All Posts by Lydon

This topic is hilarious. How do you, OP, have the right to state the title of this thread as fact when in fact you know absolutely nothing about the game?

Well it sounds like you're new, so it was most likely downloading files needed for the PvP matches, which was causing the slow loading times. That coupled with a little delay due to the low RAM at the end.

Congrats on it being fixed now.

Originally posted by Silvarch

If roleplaying means playing a game, does RPG mean game where you play a game? No video game in existence allows you to use your imagination as a gameplay mechanic, all the things you can choose to do are implemented via mechanics that were programmed or scripted, one way or the other. Sandbox just means jumping through hoops not set in a specific course.

Second Life.

Originally posted by damian7

Originally posted by Lydon

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

 The same reason you pick your costume?  Customization and RP?

For the players maybe, but I personally feel the devs would much rather add new features to the game instead of expand on current features.

 

like redoing zones?

Yes but that's something that's needed and getting dated. Travel seems just fine as it is. Don't get me wrong...I'd love to see vehicles implemented but amidst redoing zones as you say and everything else they're working on I doubt we'd see it any time soon.

Originally posted by Raltar  

You clearly missed the point of both scenarios. The point was this: We aren't talking about what someone meant for something to be or what was decided in a boardroom by a bunch of suits. We also aren't talking about what you imagine Second Life to be. We are talking about what Second Life actually is! Its a piece of software!

And the question we are trying to anwser here is "Does that piece of software qualify as a game?"

The anwser is "No, it doesn't!"

Scenario #1 proved that if Second Life were devoid of user-created content that it would fail to qualify as a game.

Scenario #2 proves that even WITH user-created content it still doesn't become a game.

So Second Life itself, as a piece of software, is NOT a game.

Of course it is a piece of software...all games are. And yes, it does qualify as a game. If an game were completely devoid of content it would just be a piece of software, so saying that SL is the only game that this applies to is unfair. 

Once again I ask you, does exploration not count as a game? It's a huge part of Vanguard. Are you actually arguing that if someone plays a game in which you explore they aren't playing a game simply because that isn't appealing to you?

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by randomt

Saying SL is a game is like saying:

The internet is a game.

Both are not. But both are mediums on which games can be run. Don't see what is so hard for people to understand about it.

You see, THIS GUY GETS IT!

Second Life itself is NOT a game.

Second Life is an envrioment where you could possibly create a game within the borders of that envrioment. But that action alone does not convert the envrioment itself into a game.

 

Once again silly comparisons. The internet is in no way a game considerings its sole purpose is browsing the internet in a text, picture, video and sound environment. SL on the other hand is a 3D environment in which you take on the role of a virtual persona and do what you want. Sure, people create games within it, but its metagame is that it is a game - coming right from the horses mouth.

You are the one who wants to go back to the "metaverse" in order to prove that its not a game, I take you there and prove to you that the metaverse is in fact a game and then you sudenly want to jump back to what it "is." Well in its current state it qualifies even more as a game due to user-generated content. So please make up your mind as to what you're trying to argue - the metagame or current game (in which both cases I've given sufficient evidence to argue my case).

Originally posted by Raltar

LOL, case closed eh? By that definition you just handed the arguement to me because you can't run Second Life on a microcomputer!

Clearly whatever dictionary you got this from consdiers a "video game" to be the type of game you would play on a console style system hooked up to your TV set as opposed to the modern software that we run on our home computers. Sorry bud, I don't think a book written by stuffy old people 20 some years ago can save you today.

 

Oh good grief one would think you would have the ability to apply that definition to SL but clearly I expected too much of you.

Originally posted by Raltar  

Scenario #1:

Lets take an MMORPG like Asheron's Call. Remove ALL the players from the game and revert the software back to its original condition as of the date it was first released to the public. The game is now in a totally pristine condition: There are no player-owned houses and no updates to the game from the developers beyond what they originally intended for the world to look like.

Now, allow ONE PERSON to enter that world. Is he playing a game? Yes, he is. Because Asheron's Call was designed as a game and had all of the features of a game at the time of its inception. It did not need to be modified or altered in any way to become a game. It IS a game.

 

Lets repeat this process with Second Life. Remove all the "residents" from the "metaverse" ane revert the "metaverse" itself to the condition it was in when Second Life was first released to the public. There are no user created objects or enviroments in the "metaverse" any longer, only those objects and enviroments which Linden Labs added to the world.

Now, allow ONE PERSON to enter the "metaverse" that Linden Labs has created. Is this person playing a game? No, he isn't. The current "metaverse" does not have the features of a game because in its original condition as invisioned by Linden Labs those features did not yet exist.

 

So, as we can see here, Second Life was NOT designed by Liden Labs to fulfill the function or purpose of a game the way that an actual MMOG is.

 

Pointless scenario because we aren't talking about SL in its initial capacity now are we? Plus, I would STILL consider them to be playing a game. That player created a virtual persona whom they control in the Second Life universe. Adding more to my argument, that single player would have actually been very lucky considering they could develop to their hearts content! Besides doing that, they could partake in activities such as exploration. Are you suggesting that exploration is not part of a game?

I come back to what I have been saying all along. Your idea of a game may be one that consists of a strict set of rules, mine isn't. Storylines, combat, crafting etc. are the current-day perception of what an MMO should be, which is rather sad. It defies the point of one's imagination.

Originally posted by Raltar

Scenario #2:

Lets take a single-player game like Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. We know this is a game.

Now, lets allow someone to modify the game. Lets say this person decides that he likes the graphics of the game but hates the combat. This person decides that hes going to create a mod to remove all combat from the game as well as leveling, falling damage, monsters, spells and nearly every other feature of the game. He is however going to allow players to alter the appearance of their character any way they want. Then hes going to allow multiple people to enter the same world at the same time. Lastly, hes going to create a chat interface so the players can send text-based messages to each other.

What we have now is a mod that effectively transforms Oblivion into a chat room with high tech graphics. And there isn't anything wrong with that. Maybe there are folks out there who would enjoy this mod for role playing purposes.

By merit of the fact that this mod exists, does Oblivion itself (in its original unmodified state) cease to be a game? No, it doesn't. Just because some guy made a mod that changed the game into a chat room doesn't mean that I can't still use the original version of the software as a game.

 

Now, lets reverse this scenario for Second Life. Due to the results of Scenario #1 we already know that Second Life (in its original unmodified state) is a piece of software which does NOT meet the definition of a game.

But lets say we release thousands of people in the "metaverse" of Second Life. A few of them decide to modify small parts of the game world to resemble a game. They allow a small number of people at one time to enter a limited area and whack each other with swords. After a certain number of wacks from a sword a person "dies" and is teleported to another part of the "metaverse" where their sword doesn't function.

By merit of the fact that this small group of players altered a small portion of the "metaverse" to resemble a "game" of a sort, does that change the entire piece of software into a game? No, it doesn't. Because that still isn't the primary function of the software, nor does it change the fact that the majority of users of that software are not using it as a game.

Thus, Second Life, even after being modified by its users, still DOES NOT qualify as a game.

 

 

And here is the bottom line: Second Life is not a game because the original software as designed by its original creators was not a game and cannot be used as such. Any piece of software can be reasonably altered to preform a function its original creators did not intend for it to fulfill. But that doesn't alter the function of the original software.

And the original creators of Second Life (Linden Labs) state quite clearly on their own website that Second Life is a "Metaverse" and NOT a game. If you can find me even one example of Linden Labs officially and clearly calling Second Life a game then I will take back everything I have said and concede this debate to you. But until that happens Second Life is unarguably NOT a game.

 

Whilst Linden Labs interviews on the interwebs are very scarce, I managed to dig up something with a quick google search that I found quite interesting:

"In 2008, the company was awarded an Emmy for Second Life in the user-generated content and game modification category. The award was given at the 59th annual Technology & Engineering Emmy Awards.^[3]Philip Rosedale, President of Linden Labs, accepted the award."

Well for one if it isn't a game the company wouldn't have been nominated for the award and secondly the president of the company wouldn't be accepted the award either!

I'd also like to ask, have you ever done any research into Second Life and how it started out? I'm sure if you knew a little more about it you'd understand your second scenario too is not at all applicable, because the Second Life metagame was indeed designed to be a game:

"During a 2001 meeting with investors, Rosedale noticed that the participants were particularly responsive to the collaborative, creative potential of Second Life. As a result, the initial objective-driven, gaming focus of Second Life was shifted to a more user-created, community-driven experience."

Now what you'll notice apart from the fact that it was originally designed to be a game, they did not abandon that view at all. They simply altered focus to the social-aspect without eliminating the gaming aspect.

Do a quick search and you'll notice on wikipedia it is classified as a game, news etc. concerning it on gaming websites are posted under MMORPG sections, people refer to it as a game and on top of it all we're discussing it in its own forum on the MMORPG.com forums.

Originally posted by rawRzorz

Originally posted by deviliscious

Quote from Jagex 14 July 2008 - Three Cheers for Lumbridge!

"Every week we receive thousands of abuse reports on the subject of Rule 10: Misuse of Customer Support. Often, these are from players reacting to reports made against them, with only 1% showing any evidence of a broken rule. Since we can identify those who break Rule 10 ourselves, we have decided to remove the option to report players for Rule 10: Misuse of Customer Support. The rule itself will not be removed or changed and we will continue to take the appropriate action against those who break it."

We all know how the 9 year olds love to walk around saying" reported" or I reported u" , so now they can do it freely without reprecussions because Jagex has now removed the ability to report them for doing so!  Not only do they not ban them or mute them for walking around ruining the community, they are protecting them from any reprecussions! Most of the kids that walk around saying that do not actually report anyone they just love to irritate other players, and in years past I knew mods that muted them for it, now there is no way to report the annoying little kids for being jerks to everyone around them!  "Since we can identify those who break Rule 10 ourselves" that is only if they actually report someone, if they do not 99% of the time there is no way they find out, unless someone reports them for misuse.Way to go Jagex that will really improve your community.

 

 I do not know who's worse, the 9 year olds telling people they've reported them, or the people who ***** about it.

 

 If your honestly concerned about kids that are saying one or two words like, "reported" you need to get out of whatever cave your in, and enter the real world. Quit crying over small things. You don't pay for the game(unless your a member), all you have to do to protest is not play at all, and move on.

Just because it's free doesn't mean you have to put up with crap.

Originally posted by AkaJetson

Originally posted by amesco

The game is starting to come apart. When they added the duel arena to free players it caused a huge protest. There were also other huge protests, and if ,on youtube, they were telling the truth there will be more protests the 20th of july 2008 on worlds 1, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 152. They will be at bountyhunter, the duel arena, and other minigames. There will also be a protest at varrock square. Tell all runescape players to go there if you are sick of the crap runescape has been giving. 

WTF you've posted the same thing on 3 different threads, spammer.

Well if it's relevant...

Originally posted by Majinash

Originally posted by Raztor

I heard they don't invite people that keep praising every single part of the game on these forums... They actually prefer to hear what is wrong with the game so they can fix it before releases...

 

/shock

 

because the WAR devs handpick people and then check their posts on a completely different site where they have different usernames?

 

I hear they don't handpick people based on anything, its just your computer specs and their random "pick numbers out of a hat" computer program.

 

/shock

 I think Raz was being sarcastic

/shock

The only game I've made it to the cap in is Guild Wars, considering there are so few levels. Closest I've gotten in WoW is 64 from what I can remember. The other games I've played and enjoyed weren't level-based.

Thanks to this Double XP weekend in CoX I'll most likely hit the level cap soon. It's been a good leveling week!

Originally posted by Tabby_Cat

 

---

Originally posted by Lydon
There's a CoX expansion in the making?

---

 

First I have heard. you have a link to this>

I was asking a question to one of the previous posters, not stating a fact

Originally posted by Raltar

Originally posted by Lydon

Just because it's a car that drives you from one point to another does that change the fact that it has a washing machine installed in it? No. That's no regular car, it's a multipurpose vehicle.

You could call the car from my analogy a "multipurpose vehicle" and that may even be an accurate statement but that doesn't nullify my analogy, it merely ignores the key point of the analogy.

Your car may be able to do your laundry because it has a washing machine in it but it still doesn't qualify as a laundromat because it is still lacking many of the features required to qualify as a laundromat. This is the point of the entire analogy because Second Life has the same issue. It may have some features in common with an MMOG but it doesn't have enough to actually qualify as an MMOG. Just look at the way you guys keep calling it a "Sandbox MMO" but not an MMOG. Thats because even you can see its missing the game part.

Some of the users of SL may have modified parts of the world to have a few basic features of a game, but that doesn't make SL itself a game any more than having a washing machine in your car makes the entire car a laundromat. At best you could claim that very small parts of the Second Life "Metaverse" are being used as a game, in the same sense that parts of your car are being used to do your laundry. But that doesn't make Second Life itself a GAME which is what this debate is about.

 

Firstly, the reason we call it an MMO (at least for me) is because I cba to type "MMORPG" every time.

Moving on...your analogy simply does not compare the two well at all. You're assuming that everyone needs all of the features of a laundromat in order to do their laundry. The person with the car + washing machine combo can do their laundry just as well as someone who uses a full-on laundromat, they just go about doing it differently. Instead of using the tumble-dryer they could hang their washing out to dry. Either way the end result is: laundry has been done! So what you're stating is that because the SL creators haven't said to their users "we have laid out everything for you and this is how you will do your laundry," that players can't do their laundry...

In the end, my little friend named The Dictionary will sort this out easily:

Video game (noun) -any or various games played using a microcomputer with a keyboard and often joysticks to manipulate changes or respond to the action or questions on the screen.

That's exactly what SL is. Case closed.

Interesting conversation you're having with youself, but anyway...

Guild Wars has private and public instances too. When they say the world can hold that many people I'm sure they mean that that will be the server cap or something along those lines.

Yeah I know that's the problem. My issue is that patching worked, but now it suddely won't anymore.

Thanks though, I'll read through that thread.

Originally posted by Antikythera

Even if the game launches and it's half decent it will still fail because of it's design and lack of player base and i'am sure lack of content.

For a game like Darkfall you need TONS of players online all the time otherwise you're just running around searching for people to kill and it becomes pretty pointless. If the game doesn't have a massive subscriber base there will be literally nothing to do other than basic PvE crap which can be found done 300% better in games like WoW.

Hell WoW's PvP expansion coming out this year is probably 100 x better then the entire Darkfall game is which is another reason this game will fail.

Of course the Fanbois will chime in now saying it doesn't have FULL LOOTING so it sucks. LOL

Like that's supposed to actually be a selling point to get subscribers or something.

I won't even bring up Warhammer which it would have to compete against among everythning else.

(If) Darkfall launches and is even half playable I see it getting no more than around maybe 10-20k subscribers and holding them for a few months until Warhammer and Lich King are out and becoming a forgotten nich game where there's maybe a few hundred people online at any given time.

My words are good.

Oh go away. I honestly couldn't care if its released or not but you trolls are starting to make me sick.

If you don't care about the game, don't come here and speak about it! Get on with WoW or wtf you may be playing.

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

 The same reason you pick your costume?  Customization and RP?

For the players maybe, but I personally feel the devs would much rather add new features to the game instead of expand on current features.

There's a CoX expansion in the making?

Don't really care to be honest. Anyone whose worth keeping I have on MSN/Xfire, so I can just get their new IGNs through them. A wipe of my friends list is needed I think, considering some people haven't been on in ages.

Ah how I miss those days...

The thing is...what's the point of flying in a helicopter if you can just fly?

I do, however, like the idea of vehicular combat. That would be fun.

Originally posted by slask777

Oh, and looksie, I can start a rumour too. In the next few years a new mmo based on the Grand Theft Auto series will be started, or atleast be in plann