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All Posts by Kyleran

All Posts by Kyleran

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12668 posts found
Originally posted by VveV
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by XcomVic

For those that missed it:

WHERE DID WE GO WRONG?

There was a time when our industry took CHANCES.

Our games didn’t have to appeal to everyone, and we didn’t judge ourselves solely on mass market success.

With amusement park games, it’s impossible to lose. With sandbox games, it’s impossible to win.

If you can’t win and you can’t lose, then

 

 

WHAT'S THE POINT OF PLAYING?

I don’t want to kill more rats, fill another experience point bar or collect another meaningless badge.

I want to play a GAME, against PLAYERS where my actions, my decisions and my SKILL will determine if I win or lose.

Allies. Enemies. Alliances. Betrayal. Risk. Conquest. To compete with THOUSANDS of other players for a chance to claim the THRONE.

Even if I lose, the experience won’t feel hollow. I don’t want another worthless trophy.

 

I WANT TO PLAY TO CRUSH.

ER, these games already exist, see EVE, DFO, MO, why aren't you already playing?

 

Going by this logic there wouldn't be any games after 2005...

^Exactly.

See, context is everything.

Since the OP did not contain a link, I had mistaken it for the typical childish, epeen laden, rage induced, internet tough guy posts so often made here on these forums and only after your response did it hit me, this was seriously the official corporate manifesto for this title, hence my reply asking the OP why he wasn't already playing such a game. 

Sure, we need some new blood in the MMORPG space, but geez, my criticisms of the manifesto still stands, all it needs is a small "boom-headshot" jpeg attached to it to complete the full stupidity of it.

C'mon, do we really want to support a company who, even tongue in check, can't come up with a way to better present their vision than one of a maniacal 17 year old?

In another thread they were asking what one thing might keep you from playing this title, i have to say, if this really is how they present their vision, I'm probably out.

 

Fallen Earth then, has guns but you said post apocalyptic and most of those have firearms. Very extensive crafting, but you seem to be after primative start from nothing scenarios.
Er, how about Skyrim?
Originally posted by General-Zod
Originally posted by Kyleran
Originally posted by XcomVic

For those that missed it:

WHERE DID WE GO WRONG?

There was a time when our industry took CHANCES.

Our games didn’t have to appeal to everyone, and we didn’t judge ourselves solely on mass market success.

With amusement park games, it’s impossible to lose. With sandbox games, it’s impossible to win.

If you can’t win and you can’t lose, then

 

 

WHAT'S THE POINT OF PLAYING?

I don’t want to kill more rats, fill another experience point bar or collect another meaningless badge.

I want to play a GAME, against PLAYERS where my actions, my decisions and my SKILL will determine if I win or lose.

Allies. Enemies. Alliances. Betrayal. Risk. Conquest. To compete with THOUSANDS of other players for a chance to claim the THRONE.

Even if I lose, the experience won’t feel hollow. I don’t want another worthless trophy.

 

I WANT TO PLAY TO CRUSH.

ER, these games already exist, see EVE, DFO, MO, why aren't you already playing?

 

Going by this logic there wouldn't be any games after 2005...

From my perspective, there really hasn't been any

 

Originally posted by JDis25
What is a PvE sandbox? That doesn't even make sense... you want to PvE, but don't want a driving story/plot? Just an open world with baddies in it for you to kill? sounds cool if mixed with typical PvE progression like Raids/Dungeons, but I really don't see the point just on it's own. A sandbox means less rules and unrestricted PvP in my book.

ER, see SWG, one of the biggest sandbox games in history, with totally opt in PVP.

 

Originally posted by XcomVic

For those that missed it:

WHERE DID WE GO WRONG?

There was a time when our industry took CHANCES.

Our games didn’t have to appeal to everyone, and we didn’t judge ourselves solely on mass market success.

With amusement park games, it’s impossible to lose. With sandbox games, it’s impossible to win.

If you can’t win and you can’t lose, then

 

 

WHAT'S THE POINT OF PLAYING?

I don’t want to kill more rats, fill another experience point bar or collect another meaningless badge.

I want to play a GAME, against PLAYERS where my actions, my decisions and my SKILL will determine if I win or lose.

Allies. Enemies. Alliances. Betrayal. Risk. Conquest. To compete with THOUSANDS of other players for a chance to claim the THRONE.

Even if I lose, the experience won’t feel hollow. I don’t want another worthless trophy.

 

I WANT TO PLAY TO CRUSH.

ER, these games already exist, see EVE, DFO, MO, why aren't you already playing?

 

Originally posted by BillMurphy

For those lamenting that we're a bit overdue for a redesign? Never fear. It's coming, and sooner than you think.

We may even have a teaser for you next week. 

RE: Massively? Syp (Justin) is one of my oldest gaming blogger buddies. We "came up" together from blogging. He and the rest of the staff are great, and I really wish I could just bring them all here.

Yeah, sure, you and the developers at Citadel of Sorcery, everything is coming "soon" and is going to be the most amazing thing ever.

Believe it when I see it.

Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Arglebargle

Originally posted by Foomerang Well on one hand you have Raph Koster, the magician behind swg working on this game. But you also have Gordon Walton, the guy who made Trammel and basically ruined UO. Cautiously optimistic would probably be the best bet here.
You mean the Trammel that stopped the hemorrhaging of subscriptions, allowed people to play as they wanted (and they voted with their feet, moving to the new servers), and lead to the peaks of player numbers in UO.  That one? 

 

 

 

 



Yep. The one even Walton himself admitted he sacrificed the soul of the game for more subs.

 

At the end of the day, more revenue is really the name of the game, and developers have to design for it, soul be damned.

Very few Devs will be like CCP and stick with very unpopular designs at the cost of greater subs.

 

 

If the game world seems pretty populated to you, does it matter what the numbers are, or whether it's going up or down, or what the server architecture is?

EVE shows how many are logged in, and the numbers are definitely lower than in it's heyday a few years ago, but still very busy everywhere, fools in my mining belt right now annoying me.

So I'm not concerned about trends in players, neither should most of you.

 

You are splitting hairs, too much trouble to type the specific percentages and compositions of the loot drops, but the term partial loot drop would be more accurate.

But to many players, anything dropping at all is a no play situation hence likely why you see the hyperbole so often.

Personally, I would prefer the Shadowbane solution of 100% inventory drop, including gold, but no drop of equipped gear.
Originally posted by filmoret
The game offered more pvp then just about any mmo.  They had aprox 10 warzones and one of them was a 30vs30 match.  You could play them all day and have fun.  They also had daily pvp quests.   Then there was the 180 person conquest which involved a lot more skill and coordination then people thought it did.  Don't call Rift a pve game.  It had too many good pvp things that not many other games offered.  They had a really happy pvp community.  So basically you would get pvp levels and buy pvp gear and never had to step foot outside of a pvp environment.  They changed it so the pvp gear is worthless and those pvp levels are equally worthless.  Now to get the best pvp gear one has to participate in pve where before that was not the case at all.

OK, that's the same gross error that Mythic did with DAOC and the TOA expansion, so I can definitely see where you are coming from.  It was a bad idea 10 years ago, still a bad one today.

Despite what others may tell you, if a MMO is providing value to you, support it by throwing them some cash on a regular basis.

Don't freeload, too many folks were raised wrong or something and never learned the concept of paying your own way and not letting others do so for you.

Keep it within  budget of course, but by spending money you will encourage development and pay your fair share towards keeping the game healthy and growing.

Yes, I've even given freeshards donations when it was worth it.

Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Kyleran

Assuming you are using this term per this definition, lacking in color, spirit, or vitality, now who is making spurious ad hominem attacks because a (minority) group of players prefer particular game mechanics and designs.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't invalidate the preference, or make it less worthy.  Using your approach, I can look down my nose at WOW players because they play such a simple, boring game, where the end game involves a complicated version of the hokey pokey (put your left foot here, have your priests stand there, circle strafe the boss mob and turn yourself around) and no real challenge or strategy to speak of.

It's not true of course (well, not much) but still I don't begrudge other players for liking game play mechanics that I don't care for.

Please, let me know what games you design, clearly they aren't for me and I'll make sure to take a pass.

In business terms, EVE's niche is a weak segment, so the term anemic isn't an attack but simply an accurate measure of how strong the niche market is.  It's not very strong.  Hence: anemic.  It's up to you whether you treat the truth as a personal attack.

WOW offers PVE combat puzzles.  If you choose the easy puzzles, it's easy.  If you choose the hard ones, it's hard.  People enjoy solving puzzles (as long as they're not forced to do puzzles they've totally mastered; hence the need for constant new content.)

Did significant balance work on Age of Empires 3 Asian Dynasties (also a little work on AOE2), and Rise of Nations (+expansion).  In terms of design work, most of the games lately aren't even my own perfect preference of game because that's just how the industry works.  For example even though I love the theme (advance your civilization from the dawn age to the space age), our PVP is progression-heavy and not "fair" PVP where skill always wins.  So ironically it's exactly the type of casual PVP you'd enjoy!

Clever wording on your part, but I'll concede that the market for EVE is weak, especially compared to the titans in almost every other market.  Of course the market for Ferrari's is also anemic, so I guess EVE is in pretty good company. 

Thanks for the game list, not my style of gaming, I'm strictly MMORPG's and quite truthfully, I've realized these days I'm strictly EVE, they just don't build MMO's as I prefer them anymore.  (though if my DAOC freeshard ever relaunches I will have one other alternative)

Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Kyleran
You claim to design games for a living, yet you show a real lack of understanding of how EVE really works and why some players actually enjoy the gameplay of things such as mining, or how the PvP works well in this virtual world. You enjoy "games" and favor designs where things are "fair and balanced", hence you enjoy playing WOW and other titles where that is the focus, and you are part of the majority I'll agree. But EVE isn't for the majority, it's for those who want an experience more akin to tell life, hence it has things such as long travel times ( not just a time sink) and pvp where it is far more important to win big, using any advantage you can get, than play fair or test your personal twitch skills. The fact you enjoy WOW totally explains your distaste for EVE, and my love of EVE explains why I don't like WOW, their designs are so very different, and almost mutually exclusive, my guess you won't find many who enjoy both games as they are today.

No, I do understand the anemic reasons EVE appeals to players.  I  also understand the significant forces making it unappealing to most players.  And you've basically summed it all up above (and in cases like EVE's PVP style, it's simultaneously the reason it doesn't appeal to most players, but does appeal to an anemic group.)

Assuming you are using this term per this definition, lacking in color, spirit, or vitality, now who is making spurious ad hominem attacks because a (minority) group of players prefer particular game mechanics and designs.

Just because you don't like it, doesn't invalidate the preference, or make it less worthy.  Using your approach, I can look down my nose at WOW players because they play such a simple, boring game, where the end game involves a complicated version of the hokey pokey (put your left foot here, have your priests stand there, circle strafe the boss mob and turn yourself around) and no real challenge or strategy to speak of.

It's not true of course (well, not much) but still I don't begrudge other players for liking game play mechanics that I don't care for.

Please, let me know what games you design, clearly they aren't for me and I'll make sure to take a pass.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Cecropia

No, his comment certainly has merit (this is big coming from me because I next to never agree with Gdemami).

Your attitude towards the game is clearly composed of a combination of ignorance and an annoyance with not being able to "get into it". One really has to wonder why you even bother with EVE related threads.

Unless travel (and other types of downtime) is dramatically reduced, and unless combat's predeterminism is changed, then my core critique is still intact.  We know that good games are a series of interesting decisions (Sid Meier) yet compared with other games, EVE offers very sparse decisions.

Not sure what you mean by being annoyed at not being able to get into something.  If a game fails to be fun, I'm not annoyed, I just don't play it.  If someone else praises the game on the general forum (where this started), I chime in. It's not like it's a big secret that EVE isn't for most players; I just happen to be very specific (as someone who designs games for a living) about exactly why it's not for most players.

 

You claim to design games for a living, yet you show a real lack of understanding of how EVE really works and why some players actually enjoy the gameplay of things such as mining, or how the PvP works well in this virtual world. You enjoy "games" and favor designs where things are "fair and balanced", hence you enjoy playing WOW and other titles where that is the focus, and you are part of the majority I'll agree. But EVE isn't for the majority, it's for those who want an experience more akin to tell life, hence it has things such as long travel times ( not just a time sink) and pvp where it is far more important to win big, using any advantage you can get, than play fair or test your personal twitch skills. The fact you enjoy WOW totally explains your distaste for EVE, and my love of EVE explains why I don't like WOW, their designs are so very different, and almost mutually exclusive, my guess you won't find many who enjoy both games as they are today.
Well this might work during the paid early access, but once it goes live as F2P they'll lose all control because hackers will just keep making new accounts to cheat.
Giving away c store items to celebrate eh? Yeah, this IP continues to be wasted, shame as it deserved better.
Modern MMOs really aren't worth a sub fee, understandable that people won't pay for them.

Yet, when it comes to a game such as EVE, two of my friends and I each pay for 4 subs each, because it offers something of value to us to do so.

Give players good benefit and they'll pay, just hasn't been any reason to do so.
Originally posted by Decimuss
Originally posted by Enbysra
Originally posted by Decimuss

When you need "P2W Reduction methods" in the first place, something has gone wrong...

P2W simply shouldn't exist in a game, period.

Actually, if you truly understand the complex interweaving systems of an MMORPG, you would see that "Pay to Win" in and of itself is actually healthier*** to the longevity of any MMORPG than to not have it.

[EDIT / ADD] *** And I need to add, by "healthier", I do not mean as far as financial profits to a game company (although it too is the case in this respect, if you look at long term profiting). By "healthier" I mean from the players' perspectives, given the integrity of the game itself in terms of the in-game world's liveliness. In other words, it makes for a better game for the greatest majority of players. This "majority" needs no proof as being a fact, as said proof can be recognized in the reality of the financial standing of the majority of any population. This boils down to a few rich, and a whole lot of average if not broke as **** people. To attempt to argue that particular point, would be... oh *sigh*

It has nothing to do with "something has gone wrong", saying it is implemented correctlyHere is why...

 

What is "Pay to Win"?

Simply put, it is an advantage that players can achieve by way of real life money.

 

The issue with this is not that it would exist within an MMORPG, and here is why (if P2W does not exist)...

 

  • The advantage of outright Skill is to one group of advantaged players that will always exist (these in particular will be able to accomplish feats with a chosen playstyle, that no amount of time would allow most other players to accomplish).
  • The advantage of outright more Time to play is to one group of advantaged players that will always exist (with the exception of such as games in China, possibly throughout Asia, whereas they place time restrictions on power and-or drops by law).
  • The advantage of real Social skills is to one group of advantaged players that will always exist (these in particular will have an easier time of finding and-or organizing a simple group, but not necessarily raids).
  • The advantage of Coordinating many players (real leadership and-or managing skills) is to one group of advantaged players that will always exist (and these in particular, often are to the advantage of all other groups of players, including those that lack any advantages themselves).

 

And there may even be more I have not gotten around to identifying.

The issue with "Pay to Win" is specifically due to it's NOT being "Restricted P2W.

Thus, "Unrestricted P2W" is what all but the developers (making money off of Unrestricted P2W) and those with money to be identified as gaining "Unrestricted P2W Advantages", actually have a real issue with. And rightfully so.

 

Thus, "Restricted P2W" allows another group of advantaged players into an MMORPG that otherwise would not exist (given we treat Black Market Transactions and Dealings as illegal and not part of this conversation, as logically, such is irrelevant).

 

Basically, this realization that EVE Online does in fact have a P2W Reduction Method, I have to tip my hat and give CCP mad props for this. Whereas the subject could be further argued with respect to "degree with which EVE has implemented a P2W Reduction Method well or not", at least it appears they are truly moving in the right direction.

 

Now do realize, I absolutely hate "Unrestricted P2W" myself.

I happen to recognize however, that it is not "P2W" in and of itself that is the issue.

Most things, P2W included, come down to proper implementations. Further to this point, is "proper implementation" simply (although by no means a simple task to do so) means to "balance the advantaged players". Thus striking a balance of player advantaged groups of Money VS Time VS Skill VS Social VS Coordinating, etc etc. 

 

 

Without my own further playing out EVE to a far more in depth or higher point, based on what I can see by way of browsing the region market and understanding how the skill system is structured verse the ships and add-ons, it appears as if EVE has dead on nailed how to implement both P2W and it's Reduction Method properly.

Originally posted by BarakIII
As I recall PLEX was integrated into Eve Online as a means to battling an out of control isk seller problem. The idea of being p2w, if you can call it that, was not the point. You might argue that it is p2w, but whatever you call it, it was successful at eliminating the isk seller problem and has been a healthy addition to the game economy overall. Whether this can work in other games, I don't know, but it did work in Eve.

Hmm... Any official and-or EVE Vet explanations as to how PLEX was intended to battle the isk seller problem? 

 

Sorry, but I couldn't disagree more.

 

Money should never be a determining factor in any competitive environment, because it is not distributed equally.

The only reason P2W even exists is corporate greed, and people defending that greed.

 

I'd encourage you to read the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfair_competition

http://www.fairplayinternational.org/fairplay/the-essence-of-fair-play#.VMbgE_6sXIc

 

If you look at sports like football, hockey, tennis, you name it; money is not a factor in how good someone is. Never has been, never will be.

For closer example, look at eSports. You cannot buy power in those games, because fair rules of competition apply.

 

 

And how does nickel & diming customers or fooling them into buying P2W items make for a healthier game? I'm starting to think this is a troll post. If so, you went through awful lot of effort & shiny colours to make it.

If someone can't devote time, or doesn't have enough skill to play a competitively, then he should just play it for fun and entertainment. Just like in any other aspect of life.

Wait, what?  Do you understand how professional sports work?  Money buys you the best players, and it definitely helps you win.

Even in college, schools that spend the most on scholarships and what not win, and win often.  You think someone becomes a tennis champion with out sinking a ton of money in expensive tennis schools for years and years? (like 50K a year from the time you are 6 years old)

Money rules competitive sports, always has, always will.

 

Originally posted by superconducting
Originally posted by azzamasin
P2W does not mean experience gain.  Learn to Definition.

Not necessarily.

I will not get into this because You can literally find 100 different definitions of what constitutes P2W.

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/345343

And yes, some did mention experience gain as one.

And those people are flat out wrong, doesn't matter that they believe it.

The only time experience gain matters in any way is right at launch, those who gain exp faster can reach top levels in PVP and have an advantage, until everyone else catches up.

ESO's been out a long time, and there are many people at top level, so it's too late to worry about it, just time to get busy catching up to them.

I feel anyone who pays sub fee deserves significant advantage over the total F2P payer, and like most games, this one doesn't go far enough in my book.

 

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