Originally posted by negacrowbar

You know what I am tired of... I am tired of writers who write about how they feel forced to write about Cataclysm... if you don't want to write about it, then don't... there is plenty of other news in the MMO world that you can find something else to write (rant) about....

Whether you like WOW or not, it is a great day when MMOs in general get the amount of media saturation that Cataclysm has generated. If it wasn't for WOW, there would be a lot of MMO start up companies that couldn't get the venture capitalist to invest in their small fledging game..because of WOW, we get the good sandox games and see the industry grow as a whole and evolve...

Selling 3.3 million copies on opening day is good business for all MMO companies, period.

 

That's why there are just as many sandboxes as there were 10 years ago.

Yeah, I'm in a similar situation. Past two months I quit EVE out of hating to be a spaceship and started playing WoW with my friends getting stuff done for Cataclysm. I ran out of money, literally, and couldn't afford a sub or the expansion. My time ran out just before Cataclysm was released and I got bored. I decided to go for the free trial of Darkfall.

It is the most fun I've had gaming in a long time (and I haven't even PvPed yet). The world is immersive, the crafting is fun and rewarding. The quests make sense and aren't overused. The people are generally nice and very helpful. It's an all around great experience and all these people saying the game isn't are either nitpicking and just hating. (In my opion).

Some people make valid concerns, and I get that, but what else am I going to play? At least, Aventurine is actually trying in this small niche of this genre.

Meditation is not meant to curb the grind, it's meant to help newer players get skills up when they log off for the night early on in the skills. 1-25 is far cheaper than 26-50, and so on. 50+ is pretty pointless to add to, this was not a feature exactly intended for veterans. I think the problem with the system, currently, is it is a tad bit confusing a new player.

I mean to say that, because I'm new, but I do enough research to know what it's for. I don't actually use it, because I'd rather spend my gold on other things, but in theory, you can save a portion of your daily earnings and put it towards a skill you'd like to level while you sleep/work/go out.

Originally posted by Nekrataal

Originally posted by luciusETRUR

How can a world be immersive without full-loot PvP?

 That actually made me lol... serious or not. XD

I'm being half-serious. There are sometimes when I feel immersed in a world without full-loot PvP. Namely, Asheron's Call 2 and EverQuest.

How can a world be immersive without full-loot PvP?

Bring back the old Norrath as in EQ classic during the it's prime and I'll buy that.

Who cares about Dragon Age of Mass Effect! A new Elder Scrolls.. Jesus! My money is considered spent!

Originally posted by rebelhero1

It would have to sell like 500 million copies to compete with the MONEY Blizzard makes from WoW. That's all that really matters.

 

 

You must understand, even if by some miracle it DID out sell WoW, it'd have to make more money for that to even be partially relevant to the grand scheme of things.

 

That said, it'd have to be a LOT of money for others to start following suit, because they don't want to risk a loss just because GW2 competed well.

If GW2 actually sold 10 million copies of their game, that would mean something. People would care. It might not be WoW money, but who has actually come close?

Originally posted by aovannor

The questing, style and theme in WoW is what interested most people, but what gets them to stay in the end game raiding. Most expansion focus should have been on that.. instead millions of people have just been convinced to grind to max level 'again'. They put in all this lore and the quests.. yes, nice linear story.. most won't read it really, they will just rush through it, have moderate fun, then complain the end game is pretty much the same.. leave.. and come back to grind again on the next expansion.

 

Now, WoW is good. I respect it. The devs are geniuses. They have done almost the opposite of expanding their game and everyone is loving it, for now. Well done.

I've read quotes from Blizzard that this was "like two expansions and nearly 6 months more than planned". To be honest, they wanted people to get max level as fast as possible, and they wanted to revamp the leveling to streamline it and flow it, so it would be fresh for veterans and better for newbies.

Once you hit 85, there is one raid. 1.0-1.3 there was only one raid. 2.0 - 2.1 there was only one raid. 3.0-3.2 there was only one raid. You understand? There has always been quite a bit of 5-mans, as there is in Cataclysm right now, and one raid and later patches would supplement the game with further raids. They would also add single-raid boss encounters like Onyxia and world bosses.

To say that you can justify that this expansion has a lack of content is really being ignorant of how any other expansion has been done. Also, of course they'll run through the content, why do you think Blizzard has made leveling easier and easier? That's what they did at launch in 2004, they took the EQ experience and loved the raiding and wanted others to join in.

Look at how they business.. and maybe you will understand.

Originally posted by denshing

<mod edit>

Before WoW what was there?

EQ, EQ2, DAoC, UO, AC, AC2 and SB? Which of those had major success.. EQ, DAoC and UO at the point WoW was released? What sandbox/old-styled  MMOs are out today? Darkfall and EVE? With Dawntide in the works? Maybe a few others? The genre you speak of isn't ruined, it's clouded with gear-grinding MMOs, you just have to look and appreciate what games there are to play. None are perfect, but WoW didn't ruin the genre it only expanded it.

Originally posted by Korithian

 They seem to have taken the WoW graphics model and thought thats the way to do it. What seems to have escaped their notice is that WoW is 6 years old, its unlikely Blizzard would opt to have the same cartoonish graphics again if they brought wow out this year.

So far EA or BW or LA whoever is responsible for the decisions on this game seem to rely too heavily on the names involved and not enough on the game. Which didn't work for WAR and it seems unlikely it will work for ToR.

The reasoning behind the cartoonish graphics over realistic ones (which WoW was more realistic looking in early alpha) was it would look better in the long-run, it would far better as a presentable game as a cartoon five years after release. They were right, it ran better on machines back then and it still runs awesome today.

To think they would change this... is ignorance.

I voted AoC. While, I will most likely never play again, I did play the expansion and it's far better than launch was. It's far better than it was last year. Rise of the Godslayer was only good for the game's quality, it just took a different path than I would have liked.

Blizzard doesn't just "steal ideas" from other companies. They take ideas and features in other games and implement in their own flavor. They revolutionize features already implemented, which has been the case with every game they have made pretty much.

However, revamping an entire world into a whole new game, leveling experience and lore advancement is really unprecedented. It isn't just a recoloring, they changed the zones and changed the instances so the game flowed better.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by jaxsundane

I agree with you one hundred percent, especially in that it often boils down to really just "sandbox vs. themepark".  And it's crazy because my experience is that in any game on the market if I chose to be some kind of business tycoon with maxed out crafting and a surplus of goods to sell there is nothing precluding me from doing this, if I want to be a healer who has never swung a sword in my life I can still do it.  If one chooses to not engage in any of the developer provided content and simply advance their character through "typical" means that is also possible and in all honestly plays about as well as it does in many sandbox games (imho).

Max crafting without ever swinging a sword? I need you to show me how that's even remotely reasonably doable in games like LOTRO and WOW. In UO, AC or EVE? Sure. Your typical themepark MMO?  I doubt you'd be able to relay any process where you weren't actively working against the design of the game continuously to do it (ex: xp leeching).

 

To that end, could you link me to an article, news item, blog or armoury page of a WOW character (out of the 50-100 million people that have played WOW over the past 6 years) that has max crafting without ever killing a mob? I'm curious how they did it.

I thought one raised their level by simply crafting in lotro? Are there quests that require the crafter to fight? If so that's a shame.

Well, you're going to need to make gold or farm the materials, which would most likely involve combat.

In any case, I think it's worth saying that Themepark games are for those with less time and sandbox should be played when have too much free time. I honestly would play a sandbox game if only I could find one I could immerse myself in. EVE just didn't work for me, and I'm thinking of trying out DFO whenever I get bored of Cataclysm.

Originally posted by Apocalypseo

WAR failed only because it was not Warhammer 40k. Nobody cares about the Warhammer fantasy version. You'd be surprised how many 40k fans there are. Purge, cleanse, kill. That's why we care.

How can you say no one cares about Warhammer? Are there books in stores because they just put books that don't sell on their shelves? Did Warhammer get an MMO and other games because they don't sell? Does Black Library publish books that don't sell?

I understand that 40K is more popular than Warhammer when it comes to sales of books and the amount of content published. I like 40K more myself, too. However, this is a 40K MMO and not tabletop, not literature. It is a different animal.

Edit: With that said, I am definitely awaiting the release of Dark Millenium. Nothing more than to play as the Imperium of Man to excite me. I have WoW, Warhammer Online and maybe if a sandbox title worth a damn releases between now and then to fill the void.

I was going to play this game until the fatigue system was announced. Nope, can't do it. Good thing I got into EVE a week ago.

Originally posted by Karmakazi

Sandboxes ideally make the best games. However, there has yet to be a decent sandbox made yet unfortunately. A select few were okay but plagued with bugs that ruined it for most people.

I'm pretty sure EVE Online has over 250,000 subscribers? 40,000 concurrent on average?

Comparing Blizzard to Mythic is silly. Mythic was working on something else before EA bought them, and changed to Warhammer after EA helped them get the licensing. Mythic is a section of EA and at the whim of the powers that be, matter-of-fact, EA took the controls from Mythic and gave them to BioWare.

Blizzard on the other hand has made such titles as Warcraft, Warcraft II, Warcraft III, StarCraft, StarCraft II, Diablo, Diablo II and World of Warcraft. Did I mention each of these titles (except Warcraft) were best-sellers? Did I also mention that Vivendi Universal exerts NO authority over Blizzard?

Blizzard has a time table set by themselves, and is willing to cancel games in the middle of development because of this. There are no money issues, there are no corporate issues. Blizzard makes what they want and when they want. Plain and Simple.

No comparison.

Originally posted by Rocketeer

Originally posted by Shazzel
Some people wont spend money on games, a friend of mine is that way. Even if he has a pocket full of cash he wont drop a dime for a video game. I'm sort of in the middle I don't mind paying for something I like.. However after DDO I dont want to invest in LOTR. Basicly I liked DDO while leveling, but once I hit endgame the raiding was terrible+boring+lame imo... so I wasted like 60$ on a game I ended up not liking. So while I have no doubt LOTR might be fun 1-64, at 65 when the game really begins will I like it or will I regret spending a dime, even a minor 8$?

Personally i would regret grinding for hundreds of hours to get everything more that i would regret spending some bucks, but yeah my cousin is the same, he doesn't even understand that grinding is a negative word or concept. It all just playing for him, he doesn't care wether he is doing quests with a purpose or just bashing the same mobs over and over ...

Grinding isn't negative, it's a mode of playing. I enjoy grining, a lot actually.

I have an account from release, however I see no where to upgrade my account to RotGS.. all I can seem to find is to get AoC + RotGS.. and they are all saying I must make a new account to use it.