There is not an arrow pointing to your enemy at all times except in VIP missions, and only then on the VIP themselves. If someone is sprinting, they become visible on the radar. If you trot up behind someone, you're invisible to them and can almost always get the drop on them if they're facing the wrong way. There were a ton of little tricks like this that most people were oblivious to.

Originally posted by Wraithone

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Schubi

Well since it only uses the engine it mustn't be as bad as Entropia i assume.

Regarding Entropia being a terrible game there are people who enjoy it and i have also played it in the past, but since mindark is too greedy and managed to totally screw up the ingame economy it is much too expensive for the regular player.

For example if you want to get anywhere as a hunter/pker in Entropia you should be able to at least invest somewhere between 20000-30000 USD for equipment somewhere down the line or you'll be stuck at mid-level forever. And you should be ready to pay an additional 100-200 USD on top of that every month to keep going unless you are very lucky of course,

So basically just never being able to get to the "engame content" or play with the big guns makes it very unattractive for the average joe.  You can get uber in any game if you invest enough time, in Entropia you also need to have tons of money.

OK now, that's some serious money, which I'd have to say disqualifies me from playing if true.

But if there are people wealthy enough to pay this sort of fee without protest, then perhaps this is just the game for them, doesn't make it necessarily a bad game, just designed for a wealthier class of gamer.

Played it for a bit more than a month myself. In that time I spent around $100 for armor and other such.  Its not a bad game all things considered, its design just doesn't hang together as well as I'd expect.   But I totally agree that it can get expensive fast if one isn't careful.

I don't see a problem with Entropia's potential costs making it exclusive either. In the late 80's and early 90's, when widespread access to the internet was first becoming available, it was prohibitively expensive too. To access GEnie during prime time US hours to chat or play a text-based MUD like Gemstone could run you more than $10 an hour. $1500 bills were not unheard of at all. Makes that $60 a month cable bill and $15 a month MMO subscription look pretty good now huh?

I'm as glad as anyone else that we have cheap unlimited broadband connections these days and flat rate monthly subscriptions to most of the games we love. The people willing to pay thousands of dollars a month for their hobbies are still out there in large numbers though and Entropia caters to them and their resources.

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Ok, let's look at this game.  It does not have great graphics nor great gameplay, yet it is probably the most expensive MMO out there.  True if you are lucky enough you can actually get some return on your investment in this game.  Again that is a big if. 

So if you play the game for the money aspect it is pretty much outright gambling.  If you do it for fun I would just have to question why, as there are so many far better games to have fun in these days.

So belittle my comments all you want.  I still see no reason for any one to waste time on it myself.  I have not seen one comment in this thread that offers any evidence to the contrary besides saying it is fun.  I guess some people are masachists when it comes to grind because this game has it and you have to pay heavily for it.   If that is what you call fun, well I guess it takes all types...

The engine upgrade actually improved the graphics tremendously in my opinion. Certainly it is a prettier game than aging offerings like Everquest 2 and City of Heroes. The total package isn't on par with Age of Conan or maybe Aion either though, but there aren't many MMOs that are right now.

I don't understand why you and so many others feel like this has to be a right or wrong answer kind of question. There is no right or wrong answer to taste in MMOs. If you like Jazz, it doesn't make someone who likes Heavy Metal wrong. If you like paying Blizzard $15 a month for WoW, it doesn't make someone who wants to spend $100 a month gambling on Entropia wrong.

I understand how you may have overlooked my huge block of text a page or two ago in this thread, especially since my experience doesn't support your argument whatsoever, but I felt like I offered a fair example of how Entropia can be fun without a large or any investment. Now, if you're a hardcore gamer that likes to raid for 8 hours a night, you're likely to run up the bills fast in Entropia (where there isn't any raiding anyway). Someone who just wants to do some exploring and socialize can have a great time though for a little or no investment at all.

What's 100 hours of gameplay into 10 dollars invested spread over the 10 months since the graphics upgrade when I started my occassional playing? I'm averaging 10 hours of playtime a month at 10 cents an hour or something like that? That's not exactly breaking the bank is it?

I really enjoyed Entropia when I tried it out and still log in occassionally, though rarely these days with so many other new games to play. For years before the graphical upgrade, I thought the game looked like garbage and so wouldn't touch it. It's the same reason I never tried Everquest. It looked hideous.

The upgrade to the new engine changed all that and got my attention though. I can't really comment on the game mechanics of hunting and any of the higher level stuff because I never did them much or advanced far enough to experience the content, but the game world itself is beautiful now and fun to explore.

I only made a single payment of ten dollars to buy some cheap gear because I wanted to try out hunting and didn't even do that enough to use all of the initial pistol and rifle ammo I bought. I've never had to pay to repair any of my gear after the initial repair of my newbie jumpsuit (you start with your newbie jumpsuit in low repair, or at least did when I started).

Since I didn't invest in lots of ammo and do a lot of hunting I never advanced very far either, of course, but I really enjoyed just running around the absolutely massive world (parts of two huge continents are what I was able to explore with the skills I had) and trying things out.

Exploring was kind of a mini game of its own since the wilderness is extremely dangerous to newbie characters. So the game as I jogged about sightseeing was keeping an eye on my radar, noting where the often enormous dinosaur like creatures and such actually where in the distance, and trying to avoid them as I snuck passed or around them on my way.

Anyway, I'm just saying that I think this game gets a bad rap to some degree as people focus on the real money trading aspect of it too much. I agree it is unlikely and maybe impossible for someone hell bent on 'leveling' quickly like one might be used to with other MMOs to do so without putting a lot of money they are extremely unlikely to get a return on into the game.

That said, I've put about 100 hours into it over the months since the graphics engine upgrade and spent only 10 bucks that I paid right after I started. That seems like a pretty good deal for me given that it'd have been spending $15 a month if it'd have been some mainstream subscription MMO I was spreading those gameplay hours over instead.

So based on my own experience treating this one as essentially a free to play game (minus my small initial payment I guess), someone with a love of exploring could easily have a great time just spending about what they already spend on existing MMOs (15ish bucks a month) and keeping the mindset that it is like a subscription fee just like they do with WoW or similar. Then if they kill something or discover some mining deposit and get a big prize it is just a nice surprise and not something they were counting on for their fun.

My recommendation would be to do what I do and keep your pay to play MMOs that eat up the lionshare of your hobby time, then keep games like Entropia installed for when you want a little change of pace. Then enjoy it as you like whenever you like without any pressure.

I just saw a really interesting thought in another thread. They weren't intending to point this out, but it begs the question I'm about to ask.

The poster suggested that Star Trek Online has about 60-80 hours of good content. They also suggested this was just fine for a single player game but not for an MMO. Finally, it was pointed out that they bought the game for $29.99.

My question is this: How does this hurt anyone but Cryptic?

It sounds to me that anyone buying STO and playing through the content in their free month of playtime will more than get their money's worth right? Most good single player games sell for $49.99 starting out, and you're doing great if you can get 60-80 hours of playtime out of them. I got 60ish for both Mass Effects and Dragon Age Origins, for instance.

Yeah, as an MMO player you really want to get a world you can sink your teeth into and spend hundreds of hours in for a couple of years, but as a consumer if the 60-80 hours of content you do get is genuinely entertaining and you play through it in a month or two, all with the option to play with as many friends as you'd like (the MMO supported aspect), that seems like a pretty decent deal right?

What do you all think? I tried STO in beta and was not impressed and didn't continue playing it. I also completely understand the disappointment of fans looking for their next big MMO, but I have to wonder at the severity of the complaints if the game is actually fun at least for long enough for players to get their money's worth like they'd expect from a single player game.

To the OP,

I'm running two GTX 280's in SLI and was having some graphical issues related to textures after install as well.  Updating to the latest drivers completely fixed this for me though and I've noticed no issues at all since while going through the same areas as you (went to South Burb right out of the tutorial).  After sporadically playing during the closed beta, feeling very uninspired, and then dropping it completely for the last few months, I'm actually extremely impressed with the game since launch.

As with any MMO, I think the onus is probably on you to keep trying to make ripples in the pond by throwing more stones.  Yes, people are hurrying about and trying to level up like they do in every game.  I've still had no problem getting people to respond to me in Local and even help out with tasks that I wasn't sure I could tackle on my own.

If the setting and atmosphere doesn't work for you, then it just doesn't and that's cool. It's definitely a change of pace from swords and sorcery. I am excited about what seems like the closest thing to a Fallout MMO we're going to see anytime soon, so I'm sticking with it for sure.

I'm in the open beta and am not sold yet.  Is it just one mission zone after another or do you ever end up in the city where you can just hang out and wander around?  Is there any support for that?  Like in CoX there are the nightclubs and in WoW there are taverns and inns and so on.  Does CO end up offering any of that or is it just 100% action?

Originally posted by Kamandi777

This is my MMo where the mild mannered Kamandi becomes a destroyer of souls, a master of war, a PWNER OF NOOBS! 

Yeeeaaah.  Sorry, the internet tough guy griefer routine always leaves me thinking the person spewing it most likely actually this guy, this guy, or this guy.   Where's a link to that hilarious audio of those guys claiming to be able to shut down entire servers with their griefing antics?  The funniest part was how they were dead serious about it all too.  LOL

EDIT:  Oh wow, how did I forget this guy?

http://www.mmogamer.com/05/01/2009/from-gemstone-to-heroengine-simutronics-ceo-david-whatley-on-putting-the-mud-back-into-mmos

Interview with Simutronics' CEO and co-founder David Whatley about the engine and this MMO.

Is the saying 'I don't care what talking about me, just as long as they're still talking about me' hold true for Hero's Journey?

http://www.wired.com/culture/culturereviews/news/2008/12/YE8_vaporware

8. Hero's Journey

Duke Nukem had better watch his back. This graphical MMOG — made by Simutronics, the people behind cult fave MUDs like Gemstone IV and DragonRealms -- has been in the works for almost a decade. Hero's Journey's promise of an open game world that responds to player decisions earned raves at the gaming trade show E3. That is, it earned raves at E3 2005. The official FAQ claims that the game is "actively in production and does not have a set release date."

The hold-up seems to be that development focus has shifted from the game itself to its engine, HeroEngine, which Simutronics has licensed out. Bioware is using it to power its upcoming Star Wars: The Old Republic.

As reader Kuro suggests, "If Old Republic gets released before Hero's Journey, that will probably be the final nail in the game's vaporware coffin."

Heh!

http://www.wired.com/culture/culturereviews/news/2008/12/YE8_vaporware

The idea of making a faction of the Bane a playable race is seriously solid gold and would change the fortunes of Tabula Rasa so much for the better I think.  NCSoft could use the same model Cryptic did with City of Villains, leaving the current game running as it is with continued slow but steady development while putting a full team behind creating the flipside of the coin to launch later.  Using that new development to also add other essential features (more robust and meaningful crafting, more career paths, etc.) to the game through the paid expansion would be good too.  Again, much the same as Cryptic did with City of Villains.  Tabula Rasa could still be a winner.

The game isn't perfect.  It doesn't include all the features that Funcom intended to launch it with.  It is heavily instanced, needs some reworking of the UI to make chat and emoting more convenient,  and requires a powerful gaming machine to really run well.  I recently upgraded and it has made all the difference in the world.

If you have a mid range PC, this game might frustrate you.  If you have a machine that can run Crysis well, then you might enjoy this game quite a lot if you don't fixate on the various features that weren't included in the launch.  That may actually be one of the reasons I am completely unphased by all that seems to have driven so many people into a frenzy here, because I don't really even know what a lot of those features were in the first place.

I suppose a lot of it might be a matter of personal taste as well.  For example, World of Warcraft is an absolutely fantastic game with an incredible array of content and features.  There is no arguing that.  Still, I've never been able to stay interested in it for long when I've tried it.  I think the cartoonish presentation puts me off for one thing.  I would say that Age of Conan looks light years better than World of Warcraft, but it doesn't come anywehre close to having the same number of features, itemization, or spectrum of content.

This is crazy.  I haven't seen this much vitriol and hate on a newly launched game since the Vanguard mess.

Have any of you that are leaping at every chance to slam Funcom and Age of Conan paused to catch your breath and reconsider how reasonable you're actually being?

Vanguard WAS a near total debacle.  Sigil was a completely mismanaged mess, utterly imploded, SOE swooped in to save the day and the game is actually a lot more playable now for their efforts.  They've done a great job with it.

I don't get why Age of Conan is getting the same kind of hate thrown at it though.  It's a pretty damn good game, in my opinion.  The Tortage experience was excellent.  I loved how they had a different perspective of the story depending on your overall archetype (warrior, cleric, rogue, mage).  The graphics are absolutely stunning and the combat system is a little different than I'm used to which is entertaining.

Is it a perfect game?  No.  Does it include every feature that Funcom hoped to launch with?  Again, no.  Was I disappointed to leave Tortage the first time and discover the voice acting stopped?  Yes, a little.  Am I still enjoying the game regardless?  Yes, without a doubt.  Do I believe Funcom will continue to develop the game and add as many of the things they hoped to pre-launch and numerous other things they've surely planned for later expansion/improvements?  Of course, what would lead me to believe otherwise?

Maybe I'm just getting a little older and more understanding of what these development companies are facing in the real world of business that they're operating in.  What is going on with WAR having to scale back cities and classes doesn't phase me in the slightest.  They're doing what they believe they need to do.  I think a lot of people just need to pause and look around and realize that this sort of thing has happened and will continue to happen with EVERY game. 

Even some of the most solid A-list games have had hard launches and growing pains at times.  Even mighty World of Warcraft had to scramble to deal with issues at launch.  City of Heroes has been such a work in progress since Day 1 that it is barely recognizeable to the game it was at launch, much less the original concepts we all read about that are now being realized in some ways in the upcoming Champions Online.

Bottom line is that Age of Conan is a pretty solid game as it is right now, especially when compared to what else is out there right now.  The graphics are very nice, the combat system is a decent tweak on the standard fare, there are already some pretty cool features that other games don't have (like city building), and I have been given no reason to believe that Funcom doesn't have every intention of continuing to develop and improve the game going forward.

Originally posted by Valendros

Some of the 'bored housewives' as you call them are damn good RolePlayers. Increadibly inventive and creative; I am looking forward to seeing the quests they've come up with.

This is worth repeating (though not suggesting anyone is a 'bored housewife') because I think Simu's MUD development over the years and the massive modding communities of games like Neverwinter Nights, the Elder Scrolls games, and similar, have proven that supposed amateurs can create pretty professional content if given the right tools.

If the HeroEngine toolset is really all it appears to be, perhaps the Simu business model will work just fine for having much of Hero's Journey created by a lot of volunteers working remotely.  I've experienced that it works just fine for creating new environments of NWN persistent worlds like Avlis, and the whole range of development where MUDs are concerned.

How do the Riftways work exactly?  I found one ingame but haven't really thought about it again.  I've seen the Riftway shards for sale too.  Do you need to access a Riftway location to teleport to a different Riftway location you've visited?  Or do the shards work from anywhere?

Originally posted by inmysights

I found out that V:SOH was free for a month to people who had an account. So I downloaded it and patched up like normal. I logged in and was reminded why this game blows more #$$% than a whore on dollar night. I immediately crashed to the desktop, couldn't log back in for over 30min, and after I finally logged in, the lag sent me back to the stone ages. I saw no difference from launch day. I hate to say this, but this just needs to die.

I'm not saying the game is not without faults right now.  It is not anywhere close to as polished as a top flight game like World of Warcraft, but in my view, it has made tremendous progress and is actually a playable and enjoyable game now.

Originally posted by Taram

 

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Originally posted by Cemm

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Originally posted by Taram

 

 

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Originally posted by Gules_Aspen

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Originally posted by Taram
 
 
 
makes them look like a pack of ametures.

 

 

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Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.

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Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.

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Yep, since 1987.  Time will tell (is telling?) how well a little company that has traditionally had its games developed by essentially unpaid (and sometimes unpredictably transient) volunteer staff will translate to the truly massively multiplayer (multiple servers, more than 100,000 subscribers, etc.) graphical games.

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Actually the games are developed by paid staff. Volunteers produce additional content using in and out of game tools for the game. Get your facts straight please.

When I say pittance, I mean something you couldn't possibly live comfortably on in the United States as a single source of income, and that is for an amount of hours that is easily a second full time job (40 hours) for a lot of these volunteers.

Further, the text-based games Simutronics currently fields are absolutely developed by these volunteer staffers from home.  All the major core systems (combat, magic, stealth, etc.), related mechanics upgrades, new areas to adventure in, room painting, and similar that constitutes developing/expanding/refining the existing games are created and implemented by these remote staffers. 

There is obviously a paid staff of Simutronics employees working in the St. Louis office, but it is mostly administrators, support staff, and technical support to keep the ship afloat.  The actual development of the meat of the games (from major system design to room painting) themselves is tackled from afar by people with first priority full time day jobs that pay the bills so they can enjoy the hobby a lot of them are extremely passionate about.

To an outsider it may seem incomprehensible as a business model, but it has mostly worked out for Simutronics for years and years now.  I only say mostly because there have been numerous occasions where gamemaster burn out and other issues has led to extended delays or even cancellation of promised features.  It is something you just grow accustomed to as a Simutronics subscriber, that whole joke about "Simu Soon" and the reality of what that usually means.

It is just part of the risk of relying on a volunteer workforce to develop your games though.  For example, the Necromancer Guild in DragonRealms was supposedly in development years ago.  The gamemaster in charge was a previously well known hotshot as far as churning things out but apparently eventually hit the burn out zone a lot of them do after a few years on staff.  So that was dead in the water for years.  Now another group of gamemasters has picked it up and it is apparently about to finally get launched as a new guild in the game.

I'm really not intending to knock on Simutronics or the awesome volunteers who put so much of their time and energy into making their games great here.  I'm actually a huge fan of their games and have been a constant customer/subscriber since 1995.  These are just the realities, and some would say charms just as soon as others might say negatives, of how things have always worked with Simutronics.

Originally posted by ID10T

How long did it take you to get to LvL 42? I really want to play this game, but I am  involved with WOW right now, but the graphic shots I see of VG is just outstanding!!!!!!

At what LvL do you get a Mount?

What is the best soloing class?, DPS\Healer\minons

 

 

 

I'm still very new to Vanguard myself for all practical purposes, so my advice about classes probably isn't much help.  I can say that I solo just fine with my disciple (martial artist healer) so far.  It's been great fun.

Originally posted by Taram

 

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Originally posted by Gules_Aspen

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Originally posted by Taram

 

 
 
makes them look like a pack of ametures.

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Well, that fits, since it's exactly what they are.

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Ermm.... no, not really, they've been around longer than most other MMO companies out there actually.

Yep, since 1987.  Time will tell (is telling?) how well a little company that has traditionally had its games developed by essentially unpaid (and sometimes unpredictably transient) volunteer staff will translate to the truly massively multiplayer (multiple servers, more than 100,000 subscribers, etc.) graphical games.