Originally posted by Goatgod76

One of the things that kind of makes me laugh though is the fact that one of the main goals of companies making MMO's is to make money. To make that money, they want to keep people playing their MMO as long as possible, especially since the customer is paying a monthly fee to play it.

 

Yet, they make things SO EASY that a player can blow through the content in a month, maybe a bit longer. Then the player gets bored and moves on, defeating the goal they were trying for, or the player sits and complains relentlessly for more content or the lack of content until they give up and move on. Or the company hurries and throws some content out there that satisfies the customer for maybe a few weeks longer until their is the same outcome of complaint again anyways, or then they complain when it's buggy, incomplete, etc and get frustrated and move on and continue the vicious cycle of complaint.

 

There is just no satisfying the MMO community these days. Either you have the above scenario happen, or you have the old school players (Such as myself) pleading for some challenge again, and some of the old length to the MMO journey, which may or may not have to include SOME grind and/or timesink (Which I say if incorporated right can STILL be made fun), and the newer crowd complains that they don't want that because they don't want to have to invest time and some sweat into their gaming experience. Which then leads the developer's to satisfying the majority new age crowd with their design, until the above scenario happens. And they alienate the crowd that kept MMO's going (Us old schooler's) up until WoW came along and altered the MMO genre (Somewhat for the better, but more so for the worse community-wise and expectations-wise).

There is one thing I definitely agree with the "newer" mmorg players, and that is, I HATE grinding. Sitting there plinking on virtual critters level after level just isn't fun. Instead of lowering xp or adding more grind back in, they need to broaden what other activities can be done in the game world that players would also find satisfying. Things that add other benefits than just XP.. maybe more opportunities for making money.... or acquiring items.... maybe benie things that don't give a direct advantage, but make playing the game more interesting or fun.

I also don't have the time to spend hours raiding, so maybe whatever these other things would be would broaden at higher levels.

Things about early EQ that was kinda cool: people could actually make money crafting armor, since armor was extremely expensive and hard to get a hold of; the terrain was so hostile, that people would offer to escort people from one side of the continent to the other, and because of distribution of goods, there was active trade between the opposite sides of the continent, fueled by people basically running trade caravans.

I don't feel it has to be done that way, making everything so dang hard, but it'd be nice to give players more activities to participate in, like trading, politics, etc... stuff like what was supposed to be offered in Vanguard, but was never really implimented (and certainly not implimented well).
 

Originally posted by nate1980

It is more about the players. I used to play several hours straight in dungeon crawls or RvR in DAoC. While I admit that stuff was a blast, probably more fun than I've had since, I just don't have that time anymore. I don't think it's even ethical for a company to design content that lasts more than 3 hours. This is because there's a whole lot of neglect going on when you're sitting in a chair for longer than that, whether it be neglecting yourself (sleep, eating, hygiene) or others (kids, spouses, friends, school, work). I actually think that's the next thing to go in this genre: Raiding.

While I think WoW is getting it right by allowing raids to be saved to the raid group for a week, players aren't taking advantage of it. Instead of doing the healthy thing, making raid runs 2-3 hours per run, they're making them last until completion. I recently went back to WoW after getting geared out from Naxx. I was hoping to start Ulduar and have it done before the Lich Kings raid came out, but my guild raided from 10pm-2am, which usually meant they got started at 11pm, and ended after 2-3am. That just doesn't fly with me, since I have to be up in the mornings. After you try several guilds and then settle on one where you have friends, it's not really feasible to leave one raid group and find another with times that cater to you. Especially when the majority of the community shows a trend of raiding 6 hours at a time. So I left.

This is why I now don't mind quest-based, solo-oriented games, because at least I can play those without having to commit more than 3 hours at a time. A MMO with a good story that can be done solo, that also has some group content is enough of a MMO to me. It's okay to have raids in the game, but when the majority of the story or quality content is designed for that, no thanks. It's an aged feature and it's next on the chopping block.

Probably the best we can hope for now is to play games that we like (or at least tolerate), and just try to get into (or start) a guild of similar-thinking people. For me, I don't mind that the time sinks are largely over, I mainly miss the atmosphere which was largely player created... and I'm probably just SOL there other than what can be generated in guild.

Originally posted by Morv

Originally posted by Gravarg

The new generation of MMORPGs (if you want to call them that) are really nothing more than single player RPGs that you play online, with little or no interatction with anyone else.  During my time in WoW, AoC, War, Eve, etc. I hardly ever talked to anyone outside my guild or friend list.  Likewise, noone ever talked to me.  In the old days of UO, DAoC, and EQ1, everyone talked to everyone.

 

Isn't that the truth? There was actual real social interaction and cooperation. Not the drum beat of consistent repetition.

They still talk, but now it's hormone driven kiddie drivel. What I miss the the RP. I remember when the troll players would talk like trolls etc. The players actually helped create the atmosphere of the game. But remember back then, you HAD to be at least 18 to play. The only option to pay was a credit card, and if the player was under 18, they had to have parental consent.

The reason WoW got so popular so fast was it was made for kids and appealed to kids. There was a huge market there that the existing MMORGs only barely tolerated. Now I hear parents talk about how mature their 8 year old is and how well "little johny" does in the game. Honestly, with some of the adult conversation that happens in the games, I really don't want to think of "little johny" being exposed to that, AND it also means the game is made so simple, even an 8 year old can play? PAHLEASE!!

For those that complain about the old mmorgs, how hard they were, etc; the simple answer is, they weren't made for you, they were made for adults. The idea wasn't to rush to the top level as fast as possible, it was to escape for a few hours from the realities of adult life.

I think it could be as lu 47 is out, and 48 will be adding guild halls and shoring some stuff up. makes sense to do house cleaning before adding something new.

several points: The faction quests are being corrected as we speak. Actually, between Domino and Rothgar, they have being doing a TON of work to improve the mechanics of the game. The game is so huge, that not all of it can be tackled at one time. That's why you see targeted areas improved. If you spent the time looking on the forums, you'd see what is coming up, and that "adding a chapter" into the basic story is what is coming down the pipes.

Every year, during the summer, they have a free period for inactive accounts. This is actually the 2nd free play period I've been through (I'd have had 3, but the first time I quit, I hadn't been away long enough to be included). This may be unusual for a company to do, but it's a great marketing strategy. I can come back, play around a bit with what is changed, and decide to stay or leave, and it didn't cost me anything to do so but my time.

I'm glad they gave me 2 months this time with all expansions enabled, as it gave me a chance to really look around and become involved with the people that play, want to be in a guild again, and more fully appreciate the differences from the new expansions. Sure, not everyone that played during the free period stayed, but I talk to people all the time on there that are returning veterans that liked what they saw and decided to subscribe again.

I'm kinda curious about your quest experience as there are new quests being added all the time. In fact, domino is very active on test, and gives players quests to test out there quite frequently. Certainly a lot better than some games I've played that had 1 or 2 quests a level, EQ2 has so many quests that you're very likely to wind up with a bunch of grey quests as leveling can happen so readily, especially if you decide to bang around in a dungeon for xp (and heck, there's quests in those too if you want to bother with them).

EQ2 is a work in progress, it's going to be that way for the rest of it's existance. Players talk like all they have to do is keep looking and they'll finally find the perfect game out there. Therefore they put down EQ2 because there's something being worked on, or something needs work on. I'm actually glad this is a game that's constantly being worked on, because if it was still the same game at launch, I wouldn't play it. Because there HAVE been changes (and more recently really smart ones) I've decided to come back and give it another go.

If you're looking for the "one perfect game", you're never going to find it unless you build it yourself. And don't be surprised if you're the only one that plays it.

For those that say the servers are dead, I find it quite interesting no servers are named. I'm on Black borrow, and though it's quieter during the early hours weekdays, there are still people there. People looking for groups, looking to complete heritage quest. In fact, I can usually count on a good 6 or so people in the guild I'm in to be online in the mornings with me.

Weekends can be a bit crowded, and though it's certainly not the population from early eq2 (maybe this is what people are comparing eq2 now to?), I certainly don't find it dead.

Originally posted by fozzie22

...

It took valuable time away from getting the rest of the game right thats how it made it dire,apart from the endless boring quests there was in there (this is coming from a quester with the best part of 2000 under his belt on my main toon) there was little to no variety in them,the ridulus faction grinding where you could kill one faction while doing thier quests at the same time..it was messy and still is dress it up any way you want ROK was bad for the game..i dont think they've had such a promo after the other xpacs have they? no they didnt,they had something great with EOF and missed the goalposts so much with ROK its taken the dev the best part of a year to sort it out.

 ...

LOL that's an interesting scheme to play for free  Viggario, since I'm betting people didn't know about the invite promo.

You can always get a 15 day free trial of EQ2. With the promo, the person getting the email addresses gets to play for free up to a certain amount of months.

Edit: I'm really surprised anyone is willing to put out there email address like that. I don't have that kinda trust.

If you're looking for tradeskill guides, there's 2 places I'd refer to:

EQ Traders Corner

eq2.eqtraders.com

and EQ Players Tradskill Forums (listed link below)

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/forums/show.m?forum_id=2588

it has a sticky named: FAQ and Guide Links  (listed link below)

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=347090

At the top of this guides listed is this link: EQ2Traders Guides Page Check here first, there's too many to link!

http://eq2.eqtraders.com/articles/article_page.php?article=g5&menustr=040000000000

That link will probably give you more info than you'll ever need in how to tradeskill. Now, as far as making money in game, anything tradeskill (until rather high levels) is probably not going to realize much return. Most likely areas for generating funds are selling item drops from the critter you kill and spell/skill upgrades (adept 1 and Master 1 drops). You might also get some money from finding harvesting rares (rare components to make tradeskilling items), however, this can also be a tedious task (and probably not recommended for people that are truly new to the game.

Originally posted by Miustus

...

only gripe with that forum link you posted is the fact that the stickies lack any sort of tradeskill guide. I'm now researching that.

 ...

well HeavySigh, I got real curious with eq2i.com DID say about Fury if it wasn't a priest class since I have a Fury character in my stable.

Quote:

"A Fury is one of the Cleric types."

Incorrect.  Use the Wiki link in the article; do some research; don't mislead the readers.

Seriously, please don't just throw quotes at the readers without checking if they are in any way accurate.

In eq2i.com under Classes/Priest/Fury it says this:

"Those who seek to harness the feral and destructive forces of nature will find the Fury to be a suitable profession. Although the Fury conjures his power from nature?s ferocity and is a druid of predation and vengeance, he can play a vital support role in the party by providing magical healing and protection. The Fury can enhance his allies' physical attributes and abilities in combat, and bring down destructive forces upon his enemies." [bolded portion to emphasize Fury's role in groups]

Though that's not entirely clearly a cleric type, that's what a Fury is (even if some people would like to believe they are DPS LOL).  In fact, this is becoming a problem in some group situations that the players built their Fury for DPS instead of heals because they didn't recognize that a Fury is a healer, and in a group would be expected to HEAL and not DPS.

It seems there is still a lot of angst for SOE and EQ2 after all this time. As for Daniel's original post, maybe a fresh look IS what's needed.

I've been a veteran of EQ2, and before it, EQ1 for a total of over 9 years. I'm very glad that the early days of EQ2 are gone as it was essentially the same game as EQ1 with some minor alterations and fresh make up. EQ1 was way too much work, and early EQ2 wasn't really any better. Yes some of the devs have made really big changes that often had more negative impact than positive. Yes, the original classes were more unique with more pronounced strengths and weaknesses.

If you really want to blame anyone for the watering down of the classes, blame the PvP kiddy core as it was cappitulation to that crowd that created the blandishments (ie it wasn't "fair" that some classes did better in  PvP than others, yadda yadda).

SOE caters to a wide age group range in it's games; from those that shouldn't be playing it at all (but their parents still let them) to some people in their retirement years. So there are always going to be people that aren't satisfied with the game and the changes made to it. That's the same with any game (if you liked the way things were done in eq1, it IS still running). I'm betting the current player demographics suggest an older player base that doesn't have time to spend 12+ hours on a single raid, or interest in endlessly grinding away on the same critters. I certainly am not interested in either of those things, and many of the people I play with appreciate being able to do a tour of Deathfist Citadel etc in a couple of hours with 4 people instead of 2 full groups in 6+ hours. They have jobs, kids, relationships, other things that take their time besides just sitting in front of a computer all day and night.

2 instrumental devs to note are Rothgar and Domino. Together they have shown a dedication to the game and players to create a great experience. Because of their efforts, I have decided to return as a subscribing member after over 2 years (essentially) of absence.

The game now is significantly different enough from the original that a fresh (and therefore largely unbiased) viewpoint could be exactly what is necessary in reviewing the current EQ2. Some of you may feel that this EQ2 is more like WoW, and others, like me, will feel that the game finally recognizes a segment of the player base that has limited time and want a game that's fun and relaxing, and not yet another thing to labor at.

EQ2 (and I think EQ1) has this. Sony says the servers are quite popular and that over $1 million (if I'm remembering right) changed hands last year for ingame characters and coin, etc. Evidently it's so popular that there are now 2 servers for EQ2 just for this. *grin* Personally, I'm a cheap SOB and not about to hand out real, hard-earned cash for stuff in a game I'm already paying just to play.

Originally posted by VMaxxx

If they want to farm gold without using exploits that ruin the economy then fine, its the hack and spam gold farming crap I hate.  The fraud and rip off that you _know_ is going to happen during a transaction.

If they're going to do this it aught to be exploit free, sanctioned and verified via a game providers method (to prevent theft and fraud), and not spammed in the game every few minutes.  Make the services for this junk external to the game.  Even better would to be have a server seperate for those that want to play that way.  Kind of like a PVP/PVE seperation, throw in a gold farming server where people who want to fast track their toons and play with other fast trackers so they can all be miserable together.  If someone wants to play the game that way let them get their gold and buy equipment they can't use.  Let their grinding services play their game until they lose interest and quit because you know they haven't played the game really, and they missed out on stories and content.  You can identify them by being level 50 and not knowing simple chat commands, or where the mailbox is.

No  I didn't, did I. That's idiotic.

I said when you CENTER a game around stuff, then your going to get people that will do anything they can to get it, because otherwise, what's the point?