| 3153 posts found | |
|---|---|
Originally posted by metalhead980
I'd say Ryzom is a great MMO for that. Open, sandbox type world. The skill/spell system is amazing; you obtain "components" from which you create customized skills. It's a bit much to explain in text, but it's very very cool. Also, as was mentioned, the world is very alive, and crafting is a whole other thing.... there are different types of materials for use in a given recipe, they go by quality level and, I believe, origin. So, if you need "lining", for example, you can get lining from a variety of sources, but the quality level of that material has an effect on the final result. Similarly, the color is derived from where the material comes from.. Again, a lot to explain, but very very cool setup. I'd be interested in what the OP is discussing as well, incidentally :)
|
|
|
State of The Game Adress-The true meaning behind David Allen's words.
General Discussion « Alganon 11/26/09 11:19:12 PM
"Infrequent expansions can only add so much before you are back to the same thing again, thats why we won't even make it to the first." |
|
Originally posted by Acidon
|
|
Originally posted by Ruyn
2 minutes and 30 seconds of people shooting balls of light at each other? PvP isn't just mass fighting. There's no depth in DF combat. Lineage 2 has better pvp then DF.
It's one video. Illustrating a point about terrain. If you want different pvp check out dork: www.youtube.com/watch What you see here is better pvp than any of the games you just listed. On top of that this is open world pvp. PvP with meaning and substance.
Well I agree, the first video was not impressive - and find it humorous that you'd dismiss it as "just one video", after you specifically chose it to show off DF PvP.
|
|
Originally posted by Einstein-DF
Tasos is not fat
:-p |
|
Originally posted by darkgamerx
I was just thinking that and am surprised it took this long to happen, to be honest. Traditionally it's been the rabid Darkfall fans invading seemingly every and any thread that has anything even remotely to do with PvP, declaring DF the be all end all of all MMOs, responding to any who disagree with their special blend of "you're-just-carebears-who-can't-handle-real-PvP-just-look-how-big-my-epeen-is-growing-by-just-talking-about-DF-I-am-cool-incarnate-and-Tasos-is-my-God" nonsense. Hell, Einstein just declared it "#1 PvP MMO" a few posts ago. They've locked themselves in their own little world, blacked out all the windows, thrown away the key and they ain't coming out. Kinda reminds me of the chorus for that song "Room 429" by Cop Shoot Cop. Now we have Mortal Online to share the battlefield. Yay.
|
|
Originally posted by metalhead980
Empire Space....need I say more? WarDecs, Baiting, consensual pvp (dueling), Suicides, mercs, market pvp, scams, politics, FW, Wormholes Dude Eve has more pvp options in empire alone than Darkfall. actually play Eve. empire is not pve only. DF could gain a lot by adding in a Empire type area or continent to the game mainly a 200% increase in subs so you have more people to join against and with.
Of course, once you got off the island and into the main game.... *whole* different story. But still, I don't think it'd be a bad idea. PvE and PvP *can* co-exist in a mostly PvP MMO. I don't know why some people can't seem to grasp that. If the PvE content supports or otherwise ties into the PvP, then it's perfectly appropriate. This is how Lineage 2 manages it. For example... The Seven Seals event. Two different sides, Dusk or Dawn. The activity itself is entirely PvE. You choose a side, go into a catacomb and start killing the crap out of stuff to collect seal stones which are then turned in as "points" for your side. There are also Festivals of Darkness which are a sort of mini-event unto themselves, but also strictly PvE in that you're directly fighting mobs... your score also goes toward the total for your side. However... Here's where it ties into PvP... If you are a castle owner... you want Dawn to win and so will fight for that side. Why? Because Dawn winning has the effect of strengthening your Castle's defenses, among a number of other things. So, if you're trying to keep a castle that's being sieged, it's in your benefit to fight for Dawn. If you want to take a castle, you want to sign for Dusk because that has, among other things, the effect of weakening castle walls, it puts a cap on the maximum tax rate a castle lord can charge for their castle's territory, etc. And then there's the indirect competition in the activities themself. Such as opposing sides signing up for Festivals to try and get the higher score to push their side over the top and get the win. There's been a lot of "ninja-ing" of Dusk in the past when a clan or ally would hang low and then come in at the last minute, take the Festivals and win it for Dusk. So... again... when ever I see the self-described "hardcore PvPers" bashing on PvE content like it's something horrible, I just have to scratch my head in wonder.
|
|
Originally posted by Einstein-DF I think the poll/topic and resulting discussion has demonstrated one thing for sure... You can't simply ask "what's the best PvP MMO?", because there are so many variations on that theme. It seems obvious when you think about it, but I guess it's one of those things that no one really thinks about. If nothing else, this thread is providing an interesting insight into what people look for in a PvP MMO, more so than what's the "best" PvP MMO. Unless you eliminate the subjective factors and deal strictly in objectives, like subscription numbers, for example, which are what they are regardless of personal perception, then it's an impossible question to answer, really. The poll results would seem to indicate, at least when I last saw them, that the most people who'd voted here up to that point feel DF provides them the best PvP experience that they're looking for. |
|
|
I voted for Lineage 2. PvP anyone, anytime, almost anywhere (except in towns). And, in all cases, the PvP has purpose in the game. It's not just all random ganking for the sake of showing how uber you are. Most everything you PvP for has an influence on *some* aspect of the game, directly or indirectly. There's a lot more I could go into in terms of specific exampls, etc... but suffice to say that for PvP, L2 is the only MMO I feel has gotten it "right". Now if only NC were as good at dealing with RMT :-/
|
|
Originally posted by gauge2k3
The reason people raced to end game is because most developers make most of an mmorpg mind numbing grind, via quests or other, to the actual fun part of the game. FFXI was fun the entire way. I, in no way, felt the urge to move faster, because every level had some sort of excitement and fun. I could have just as much fun at levels 30 as I could at higher levels.
See, that's subjective, though. People have insisted that the low and mid-level game in WoW was boring. I found it entertaining with some very interesting storylines and such. I was actually annoyed that I'd out-level content before I got to go through it at the appropriate level, because Blizzard never seems to feel that leveling is fast enough - and neither do many of their customers, it seems. Same with LoTRO. Same with a number of other MMOs. I typically find that the players have convinced themselves that low and mid level game doesn't matter... because it's all about "the finish line". It's all about getting there as quickly as possible, and anything that doesn't get them there faster is "a waste". Anything that doesn't get them the most uber drops is "a waste". Some simply play for the action, and that's fine. A storyline wouldn't interest them. However, I think many people who think the whole point of playing a MMO is to get to end-game might very well enjoy the journey more - if they could slow themselves down enough to actually *experience* it.
|
|
Originally posted by DonnieBrasco
Wrong.. this is actually still true. Don't forget to add rule#2 as well: powergamers with no life will still rush to the cap and whine, no matter the difficulty and grind you put in an MMO they had to fight across to reach it :D Oh, and on the FE part: level cap is planned for 150. Seriously. Ask Lee again. DB
Meh... hate to pick-nits here, and I often agree with ya... but in this case, there is always an end-game... essentially, the point at which a character cannot -currently- progress anymore. And that is the point a number of players will race like mad to get to... for whatever sense of achievement they have for doing so. Then the level cap is raised, limits are increased, and so they race for the new finish line... ad nauseum. Never understood the point of racing to the end-game myself... but then I've always been about the journey. But I'd agree.. there's always some point in a MMO that you can define as "end-game"... just that it gets moved as time goes on. |
|
Originally posted by Holgranth I for one am increasingly convinced that David Allen has lost all his creativity and origionality. If you read the interview snippets that I posted earlier he basically says that the reason people are attacking Alganon for being like WoW is because every other mmo that has been launched recently has spent millions of dollars in advertizing trying to convince gamers that similar is bad. Not that we are tired of low quality WoW derivitives and want somthing new and different. What we really want is more games similar to WoW we have just been brainwashed into thinking otherwise. Yeah... I read that bit from the interview, too, and thought "Oh, what a spin-tastic crock of s--t".
|
|
|
One of the MOST Pathetic Things I've Ever Seen...
Off-Topic Discussion « General Discussion 11/25/09 2:21:54 PM
Words fail me. Did he buy the game willingly? Yes.
|
|
Originally posted by Devour
This made me lol. The bitterness and terror that MO puts into Darkfall fanbois is beautiful.
Yeah... enthusiastic and shameless self-contradiction is one of many "tactics" rabid DF fans use when "debating" on their forums. It was funny, if predictable, for a while. Then it became just plain sad to witness. That said, MO's looking good. I can definitely see Epic rebuilding the engine from the ground up to support large streaming worlds being put to good use in some of the videos. The world design seems decent... From what I've seen, it seems the graphics engine carries this game's look for the most part. But then I haven't seen much of it, so I could be wrong there. Curious to see how it pans out. For right now, I'll be watching this one to see how it pans out after launch. |
|
Originally posted by Laughing-man
I find this part of your post misguided. The grouping became excessively tedious, I don' tknow if you actually played FFXI before any of those changes but as someone who has leveled over 250 levels prior to that going live... I waited DAYS for parties sometimes... literally logged in, during peak hours, waited DAYS OF REAL LIFE TIME to find a party. Ironically - but not surprisingly - I find parties much more difficult even to put together *since* they added all those new features, because people are now soloing/duoing or just doing Campaign Battles. The things you say changed and perhaps ruined grouping forever are probably the reasons why people still play this game. The social element will always be there, you can't solo missions, you can't solo the new content, you can't solo anything, you still need to group, that doesn't change the social aspect at all. It will always be the strongest grouping oriented game on the market. The things they added only helped it.
|
|
|
Good article overall. Just one nit-pick: FFXI supports English, Japanese, French and German languages via the autotranslator now. One other thing is the mention of Fields of Valor and Level Sync. While I agree that SE's intention was likely to add content that would allow people something to do while waiting for a party (Fields of Valor), and a way to deal with the ever-present challenge of finding players within the right level range to keep the xp as good as possible (level sync)... I don't think they thought it through as thoroughly as they could have. Instead of supplementing parties, those two features (as well as Campaign Battle), have helped in subverting grouping in the game. Instead of seeing Fields of Valor as something to do while waiting for a party, many players are leveling solely through it in lieu of partying at all - at most, they have a friend or two they "static" them with. Instead of level sync being used as a way to close the odd level or two difference to keep a party's level range ideal, people are using it as a way to level to 75 in far lower level areas, which then makes it much more difficult to assemble or find higher level parties. So... while the ideas unto themselves are great... assuming SE still values the "grouping" aspect of the game... I don't believe they thought those ideas through thoroughly enough. So now, instead of being supplemental content to xp parties... people have turned those activities into replacements for xp parties. I personally think that Campaign Battle + Level Sync + Fields of Valor (not to mention Astral Burn parties that seem to be "the norm" for many) = the deterioration of grouping and, thus, a key part of XI's social element, which has always been one of its star features. |
|
|
Very, very good article. And there are a number of other examples to be sure. Now, I can understand if it happens to a few MMOs earlier on... DAoC and AO, for example, might have become the unwilling "sacrificial lambs" in order for that lesson to be learned: Don't screw with the game that earned you the following you have in the first place. In other words: Don't fix it if it isn't broken. Yet, it seems many developers didn't learn this lesson. They didn't pay enough attention to what their existing players loved about the game in order to decide what the best way would be to expand on it without killing what the players loved in the first place. I sometimes wonder if other developers keep themselves in a bubble and don't bother to ever see what's going on around them among their contemporaries. Or, maybe it all comes down to the ever-reviled "suits" high in their corporate towers who don't understand gamers, don't understand gamers... and don't want to. They only understand numbers and $$$. In any case... that's a very key thing that I wish more developers would pick up on. Identify what the strength is of your game... and then improve and build on it. When your players clearly love PvP based more on skill than on gear stats... then you build on that foundation. You don't say "Okay, they love skill-centric PvP, so let's add a whole bunch of PvE content in for very stat-centric gear"... that's just plain stupid and the inevitable outcry over such a move should be well expected by now.
|
|
|
I agree with a post earlier in this thread... Grind is subjective. What one person thinks is a "miserable grind", like leveling, another player will think is a relaxing way to enjoy some time in game while he chats with friends in-game or on Vent. I actually fall into this category in L2. To me, grinding xp is what you do while hanging out with cool people, and the time just flies by. In Final Fantasy XI, I loved xp parties - they could go for 4 hours and I'd enjoy them, so long as it was a good group and we were doing okay. Others consider leveling in FFXI to be a miserable grind. Some people find crafting to be an annoying grind that they "have to do" just to get their crafting good enough to make profitable items. Some people make a science out of it - finding the optimum way to find the best materials at the best prices (free if possible) then working the auction house to find the best times to sell them, etc. etc. Good friend of mine in FFXI literally did not xp any jobs for like 4 months because he was so caught up in working the market, finding the most cost-effective ways to level a craft, etc. He loved it. Others can't stand it. It all comes down to the individual. There's no way a developer can "eliminate grind" because there's no way they can control how people perceive different content. I have this thing about that whole "the developers have to do something about it". What exactly do they have to do? MMORPGs are what they are. They're long-term online games that are ever expanding (ideally) where developing a character is a key part. Even in real life, skill is acquired through repetition. And maybe that's the key. If you find MMOs to be too grindy for your liking and you can't enjoy leveling or crafting, or obtaining better gear over a long period of time.... then perhaps the best answer is not to play MMOs? There are certainly plenty of other people who *do* enjoy that kind of thing, so is it fair to say that "there's something wrong with it" because you don't enjoy it personally? I'd say not. I don't find the idea of hitting a ball across a golf course and then chasing after it to be very exciting or interesting.... doens't mean there's something "wrong" with the activity that needs to be addressed, as plenty of others obviously enjoy it quite a lot as it is. To me, it's not about what the developers should do to "fix" the problem. It comes down to the players taking some accountability for their own time and decide, by say, deciding to walk away from something they don't enjoy doing.
|
|
Originally posted by wowfan1996 Why do people think it helps their argument to use extreme examples that likely no one would agree with in order to argue an idea they personally don't agree with? In other words... having to loot a corpse 5-10 times to loot 50 silver coins is not equivalent to pressing an attack button to use said attack. It's one or two extra attacks than most people are used to pressing now during a normal fight. Maybe to you it is, wowfan... but I'm fairly confident it wouldn't be a deal breaker to many others. And, frankly, I think that with all the other conveniences players have been given in many MMOs, such as... I mean seriously. It's gotten to the point where some MMOs have been reduced to little more than success dispensers. Don't think. Don't challenge yourself. Do as little as possible... but still be rewarded for it. Yeah.. *that's* fun. |
|
Originally posted by Yamota Nope, certainly not anything wrong with a game catering to a certain type of people. However I fail too see how a game that is supposedly focused on PvP actually discourages you from doing it with very high penalties for losing. If lets say, american football, lead to the losing side losing everything they have how many would you think would engage in it? Anyway, what you are saying is that Eve is not a fairplay game and I can accept that. But what is so good about it not being a fairplay game? Eve is a game right?
Yes... a game that has had a vibrant and growing population with frequent, often large-scale PvP actually "discourages PvP" because you don't like the setup. Brilliant. Repeat after me: "There is nothing wrong with Eve Online's setup. It's simply not set up in a way that I would enjoy". There... Easy right?
|
|
