Originally posted by Teala

BTW - to this day I still use the double :: to describe an action(for those not familiar with the syntax - think /emote) ::walks to the bar and sits at one of the empty seats::

Like when I am writing in forums I even go and do stuff like this out of habit ::rolls her eyes:: or ::sighs::

Originally posted by Teala

 

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Originally posted by Cemm

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Originally posted by Teala

Wow...want to talk about old school. :D I remember AOL - what was it like $2 or $3 something an hour - right? I found the free form role playing community. Had lots of fun in the Red Dragon Inn and The Red Star Station(< These were prose chat rooms for role players) and also Gemstone III.

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Hehe, who did you play in the RDI and Gemstone III?  I got my start gaming in the Red Dragon Inn and RhyDin and then Gemstone and later Dragonrealms as well.  It wasn't until relatively recently that I even started bothering with the graphical games really.

On the old NWN thing, what company was running the game when AOL went unlimited?  I don't know if it was the case with the old NWN, but some games that were linked through AOL for a long time ended up breaking off and going it alone (like Simutronic's MUDs Gemstone and DragonRealms).

Could it have been a contract disagreement of some sort between that company and AOL that led to NWN's demise?

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That is where I got hooked on online role playing was the RDI, RSS and Mermaids Tale Tavern. As for who I played...wow...to many drugs, hang-overs and such has erased that part of my memory. LOL! I remember that was when Vampire the Masq was pretty big thing. I dunno in Rhydin you could come across Space Privateers to Vampire Princess's...all good fun! Remember dueling in the RDI. Peoples characters getting drunk. Lurkers. Strippers on the bar and tables. Fun stuff! I did more RP'ing in RSS and MTT, they were more controlled environments compared to the free for all of the RDI.

For those that are lost - you'd have to have been there. OMG the words would fly across your screen. Learned to type pretty quick as well in those RP rooms.

Oh I remember some of the topics we'd discuss on the forums, too. I remember talking about what if someday there was a 3D online world to role play in? I remember some of the responses going something like - never going to happen. To write a program for such a thing would take years and they'll never have computers powerful enough for a home user that would be affordable. Well...I guess they were wrong huh?

Originally posted by Teala

Wow...want to talk about old school. :D I remember AOL - what was it like $2 or $3 something an hour - right? I found the free form role playing community. Had lots of fun in the Red Dragon Inn and The Red Star Station(< These were prose chat rooms for role players) and also Gemstone III.

Originally posted by Tacola

Originally posted by Cemm

Originally posted by Tacola

Originally posted by Hexxeity
That's amusing.

A poll on this very fanboi-infested forum shows that a majority of people who bought the game will be quitting (or taking an extended break) after the free month.

So even if there are a lot of n00bs signing up, it won't matter.  They, too, will be gone after a month.  Anyone who is rabid enough to pretend to enjoy the game bought it at launch.

What game are you playing and why are you here again?  And why would you care if Vanguard succeeds or not.  Unless you are again another one whose outcry for help is because Vanguard is taking away your games subs.  Otherwise why care about a game you obviously dont like?

How long ago now did Vanguard launch?

How many servers did Vanguard launch with?

How many servers does Vanguard have now?

Although what you posted has nothing to do with what you quoted, I do have to ask you...

What game are you playing and why are you here again?  And why would you care if Vanguard succeeds or not.  Unless you are again another one whose outcry for help is because Vanguard is taking away your games subs.  Otherwise why care about a game you obviously dont like?

Originally posted by Tacola

Originally posted by Hexxeity
That's amusing.

A poll on this very fanboi-infested forum shows that a majority of people who bought the game will be quitting (or taking an extended break) after the free month.

So even if there are a lot of n00bs signing up, it won't matter.  They, too, will be gone after a month.  Anyone who is rabid enough to pretend to enjoy the game bought it at launch.

What game are you playing and why are you here again?  And why would you care if Vanguard succeeds or not.  Unless you are again another one whose outcry for help is because Vanguard is taking away your games subs.  Otherwise why care about a game you obviously dont like?

I still think they should go back to doing what has worked for them with their text-based games and get a small working and 99% unblemished by serious bugs game world together with the basic combat/adventure systems and a whole lot of roleplaying support in place and launch from there.  People used to pay almost $10 an hour on GEnie during prime time to play the earliest versions of Gemstone, and we’re talking about a MUD that at that time had a very small amount of rooms and very rudimentary systems compared to the massive world and complexity of the game today.

Obviously, taking this route would SEEM to be a far departure from the typical MMORPG launch where they supposedly have tried to get as close to ‘finished’ a product as they could in their development window (which almost never actually happens in this industry, re: numerous ‘complete’ MMORPG’s like Vanguard that have launched riddled with bugs), but doing it the other way has worked like a charm for Simutronics in the past and, as noted, few non-Blizzard products ever actually end up launching after they’re well and truly “done” anyway so it’d be nothing truly new.

I’d be interested to know how much more expensive and hardware intensive running graphical game servers is than running text-based game servers?  I’ve always assumed ‘much more so’, but can recall a few times reading comments from developers that insisted there wasn’t too much difference.  If it is true that there isn’t much difference, then launching a small but working game now and just continuing development through continual free patches over time might not be a bad idea.  They could run as many servers as was profitable, even if the crowd of players was very small due to the style of launch, and then slowly add more servers as the game content grew over time.

A great deal of Hero’s Journey content is *already* being developed by volunteers, so there is no cost impact there.  Having a small but rabidly dedicated community (a lot of which would probably come from the small but rabidly dedicated communities of their MUDs) would be helpful too.  It’s part of what ended up making Gemstone great as the game grew around and beyond that initial ‘golden age’ community that established itself in the early days.

If development continues at a steady and visible pace and remains at a high level of quality, word of mouth will spread and more and more players will get interested.  Simutronics has dominated the MUD industry for two decades because their text-based games were light years removed from anything else out there.  While Blizzard similarly dominates the graphical industry these days for similar reasons, a product like Hero’s Journey with high production values and polish could be positioned to really succeed where games like Vanguard are *falling short.

* note that my suggestion that they’re falling short is a matter of opinion and perspective, and mostly refers to how Blizzard commands close to ten million subscribers while almost every other game out there struggles to maintain two hundred to three hundred thousand subscribers.  At today’s subscription rates, I’m fairly certain any title that can claim a couple hundred thousand subscribers is a financial success, but is certainly no match for the 800 pound gorilla.

Originally posted by elvenangel

I stand corrected then.  But you have to admit even with these partnerings its very different than say Sigil with SOE's partnering. 

 

As for simutronics being uncommunicative..the product isn't released they don't have to tell us anything.   I never had a problem with customer service when I played their MUDS unlike say some of the MMORPGS where they ignore serious issues to avoid possible blame.

I was someone that was avidly looking forward to Vanguard since the first mention of its development and I was thrilled to finally be invited into beta when I was.  I did not find the game to be as impressive and breathtaking as I had hoped it would be, but it was still a title I heavily considered until the end of beta. 

My review after my time testing is that Vanguard is a decent game with the potential to eventually be a great one.  Currently, I think it is likely to appeal to a certain set of gamers, especially those who enjoyed the overall experience of Everquest and the updated graphics of Everquest II.  Also, I imagine it is more likely to appeal to gamers with more time on their hands to play than those with less, but it does appear Sigil is reaching out to the casual gamers as well.

I found Vanguard’s graphics to be very similar to Everquest II’s, and the attempt at an open and seamless gameworld was a big improvement there as well (I did not like how modular EQ2 felt).  I think that vast improvement over the next year or so, like bringing the world to life with many more roaming NPCs and wildlife, making the history and story of the world more immersive at all corners, and other upgrades could really make this game special.

Ultimately, I decided not purchase my pre-order and just watch the further development of the game over the next year or so to see how it improves.  I had heavily considered going ahead and purchasing the pre-order and just not subscribing, but I’m not that optimistic that this one will develop into something I would enjoy playing.  This is primarily for personal taste and isn’t necessarily a negative comment about Sigil or Vanguard.

In its current form and direction, it is hard to imagine Vanguard proving to be any real competition to well polished high production value Blizzard products (current ones like WoW and those successors rumored to be on the way), but I suspect it will be successful in its own right.  Certainly as much or better than games like SWG or EQ2 currently are (200,000ish subscribers) and might well draw many fans from out of those games since the look is fairly similar.

Originally posted by Hrothmund

Originally posted by Cemm
What level is ZG?  I've played WoW off and on but never really gotten familiar enough to know all the acronyms.  I assume ZG is a high level instance?

ZG is a 20-man level 60 raid instance.

I'm at least a bit saddened by the fact that all the raid instances I've learned to love and hate in the past have been made obsolete with TBC. I still remember all the fun times I had with my guild in ZG when we were not raiding MC, BWL, AQ 40 or Naxx. Those were the days.

Elvenangel,

I’ve been a long time subscriber of Simutronics games as well, dating back to 1994 through GEnie and later AOL and then Play.net.  Hero’s Journey development has definitely been an ongoing topic for around a decade now.  Some suggest that development started, stalled and was dropped, and has started up again in the last few years with a wholly new direction.  I’ve never seen comments confirming this to the letter, but I can confirm that the glimpses of Hero’s Journey we see now are completely different than the screenshots of what they were originally working on (and thank goodness for that!).

Simutronics HAS also partnered with other companies before.  Gemstone II (launched in 1988) was based around the village of Squire’s Bluff, but Simutronics partnered with Iron Crown Enterprises (often referred to as I.C.E.) for Gemstone III (launched 1990).  The relationship lasted about five years and Gemstone III went through what their community has always referred to as the ‘deICEing’ and was upgraded again in 1996 (this was the effort to remove all ICE lore and names from Gemstone as it moved forward, for instance, the central town known as Kelfour’s Landing became Wehnimer’s Landing, the planet called Kulthea became Elanthia, etc.).

Simutronics also partnered with Universal Studios to some degree on the product ‘Hercules & Xena: Alliance of Heroes’ during the height of the popularity of the Hercules and Xena TV shows in the mid-90’s.  I’m not sure what became of that relationship, but the game has since been re-titled simply ‘Alliance of Heroes’ and soldiers on despite its small subscription numbers.

I wish Simutronics would consider a Station-like account plan that would allow access to all its games.  Modus Operandi is actually a really cool game I’d probably play occasionally if I didn’t have to pay for another account subscription to do it on top of the premium subscriptions I already have for Gemstone IV and DragonRealms.

Not that I disagree with the core sentiments of the OP’s post, but I’m compelled to clear up some of the minor mistakes made.

Based on what I know of the MUD/MUSH/etc. industry (if you can call it that), Simutronics has definitely been the world leader for close to 20 years now (will be two decades on Oct. 23, 2007).  So we definitely agree there.  Even if other MUDs have at times challenged individual Simutronics games in numbers of players online at various points, I don’t know that any other company has ever truly been in the same ballpark in scope, depth, and profit gained from their games (check out topmudsites.com for an idea of some of what else is out there and how much traffic they get).  Simutronics is definitely the 800 pound gorilla of MUDs.

Simutronics has actually developed multiple different products over the years.  While Gemstone (versions I, II, III, and now IV, and separate Platinum subscription game instance) and DragonRealms (versions I and II, and separate Platinum and ‘The Fallen’ game instances) are certainly the flagship products (each ‘prime instance’ of the games still averaging 700+ players online during primetime US hours), there have also been several smaller projects such as Alliance of Heroes (originally Hercules & Xena, and focused on the setting that appeared in those popular TV shows), and Modus Operandi (set in the modern era on a tropical island, diversely themed to include cloak and dagger sleuthing type content).  There were also the two graphical offerings of Cyberstrike. 

Rates for access to Simutronics games, paid through GEnie and later AOL and other services like Prodigy, were never by the minute.  Those services charged hourly rates, though they certainly added up and could, like in the case of GEnie, by quite steep during prime time hours.  When Simutronics left their agreements with those companies to go it alone on the web with Play.net in 1997, they offered monthly plans similar (but originally cheaper!) to what we see today with all graphical games.

Also, there have never been more than 3000 users logged into any single Simutronics product at once.  Perhaps not even more than 2500.  The most likely peak of Simutronics popularity came in the months after AOL broke the internet mold and went to flat-priced subscription fees in December of 1996.  Simutronics customer hours, with its flagship games now accessed ‘for free’ from AOL and similar, leaped from 750,000 to 2 million per month (1.4 million of those hours and 2000 simultaneous users logged in Gemstone III). 

It is possible that Simutronics was pushing 3500+ customers logged in during prime time with all its products combined (GS, DR, etc.).  I would venture to guess that all of Simutronics’ games combined still enjoy close to 2000 simultaneous users during the prime time hours (conservative estimates based on what I see logging into the main two games and from login numbers available on websites: 700+ in both GSIV and DR2 prime, another 80+ in GSIV and DR Platinum with 80+ in DR The Fallen, and 30+ in AoH and MO, give or take around 300+ spread amongst the games).

While Simutronics is definitely a small company and always has been, it was once listed #295 on a respected top 500 list of fastest growing private companies in the country.  That was 1999 though and at the height of its popularity, right as the first big graphical games were finally coming onto the scene to really blow the entire industry out of the water.  If the text-based industry was a small gaming niche even back then, it was never more so than after that obviously.

I would love to see Hero’s Journey get released, but I’m not devoted to the idea that it will ever happen for various reasons already touched on in this thread.  I often wonder if it wouldn’t be a good idea to not try and emulate the big companies and go back to what has always worked for them.  The original Gemstone was a very small and very rough around the edges game.  Nonetheless, there was enough magic about it that it has grown to become a franchise that has lasted twenty years.

Maybe Simutronics should return to that with Hero’s Journey, get the game into a rough but workable status, and launch it as is for download and play over the web.  I guess a lot depends on how much more a strain graphical games are on servers than text-based games might be and how many users are needed to support the costs.  If they could manage the basics of what they had in their original text-based offering, and maintained the kind of events-running GM presence they’ve been able to in those games, people WOULD pay to play.

Originally posted by Kryogenic

WHy are you gonna be taking all your equipment off and runnign around naked alot?

I don't see what the big deal is. If you want your character to be barefoot for RP purposes, just put on the starter gatherer's outift... everyone gets it froma quest anyway.