In my planet, people don't put the wagen in front of the bulls.

If you want to start a business and don't have funds and are pretty good at what you do, you start from the bottom without fear.

You create a small inovative game with small budget, make it cheap and people will buy and have fun playing it.

The company create an identity and trust... use the profits for bigger/expanding your IP... keep delivering a good product and eventually you will have a good loyal community on their backs.

Before they all start buying Mercedes, use that money to develop a big game... again, deliver a good product.

Cheers!!! Profit for them and fun for all of us.

Now companys want to start "crafting" MMO's before anything else and ask money from the bunch of no lifers addicteds around the web.

I'm sad at the community overall. People keep buying collectors editions for 150 euros and etcs... and keep throwing cash at this people with their eyes closed. AND NEVER LEARN.

Sad sad days we are living.

Originally posted by jayheld90

Originally posted by apocoluster
Id give it back  to Bioware.  Id also give them unlimited budget, unlimited time and stay out of their way.

i have to agree with this. the only reason both of them bombed so badly is because Lucas Arts wouldnt keep thier fingers out of it. If Bioware had gotten to do whatever it wanted, it would have been a much greater success. (as well as SWG)

Did you guys ever had a job? Worked with people with great responsabilitys and proud of their work? I think not.

Bioware signed a contract with them, they were aware of their crap. Can't really excuse anyone who signed a contract with a company that said "I want to put my fingers on it".

In worse case, Bioware bosses aren't proud of their jobs so they let anyone put their fingers on their crap.

No one responsible would let their work to be changed, spited on... etc by anyone else. Best they could do was to leave their seats.

I'm not beeing dramatic, I'm beeing completly realistic. That's what SERIOUS people do.

If you guys think the game ended the crap it did cause of EA, you guys are the biggest Bioware fanboys I ever saw.

You sell your soul to the devil and then blame the devil for it.

Not to mention that EA gave them shitloads of money, wich they wouldn't be able to make the game without it.

When you guys mature a bit more, you will know that when you are discussing about something if it is, or its not... probably it isn't.

Originally posted by Entinerint

Originally posted by Anthara

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Grumpy:

So say on a pve wow server

How do you deal with that bot that's mining all your nodes?
That's BS... if you're getting ninjaed by a bot in mining nodes you are probably afk in the same place for hours.

How do you get back that guy that kicked you right at the end of the boss fight so he could ninja the loot?
That's not possible anymore and when it did... same as other games. You grow a mature brain and enjoy life.

How do you stop the guy that trained a bunch of mobs onto you?
BS

How do you stop the guy that watches you clear a path to the named quest mob then rushes in and grabs it at the last minute for the lolz? Again, you grow a brain and stop clearing the path and play mind tricks with that guy.

How do you do the raid progression without encountering gear score nazis? You join a guild.

 

So pretty much "grow a brain."  Same thing the other side might say to the carebears.  Nice way of illustrating the OPs point.

The OP's is pointing out his criticism to the whole MMO comunity in general. And he and everybody else can't avoid falling in the same boat by cheap spiting the word "WoW" into a thread, because its considered cool this days and a sign of experience and good "taste".

I would prefer to read genuine stuff instead of the so cool trend of WoW hate this days. A game i don't play but that I know very well. Wich is not your case for sure. If it is, you are beeing biased.

Originally posted by ShakyMo
Grumpy:

So say on a pve wow server

How do you deal with that bot that's mining all your nodes?
That's BS... if you're getting ninjaed by a bot in mining nodes you are probably afk in the same place for hours.

How do you get back that guy that kicked you right at the end of the boss fight so he could ninja the loot?
That's not possible anymore and when it did... same as other games. You grow a mature brain and enjoy life.

How do you stop the guy that trained a bunch of mobs onto you?
BS

How do you stop the guy that watches you clear a path to the named quest mob then rushes in and grabs it at the last minute for the lolz? Again, you grow a brain and stop clearing the path and play mind tricks with that guy.

How do you do the raid progression without encountering gear score nazis? You join a guild.

While I agree in what the op says in most cases... I can't avoid saying that the term "wow dueling" is kinda falling into the same cheap criticism.

I don't play wow since TBC, except the first month of every expansion cause I like to check the new stuff. And I have to say, I've seen more world pvp this expansion in a couple new zones than all the ten mmo's that launched since then.

Also I fail to see any recent game with "decent" ffa pvp. No... spawn ganking lowbies in early zones with a high tune is not ffa pvp. And I doubt any hardcore pvper enjoy beeing spawn ganked 24/7 by a vet. Even for the most brave, chilled, hardcore pvper there isn't any "fun" envolved.

FFA pvp is not just free for all, you need to build something logical and organized... well planned.

That's where I believe EVE pvp wins all over the competition.

Anyway, all valid points but you couldn't avoid bringing the word "WoW" to the table wich is pretty ridiculous.

And about someone else saying he knows guys in the military that play pvp... "so they are not cowards for sure"... like if beeing in the military this days have anything to do with bravery.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Did they improve the rewards for open world PVP?

Otherwise why bother with it? Pointless killing is .....well pointless.

Do you have sex cause its fun or someone reward you in the end?

Originally posted by Rossboss

What happened to the years when game companies would just make awesome games and tell us to deal with it if we didn't like it? Like how we used to do closed beta and it actually mean something aside from "free demo!" or "early start!"

 

I'm still waiting for an MMORPG where the developers actually want to play it afterwards. And not because they have to log a certain amount of hours or because they are GMs. It would be cool to see a game where the developers and producers aren't just in it for the money. It's so sad that so many games being produced have been derailed due to people complaining that it isn't easy/hard/RPG/FPS/All of the above. It's hard for us customers to enjoy something if the creator can't enjoy it just as much.

this

This crap of blaming players for games failing its just hilarious. And the fanboys who believe in those arguments are even more ridiculous.

This guys make games, are "experts" doing so... sell milions of copys and then can't retain players.

Obviously its our fault -.-

The degree of amatourism and lack of respect for players blow away all my imagination.

Maybe when "you" guys reach my age you start to be in the people's side instead of going blind with all the fanboyism and understand that.. if games are rushed into endgame in one month ITS BECAUSE THE GAME MAKE IT POSSIBLE.

All is handed to you, fast and easy.

God bless EVE and all its fails! o7

I agree on almost everything, except the "slightly" detail about who's the fault in MMO's decline.

Yes, players are like that today but... I blame the companys.

They seem to try someone else success by removing the old school grind mmo's used to have. So, they kinda "educate" players to a rushing fast paced game. That usually ends in what we see today, mmo's reward you instantly in any activity, all is speed up without downtimes... also culminating in zero social interaction.

Gamers consume games in one month because they can.

We are all chickens in a huge feeding house, eating fat delicious corn and not stoping to chat for a little.

I remember playing L2 and farming specific mobs for hours just to craft awsome gear.. a la korean type, and we just chated a lot during that time.

Like the old downtime in wow, where we had to drink and eat and stuff to regen a bit and continue fighting. Having to move around in the world to go dungeons and stuff like that.... making social interaction possible during those "time sinks", like we love to call it these days.

Anyway, all that grind also had terri bad stuff because it was made during the time quests sucked. :)

I have to bring wow to my thinking and I'm sorry but, wow benefits from a past lore from sp games and a real identity that people liked and enjoyed exploring its lore. The open zones + travel time + downtimes in combat, helped a lot in friendly and unfriendly meetings.

WoW was very slow and had a strong social interaction I believe. All that changed over the years and mainstreamed till no end.

Now all companys want to eat from the wow pie and give us games like wow. We want something familiar to mmo's, but well done.

We want hard games and meet people in good and bad mood. Make the game slower! But more fun please. Innovate in the quests mechanics, technology, group content. We want lore well done... not 300 hours of voicovers. 

Also... the crafting in mmo's should be the main reason for open world pvp. By putting resources in open group areas for players to fight for.

Again, games are beaten in one month because players can.. is that simple. MMo's are made to be finished in one month because they want to hype it, make it pretty and fun, grab 2 million sales and thats it.

I have to stick with EVE for more time... at least I allways learn something new everytime.

Sorry about the english, and btw. This is that kind of discussion with no end. We are all politicians discussing mrpg business.

I go with what should be the main priority of all players... gameplay.

Its unacceptable the ability lag the game had/have at launch and Bioware and fanboys keept saying it was my computer etcs.

Pressing a keybind 5 times, respecting the global cooldown beetween each press of a key, avatar starting the animation each time and canceling at midle of the cast was just to much for me.

If abilitys don't work, means a lot about coding/programing... whatever.

Loading screens everywhere. And seriously. Orbital stations? Really, can someone make me a draw so I can understand the concept around it?

Dead world... no npc life, no wild life, no sounds no nothing. You could stand near a waterfall and ear no sound at all.

I enjoyed a lot of the lvling and story, but the core stuff broke all my imersion and respect for their coding and design competence.

Costumer service = Zero, non existant, or completly unprofessional.... amatours, thats wat they are.

I can deal with games that i didnt liked cause of concepts i might dislike. But terrible coding i can't stand. I understand people cant enjoy all games around, but at least make them WORK so I can try a future new game of same company.

<--- Not buying any Bioware game again ever.

...not even if its a proven wow killer, I already payed for all games they might release in the next 20 years by giving 60 euros for this piece of spited crap.

I don't understand the hate towards Blizzard at all.

Diablo 3 its an excelent game in wich i spent more hours playing than  any other single player game in the last 2 years. And  i can also play it co-ops, all seems good to me. And people still say its not worth the 60 bucks.

I'm pretty casual at any game since i have a life, job, family etc and still havent finished Inferno. I see it as a game I can come  back anytime i wish. But somehow people expect the "play" of an MMO. The same people that come to this forums everytime its posted some article related to it, saying "why is this on this forum? Its not an mmo." Yet, you play it like one and expect the longevity of one and many other etcs.

Even the hate towards WoW and its comunity, "its for 12 year old kids"...  or retards, pokemons, pandas and whatever.  Even not liking it, you guys should recognize the quality they deliver on their product, even if its not for your taste. Doesn't mean is garbage. Some might want to rethink who got 12 years old afterall.

I don't even play WoW, but i don't see the diference in having pandas or maybe, humanoids with tree heads and leafs, childs like in Tera or half naked asian avatars.

This just tells me this forum is full of haters  that doesn't  got anything else interesting in their lifes to do, besides spiting crap out of things they don't like. And people who think that playing something less popular makes them special and eventually  they become superior beeings with superior opinions.

Anyway,  my english is so terrible that I have a really hard time putting my ideas into text so I'll stop here  :)

Originally posted by x5100

People might look at me funny and stuff but I honestly think what we need is a new fantasy setting and such... Most of the modern day fantasies are rip-off tolkein's universe. A lot of people are porbably going to disagree with what I'm saying but like it or not, he was the father of the modern day fantasy setting. I think until someone puts out a new universe that's equally large and fantastic as his, we aren't going to get any good MMOs cause they dont have anything fresh to inspire their storylines, art designs and such. I'll be honest and say I couldn't care less about combat mechanics and such. Kingdoms of Amalur had amazing combat but it wasn't very good cause it lacked immersion and that's what modern day mmos seem to lack. Not cause they're poorly written(ok yea some are pretty shit), but the ideas grown kinda stale... to me at least. If an MMO is immersive enough I couldn't care less for combat or the quest hub or whatever. Guess what I'm saying is unless we find a new universive that's immersive enough, no MMO will hold the charm like older MMOs used. Even GW2 is kinda eh to me...

Exactly my thoughts...

For example SWTOR that used a diferent fantasy. But had Star Wars and we all know how future ends from the movies and wikis.

And the complete lack of immersion on its world. Since no weather, no night and day, creatures just standing in their places. I believe I didnt even ear a waterfall noise while standing right next to it.

Even WoW (ye, that boring old game) gave me an awsome moments from simple stuff like music and lights. Will never forget when I was walking around Durotar with a chill ambiance music, and then I enter Orgrimmar for the first time (no loading screens) and the sound of  drums invading my head. It was epic for me at the time.

Tbh, I want a western MMO sandbox with a massive world (no loadings screens), people building citys, saloons, breeding horses, wild life (with wolves  actually hunting other creatures etc, bandits, indians, politics, civil war, conquest. Selling goods, transporting them around big distances. No lvls, open dungeons. Just shoot  to the legs if the enemy is running, shoot to the head and permakill the enemy and get a perma nasty bounty on you head. Or just be hanged in the nearest town while other players get drunk with whiskey  made by some player, while they watch the new permadead guy in the ropes.

oh my. I should go sleep.

Originally posted by Mage_Francis

Originally posted by WildNature

Originally posted by Panthien

Originally posted by Anthara

I don't understand  why Funcom start the development of a new game instead of finishing/fixing AoC.

quite simple, they wont stop working on it, they wont stop fixing and they wont stop developing on it in the near future.

But its safe to say, Aoc has peaked and over time it will make less and less money.

A new product will have a better chance to make money. 

Also don't understand why people still buy games from companys with the record of releasing "unfinished" products.

Im trying to think of a finished mmo.. I cant think of ANY mmo that was "finished"at release.

Even worse.... life time subs and people buy.

I believe its only our fault if we keep getting this silly MMO's and get cheated... again, and again.

Many players get more time played out of a mmo then a single/multiplayer game, even before they actually start paying a sub, I dont feel cheated about that at all.

 

 

 

WAR was finished upon release. Then they catered to the people on the forums (first  no-no) and it all went to hell from there.

 

You still see them tweeting sometimes "we should have never opened up those forums."

 

This is a joke right?  Did you play war at launch?  No mmo is ever released "finiched".  That's just the nature of the beast.

That's why I wrote " "

MMO's are never  finished, but the announced features should be there at launch... and working.

I wish all the games had only server connections problems at launch instead of bad coding and missed content/features.

Hardware can be fixed, optimized, etc...  Software is going to be a very diferent nature of a beast.

Lets all hope people who buys TSW will love the game. I just wish "we" didn't fell in love so easy with the first blonde chick that blink her eye at us.

Originally posted by Blacknd

Originally posted by Anthara

I don't understand  why Funcom start the development of a new game instead of finishing/fixing AoC.

Entirely different dev teams.

- Same guys injecting the money to the development and same guys deciding if they make a new one or work on AoC.

Also don't understand why people still buy games from companys with the record of releasing "unfinished" products.

I'm buying this particular game because I tried it first and found it more than satisfactory.

- Now... that's pretty much valid.

Even worse.... life time subs and people buy.

See my above message, some people determined they would play the game long enough to justify paying for a lifetime sub.

- I personally didnt asked my wife to marry me before I met her.

I believe its only our fault if we keep getting this silly MMO's and get cheated... again, and again.

By "this silly MMO's" I assume you mean clones. This isn't one.

- My fault here for using the word "...this...".  It might actually end beeing a great game. And that would be awsome. But please, let's stop using the term clone, since its a genre and all are suposed to be clones till someone  do  some inovations or "twists" to the existing formula. And that doesn't mean  it will be the new real deal. Anyway... good luck with the bucks. 

Thanks guys! :P

 

I don't understand  why Funcom start the development of a new game instead of finishing/fixing AoC.

Also don't understand why people still buy games from companys with the record of releasing "unfinished" products.

Even worse.... life time subs and people buy.

I believe its only our fault if we keep getting this silly MMO's and get cheated... again, and again.

Thanks guys! :P

Unfortunately journalists around the world are paid to smile and give personal opinions according to their boss interest... who usually is some guy with political connections.

Just like I saw this last year in my country. Just to change public opinion and have an impact in our recent elections. True or not... its unprofessional for a journalist to make facial expressions, laughs and personal opinions.

Its actually a violation of their code of conduct if there is any.

Just like soccer on TV. We now got commentators instead of reporters. Guys that never kicked a ball in their life's are now promoted to commentators... whatever.

Anyway, I doubt any of this game reviewers are journalists at all. If they are, well... nothing we can do about it.

About game scores, ofc its completely ridiculous that Fallen Earth for example, got bigger score than World of Warcraft and so on so on.

If people don't like a game its fine... but common. You can't score like this. The differences in polish, content, lore, gameplay, etc etc etc are huge.

I play EVE btw not WoW.

EVE got a 8.12 and Fallen Earth got a 8.11

I could spend all day "reviewing" this scores and delete my mmorpg.com account just because you guys suck.

And before i get an email threatening me that I'll get my account blocked from saying "you guys suck"... yes, my english sucks.

Guys... this is a war, other kind of war... but still a war.

I'm waiting to see a war that doesn't affect several innocent life's. This is the same thing.

This guys have their statements, whatever they are. And I'm pretty sure no one would consider this serious if "us" the "innocent" people, wouldn't be affected by it. It's just the way society work.

Try to hack Sony and don't hit the innocent... you would never know. Sony wouldn't care because no one knows and no one was affected. So they just use their cash to grow fat, don't invest in security to protect our data etc etc.

To bad that people only manifest when they are directly impaired by any kind of crap.

Probably some of "our" posters or EVE players have been enlisted in the army, of any country that participated in the war in Iraq. And how many innocent life's have been destroyed by his participation. Even if none... at least they sided with the "lulz power machine". (this is just one example... sad or not.. it is a simple example)

I could go with the example of wood from Amazonia... how many of you buy stuff manufactured with wood from Amazonia. Do you even check the provenance? How many natives are affected by the irresponsibility of us costumers? Maybe we should make our statements too. Don't buy stuff made of wood that comes from there... many people will lose their jobs but maybe some natives are saved in the process.

This crap applies to everything.

Power machines grow fat.. do little for you. You make a statement... thousands of innocent people get affected... they revolt against the statement guys and keep buying PS3 and grow fat the companies that do little to zero for you.

Oh well... i don't know if lulzsec got any statement to make. if its serious or what are their intentions (maybe its some plot made by huge corrupted people, trying to get more of our cash to "secure da internetz").

Whatever.. this is how it works... more or less. My english sucks in case its more for the less. I tried.

"The bosses are inside instances, instead of outside. Under no circumstance do you need to call your Guildies at 3 A.M. to log on before another Guild pulled it."

oh my... not to mention the rest. I'll just stick with this one.

Hope you will enjoy life a bit before you get old and die.

Good luck mate!