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All Posts by mrjimorg

All Posts by mrjimorg

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16 posts found
Originally posted by drakaena
...Communities beging to govern themselves - players make a name based on their in game deeds.
I just think most MMO gamers never played in a true sandbox and have this misguided idea that PvPers are of the WoW variety. Kill without recourse and if killed spawn back up and do it again..
That's not how it works in a functioning online community

This just reminds me of the ludicrous quote I read last time I played WoW (2+ years ago) - "Being nice to people in a group will get you invited back". Really? Everyone just clicks the 'find a group' button and presto! - they're in a group. The only way someone is going to get a reputation is if they play sooooo much that they become a constant presence in the game for a lot of people. More than likely the griefer will kill a bunch of people then move on to another game or character.

Let's make it simple- you want to gank people to make yourself feel superior to others. We don't like some little kid stabbing us in the back when were fighting some epic boss. So how about this....

We should create an MMO with fake players using ai who will run around acting stupid so you can gank them and get your jollies. You can teabag them, they'll use their ai to send you hateful tells about how you ruined their day, and you can feel like you've done your share to make the world a worse place.

As for games focused on fair-fight pvp? It's called League of Legends. Step on up and watch me burn you! C'mon Tibbers

It boils down to this:

If you like EQ, why not just play EQ? It's because you want EQ, but with some 'improvements'. However, any improvement that you suggest is debatable:

"I want better graphics" - Yea, Sony has revamped old zones and the new ones are nicer looking. Did you want to go with more realistic graphics or stylized? Whichever answer you choose is WRONG according to many people out there who will say that you've failed to create this 'new' eq.

"I want to improve the quest system" - Need I go into all the attempts to create better ones? They're worse which is why we want to go back to EQ. Of course, if you don't improve the quest system you have a bigger problem- EQ was played out of the Allakhazams website search box- that's an immersion breaker. You can come up with better ideas, but any system you come up with have its detractors. 

 

These are just 2 potential 'improvements'. I'm curious what else you want to change. If it isn't a lot, then just play EQ.

1. Close your eyes and image what you look like in a fantasy world. Think also about what you want other people to look like - especially women. Now look through the vanguard screenshots and FFXIV screenshot. In Vanguard, the guys look uninspiring and the women look homely. In FFXIV i want to be that guy, and be with that girl.

It may be petty, but it is actually important for immersion

 

As for Vanguard in general:

2. I tried Vanguard online 2 weeks ago (after SOE Live). Quests weren't interesting. After having played wow until I couldn't stand it any longer, Vanguard was just more of the same "Here's an excuse to kill n of creature xyz. Come back and get loot y". I can't do that any more. I don't know if I'll ever be able to again.

3. Tradeskilling was better than most in Vanguard, but it was still all about running out to harvest a pile of resources to make a bunch of items that nobody ever wanted.

 

In review, Vanguard is everything that an MMO should have been 8 years ago, but the world has moved on.

PvP Boss
General Discussion « EverQuest Next
8/21/13 12:01:09 PM

Do you guys think this concept would work in EQNext?

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/mrjimorg/082013/25443_New-PvP-Concept

I'm a bit concerned about the tradeskilling- specifically the lack of discussion of them. I don't want tradeskills to be a tacked-on system that is rushed into place to satisfy a check-mark of required features for an MMO. Tradeskilling can really add to a game if it becomes an alternative to adventuring. No matter how good the adventuring is, people will eventually want to do something different, and tradeskilling can provide this alternative- if done right.

I think this presents an opportunity for SOE to try something really different. Instead of assigning one of their current developers, or hiring a new one to invent a tradeskill system, I think they should open it up to the community. This could be done in 2 (overlapping) stages-

Stage 1 - Ask the players to create videos or concept screenshots and/or descriptions that would present what we think tradeskilling would be like. These should be specific and detailed (Not "It should be awesome"). They could use pieces from other peoples proposals, thus helping to refine existing ideas.

Stage 2 - Involve the horde of developers who've always wanted to work on an MMO by creating an open-source portal for development- with several git repos for alternative projects. Various people could submit changelists which would be considered for acceptance to various branches by a Sony developer who would be responsible for judging the validity of these patches. As these projects become refined, Sony can choose one to be included into EQNext.

In addition, Sony would need to provide the community with artistic resources and a development environment which would eventually be used integrate the tradeskill system into EQ Next. This may be an API which could be in a scripting language or C/C++ and which provides interactions such at timer ticks and functionality such as createWindow.

 

I think you've brought up a valid concern. However, like many other people here I think you're conclusion that this is a fatal unsolvable issue is a bit premature. Making a game is more like throwing a pot than it is building a skyscraper- you need to throw something out there, play it, figure out what worked and what didn't, modify, play it again, repeat. You can't plan it ahead of time because there is no correct formula for 'fun'. While this issue is something they will have to address I'm sure that they have plans - some which will not work, some that might. They will adjust their strategy, and in the end they will come up with a solution. Meanwhile, they will come across many other daunting issues that will dwarf even this that we haven't even considered but would seen obvious in retrospect.

I would say "Have some faith", but this is the same company that created the SW:NGE disaster. In the end, EQNext will definitely shake up an industry that needs some rattling. You mentioned that you're tired of the same ol' thing. This will be different, and even if you don't like it, I hope it will bring about something else more to your taste.

Storyline? You click on the ! guy, then click <Accept>, then look on your map for the blob. They like to fool themselves into believing that they're writing great stories that we clamor for, but in truth very few people read anything- and they shouldn't. 1- The stories suck, and 2- This is a game, therefore it should be interactive, therefore not predestined. The story should be around the player and what he does or chooses or achieves or fails to achieve.

However, if you are going to create a story, let me introduce you to storytelling 101 - Exposition, Rising Action, Climax, Falling Action, Resolution. Instead we have 25 stories all happening at the same time in the same area, many are unrelated to each other, all of which are pathetic excuses to "go kill 12 of xyz, then come back for some junk". Where is the build-up for the truely epic fight? Where is the satisfaction of having made a difference? I'm done with the crap they keep shoveling our way.

The pvp vs pve debate has raged on for 44 pages, but in reality I think we all want the same thing - a challenge. The PvP advocates say that PvE is boring and monotonous because in pretty much all the games it has become so. This is because Blizzard wanted MMO's to appeal to the dumb masses, and made a lot of money doing so (and thus set the standard from which all else followed). PvE advocates are complaining because so much PvP is frustrating because you're playing against people with 'series 7 elite pvp gear with super epic enchanged gems' which makes them immune to anything you can throw at them. This results in grinding pvp so you can have equivolent gear so you can START competing.

The original Everquest was awesome because it was challenging. The creatures were tough - I couldn't ever solo equal level mobs with my cleric. People grouped because we had to, and even in a group things quite often went bad. 

The other thing that Everquest did right is was that if things did go bad, there was consequences to your failure, which made it exciting. You actually had risk vs rewards. Think of it like this- you went to Vegas, and every time you played you won a little bit of money. Sounds great, right? So, you move there any play every day, and every day you end up ahead- just a little. It's called being a dealer. It's not fun- it's a soul crushing job. People go to Vegas because there can be big payouts and the is a risk of loosing gives us that adrenaline rush.

I like minecraft. I thought it was because I liked to build things, but in reality I know that it's because of the adrenaline that I get from splunking. If I survive I get some iron, maybe some diamonds. If I fail my stuff will likely rot at the bottom of cave. So, when I turn around and see a creeper I jump! In wow, the last time I did (once in the last year) it was just a petty annoyance, like a fly buzzing around my ear. My thoughts were something to the effect of "I don't know why they bother fighting back, I'm going to kill them either way. In EQ when I died, my thoughts were "I took too many risks, need to rethink that one"

Congrats to your team! I'm happy to have been one of the last pledges that pushed it over.

MMO's designers burden themselves with designing 2 games - the leveling game and the endgame. If they fail at either one then their game will not stand the test of time. If they want to succeed, then they need to focus on just the endgame and eliminate the leveling game. If they can keep people engaged in the endgame, then they don't need the leveling game. If they can't, they lost anyways. By eliminating the leveling game they can refocus their devs, artists and level designers on creating a great endgame instead of splitting their attention.

I wrote a blog entry about it in 2009:

http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/mrjimorg

Originally posted by Czzarre

Also, I would add that you should have a large collection of models/sprites available with the purchase. Players again can dream up a cool castle, but they cant put pixel to paper.

 

^^ This is a serious issue for many indies like myself who have a 3d engine (torque) and the skills to make it into something but loose a lot of our inspiration when we only have a handfull of inconsistantly themed models to work with.

All I have to say is

Coldain Ring Quest

Originally posted by JB47394

 


Originally posted by JGMIII
Sadly that natural playstyle/experience doesn't last forever in any mmo. Once you get to a high level you hit a zone, explore everything in said zone, complete every quest and still find yourself needing more levels before you could naturally progress into another zone. This is when the game goes sour for me.

 

Well said, and I agree with you. Levels are in the way. Many times I've wondered what a fantasy MMO would be like without levels. Just go wandering the world doing whatever quests come to hand in whatever area of the world that you're in.

The fun of doing different areas would be that they were actually different. Not in the artwork and the drops, but in the behavior of the monsters and the tasks that the NPCs asked the player characters to complete. Somebody mentioned altering the player experience without advancement. That's a reasonable next step. It would be a way to keep the game interesting without having to labor through levels before doing anything new.

It would be a rather different game. It would probably begin to involve more player skill.

I agree wholeheartedly. That's why I created a blog post about how levels ruin MMOs.

www.mmorpg.com/blogs/mrjimorg/032009/3524_Save-the-Dragons-The-case-for-an-MMO-without-levels

I'm creating this thread to share with you some of the funnest moments I've had in MMO's and to ask you yours.

1. EQ- The Coldain Ring quest. Amazing difficult and time consuming, but spawning an outright war which your guild must help with to win was really awesome.

2. EQ- Epic Quest raids- especially the last encounter for druids.

3. EQ- Grinding in Blackburrow, Karnor's Castle, PoI, and watching for TRAIN!

4. EQ- Charm fighting. Really really tough, risky, rewarding, and interesting.

5. EQ- LDoNs - each mission bringing me closer to that item that I really want, and requiring a well played group for about 2 hours.

6. EQ- Shakey scarecrow quest. Apparently this quest was for higher level chars. While playing it at a really low level I explored much of the world, found out how immense it was, snuck around soo many creatures that could kills me almost instantly, and availed the help of a few strangers.

7. EQ- Any number of zones that once you entered required you to fight your way to the exit (no escaping).

8. WoW (beta)- after finding a recipie for a mechanical squirel I decided to become an engineer so I could create this. I leveled my way through it and made one. Then I ran around with 'Stabby' thinking I was soo cool for having such a rare item. (ah ... to be newbish and nieve again)

9. Wow- learning and playing the AH to make 10k gold on a level 30. I don't think it's the game Blizzard expected for it's players, but was fun none-the-less.

Things that are missing from MMORPGS today:

1. Challenge - In EQ fighting a creature that was your level ment that you were likely to loose (unless you were twinked). In Wow and most other games today you can fight creatures several levels higher than  yourself without fear. Worst case you might have to drink a potion or run away. Even if you die its no biggie- you just run back (now at super-speed) and continue like nothing happened.

2. Quests suck - hard!  Hey devs, let me tell ya something - I don't read the quest text. I don't give a damn about every NPC in the game having some grudge against someone else. None of it matters. I don't care. You're not the next Steven King, or Ann Rice. These stories are just an excuse to give me a pethetic errand.    Here's the true story behind Wow: You are a character (race doesn't really matter) who goes around doing meaningless tasks that don't make a difference in order to get stuff that will make it easier to complete more meaningless tasks.   The true story should be more interesting than this.

            Here's some clues to a better system- if your going to have opposing factions locked in an endless struggle to defeat oneanother, they shouldn't be living together in the same cities doing the same quests! (That means you wow). In EQ the warring factions each had their own cities and quests to kill people from the other's cities. My guild was on Coldain faction and we did raids against the giants. People on giant faction wouldn't be able to get or turn in their quests because the quest-givers were dead :) Of course, in EQ turning in a quest was a big deal because it would take you hours or even days to complete one. In Wow, you have quests to deliver mugs of ale - what am I a waitress? One quest in particular required a ton of effort to complete and would cause a war to begin. You needed a good guild to fight the war and if your side won you got an amazing reward; if you failed you lost a great deal. Also, anyone on the server could come and join in on the war as well.

3. Remember, its an MMO, not MSO. If you end up playing the game alone (or with just one other person) then your not really playing an MMO. By requiring players to group to get things done you've added a player interaction element to the game that is vital. If you don't have this then the player is really playing a Massive Single Player game.

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