Skill systems, whether any developer wants to acknowledge it or not, are the future of MMORPG's, and perhaps games in general. I've seen a lot of posts about EVE, and they are all pretty much right, one thing that drew me into that game was the skill system. Though I will admit, I never played past the hour-long tutorial because I was getting sucked into that game hardcore; yes I quit because it was too much fun of a game for me.

I haven't seen any posts regarding the original Star Wars Galaxies, (and if I missed them, I'm sorry). That game was also skill based, but it was also class based, (they were called 'professions'). A player had a certain number of skill points to use on any 32 professions. You had 5 or 6 basic professions, then the rest were elite professions. The fun thing about this system, is that a person could be an armorsmith, and also be a pistoleer, or any other combonation of the 32 professions. To this day, that is still my favorite type of skill/class system I have seen in any game. The great thing was, if you were tired of being a Bounty Hunter, you could reset all your skill points, and choose to be a Doctor, or a Musician. You did have to level back up to those points though, (while there were skill points, there was also MANY types of experience you could gain, which you had to earn in order to spend your points). But I will also add that if you knew the game well, you could level VERY quickly. I mean getting experience to become a Medic/Doctor simply required that you healed people wounds and damage; people would come into towns and go to a med center, where doctors hung out and healed wounds all day.

To me, that system was so far ahead of it's time it was ridiculous. The point being: It was a skill-based/class/level system, a mix of every type of advancement system, instead of just one. And for anyone who ever played that game back then, for me at least; there was never a dull moment.

Quite honestly, the only real solution to this problem is to make a game so incredibly awesome that people just want to log in for the experience. This won't be happening for another 10-15 years. You have to make a game within a game, within a game, within a game, within a game. An MMORPG should be the ultimate game, an alternate reality. The only way any game has even gotten close to this point is by staying online for many years and adding more and more content, always thinking of something new the player can do.

Originally posted by ericbelser

Actually, the "grind" could be done away with fairly easily if devs actually wanted to...part of the "problem" is that many players want the grind. Take away the artificially measured and incremented aspects of an MMO and many players scream that it "lacks content" or that it is "too easy".

You want a game without grind?

Step ONE: Design a level-less system from the start; probably even a classless one which allows things like offline training.  Keep everything very incremental, gradual and casually paced - mechanisms that reward experiencing the game universe, not grinding and gimmicking.

Step TWO: Design a persistant and interactive world where doing the things you need to do are *fun* or at least interactive and immersive. This doesn't mean everything is fun for everyone, but that the systems are fun and appropriate for those using them...someone who wants to be a "hunter" should be able to go out and stalk deer in an enjoyable fashion; likewise forging a sword should be more than dropping 3 items in a container and hitting combine.

Step THREE: DO NOT focus the game on "endgame content"; in fact there should be no such thing! Things should be kept open ended enough that you never really feel "done". Part of this is combat balance, a more realistic skill-based system where one veteran knight might well get his arse kicked if that pack of villagers pounce on him is required.

I have always agreed that developers should keep the player away from the end-game as much as possible without sacrificing the fun factor and gameplay. Another way you could use that mode of thinking.

A lot of good points in this thread.

Personally, I think grinding is both a developer and a player issue. A developer doesn't think, "Let's make another grind", they think, "How can we get them to the next level?" ; and it turns into a grind. At the same time, you can't stop a player from playing a game 10 hours a day and turning their own experience into a grind.

You can't ever really take away the "grind". It exists in games, in real life, it's everywhere, there's just no way around it, (unless you're the kind of person who is content with the way things are, and doesn't ever want to move forward in life, or accomplish any goals). I've thought a lot about the grind myself, because I have played a lot of games that I completed hated grinding to level up; and it REALLY sucked to the point I would stop playing the game altogether.

I have always believed that developers should stray away from the "grind" aspect of any game as much as possible, WITHOUT sacrificing gameplay and fun factor. You also have to think of grinding as a way for developers to insure income for their game. It's a good way, but it's also a bad way to keep players because the game becomes less important than making money does. There are a lot of arguments you could make about this subject, and I could go on forever about it. I will just list my ideas on how to get rid of the grind.

-Making a more immersive experience for the player so they don't know they are "grinding". There are very few games where this happens, usually the best of the best RPG's I've ever played. I was so engaged in the story, and seeing what would happen next that I paid no attention to leveling whatsoever.

-More types of experience, or experience rewards. A more complex experience system, almost random in a sense, would make the player forget about leveling and just enjoy the game. I was recently playing on an NWN2 server that rewarded experience points for standing around and "roleplaying" with other players. It seemed fairly random, but I know that when I stopped to talk to another player, I would always have a chance to get that bonus xp.

-Rewards, rewards, rewards. I have always believed in giving the player experience for doing almost anything in the game. The achievement system in World of Warcraft is a prime example: You get achievement points, but they are completely useless, if they perhaps awarded experience, people might be more inclined to go out and complete them. At the same time, the system should be complex, in the sense that completing the same achievement on different levels would reward more experience, so there are always more achievements to do while leveling. More on rewards: players should get rewarded for doing ALL types of things. In Warhammer, you get things for completing item sets, or unlocking certain titles in the game. Take perhaps an armory, and give the player experience for discovering new items they have never seen before.

While these are only a few of the ideas that I have had regarding the subject, they should give you guys something to chew on.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by Nineven

Originally posted by lornj

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by lornj

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by lornj

im a veteran of the pre-cu days of swg and i didnt get pissed when they changed the game. whats all the fuss about?

Just because you played it, doesn't mean you loved it, and if you didn't love it, you will never understand.

 

<Mod Edit>

There is something wrong with you if you don't show any passion for a personal hobby. Go tell car guys to "get a life" for loving cars. Go tell gardeners to "get a life" for loving to be in the garden. Or maybe you should open your mind a little and stop being so damn ignorant.

 

with your rage against this game id say it is personal for you. and in that moment you failed.

 

Stop trolling and post something constructive.

So he loved a software program, big deal. Having a passion for something, anything, gives you inspiration in life. You don't have passions, loves, you fall into the category of every single drone in the world that works a job they hate and accepts it.

Veterans of SWG are still pissed, yeah. Why? Because SOE pushed them back to the stone age. SWG was probably the closest game anyone has ever played that tapped the surface of an alternate reality. You had one character, one life to live, the player's ultimate alter-ego was created here, and in no other game since. A lot of things I talk about and reference, people have no idea about, and I don't expect you to understand either. What I expect from you is to have a constructive debate instead of spouting off derogatories like you're in elementary school. Intelligent conversations make people smarter, it's a proven fact. I get it okay, you're a gamer who likes to use internet lingo, whatever man. Ask yourself who needs to get a life when you're adding absolutely nothing even remotely intelligent to a general forum topic.

 

He is trolling? You are defending someone whos panties got ruffled, thus turned to calling people names.

Mr Lincoln insults everyone around who doesnt agree with him. It isnt like this is the first post he has done it in.

SWG was a game for some disturbed individuals to role-play their lives in SW. It was nothing about a game....just some sick fantasy world that got shattered.

Who needs to get a life? The malcontents who cant get over it, and anyone else that condones their behavior.

 

I consider a troll anyone who doesn't directly talk about the forum topic discussion. That's just me.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to play a character in the Star Wars universe. it's fun, and can be a great stress-reducer for real life. A lot of people will agree that stepping out of your own shoes for a little while can be a healthy release.

The IMPORTANT thing however, is just how far you take it. I've known some people who couldn't bare not to play their precious SWG, and that's a problem. When the game starts dripping outside your real life leisure time, then you've got a problem. This happened to me, and I regret every second of play time I spent when I should've been working. I learned my lesson, and I'm over the combat upgrade deboggle and everything SWG, I've just got better things to worry about. I will agree that people just need to get over it and move on. At this point, I just hope that a game will be created that will blow me away as much as SWG initially did; I don't even care if it's Star Wars themed. I wouldn't say I'm losing sleep over it though.

Originally posted by Rydeson

     Every other post I read over on the SWTOR boards talks about player cities, player housing, profession trees, crafting, harvesting raw materials, player made economy. etc etc.. OMG I even heard someone ask for entertainers to be a class to play...

     Psssst.. PRE - CU is DEAD DEAD DEAD and for good reason... Help us all if TOR turns into a failed remake of SWG..

I don't think it will turn into a re-make of the original Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided. I think Bioware will look at things fans enjoyed in the pre-CU days, and then invent new things to take their place; or even improve on old game systems.

Originally posted by lornj

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by lornj

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Originally posted by lornj

im a veteran of the pre-cu days of swg and i didnt get pissed when they changed the game. whats all the fuss about?

Just because you played it, doesn't mean you loved it, and if you didn't love it, you will never understand.

 

<Mod Edit>

There is something wrong with you if you don't show any passion for a personal hobby. Go tell car guys to "get a life" for loving cars. Go tell gardeners to "get a life" for loving to be in the garden. Or maybe you should open your mind a little and stop being so damn ignorant.

 

with your rage against this game id say it is personal for you. and in that moment you failed.

Stop trolling and post something constructive.

So he loved a software program, big deal. Having a passion for something, anything, gives you inspiration in life. You don't have passions, loves, you fall into the category of every single drone in the world that works a job they hate and accepts it.

Veterans of SWG are still pissed, yeah. Why? Because SOE pushed them back to the stone age. SWG was probably the closest game anyone has ever played that tapped the surface of an alternate reality. You had one character, one life to live, the player's ultimate alter-ego was created here, and in no other game since. A lot of things I talk about and reference, people have no idea about, and I don't expect you to understand either. What I expect from you is to have a constructive debate instead of spouting off derogatories like you're in elementary school. Intelligent conversations make people smarter, it's a proven fact. I get it okay, you're a gamer who likes to use internet lingo, whatever man. Ask yourself who needs to get a life when you're adding absolutely nothing even remotely intelligent to a general forum topic.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by Nineven

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by hubertgrove

Originally posted by Moaky07

I like how folks keep forgetting....the only reason SWG kept 250 to 300k accounts going for a while is because they were only allowed one character per server. 

I have heard talk of folks carrying 4 to 7 accounts as nothing special. The ones running 10 or more were the big dogs. I wonder if Sam da Man had a few of those accounts :P

When SWG got below 300k accounts, which meant a heck of a lot less folks playing than that, is probably when alarms started going off in Smeds office. If you think about it, that really is an awfull slim amount of SW fans playing considering EQ at all times stayed ahead of it. Probably when talks of a revamp began...if not sooner after watching Beta see Ralph not being able to implement the classes...let alone put content into the game.

Koster should be beotch smacked for attempting to launch a RL sim on SOE/LA's money. I see he isnt doing it with his new project, which his company is backing AFAIK. I bet even Ralph would mentally say "Only an idiot would make another SWG" if someone were to ask him why his latest projest wasnt SWG2. He wouldnt say it...but damn it all just the same...that fracker would be thinking it.

Shame he didnt think it when SWG was in development, and long before he began spinning his wheels in beta.   I havent heard yet....is Ralph gonna make his own customers stand in doc lines for content this time as well? I bet the answer is "Hell No!".

Ah well...we may not be able to ninja kick Ralph for the BS game he unleashed upon the masses, but we can hopefully finally have a game without his idiotic influence in place.

 

 

'Raph'. His name is 'Raph'. Not 'Ralph'. It's short for 'Rafaele'.

 

Raph is still a genius, and I'll tell you why. When you launch an MMORPG, the devs spend the next few years implementing new content. When SWG was released it had tons of player content, things for them to do and paths for them to choose. That was never changed. They worked on other areas because players had 32 professions to choose from and enjoy, and mix and match how they saw fit. Raph's vision of SWG wasn't just a casual RPG game, it was the ultimate RPG game. Do anything you want, he looks at games 20 years into the future, which is how all devs should if they want to make great games. Raph's creativity fueled SWG, and he is still putting that to use, that's why he's still genius. Every other game company just wants to copycat everything they see, they've lost creativity, which is ideally what invented the video game to begin with!

 

 

Then shouldnt you be in line to play Ralphs new game, rather than in line for what you dont seem to like in the first place?

 

Ralph made a RL sim out of SWG and it bombed hard. There is nothing else to say about it. Only those with blinders on would say otherwise.

Some SW fans played his game...the rest of gaming world said no back then...long before the kids who like very directed content came to MMOs no less.

I'm not in line for any game, I never said I was. SWG may have "bombed" at launch, but it grew very popular, and at one point it was the biggest MMORPG on the market. That doesn't matter either way, you're missing the point, everyone always misses the point.

When you launch a MMORPG, unless it bombs HARDCORE, it will eventually turn into a sandbox game due to content being added on and stacked over and over and over; because players get tired of doing the same thing day in and day out. <--- THIS IS THE POINT BY THE WAY Even a game like World of Warcraft will eventually go the sandbox route because there just isn't any other way to go. You have to keep the player interested, and giving them things to do is the ONLY answer. All I'm saying, is to build a sandbox world to begin with, but don't make it unfamiliar to the player, THEN build onto that. It's inevitable man, all games eventually turn into sandbox games to keep the player interested. That is of course if the game is interesting enough for the player to last that long. Raph knows this, so do a lot of veteran pioneers of the MMORPG genre. The problem right now is no one gives a rat's ass, they want to cash in right now while the trend is still hot. Only 2/3 of the world has common sense, and every game developer seems to have joined the fraction.

Because games in this genre continue to get larger, I think a lot of development companies are going to find out that in order to make a successful MMORPG, it takes more time and more money than most of them can even realize. Bioware has said that SWTOR already has more content than ALL of their games combined. Take a look at all the games they've made here. And that's how these games need to be made in order to even have a chance to be successful right now.

These next couple years will be interesting for MMORPG's, for no other reason than the sci-fi setting taking the reigns. Hopefully, Star Trek, Stargate, and the new Star Wars will redefine the genre and tell developers that yes, you have to take more time to make a better game because players are sick of questing, they're sick of leveling, and they just want something new.

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by hubertgrove

Originally posted by Moaky07

I like how folks keep forgetting....the only reason SWG kept 250 to 300k accounts going for a while is because they were only allowed one character per server. 

I have heard talk of folks carrying 4 to 7 accounts as nothing special. The ones running 10 or more were the big dogs. I wonder if Sam da Man had a few of those accounts :P

When SWG got below 300k accounts, which meant a heck of a lot less folks playing than that, is probably when alarms started going off in Smeds office. If you think about it, that really is an awfull slim amount of SW fans playing considering EQ at all times stayed ahead of it. Probably when talks of a revamp began...if not sooner after watching Beta see Ralph not being able to implement the classes...let alone put content into the game.

Koster should be beotch smacked for attempting to launch a RL sim on SOE/LA's money. I see he isnt doing it with his new project, which his company is backing AFAIK. I bet even Ralph would mentally say "Only an idiot would make another SWG" if someone were to ask him why his latest projest wasnt SWG2. He wouldnt say it...but damn it all just the same...that fracker would be thinking it.

Shame he didnt think it when SWG was in development, and long before he began spinning his wheels in beta.   I havent heard yet....is Ralph gonna make his own customers stand in doc lines for content this time as well? I bet the answer is "Hell No!".

Ah well...we may not be able to ninja kick Ralph for the BS game he unleashed upon the masses, but we can hopefully finally have a game without his idiotic influence in place.

 

 

'Raph'. His name is 'Raph'. Not 'Ralph'. It's short for 'Rafaele'.

 

Raph is still a genius, and I'll tell you why. When you launch an MMORPG, the devs spend the next few years implementing new content. When SWG was released it had tons of player content, things for them to do and paths for them to choose. That was never changed. They worked on other areas because players had 32 professions to choose from and enjoy, and mix and match how they saw fit. Raph's vision of SWG wasn't just a casual RPG game, it was the ultimate RPG game. Do anything you want, he looks at games 20 years into the future, which is how all devs should if they want to make great games. Raph's creativity fueled SWG, and he is still putting that to use, that's why he's still genius. Every other game company just wants to copycat everything they see, they've lost creativity, which is ideally what invented the video game to begin with!

Someday, someone, be it Bioware, or some other company who thinks outside the box is going to realize that players want more freedom in games. They want to do things they have never been able to do in other games, because if you're a gamer, chances are you've played every type of game there is to play by now. A simple example comparing SWG to WoW, read these statements, and if anyone can give me a reasonable, logical answer as to why they would choose WoW over SWG BASED ON THESE STATEMENTS alone, then you just don't know good games.

WoW: The best flying mount in the game (only obtainable by pure chance, luck of the roll which could takes months, upon months to get, possibly longer) its fast, and looks cool, it gets you everywhere you need to go. It will always be the same, a simple tool to get you from point A to point B. You can't attack while mounted, but others can attack you. If you get attacked by chance, then there is a possibly of instant death from a five hundred foot free fall to the dirt.

SWG: The best spaceship in the game (you bought it when you had some extra creds), it's fast (customizable), looks how I want it to look (customizable), and not only gets you everyplace you need to go, but you can gain experience and loot doing space combat. Should I get sick of grinding levels, I can always go do space combat for a bit of gameplay change. Oh yeah, and each part is customizable down to dotting the "i'"s and crossing the "t"s, and you can name the ship as well.

People want more choices, plain and simple. If you don't give it to them straight out of the gate, then you will eventually end up giving it to them months or years down the road, and by that time your game will be history.

Originally posted by gillvane1

Why do so many people mention "skills" instead of levels when they talk about sandbox games? IMO, a sandbox game just means a game where players can affect the gameworld.

If only classes exist, the player never changes. With a skill system, they simply drop one skill for another, so they can "affect the game world" by adapting to it. Classes don't allow you to adapt to anything. In my opinion, being able to adapt to the game is how a player affects the game world.

 

For example, in EVE, you can take over territory and hold it. That's what makes it a sandbox game, and it has nothing to do with "skills". EVE would still be a sandbox game if there were classes.

So you're telling me in Tabula Rasa when you capture a territory, that makes it a sandbox game? A sandbox game, or virtual world, has many things that make it like it is. The biggest thing, to the players, is the ability to switch "classes" or "professions"; which is generally done by using a skill system. That makes it "sandbox" because they can play whatever they want, however they want.

 

I like skills, as long as there are limits so everyone doesn't become a tank mage, but classes work just fine if they are done well with several variations in each class.

There can be tank mages all day long, until someone discovers how to kill them, then everyone becomes the "tank mage killer". A lot of fine tweaking and balancing has to go into a skill system to players don't run into problems like this.

 

One form of progression I really don't like, is doing something over and over to raise a skill. Like shooting my bow, raises my bow skill, or swinging my sword raises my sword skill. That, IMO, is retarded, and very unrealistic. It's just an invite for macros to raise skills, and what's the point of that?

How is that "unrealistic"? You didn't get better at typing by NOT typing did you? Raising your skill is like practice, you swing your sword and hit things with it because you are practicing at getting better at it, (raising your skill).

Plus, instead of making choices that are logical when it comes to which skill to use, you make choices that make no sense at all, just to raise your skill. Should I use my fireball spell, or my sword, or my dagger? I don't care which one does the most damage, which one has an advantage over my enemy, I'll use the one that raises the skill I want to increase. Over and over.

I think after dying multiple times trying to kill a boss because someone is trying to raise their skill would probably tell them to actually kill the boss and stop paying for death penalties.

I would like to see a skill system in an MMORPG similar to KOTOR. You can choose any skill you want, but there are penalties for taking skills outside of your specialty. That allows for variety, but makes sure everyone doesn't become a tank mage.

That's the thing about sandbox games, you create your own specialty, you don't choose one.

But again, "sandbox" is about changing the world, not about changing your character. Every MMO lets you change your character, that doesn't make it a sandbox.

Sandbox - A closely-controlled environment (the game world) in which a relatively untrusted application (the player) is allowed to execute.

As you can see, it really is about the player. That's why skill sets are almost always referenced.

Originally posted by rejad

Originally posted by kefkah

Originally posted by PreCU

 

---

Originally posted by kefkah

---

Originally posted by SioBabble

 

I was one of the five marksman testers for the CURB. We never got to actually playtest anything...all we ever got was an advance look at some of the design concept documents, and a forum to discuss them on.

---

 

 

Wow, now thats something I didn't know. I thought there had been some playtesting involved.
Wouldn't happen to have any of those design concept documents still, would you? I would love to put them up in our file archives.

---

 

 

the CURB documents were included in biophilia's scrapbook (version 5.1)

 

Many thanks. Will go pay a visit to the community's unsung hero and his wonderful archive.

 

I don't suppose anyone has a link to just those documents?  I downloaded the scrapbook and the thing is massive, nearly a gig, and my computer can't decompress it.

Just Google it next time dude:

http://files.filefront.com/Biophilias+Scrapbook+v51zip/;9632666;/fileinfo.html

Here's the thing about Darkfall that players don't seem to want to understand:

A game of that magnitude is going to be in development for a long time before its released. First of all, all the game features that are planned are going to take a long time to code. They say players can craft ANYTHING in the game, that's a lot of stuff man. Secondly, with all the game features, there will need to be a lot more bug testing, which just adds to the development time.

Now I might add that it was a mistake on the devs part to list all of the game features they are planning and release it to the public. That should never be done unless you are very very close to the release date. Because this is exactly what happens: Players wonder what the fuck is going on with the game and why its not finished all the way up until its release.

Either way, patience is a virtue. Just remember that most, if not all of the great MMORPG's usually have an extended development cycle.

And yes, I think Stargate should be open season

Originally posted by Force_Fire

Originally posted by lindhsky

I agree with most of what you write and I think that the list you wrote down is keys to make it a successful game.

12) Best items and components needed by crafters come from PVE and RAIDING.

I don't want components needed by crafters to come from raiding. Raiding is fun but when it is a must and you need to do it a bunch of times every week to stay in a guild, then suddenly it is not fun anymore and this is one of the reasons I quit WOW and most of my friends with me. I loved it the first 100 times, after that it grew old.

My dream is to have a huge planet system and that you could get some of the components just by exploring. Maybe you and a friend decide to explore a planet and with a little luck you will find a place where you find resources. Next week, perhaps it is somewhere else. Random spawning points in a huge world, but still within some limitations of course. You wont find polarbear poo in a djungle for an example. Spawning points sometimes guarded by NPCs and sometimes not. To me this would be a great thing because that way we won't get 1 billion sites on internet telling us exactly where to go to get that and that component.

And those places could be a reason for guilds to fight eachother if  two have found them at the same time. I want a game where you could travel around alone exploring and have some success in crafting instead of having to join a huge guild and raid three times a week or buy components from those guild for ridicolous prices.

It opens up so many opportunities. Let say you're a crafter and have found one of those places. In a huge world not many will find the same place perhaps in a week. He knows this place is guarded by something that he can't beat by himself, so he has to buy help. I would love a system like this. A system where you can get money for helping out a stranger to get his components. A system where you can get help if you are in a guild without having to pay or pay for some help if you like to play alone most of the time.

Well lot of thoughs and in bad english I know. :)

 

 

My point is, that in order for Crafting to be meaningful you need to make sure that they can make the BEST items in the game. This also on of the most important component of a "Player Driven Economy". But I understand the need for PVE content as well. I understand that Raiding should be in the game experience because many players love it.  This is why I said let them quest for crafter goods...but you could also make it a way to raid for Cash to pay crafters for goods and services.

You see the trick is giving everyone the best of all worlds...we all could see what happened to the SWG economy after they made crafting worthless. These days almost no one gives love to the crafters.

It wouldn't have mattered in the end anyway. Because that's around the time "gold-farming" was getting popular. Players would've just bought credits to get that new stuff.

Originally posted by -Jan-

I would have liked the Bioware MMO to be set in the Mass effect universe,  It has more shades of gray than the Star Wars universe.

 

Same here, I think a Mass Effect MMO would be awesome. I though that's what it was until they announced the trilogy for the game.

Until I hear an official statement from either LA or Bioware, I won't believe that it is an Old Republic MMO

After reading that second blog posted here, I can see where the guy is coming from.

He clearly said that the point and shoot aspect of the NGE was much needed, then went on to say that dropping the skill system was not; and not something he wanted to do.

But as some have pointed out, he didn't have a choice, and he did the best he could with what he had. I don't think of the NGE as the individual developer's fault, I see it as corporate SOE's fault.

You have to put yourself in their shoes; their jobs were on the line, they either had to make a new SWG, or they were out, simply put. No one wants to lose their job, man.

So I salute all the developers old and new of Star Wars Galaxies, for putting up with the shit that is Sony Online Entertainment.

Go here for more info on that: starwarsgalaxies.station.sony.com/players/guides.vm

Grr...

This is the message I am getting with Firefox 5.0 (below)

I get a slightly different error with Internet Explorer 7.0

he web site you are accessing has experienced an unexpected error.
Please contact the website administrator.

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478 : 
479 : 													fckEditor = createObject("component", "#basePath#fckeditor");
480 : 													fckEditor.instanceName = "comments";
481 : 													fckEditor.value = '';

coldfusion.runtime.CfJspPage$NoSuchTemplateException: Could not find the ColdFusion Component or Interface /fckeditor_26/fckeditor.
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	at coldfusion.runtime.CFPage.createObjectProxy(CFPage.java:4707)
	at coldfusion.runtime.CFPage.CreateObject(CFPage.java:4552)
	at cfinc_blog2ecfm1156188907._factor7(D:\mmorpg_new\inc_blog.cfm:479)
	at cfinc_blog2ecfm1156188907._factor8(D:\mmorpg_new\inc_blog.cfm:307)
	at cfinc_blog2ecfm1156188907._factor10(D:\mmorpg_new\inc_blog.cfm:306)
	at cfinc_blog2ecfm1156188907._factor12(D:\mmorpg_new\inc_blog.cfm:188)
	at cfinc_blog2ecfm1156188907.runPage(D:\mmorpg_new\inc_blog.cfm:1)
	at coldfusion.runtime.CfJspPage.invoke(CfJspPage.java:196)
	at coldfusion.tagext.lang.IncludeTag.doStartTag(IncludeTag.java:370)
	at coldfusion.runtime.CfJspPage._emptyTcfTag(CfJspPage.java:2661)
	at cfblogs2ecfm1094974908.runPage(D:\mmorpg_new\blogs.cfm:99)
	at coldfusion.runtime.CfJspPage.invoke(CfJspPage.java:196)
	at coldfusion.tagext.lang.IncludeTag.doStartTag(IncludeTag.java:370)
	at coldfusion.filter.CfincludeFilter.invoke(CfincludeFilter.java:65)
	at coldfusion.filter.ApplicationFilter.invoke(ApplicationFilter.java:279)
	at coldfusion.filter.MonitoringFilter.invoke(MonitoringFilter.java:40)
	at coldfusion.filter.PathFilter.invoke(PathFilter.java:86)
	at coldfusion.filter.ExceptionFilter.invoke(ExceptionFilter.java:70)
	at coldfusion.filter.BrowserDebugFilter.invoke(BrowserDebugFilter.java:74)
	at coldfusion.filter.ClientScopePersistenceFilter.invoke(ClientScopePersistenceFilter.java:28)
	at coldfusion.filter.BrowserFilter.invoke(BrowserFilter.java:38)
	at coldfusion.filter.NoCacheFilter.invoke(NoCacheFilter.java:46)
	at coldfusion.filter.GlobalsFilter.invoke(GlobalsFilter.java:38)
	at coldfusion.filter.DatasourceFilter.invoke(DatasourceFilter.java:22)
	at coldfusion.CfmServlet.service(CfmServlet.java:175)
	at coldfusion.bootstrap.BootstrapServlet.service(BootstrapServlet.java:89)
	at jrun.servlet.FilterChain.doFilter(FilterChain.java:86)
	at coldfusion.monitor.event.MonitoringServletFilter.doFilter(MonitoringServletFilter.java:42)
	at coldfusion.bootstrap.BootstrapFilter.doFilter(BootstrapFilter.java:46)
	at jrun.servlet.FilterChain.doFilter(FilterChain.java:94)
	at jrun.servlet.FilterChain.service(FilterChain.java:101)
	at jrun.servlet.ServletInvoker.invoke(ServletInvoker.java:106)
	at jrun.servlet.JRunInvokerChain.invokeNext(JRunInvokerChain.java:42)
	at jrun.servlet.JRunRequestDispatcher.invoke(JRunRequestDispatcher.java:286)
	at jrun.servlet.ServletEngineService.dispatch(ServletEngineService.java:543)
	at jrun.servlet.jrpp.JRunProxyService.invokeRunnable(JRunProxyService.java:203)
	at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$DownstreamMetrics.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:320)
	at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$ThreadThrottle.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:428)
	at jrunx.scheduler.ThreadPool$UpstreamMetrics.invokeRunnable(ThreadPool.java:266)
	at jrunx.scheduler.WorkerThread.run(WorkerThread.java:66)

Originally posted by Suvroc

 

Originally posted by Avos

Crafting is a niche.  Companies want the masses to play and pay, and by masses I mean 8 year old kids, casual gamers, and essentially the WoW crowd.

MMO games don't require skill, they don't require thinking for the most part, they require hours and hours of endless grinding and leveling, and repetitive hotkey combat that is basically predetermined.

Until people bore of this you probably won't see much of a change.

 

I agree that crafting is essentially a niche element in MMO's. But I've felt for a while that due to the MMO genre becoming increasingly saturated a niche element will help set that game apart. I believe it's critical for the long term survivability of any new MMO.

Which makes me wonder if a game that offers many niche elements would be more successful in todays market?

Probably.

Its kind of like the gas prices... Gas prices are sky-rocketing rock now, if someone invented a car that was affordable, and didn't use gas, they would have huge amounts of success. With MMORPG's,  people are so sick of playing the same one and they want something new. The first company that capitalizes on that will have immediate success. It's a risk, but now is the best time to take it.

Too bad no one is smart enough to realize this.