TSW is cool because its much different then any other MMO in terms of setting and character progression. I hope the game will do well, but it there is no way it will beat GW2 in anything.

GW2 just has so much more innovation in terms of dynamic events, automatic grouping, and WvW. Stuff happens and you automatically play with everyone around you.

TSW seems to have a poor man's version of factional world pvp and the pve is largely a solo quest grinder with occasional group instances. The setting makes this content interesting enough, but it is still recycled mechanics from every other game that GW2 simply does better.

Limiting quests just seems like a step backwards from even 10 years ago with EQ1 and DAOC.

I guess the idea is to stop people from getting a massive journal, but its just added pointless tedium for the player.

If I find a quest in the middle of nowhere I have to either drop a quest and hope I remember where it was or take it and lose a quest im on that I will have to go back and resstart.

Very dumb idea.

I have put together a series of videos from footage I took with fraps while playing the engineer in sPVP.


I am basically trying to determine the viability weapons, turrets, flamethrower, tank stats and general sPvP tactics. In the first few video I feel my commentary is a bit weak, but does get better int he later videos.


If you don't feel like watching a ton of videos, just watch the last 2 videos since they summarize my overall thoughts and experiences.


The first set focuses on a tanky flamethrower / turret based build.

Flame Tank build Explanation / Discussion:
http://youtu.be/KP5NcNVe2h4

Battle 1
http://youtu.be/orbKYq6wTbg

Battle 2

http://youtu.be/YXAw5aezBWs

Battle 3
http://youtu.be/qr7z0eNZE-I


The Second set of videos is based on a 3 turret build where I have invested a lot more stats into power in the hope of boosting my DPS output. My commentary starts to pick up with this second set.


Power Turret build Explanation / Discussion:
http://youtu.be/filnmGCBJVQ

Battle 1

http://youtu.be/K7f_bdvh4_Y

Battle 2
http://youtu.be/964a-xUMsAo

Battle 3
http://youtu.be/EidF6IDZbhA


Final Thoughts on Engineer Viability
This is the TLDR version for the above videos. I summarize the overall viability of the various aspects of the class.
http://youtu.be/ApKa3Wym_jo

General Thoughts on the State of sPvP
I describe my general thoughts about the overall state of sPvP. I discuss conquest mode, how each class will fit into sPvP and possible team compositions.
http://youtu.be/1k94k_lTCLU

I agree entirely.

SWTOR is a perfect example - 8 stories is months of content, but tons of people burn out after 1 because repeating the same grindy mechanics becomes boring.

The thing about chess, starcraft, CoD, LoL etc.. is that they start everyone off at a level playing field and it becomes a battle of minds and reflexes to determine the victor within a limited timespan.

Games that rely on repeating raids over and over, or farming gear for unfair advantages lack 'competiton' and instead involve simply going through the motions. Once you compete everything you become extremely bored.

Easily accessable quick bursts of intense competition that is determined by ability rather than /time played are what games need to ensure a healthy playerbase.

Working WvWvW is perpetual content - Just like in DAOC, Planetside and to a certain extent Darkfall. This is even more evident in GW2 because your sever has a ranking.

Ranked GvG and arena pvp is also perpetual content. Tweaking builds and finding ways to evolve the meta game can last forever just like in games such as LoL.

If you are talking PVE then I am sure there are many titles like in GW1 that can take a long time to obtain as well as epic armor that has cool skins, but is equal in power to standard gear.

i dont think any mmo pvp is a measure off ability in that sense, mini game PVP is less personal skill based than FPS that they try to ape, purely by not having to aim.

no ones going to pay me to play any game im English not Korean

what people forget with rvr games like daoc or gvg games like eve, theres another higher level of strategy and coordination involved, theres a strong element of morale building / maintaining,. with the gvg games theres also a whole layer of politics above that, and with the rvr games (if done right like daoc or planetside) theres a whole othewr layer of server pride and coordinating / cooperating amongst guilds on same side.

Again I disagree in an FPS everyone does the same thing - point and shoot. In RPGs people are limited in what they can do by their class so they must work together in order to win - hence the term meta game.

The player community would agree based on all of the viewership records that LoL has broken with its major tournaments.

To put it into perspective, the NHL hockey team the Florida Panthers can have as few as 5000 people viewing a weekday unimportant game whereas there are often ofver 40k people watching LoL streamers daily and in the hundreds of thousands watching major tournment streams.

FPS games get nowhere near this level of viewership.

My point in all of this is that if you want your game to be successful and capture the attention of the community, you need to make it competitive which means balance and active non-macro gameplay which is better achieved in small skillbar games that offer character or team build customization.

Originally posted by Consensus

Originally posted by Nihilist

 There has only been 2 legit pvp rpgs GW1 and league of legends - both of em use small numbers of skills and rely more upon that player's positioning and judgement rather then who can press 50 buttons the most efficiently.

you do realise that LoL is a clone of dota and there are others too, hon/dota 2. so although usually you cannot say an opinion is wrong, yours is actually 100% wrong.

Actually you are wrong. LoL took dota concepts, but made many core gameplay mechanic changes which is why its way more popular than any other moba.

I consider these 2 games the most legit because they were by far the most popular and had the most potential for pro players.

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Originally posted by Nihilist

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Originally posted by Nihilist

There has only been 2 legit pvp rpgs GW1 and league of legends - both of em use small numbers of skills and rely more upon that player's positioning and judgement rather then who can press buttons the most efficiently.

bs

daoc, eve, uo, ac, planetside, war (once for a bit), perpetuum, lineage 2, aion (sort of), shadowbane, darkfall, mortal online...................................................

Fair enough, I should have said competitive. Most of those games are gear and zerg based.

well the warfare type pvp, what you refer to as "zerg" makes more sense in a MASSIVELY multiplayer online game to me.  Even GW and these mobas dont have this mythical "perfect balance", I prefer mmos embrace their inherant unfairness and stop pretending to be FPS.

Which is also fun and fine, but don't pretend that 50 vs 10, or someone in T3 pvp gear vs a fresh player aka SWTOR is in any way a measure of ability.

2nd of all no one is going to pay you to play a zerg based game whereas there are people making a ton of money of these 'fps wannabe' games.

Originally posted by ShakyMo

Originally posted by Nihilist

There has only been 2 legit pvp rpgs GW1 and league of legends - both of em use small numbers of skills and rely more upon that player's positioning and judgement rather then who can press buttons the most efficiently.

bs

daoc, eve, uo, ac, planetside, war (once for a bit), perpetuum, lineage 2, aion (sort of), shadowbane, darkfall, mortal online...................................................

Fair enough, I should have said competitive. Most of those games are gear and zerg based.

The point of having a small skillbar is to allow you to build your character to play a certain way which differentiates you from others of the same class.

Having 30 abilities means most of them are buffs or have long cooldowns which leads to macroing and everyone within a class playing the exact same way which is boring.

You also only usually use 5 or so skills most of the time, so why not allow you to customize what skills those are instead of everything being available on 5 hotbars.

Having a small skillbar also allows you to concentrate more of the battlefield and keeping yourself alive which is necessary in GW2 instead of tabbing around and watching cooldowns.

There has only been 2 legit pvp rpgs GW1 and league of legends - both of em use small numbers of skills and rely more upon that player's positioning and judgement rather then who can press 50 buttons the most efficiently.

As a daoc and planetside vet my pulse quickened the moment you brought up that world pvp map.

I loved smashing the keep doors in daoc and killing every living thing inside the keep - this has been reborn.

A reason to play beyond repeating the same few dalies over and over again to grind gear which will only allow me to do the exact same tasks a little more easily.

I played GW1 since early beta and the monk was my main class, but I am glad to see GW2 moving away from pure support classes.

The main reason is that i GW1 pvp was a battle of attrition in that many matches would last a very long time because neither team could outdamage the healing.

In GW2 I see matches moving a lot faster and people paying to attention to things like over extending and proper use of CC to keep people alive since there is no one to stare at their health bar to keep them alive and cover for poor play.

Anyone who has spent any kind of time at endgame wil tell you that voice acting wasn't worth it.

Gear progression is a fail way to design pvp.

Give people an equal playing field and a ranking system just like any sport in reality and people will play to develop their skill.

The moment you allow arbitrary stats like expertise to give advantage to people who simply put in enough farming time instantly makes the game unfun to people just starting or more casual.

MMORPGS are basically the only genre that has not adopted this approach.

League of legends is a good example of how a no-name company with intellignet design can become the most popular online pvp game.

I actually agree that full loot can be fun, but it requires 1 key thing:

Stats need to be even between vets and noobs

 Darkfall failed largely becuase people who 24/7 macro grinded gained massive advantages over noobs and casuals. Nobody is going to stick around if they are just going to get farmed, thus the game kills its own future revenue stream and becomes empty once the people who max out quit. A pvp games needs a healthy population.

The best world pvp game was Planetside 1.

No pve or mobs. The only way to advance your character was by killing others and capturing bases.

Character advancement gave you more options and build choices, but a max lvl character was virtually equal in stats to a brand new character.

All of the recent mmos are trying to please everyone by having extensive pve, raids, world pvp, battlegrounds. They tend to do ok in 1 or 2 areas, but world pvp usually suffers due to lack of content and often has unreliable rewards making it less efficient than instanced stuff which is more predictable.

If you want a world pvp game to work, it needs to be focused mainly on that one area, but it cannot have huge stat imbalances because then you have darkfall where noobs have zero chance and the game kills off its own future revenue stream because there is no one to replace the people who max out and then quit.

There is no way mmos are going back to the oldschool grind.

Look at the most popular online pvp games like starcraft, counterstrike, league of legends - they have minimal content compared to an mmo, but they have interestng gameplay. Fighting people involes a lot more then pressing tab-1-2-3-4 on the keyboard.

This is why newer mmos fail. Once someone has gone through all the zones all they are left with is identical repetition usually in the form of gear grind. They can't do anything dynamic like come up with new strategies or change the world around them.

Its obvious the pvp was just tacked on without much development time or thought in order  to try and appeal to pvp players with as minimal an investment as possible.

RNG gear is a complete joke

Illum is clearly one of the worst pvp zones ever created.

GW2 is easily the most promising game in years because its pretty much the only AAA game that is changing up the themepark wow-clone formula. Anet is one of very few credible developers who realize that people don't want to play the same reskinned game for eternity.

Its also the only choice for people who like competitive or daoc 3 realm pvp.

Planetside 2 is number two for me. I would say PS1 was the best mmo type game I have played over the past 10 years because it was the only one that had 0 PVE and PVP that was based on skill and everyone was competitve from lvl 1.

I just worry that $OE will once again make design decisions that turn a good functioning game into an unplayable mess.