Originally posted by Flummoxed

Originally posted by JGMIII

Originally posted by Yamota

pvp? PvP? PVP?? 

Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, (Not)

Because it's easy to please pvpers, add decent combat and give players a reason to fight like intanced pvp or some world pvp objective and they bash eachothers faces in for months.

 

Or to put it more bluntly, PvP doesn't require any thought (or Skill or Talent) to implement , no Content required.

"Here's a stick, run around and hit each other."   PvP design and coding are now complete.

PvP without purpose is lame. "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." The same thing applies to PvP.

If you think it takes nothing to implement real PvP systems you clearly do not know the first thing about PvP. Examples of PvP in games that have purpose, Guild Wars (competitive gaming), Warhammer (simply killing someone won't lock a zone, which won't get you to a fort, which won't get you into the city), Shadowbane (your city was the center of everything and destroying it meant a lot).

All of those examples were more than someone turning on the ability for people to hit each other.

Originally posted by Nightbringe1

Originally posted by Yamota

pvp? PvP? PVP??

 

Why do so many MMORPG previews/reviews fail to even mention if there is any PvP? It is one of the biggest aspect of MMORPGs to please, get on the program!

 

Because 90% of the gaming community does not care about PvP.

Other than the extremely large communities around games that are completely PvP based, such as Team Fortress 2, Counter Strike, DoTA, Guild Wars, Halo. Hell, even WoW has made PvP a bigger focus with their tournaments and arenas. You know basically every game outside of most MMOs realize people want to have competition. In fact, I'd say your made up number is actually the reverse.

Heads for Order players

http://www.road-to-war.com/headembed.html?guid=98ff5b71-4211-426f-8aa3-4f91330c8df2&uid=841833

http://www.road-to-war.com/headembed.html?guid=7a0d63fb-31dd-45e9-964d-b6a4baea8ec6&uid=841833

http://www.road-to-war.com/headembed.html?guid=ea1cffb9-cc8b-43c6-99a0-b666ba217708&uid=841833

http://www.road-to-war.com/headembed.html?guid=98ff5b71-4211-426f-8aa3-4f91330c8df2&uid=841833

http://www.road-to-war.com/headembed.html?guid=7a0d63fb-31dd-45e9-964d-b6a4baea8ec6&uid=841833

http://www.road-to-war.com/headembed.html?guid=ea1cffb9-cc8b-43c6-99a0-b666ba217708&uid=841833

Originally posted by kraiden

There is no such thing as large "elite" guilds.
And there is no such thing as dominant large guilds in competitive games.

 

I will repeat... NO SUCH THING.

it goes against male nature, and these games are made up of mostly males.

Being elite means a small group of highly skilled indivituals. YOu cant be elite having open applications and welcome to all classes. THATS NOT ELITE.

And any guild that is actually large and has good players? Same thing that happens in every game. the best players.... we ALWAYS find eachother. Then we ALWAYS form the best groups comprised of the classes that have the best synergy and we roll over countless amounts of normal players.

this causes people in our guild to resent us because we dont include them in our dominance. But if we included you.... we wouldnt be elite and it would slow down our process.

This divide usually causes us to break off into our own guild. Once the elite break off there will always be a group that leaves as copycats to try and do the same thing by themselves. Losing this many quality players makes most guilds fold.

Hell, even in the description it says what I just did.

"the guild that formed after retribution broke up"

Wow was filled with large guilds until making smaller elite teams of 10 people was better for arena and raiding progress.

 

DAoC was dominated by zerg guilds in the beginng. I was in the #1 ranked guild from opening of the game until the 2nd year. We had 200 ACTIVE members. and everyone of us LOVED to zerg. this guild fell apart when the best players realised we could earn more points/money/respect by playing with better players in smaller groups.

 

 

same thing will happen in war, its human nature.

This guy knows what he is talking about without question.

I played with top 10 guilds in Guild Wars back in the day and got pretty into the meta-game. The only group I know of who successfully demonstrated they could be fairly good and have a massive playerbase compared to what most people ran (average guild size would be anywhere from 8, the super hardcore, to 16 or so) was Xen of Onslaught. I am fairly certain they ran their guild like the "elite"/"best" did and so actually had ~16 people dedicated to the PvP while others were in it for PvE.

Massive guilds are filled with massive fail in many many ways and in WAR, particularly on Order, it only seems to be worse due to a major lack of real successful experience from almost all of them (most have no real unarguable achievements like being ranked X on their server).

One reason small groups > large groups is due to everyone really learning how to work as a team.

Originally posted by nratnam

quality over quantity is all ia m going to say.

I stated previously that from my own quick browsing of the forums on Warhammer Alliance, Destruction is not only going to have quantity, but quality too.

As I am not under NDA, since I am not in beta, I can tell you for a fact Destruction is more popular and to prove it without needing to be in beta: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=8a01f81bed823951fcea4bf6d4ee5789&f=20

I'm estimating based on that alone there are at least 3:1 good experienced guilds/clans planning on going Destruction over Order. In fact, I was looking for a good group of experienced PvPers (I have a bias toward old Shadowbane/Guild Wars groups) on Order and basically found nothing other than the Mithril Warhammers, who are Dwarf only. There are some really good guilds/clans who are going to be rolling Destruction making me almost feel like going Order will just cause me to quit in frustration due to the incompetency of many of the players who will be on it.

The exact number listed there on the guild list is 49:32 (Destruction to Order). Basically that comes out to be about 5:3, which is only represantive of guilds and not actually member size.