do not understand (I swear I explained it clearly) and so I post replies to their ignorant comments or comments where I disagree, re-emphasizing my point in a vain attempt to try and see if they'll understand.

Originally posted by nomadian

 

---

This is all true to a point. The combat is important. No question that there needs to be some inovation BUT combat alone does not make it an RPG. (as in MMORPG) In fact (and my point was) combat in regards to an RPG is irrelevant. Its not the primary focus of a good RPG. It is a game mechanic, thats it.

 

Combat is simply one small aspect of an RPG among many. MMOs totally rely on combat. (the same combat mechanic at that) Most new games even tie crafting into combat levels.

---

Ok, I get you and I agree. Mmorpgs definitely need to encapture more of that rpg element.

 

And to Ronnyrulz, I'm really not sure whether you're taking the mickey with your post or not articulating yourself very well. An auto-attack system like Everquests is dull, this is why it has been altered in next gen games like WoW or EQ2. When you have the majority of these games as combat-orientated(rightly or wrongly) then it does need to have a good gameplay element.

 What does "taking the mickey" mean?

Did you read my post, #17?

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1618414

I never said the combat system shouldn't evolve, enhance, or transform. Quite the opposite.

WoW and EQ2 are just enhancements of EQ1's system, which was not dull for its time, ESPECIALLY spellcasting.
Really, it is only the melee which is now dull, as spellcasting is very similar to current style. In its time though, Rogue and other melee classes were not dull, although I cannot say the same for Warrior (no magic and only like 1 special move). DAoC introduced "Styles" to enhance melee combat, which was a great idea.

I have several posts after my first three, which might help you understand what I'm trying to say.

I do not understand how I am not articulating myself well enough. My posts are needlessly long and filled with information. I blame the readers who I know do not read all of my posts because they are "too long". It isn't my fault people are lazy and don't read carefully. It is my fault I am not a better writer, but I really don't know how to write shorter posts with better structure. I've tried many times, but cannot shorten my replies enough without feeling like I exclude important information. This is primarily because I'm used to explaining ideas or arguing with people who are too stupid to understand what I'm saying (Or who are purposefully giving me a hard time because they dislike me.) and so I naturally assume everyone is an idiot (which often they are, especially in arguments, no one ever listens to each other), which is WHY I have to include as much information as possible, which results in long posts. The irony is that people rather get confused (they suck then! lol) or they skim over it, missing key sentences, which results in my entire post being long in vain. Very ironic.

In fact, I am so jaded by the cruelty and hate of the average Internet Forum Community that I re-read all my posts, sometimes more than twice, so I can make sure I didn't mispell a single word. People do not respect someone who has typos, and even worse the average internet poster is hate-filled to anyone who does not have flawless grammar. I make sure to cross all the T's and dot all the i's. With me doing that and providing so much information in such long posts, I do not understand how I could be the one at fault for not articulating well enough. If you could explain to me, I'd appreciate it. If you just missed some of my posts, then nevermind.

But oh well, in the end I get to call them an idiot and get to walk away feeling smart, even if they aren't and I'm not. 
Plus I have a very fast internet! WOOT!

Originally posted by Kyleran

You know what? I must be the odd man out.  I don't care what sort of combat system a game has....I'll use what ever is implemented.  I've played and quit about 10 MMORPG's. While I left each of them for a variety of reasons, not one time did the combat system really influence my decision to stay or leave.

 

That's exactly how I feel. I've really liked ALL MMO's combat. Well, I can't say that for Tabula Rasa, but I didn't give the game a fair chance either.

It also has A LOT of latency issues.

You could easily go linkdead, just look at terry schiavo.

And the big debate with tech support about if they should ban her account or not.

There's also a BIG debate on whether parents should be allowed to cancel their kids' accounts before they even finish character creation.

Not to mention the big debate on whether to allow the npc vendors to sell the consumable 'marijuana' based on its buff and debuff effects. Some argue the debuff effects are too harmful to have the npc vendor's sell it. Currently only the PC PK vendors sell it, but the anti-PK guilds are fighting to ban the PK's vendors.

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