Originally posted by MarL

Im just going to cut and paste my reply from the spore customization thread.......

Spore and COH have nothing on the customization of the upcoming mmo APB. Don't believe me? Watch this VIDEO. Make sure you watch the end where they make characters out of star game designers Richard Garriott, Shigeru Miyamoto, Peter Molyneux, and Warren Spector. The video was taken off a projection screen at the game developers conference so the graphics are actually much sharper than you see.

So yes they are making MMOS with huge improvements on customization.

I watched this video and I have to say I am very VERY impressed.  This is the kind of thing I would have expected to see in development now had someone asked me in 2003.  It kind of concerns me that the advertised game is a free-to-play game, but I think the character creation alone would be fun enough.

To the last few posters:

Sure, there are going to be people who could not care less what their character looks like, but I really do.  I really don't want to play as a character if I don't like the way it looks, and fewer options just means if I see something I cant stand, there's no way to change it. 

I don't see why you can't make different kinds of armor to enhance your unique - looking character instead of using the same ole same ole armor to cover it up.  This is why many games let you toggle off your helmet too, and even with as few options as LOTRO has it has an option to use normal clothing as the graphic instead of armor.  Personally, I don't see why armor has to exist at all in an MMO other than for the look of it.  If you had the right crafting system you could add +1250 armor to your T shirt. 

As far as lag goes, lag is a part of every MMO I ever played no matter what settings, no matter what customization level.  I don't mind if the graphics are a few years older than current FPS games, to me that is expected. 

Everybody wants to have an attractive character, but this also doesn't mean there is only one way to make a beautiful character.  Why aren't there different shapes of nose for example, not just a size slider?  Roman nose, pointy nose, rounded nose, pug nose...  I bet not everyone would pick the same one.

     When WoW came out I was told not to bother trying it because it was dumbed down garbage by one of my SWG friends.  I never tried it, not because of what my friend said but because I was just not interested.  The only problem is that because it was sucessful, EVERY game that has come out is a copy of it, so there's nothing else to play. 

If you like it, super!  I am glad you found delight in your happy meal. 

     There is a void, a barren, obvious gap where there should be some newer games which provide us with not only detailed customization, but well thought-out quests, a rich immersive game world, and the freedom to enjoy that world to the fullest.

     Don't tell me that our computers can't handle 50 people in the same area with that many sliders, because my weenie laptop with 128 meg graphics card and 512 meg of ram did it back in 2003 and it ran very smoothly.

     The only thing I can think of that is a reason for this is company laziness.  Heck, I don't see why they could do it with UO, EQ, SWG, and the like a few years ago on a smaller budget but they can't do it now that they have a much larger client base to hope for. 

Originally posted by PapaLazarou

I always just hit random face in games like EQ2 or SWG but atleast I looked different from everyone else unlike in WOW and WAR where you all look the same. the thing I really love about SWG though is being able to customize your character once in the game which is really kool because I can just suddenly make myself really fat if I wanted.

Hehe.. i knew people who did this.  They would roleplay that their character had a bout of depression and started eating too many sweets.  When they were finished they would "loose" the weight.

trancejeremy:  There should be a range of games though.  Just because McDonalds is successful doesn't mean Olive Garden won't be.  I might add that I would be willing to pay a slightly higher sub fee for a higher quality game, but it seems the MMO developers are convinced that everyone only wants greasy cheeseburger game content and a side of fries character.

Originally posted by Death1942

yeah it has been scaled back quite a bit.  i think its a sign of the "new" players that are coming through.  those that have never read a decent book, played an RPG or played enough games to appreciate customisation.  a concern is i dont see it getting any better

It is sooo unfortunate!  I know I care more than some people about the way my character looks, but in older games I really felt like my character was an extension of ME, like they fulfilled a part of my personality that I didn't express in day to day life.  (Don't laugh!)  Now they have become "toons".  They have more of a generic, plasticized feel with no flexibility.  I keep waiting for a game that will bring it back, but I may be waiting a very long time.

edit - Noggin, in my eyes this also is a flaw.  I don't want everyone running around in the same armor look either, and SWG did not help that at all.  The clothes were good though.

I used most sliders, actually.

you would be surprised how much difference even a slight adjustment will make.

First let me say my first MMO was Star Wars Galaxies in 2003. Now that you know where I come from you may better understand my post.

Why can developers no longer give us options?

Character creation comparison chart:

In SWG in 2003 (5 years ago) here were examples of customization sliders and options:

Height
Age
Weight
Muscle Mass
Bust Size (Chest Size for male avatars)
Freckle Sliders
Eyebrow Color
Eye Makeup Slider
Eye Makeup Color Selection
Lip Color Selection
Skin Color
Eye Size
Eye Slant
Eye Shape
Nose Protrusion
Nose Length
Nose Width
Mouth Width
Lip Thickness
Chin Protrusion
Jaw Width
Ear Size
Eye Color Selection
Hairdo Options
Facial Hair Options

and that was just for the humans…

In EQ2, which I believe came out in 2004 here were the options

Height
Age
Skin Color
Hair Color
Hair Highlight Color
Hairdo
Facial Hair
Eye Color
Eye Slant
Eyebrow Height
Eyebrow Angle
Eyebrow Curve
Ear Size
Ear Height
Cheek Fullness
Cheekbone Height
Chin Thickness
Chin Length
Chin Protrusion
Underwear Color (they changed this at some point)
Nose Size (there may have been several options here I don’t remember)
Lip Size (same)

again this is for humans… barbarians had woad options and woodelves had tatoos

Now look at what we can change:

LOTRO: 2007
Body Width
Choose between half a dozen preset heads
Skin Color
Hair Color
Hairdo
Choose between wrinkles/freckles/mole/scar
Eye Color
Optional Eye Wrinkles/Tiaras for elves

WAR: 2008
Skin color
Hairdo
Hair Color
Scars/Tiaras/Tatoos
Preset Heads
Eye Color

Is it just me, or do I observe development going BACKWARDS? *pulls out magnifying glass and deerstalker hat*

Don’t get me wrong, I am going to sub to WAR, and LOTRO was pretty fun, but why don’t they make ‘em like they used to?
 

I have to say, I have been following Mortal for a while now.  It is still in the phase that everyone keeps making suggestions about things we don't know yet so a lot of creative ideas pop up, but there's lots to be done before it makes its way to beta testing.  I check the site once in a while to see if anything new pops up.

I disagreed with Obama a lot on this survey.

There were some questions that I wish there was another option, especially "which is more important, developing alternate fuel or protecting the environment?"  I would say BOTH!  Sadly, that answer was not on the list, so again, I had to disagree with Obama.

I could tell that the questions were slanted, but I probably would have disagreed with Obama a lot even had they been less biased.  I mean, honestly - if you want to pay Uncle Sam more money feel free to write an extra check out of the kindess of your heart.

I would only do it in a beta to test different classes at max level.

I don't like grinding, but I don't want to skip content.  My ideal MMO would be one without levels, so content would be available to everyone at any point.  In that case it might be fun to skip the grind, but only if you knew how to play the class once you got there. 

hehe i'll tradeja my SE for your CE!  Even pay for it!

Sorry to chuckle, I know you are upset.  I get the invalid error too but I bought the SE so who knows if it is an error or just keeping me from dowloading in front of the CE crowd.

the head start codes are different from the beta codes.

If you are re-entering the beta codes instead of the head start codes, they will be invalid.  If that is not the case, then idk.

I just applied!

No way is this guy serious.  He is mocking all the haters, that has GOT to be it.

It's a new game.  They may add additional features later on, but the basic game structure is very fun as it stands.  I would like housing too but I would take this game over LOTRO which has housing and dances (I am also female).

I think it would be interesting to see what we would do in MMORPGs besides kill mobs, so sure, I'll vote for other things.

Of course you know, people would say that Hello Kitty Online and The Sims would be all you'd get from something like this.  You would have to keep people's interest using mini games and crafting.

Let's say that most MMOs are action genre.  What would they be like if they were comedy?  How about a romance MMO?  Would you play something that was purely historical, like you were roleplaying in a polite society of the 1870s?  How about a paranormal MMO?  Yes I know SciFi and Fantasy are done over and over so we won't go there. 

I honestly dont think very many people would play such a game, mostly because they wouldn't give it a chance.  What do you think?

Would you play Mad Science Online?..... nah.. me neither.

Originally posted by ironore

Well, I wasn't going to say anything.  I was just like, oh, there's that ambiguous term again, but then VPellen stated my thoughts and charlizd illustrated the point perfectly.

Perhaps we should hammer this out, because this is after all the Developer's Corner as has been said.  With all the discussion that goes on I think we should have a pretty good understanding of the MMO genre in a broad, categorical sense and so I propose that we all post our definition of a sandbox game, hash it out for a bit, distill it down to some basics, give them a working designation, organize them on a continuum and then create a poll to see the numbers of those that are thinking along the same lines.

Just think, we will be doing a great service for mankind and further facilitating our discussion of the topic.

I will post some specific thoughts shortly.

What say ye?

I just thought about posting a related thread on these boards to define a sandbox game.

Shall we do this here or on another thread?

where else would I post it?

I kind of wondered too, but it seemed to fit better here than in General Discussion.  I just wanted to find out whether or not people reacted positively or negatively to the word "sandbox" in reference to MMO games.  It seems that the Dev's Corner traffic is amicable.

I realize that everyone's idea of a "sandbox" will be different, but since a lot of people regard "sandbox" as positive, I wonder why there arent any... shall we say "established" MMORPG companies developing something and referring to it as a "sandbox". 

Sure, there's Earthrise and Fallen Earth and Darkfall and Mortal Online but they all seem to be inexperienced companies.  I'm not saying that that's BAD, just that they aren't as mainstream.

In most games, crafting is very boring to level.  That said, there are some of us who are creators in our core being and cannot NOT craft.  In SWG it was very challenging and fun to craft but hard to find the perfect resources.  In EQ2 it was less challenging, but more useful at lower levels.  In LOTRO I really wanted to craft but it was too expensive to get the materials.  In Vanguard I wanted to throw the keyboard out the window because you had to conserve action points and would sometimes end up with worthless scrap instead of an item.  From what I can tell, WAR has very limited crafting, but I will probably try it all the same.

well my fireballs singe them easier that way, so i dont mind!

I really really hope Darkfall does well.  That said, I am not planning on playing at launch unless there's 99% positive feedback after the NDA drops, or I get to test the game myself.  There have just been too many games that dont deliver.  Darkfall promises a LOT, so I am still kind of skeptical.