You should always automatically assume that players will figure out, and post how all game systems work, and that includes the story. Post-launch, there will be dozens of sights up I am sure that will have storyline walkthroughs. All you can really do is avoid them.

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Nineven

Originally posted by Zenjinx

Originally posted by Nineven

I did think before I posted. And Diablo is not an RPG game, just like Orcs vs. Humans wasn't an RPG game. The POINT was innovation in RPG games, of which Blizzard has zero, save for WoW.

How you could say Diablo is not an RPG is beyond me. Have you ever seen the game? Just because the word action is in front of the acronym, does not negate the rest which is RPG.

Plenty of innovation in the Diablo series. I'm not defending any game company, but a definition. Look it up.

 

We just think of the definition differently man. I don't see Diablo as an RPG, because an RPG to me is somewhat of a life simulation game. 

Either way, it doesn't really matter right now.

 

I saw Panda cuddlys in Warcraft's next expansion and laughed. I was considering playing WoW again until SWTOR came out, but I just...I can't do pandas man, I was VERY hesitant in playing the game to begin with because of the cartoon graphics. Now I am glad I quit for good lol.

I'm calling shenanigans.

You weren't going to play it until ToR came out, your just trying to validate your complaint about, of all things, pandas in a game.

ToR will be out long before the expansion; so you'd be playing Cat WoW and the xpac wouldn't have anything to do with the experience you'd have until ToR released.

 

I wouldn't have played the expansion, obviously because it hasn't been released yet. I am saying that seeing what the future holds was just more of a reason for me to stay the hell away from that game and play the games I want to play.

As even more icing on the cake...I always thought it was a little fucked up having cartoon graphics, but you would do adult-themed quests like poisoning people and then watching them scream die before your eyes...I mean am I the only one that thinks that it a little messed up? LOL 

Originally posted by GreenHell

I did think before I posted. And Diablo is not an RPG game, just like Orcs vs. Humans wasn't an RPG game. The POINT was innovation in RPG games, of which Blizzard has zero, save for WoW.

Yes but Blizzard's one has made history. It has dominated this genre. It has changed the way MMORPG's are seen. Good or Bad. No matter what BW has done up to this point it has never changed an entire genre of gaming. Yes BW has made some great games. I cant argue that but to discount Blizzard because they only made one RPG (WoW) is like saying "Hey I know you broke all kinds of records and changed the mmorpg industry but you only did it once. "

 

Well said, very well said.

The point is, Blizzard is great at making games fun and addicting, but they lack in the actual RPG area; which Bioware practically owns.

It's like Super Mario Bros. I still LOVE that game, but eventually I got sick of it and started playing other games. That is where I believe WoW is now.

Originally posted by Zenjinx

Originally posted by Nineven

I did think before I posted. And Diablo is not an RPG game, just like Orcs vs. Humans wasn't an RPG game. The POINT was innovation in RPG games, of which Blizzard has zero, save for WoW.

How you could say Diablo is not an RPG is beyond me. Have you ever seen the game? Just because the word action is in front of the acronym, does not negate the rest which is RPG.

Plenty of innovation in the Diablo series. I'm not defending any game company, but a definition. Look it up.

We just think of the definition differently man. I don't see Diablo as an RPG, because an RPG to me is somewhat of a life simulation game. 

Either way, it doesn't really matter right now.

I saw Panda cuddlys in Warcraft's next expansion and laughed. I was considering playing WoW again until SWTOR came out, but I just...I can't do pandas man, I was VERY hesitant in playing the game to begin with because of the cartoon graphics. Now I am glad I quit for good lol.

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Nineven

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by Uhwop

I have a question.

If the new WoW xpac turns out to be the highest selling xpac Blizzard releases, will that mean that ToR failed?

Because I'm going to laugh really hard if this xpac sells millions of copies; wich I fully expect it to.

Everyone complained when BC came out.

Everyone complained when WoLK came out.

Everyone complained when Cat came out.

That's all most people here do.  Complain about whatever game that they think is going to compete with whatever game it is they're rooting for at any particular moment.

Here's a fact.  A lot of the people who are bashing WoW now, prophesizing doom for Blizzard, and huge success for ToR or GW2 or whatever other game they're waiting for, will be rooting for some other game a few months after the game they're wating for releases.  That's what a lot of you peole here do.  You jump from one MMO to the next, and talk a bunch of junk about whatever most recent one you played.  Over and over and over and over it goes. 

Blizzard isn't going anywere, WoW isn't going anywere, but a lot of you will be moving on to the next great hype.

 

And what's your question?  What do WoW's EXPANSION sales have to do with another game's sales?  I don't get it.  Both can be successful.  Since when can only one game succeed at a time?

 

In a capitalist country not being number one in sales is a failure from a business standpoint. Professionally, if you break even and then make some profit, then you have succeeded. Not everyone understands that.

No, that's your opinion.

Capitalism is not all about "sales".  It's not even "about" selling anything.  And in business sucess is measured in profits, and not everyone makes a profit selling something.  I don't recall ever buying anything from my bank; yet they were some of the most profitable institutions in the world.  Your "level" of success has everything to do with your own personal goals, whether they be set by you as a CEO or you as an employee of a company. 

Bethesda isn't the most profitable development studio, are you really gonna tell me that they aren't a success in a capalistic society?  If so, you need to study up on capitalism.

You are right, I did use "capitalism" somewhat out of context there. 

Originally posted by Zenjinx

Originally posted by Nineven

I'm not flaming you dude, just simply pointing out that Blizzard is years behind compared to Bioware in terms of innovation in RPG games. Simply because Blizzard has only made one RPG game to date: WoW. While Bioware has made many. 

Have to point this out to you. There is a game called Diablo, it is entering the 3rd version. What do you classify this game as?

Think before you post.

I did think before I posted. And Diablo is not an RPG game, just like Orcs vs. Humans wasn't an RPG game. The POINT was innovation in RPG games, of which Blizzard has zero, save for WoW.

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Nineven

Originally posted by Cacophanist

Competition normally makes for better products. So when WOW and SWTOR compete we should get a better MMO right? Well not if both games are total turkeys to start with. Both are utterly unoriginal interms of game play and style, they have the same old shitty EQ style combat, same old quest and level system (yawn). 

So normally competition makes for better products but not in this case. 

Such a shame.

 

WoW is unoriginal, because it took what already existed and packaged it all together.

TOR is unoriginal? FPS style flight sim in an MMO, OFFLINE crafting, companions, voice-overs for EVERYONE practically.  You need to understand what innovation and creativity is before you can make a judgement like that.

Same old quest and level system...yep, that will never change.

Let me ask you something, when you go play an RPG game offline like Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy, Dragon Age what are those games all about? A quest and leveling/advancement system. 

What do you do in ANY game? You are tasked with something and then you do it to move the game forward. Quest and level/advancement. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news man, but that system is in almost every single game you play. From puzzle games to RPG's.

The only way that system will ever change is when game companies start making games with NPC AI that acts and talks human, because only then will cookie-cutter quests disappear. And what we will see is the unpredictability that MMO's are lacking.

I'm not flaming you dude, just simply pointing out that Blizzard is years behind compared to Bioware in terms of innovation in RPG games. Simply because Blizzard has only made one RPG game to date: WoW. While Bioware has made many. 

You didn't list a single thing that hasn't been done in other MMO's.

SWG already had space combat.  EVE and fallen earth both do crafting while ofline, and there have been other MMO's that allow you to craft without actually logging into the game.  EQ2 was "practically" entirely voiced over when it released, that was like 7 years ago.

I'm not flaming you, just pointing out that BW isn't doing anything innovative, but just redesigning systems used in other games; just like Blizzard did. 

Point taken! I didn't realize, but you are right! But all the same, I know Bioware still has a few cards up their sleeve, they always do. I know they haven't revealed a lot of end-game stuff, and have said it is a big part of their game design that they don't want to talk about.

There are a lot of good system designs out there...I think the reason why they don't get any attention is because they aren't executed to their full potential maybe, that is why WoW got so popular. For instance, I loved healing wounds in the med center, or battle fatigue in the cantina in the original SWG, one of the funnest parts of that game...

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by Uhwop

I have a question.

If the new WoW xpac turns out to be the highest selling xpac Blizzard releases, will that mean that ToR failed?

Because I'm going to laugh really hard if this xpac sells millions of copies; wich I fully expect it to.

Everyone complained when BC came out.

Everyone complained when WoLK came out.

Everyone complained when Cat came out.

That's all most people here do.  Complain about whatever game that they think is going to compete with whatever game it is they're rooting for at any particular moment.

Here's a fact.  A lot of the people who are bashing WoW now, prophesizing doom for Blizzard, and huge success for ToR or GW2 or whatever other game they're waiting for, will be rooting for some other game a few months after the game they're wating for releases.  That's what a lot of you peole here do.  You jump from one MMO to the next, and talk a bunch of junk about whatever most recent one you played.  Over and over and over and over it goes. 

Blizzard isn't going anywere, WoW isn't going anywere, but a lot of you will be moving on to the next great hype.

 

And what's your question?  What do WoW's EXPANSION sales have to do with another game's sales?  I don't get it.  Both can be successful.  Since when can only one game succeed at a time?

In a capitalist country not being number one in sales is a failure from a business standpoint. Professionally, if you break even and then make some profit, then you have succeeded. Not everyone understands that.

Originally posted by Cacophanist

Competition normally makes for better products. So when WOW and SWTOR compete we should get a better MMO right? Well not if both games are total turkeys to start with. Both are utterly unoriginal interms of game play and style, they have the same old shitty EQ style combat, same old quest and level system (yawn). 

So normally competition makes for better products but not in this case. 

Such a shame.

WoW is unoriginal, because it took what already existed and packaged it all together.

TOR is unoriginal? FPS style flight sim in an MMO, OFFLINE crafting, companions, voice-overs for EVERYONE practically.  You need to understand what innovation and creativity is before you can make a judgement like that.

Same old quest and level system...yep, that will never change.

Let me ask you something, when you go play an RPG game offline like Assassin's Creed, Final Fantasy, Dragon Age what are those games all about? A quest and leveling/advancement system. 

What do you do in ANY game? You are tasked with something and then you do it to move the game forward. Quest and level/advancement. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news man, but that system is in almost every single game you play. From puzzle games to RPG's.

The only way that system will ever change is when game companies start making games with NPC AI that acts and talks human, because only then will cookie-cutter quests disappear. And what we will see is the unpredictability that MMO's are lacking.

I'm not flaming you dude, just simply pointing out that Blizzard is years behind compared to Bioware in terms of innovation in RPG games. Simply because Blizzard has only made one RPG game to date: WoW. While Bioware has made many. 

Originally posted by Malvious

No game will destroy wow, get the fuck over it.

True words were never spoken; the players will kill it. Which I believe will happen, eventually, who knows when; but it will. 

The thing is now, people are getting tired of playing that game, and growing out of it. WoW raised the bar and a lot of shit games came out after it, trying to repeat it's success. But now, years later, we have a game company doing the EXACT thing Blizzard did. They have a huge following (BIoware is bar far one of the best RPG game developers in existence beside Square), and they are making their first MMO, and they aren't going to screw it up because LA is involved for one. SWTOR is a different game than WoW, it's more in line with what an MMORPG should be: a game within a game within a game. MMO's have evolved and both SWTOR and The Secret World will be testaments of that. WoW is falling behind in terms of innovation.

Originally posted by 8BitAvatar

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Anyone still playing wow needs their head checked. how can you play the same game for so long without thinking to yourself "i've done this before".

Aaaaaand, a lot of folks will be thinking the same thing when they try SW:TOR.

There won't be any mass exodus from WoW to SW:TOR like so many of you think. Not everyone is a Star Wars fan, and not everyone enjoys the sci-fi setting.

People still playing WoW are comfortable there; they feel safe; they feel secure.

If I had to put money on it, I'd bet a good majority of those still playing WoW are going to hang around until Titan.

Blizzard has a massive built-in fanbase. They will play just about anything Blizzard shovels out to them.

That's true, but a lot of people also don't like Warcraft and the medieval setting. I know I never played the old Warcraft games, and it took me a long time to decide to play Warcraft, but I did like it and enjoyed it. I quit because it was too much work building yourself up to a top raiding guild, and pvp at that. I have always liked sci-fi games and I did quit WoW a few times and go play other games like Tabula Rasa. If it's a good game, word will get out and people will play it. 

Topic title is RIGHT ON.

I just watched the video for the new WoW expansion...and it's seriously lame.

Burning Crusade was awesome because there was a great evil to destroy.

Wrath of the Lich King was awesome because there was an even greater evil to destroy.

Cataclysm, same thing, the world is ripped apart a huge pissed-off dragon is randomly killing people. Good stuff

Pandaria we get to sit around in monkville and let our pets fight each other...woohoo. There is no great evil, there is no impossible challenge to overcome. So why the hell would I play it? I left that game shortly after Cataclysm, but I can say the last place you would ever find my orc warrior is in Pandaria hanging out with Jack Black.

A lot of people are saying they have been wanting to see this race in the game for a while; but what race have they NOT wanted to see honestly? They say they were around before Kung-Fu Panda, but the problem is it's HORRIBLE timing. The first thing everyone thinks about when they see a Pandaran is Kung-Fu Panda, whether you don't want to or not, you will because it's been in popular culture lately.

New talent changes...that happens in every patch. New level cap...who cares. Nothing interesting in this expansion thus far. I think it's total crap for Blizzard, and even though I don't play WoW anymore, I'm disappointed at Blizzard. But who knows, this expansion could be eluding to the all mighty "Titan" they've mentioned so who knows.

Originally posted by Gibbonici

Originally posted by marquisk2

There isn't much to this game.  Just some voice overs/story.  It's all hype and won't live up to it like all the other games.  Why solo for so many levels?  It's an MMO.

Why would you solo for so many levels?

You don't have to solo, you can group and quest as well and converse wtih NPC's as a full group, everyone choosing their own response. 

If you're expecting WoW, don't play this game, because you won't like it

What will probably happen if you play this is you will rush through all the quests and realize you CAN'T go back and choose a different path, or different conversation.

People who are hyped about this game are generally people who have played Bioware games. And they've ALWAYS delivered and been number one.

Originally posted by kruler

"As for SW:TOR… I want to be excited about it, I really do, and for a number of reasons. But I’m just not."

Funny thing is i,m not excited about cottage cheese, and yet I dont create endless posts about my said 'MEH' attuide to said dairy product, even when spruced up with pineapple chunks I am still not moved, so I find it strange that so many people with a MEH attiude post on the subject of this game, dont you get the irony at all?

To those that dont here is a clue, to not be bothered or intrested in something means you wouldnt post on said subject, now if you hate the game,(which you cant as its not out yet) or love the game (which you cant as not out yet) which sadly means this site would be somewhat silent huh?

Now I must go lie down as I have reached my logical quota for the day.

The irony?

LOL! Well said my friend, well said.

I'm not saying to get hyped about it because it's "Star Wars". I'm saying get hyped about it because it's a Bioware game. Bioware has a long history of making some of the greatest breakthrough RPG's of all time.

Grinding characters in MMORPG's literally made me hate single-player RPG's in general; until I played Mass Effect. That game left me thirsty for more; and was a welcome change to the RPG norm.

For me, and probably a lot of people, Bioware has always delivered. 

Originally posted by ArEf

Man, they didn't cancel it, they rechanelled stuff to their other important franchises.

The teams have been moved to work on EverQuest 3D, Everquest in Space, Robot Unicorn EverQuest , My Little Pony's First EverQuest, The EverQuest Cooking Show and other popular and overly hyped soon to be released games.

How can you blame them for focusing on one really dull and clichéd setting? I mean, it's not like they've got a spiritual successor to EverQuest already sitting on their Station Pass.

LOL! That was amusing ahaha!

The only thing I like from SOE right now is the SWG trading card game. It's actually really fun, but unless you spend money, you don't get the cards. I got so quickly addicted, I dropped about $400 on cards the first week I played it LOL.

SOE is like that guy who has a bunch of money and buys things for everyone around him; but they don't ever want to hang out with him.

I wasn't mentioning SWG because I'm not over it; I was mentioning it because Sony doesn't innovate...in anything they do. That's why their games continue to be total crap.

The only thing they have going for them is Everquest.

And no, I didn't think The Agency was going to be any better than a pile of shit. Complete waste of money, you can take the entire game concept of The Agency and simply implement it as a game system into an already published game. If you're going to make a modern setting type of game, give it a little substance man.

You would think by this time, someone would've pulled SOE out of the MMO market because their projects keep failing. But why would anyone there be smart enough to do that? Lol...

I've seen a few people mention "realism". Yes, that is the big one right there.

What game designers NEED to do is increase realism in MMO's WITHOUT SACRIFICING gameplay and fun factor.  This is one of the biggest reasons companies fail to deliver and also because all of these new college graduates think they know how to make a video game.

Innovation will ALWAYS be key in making a good game. Because it encompasses not just game design, but also the story, the characters, the player, and the game world itself.

What needs to happen at this point in MMO history is someone needs to come out with a game that is so vastly different than the norm it attracts new players and keeps them interested because it is also fun as hell.

What game designers don't understand, and probably won't for sometime is a MMORPG has the potential to be all types of games. It can be a racing game, an adventure game, action, simulator, strategy all at once. You need to give people options, and things to do. I have yet to see a game that implemented more than one or two of these features. People don't look forward to leveling or grinding, they look forward to having a good time. Once you start sacrificing game systems for fun factor, you start down the fail trail real quick.

Can SOE fail any more?

I mean seriously, how many MMO's have they cancelled/destroyed already? They need to just stop being involved in video games and go back to making CD players LOL.

Just a rant/discussion about how SOE fails; no trolling intended; I just feel like someone should tell them to stop trying so hard.

Take a free lesson from Trion: You CAN balance 32 classes, next time don't take the easy way out and put in some effort.