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All Posts by Moirae

All Posts by Moirae

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Originally posted by Amjoco
Originally posted by Moirae
Wow, I don't agree with any of them. I can't imagine anything more boring than driving a car all the time. I don't play MMO's on console. The Secret World is just a copy of Vampire Bloodlines expanded and called something different but VB is better. ESO looks good until you play it for a while, then it gets boring quick since its all been done before except for the "loot almost everything" stuff and the utterly ridiculous "no broker" garbage. And GW2 is so boring there aren't even words because you never have to talk to anyone, even an npc unless you want to buy something, its all autogroup and autoquest. 

So you wouldn't have a top 5!?  Those are about the only ones to agree on.

No, I don't really like any of the current b2p games out there. Most of them started out as p2p, and weren't good then, never mind now. If a company goes b2p, it means they are just eeking out any remaining money they can before they go under. They can't afford to pay a long term staff, and it will take forever to address any issues. 

Wow, I don't agree with any of them. I can't imagine anything more boring than driving a car all the time. I don't play MMO's on console. The Secret World is just a copy of Vampire Bloodlines expanded and called something different but VB is better. ESO looks good until you play it for a while, then it gets boring quick since its all been done before except for the "loot almost everything" stuff and the utterly ridiculous "no broker" garbage. And GW2 is so boring there aren't even words because you never have to talk to anyone, even an npc unless you want to buy something, its all autogroup and autoquest. 

I really want to say "everything released in the last five years". But for me? The worst are GW2, STO, and the WoD with the WoD being the biggest disappointment I've had in a very very long time. Mostly because it had such promise and ended up not even being released because the developers are a bunch of idiots. STO would be second because they could have done much better, it is Star Trek after all. One of the most famous IP's in the last 50 years, and they totally and utterly screwed it up so that its cookie cutter to every other game but with different graphics. There is literally nothing else different. GW2 because everything in the game is autogrouping, autoreceiving quests. Boring. 

Having spent some time in Landmark... no. Not to mention that I just don't trust the AAA developers anymore. They lie. Constantly. They've been using the phrase "next gen" for years and yet it hasn't actually applied to any game released since EQ2. There's no such thing. In fact, they have almost completely stopped offering much of what were considered staples in games. That's not next gen, that's a step backward. 


Now for the complaint I keep seeing that says "some people just aren't ever happy with anything"... well you know what? I'm not happy when the games take a step back because they consider graphics more important than game play, and casual play more important than anything else. You bet I'm not happy. I WAS happy. Long ago. But I'm not happy when 50x the amount of money is spent offering fully half of what used to be offered in these games. It's despicable behavior. And you shouldn't be happy with that either. If other companies did the same thing, they'd go down like the titanic, but we are all so desperate to find the next MMO home and to believe that they will truly live up to their promise to bring next gen and make it a reality that we cling to the hope and keep playing. 


I have to be honest and say that I have several accounts in many MMO's at the moment. All of them are f2p and I've only logged into one of them for the last 6 months, and even then it was probably a total of about ten or fifteen hours game play in the whole time period. Why? Because I am bored. Single player games offer far far more in depth experience, and I even have an emotional reaction to them, and I can mod them to my hearts content. MMO's are losing it, and I'm tired of the lazy development.


There's a reason people keep going back to games like EQ, EQ2, WoW, and DAoC and the developers can't seem to see the forest through the trees. Because those games offer something the newer games are seriously lacking. Maybe its time to actually learn what those games did right and keep players for years and years on end instead of looking for a quick buck and moving on to the next one. 

Originally posted by BadSpock

To sum up -

SWG would have survived well if they fixed their game and kept to the vision - a sandbox Star Wars world.

EQ2 would have done better if it stuck to it's Everquest roots (more hardcore party based PvE).

WAR would have been good if they focused on the RvR and left the quests/dungeons/raids to WoW.

AoC would have been good if they embraced the brutality of the IP with open world FFA PvP (with consequence) instead of trying to appease the masses with generic quest driven PvE.

SWTOR would have been good if they embraced the story and character building in true Bioware fashion rather than watering everything down to include WoW-like elements.

Rift could have risen further if they had focused on the public event/rift/invasions and more unique class building system then trying to chase the WoW-model of dungeons/raids and instanced PvP.

etc. etc. etc.

None of these games "failed" or under-performed directly because of WoW - they did the damage to themselves by trying to be like "that other guy" and simply not doing a very good job at it. 

You can't blame WoW for its success, you can definitely blame the fools trying to break off their piece of it and failing.

Wow. Bingo. 

Originally posted by xxerox
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by Dullahan

Thats not the case.  The general forums for Pantheon are accessible for $5.  You hardly have to be rich as someone suggested, but its imperative to filter out the trolling and the players who really have no intention of making a real contribution but rather intend to sway the developers away from their intended purpose.

Its called putting your money where your mouth is.

To me it sounds like accepting having your money stolen once again by the guy who already did a major screw up  with Vanguard, only for promises of some game which may never exist.

It's called turning the other cheek.

i come from a poor country with cheap currency where a normal person cant spend even 10 cents on a game, because the bank will add 1000% on top of it. + the all the debit and credit cards are pain in the ***


Free or nothing. 5$ for a person is allot of money when everyone starts paying.


Its called Scam.


P.S. Real contribution is not money.  No matter how good is a game, if you pay money to play it, then no.


You have to give them money on your own as a donation. And expect nothing in return.

Wow, just wow. If everything is free, then no one makes any money ever and everyone ends up poor. That's all I'm going to say on that subject. 


As to the post about the forums for Pantheon being charged $5 to use... Not sure I agree with that. Most people can afford $5 with no problem so it doesn't really stop anything, only moderators do. 

Developers take the desires of players into account? I'm sorry but since when?


We have slowly been losing what used to be standard in MMO's.  Whats offered now is pretty graphics, ok music, theme parks with raids at the end and PvP. Good crafting, collecting, housing, personalization, and more have all been lost. Even what they call "alternatives are levels" are really just levels in disguise. Players ask over and over again for the things they want and they are ignored because its faster and cheaper to build the types of games I just mentioned.


What I would like to see is that a toon starts as a blank slate, and changes as you play. Meaning, no such thing as the trinity and classes. You choose how you play as you play, gaining experience that you then get to spend on your stats and skills to level them up.


I would like to see a world that's built and changes as you play. npc's reactions to you changes. Quests offered to you changes (if you do evil things, then certain questions become unavailable to you and there are consequences to those actions. And no, being a jerk is not the same thing as being evil, but being a jerk should have an impact too, and no, the npc's shouldn't automatically know whether you are either just because you walked into town). Do good and help, things get better around you ala fable, but more than that, there are other people playing with you so they should be able to impact it too. 


I want the ability to create my own armor, and things for housing, and it be usable in game and be able to be bought by other players to use too. Provided it is approved by the devs first because it needs to fit in the world created. It would increase the personalization monumentally. This means also excellent crafting that involves more than a single button push. It involves experimentation, going out to find things in the open world that could be used in crafting, and allows for things like changing the colors of items. It also includes housing, and the shape of the house, how many levels, etc. Crafting could be so in depth that you could do anything, and so involved needing you to think that it could be a viable alternative to adventuring. 


These games could be so much more. These games could be so much better. Right now, the only game remotely offering what I'm asking for is Citadel of Sorcery which I'm starting to think is vaporware because its been 9 or 10 years since development started. The issue they are having is that they don't have a big AAA publisher behind them so its taking alot longer than it should. But do I trust that they will deliver? Not remotely.


I don't trust any of the game developers anymore. Heck, Cryptic actually bragged that they were done developing STO in a year and a half. That's not even remotely enough time to do justice to what could have been one of the biggest IP's since the start of the MMO genre of gaming and actually is rather embarrassing to them. 


SWG did some things right, like crafting, though I didn't like the open world housing due to the endless strips of housing. And then they shut it down and replaced it with SWTOB which has one of the worst crafting systems I've seen in a game and that's saying something. I want to be involved in the crafting, not have someone do it for me. 


And as far as I know, everything I just listed above is the exact same things that have been requested for years by gamers but we haven't received them because the publishers want to develop and release quickly so they can get a quick buck and move on to the next project. And its precisely why most players consider the MMO gaming industry to be failing. 


They don't listen to the players, they listen to the casual gaming market that started with facebook games. And that is NOT a good thing. 

Originally posted by MorBlade

SWG and EQ were the only 2 MMOs that I couldn't wait to get home after work and play.  I still play several MMOs and have a few lifetime accounts but never feel the need to log in and talk to guildies every day.  What I liked about SWG was the fact that I didn't have to go out killing and questing all the time. I could take my dancer in the cantina and talk to folks or go out in the middle of nowhere, build a camp and hunt for resources to use in crafting.  That's what I find missing in MMOs these days, the opportunity to just sit back and do something besides questing and killing. I still jump into SWG from time to time., just for the memories.


Formally of Lowca

I didn't start to play SWG until the NGE, but EQ2 is the game I felt that way about. I played the game 6 years and only left when Smedly treated the players like dirt. I actually went back a few months ago because I missed it so badly and nothing else compares. I'm still looking for my new MMO home after years. I've almost given up finding it. 

The first thing is that if it had the NGE in the first place, there would have been nothing to distinguish it from anything else other than that it was Star Wars. Now let's think about this for a moment. The most common complaint now is that every game is WoW with different graphics and one or two gimmicks. And currently the MMO industry is in trouble. It's numbers are slowly dwindling precisely because everyone wants to be WoW. 


The format SWG initially started with, though it didn't have the numbers that were wanted, was a great format. It was different, and interesting. Something that no one else was doing. SWG DID have the potential to change the industry. Instead, in a desperate nonsense attempt to grab onto what WoW was presenting (let's face it, WoW already existed for a while in record numbers when SWG suddenly decided to do a complete about face and change its format almost totally) ended up causing even more problems in the end because it alienated the players that it already had. 


At that time, WoW was at its peak. There was no possible way that SWG could have grabbed players from them. So not only did it not grab the players it wanted, it also alienated the players it already had. 


What SWG did made no sense whatsoever. It's not "should have made it like the NGE in the first place" because that would have made it generic, and wouldn't have helped.


Instead of being happy with what they had, instead of capitulating to the format that WoW established, SWG should have continued with what already existed, and expanded on it. It's never a good thing to copy others. You want to be your own product.


Let me put it another way... You remember what happened with Coca Cola, don't you? When Pepsi hit the market, they wanted to compete harder and they changed the recipe to become New Coke. And nearly went under because of it. They had to reinstate the old recipe as Coke Classic. Because Coke Classic is what people wanted. So let Pepsi be Pepsi and Coke be Coke. They are both good. Being different hasn't been a bad thing for either of them. 


It should have been the same with SWG. Being different isn't bad so long as you do it well. 

I would hope so. I'm starting to wonder if it's vaporware. 9 years is a very long time. 
The problem is that those videos aren't of actual game play. Not once. They are video promotional tools created to get people to buy the game and the same thing that every game company does with every game. 
That's good news. The greed aspect of it was ruining the games. 
I'd say no. While graphics aren't as important as the devs want us to believe, they simply are not even remotely as good as what you will find on pc or console. It feels like stepping back in time to the single player games of the 80's and 90's played on nintendo. They are also meant to be played in very short bursts as things like tablets and cell phones drain power with these kinds of games like nothing else which is not conducive to groups playing together which is what an MMO truly is. 

The thing about kickstarter and other sites like it is that you are volunteering the money and taking it on faith that it will be developed. It is why I highly recommend against giving more than $50-$100 to a project. 

It's not technically against the law. If it was then wall street wouldn't work. You risk your money, and sometimes you lose. 

Now on the grounds that he had people doing work for free to get paid based on a portion of the profits... it's possible he may get away with that if those people signed a contract with him. If not, then its he said she said and a possible court case in the making as he can be sued.

I recommend consulting a lawyer. 

Originally posted by Rydeson
Originally posted by Flyte27

You are probably in the wrong genre if you are playing a game about having adventures in which all you are really doing is looking for the highest efficiency loot grind.  It's fairly obvious that I am in the wrong genre now, but that won't stop me from writing what I think is good.  I'd rather not argue about weather or not you feel x feature is in current games or x is what everyone wants.  People keep dragging me in that direction.  What I would rather talk about is what I actually wrote down a few comments ago.  It wasn't a complaint, but ideas on how to make the genre better IMO.  All you seem interested in is talking about financial stats about games or pointing out how there is a game out there for people and telling them go play it.  If there was such a game I would be playing it.  Dark Souls and Blood Borne are the closest I see and I'm playing them currently.  Divinity Original Sin is a fairly good game as well and I've been playing that.  Grand Theft Auto V is somewhat amusing even with the GPS just for the dialogue.  None of them are MMOs though.  I think if you really were interested in current MMOs you would be either playing them or talking about them instead of trying to defend them rather blindly.

I know that feeling buddy..  The genre has been assimilated by the borg..  The days of adventure role playing are gone.. I grew up with paper and pencil AD&D and loved it, and for a time EQ and similar games were a good online substitute for that fun.. Then the arcade whack a mole crowd showed up..  These people didn't care about anything other then "loot" that makes them stronger and where is the next mob to kill..  Practicing your skills in forage, sense heading, safe fall, etc etc are probably considered all worthless time sinks.. I have hopes that one day we'll get a new updated gameplay version of "old school" where playing a character matters..

I can't think of a way to agree more. One of the many reasons I love EQ2 and went back to it years after staying away. 

No they don't. They listen to the popularity of facebook games, and the ADD generation and figure that's the players when its only a tiny fraction. 

I started playing MMO's a few years after EQ came out. I liked it but it was very difficult originally. I tried WoW later and hated it. And SWG which I started when NGE hit and I've always wanted to play the pre-NGE game but never had the chance (I have found some sites that do offer it but when I try, I get frustrated pretty quick because there literally is NO explanation on what to do or where and NO quests of any sort so its pretty much kill stuff which is boring).

It wasn't till EQ2 that I fell in love with an MMO. It was my game, and I still love it. When they went f2p I was very upset. Not because of the f2p. By that time, LOTRO had come out with f2p and it was quite fair. EQ2 though... that one really made me angry. Because the devs and community leaders, and all the rest just blew us off. Everyone was angry and we had valid questions. Finally, smedly came on and started talking to us. And his answers were the equivalent of "we are going to screw you over, just trust us". He blew us off so much that we all started getting very angry because he wouldn't answer any of our questions whatsoever. And I quit. 

Since that time, I've been looking for my new MMO home. I've tried probably a good 50 or 60 games and haven't found it. I missed the game so much that, after years of saying that I wouldn't cave to play the game again, I went back a few months ago as a f2p player. I had no idea just how much I missed it. The pc toons are still really ugly but the rest of the game isn't, and that music still makes me smile. Bristlebane Day is running right now and I was playing the event last night. Going to do it again tonight. It feels like coming home. 

EQ Next... I'm not impressed with Landmark, so I somehow really think I won't be impressed with EQ Next. But we will see. And I'm still under NDA so I can't give any info, sorry. 

There are definitely things that could be done better. We need a real live world that changes and that we can impact. Citadel of Sorcery MIGHT be an option but its been in development 8 years with no hint of release. Every single game that I have played since I left EQ2 the first time makes alot of promises but doesn't fulfill any of them. In fact, every game since then actually offers less. LOTRO came close but their housing is terrible and in the years of false promises, they have still not done anything about it and probably won't. 

And then we see articles from devs complaining about how its getting harder to impress people with pretty graphics and they don't know what to do. They keep getting told "so provide a better game" by players, and the players keep getting ignored. Instead, we get games that provide pve and pvp, and very little else except gimmicks that bore people quickly. Some developers (I'm looking at you CCP) are actually proud of the fact that they can develop a game in a year and a half.

I don't currently hold much hope for the genre. And I think I'm in good company when I say that others feel the same way. Because they still don't get it and they probably won't because the quick buck is what everyone is after, not quality. It's pitiful. 

That's what RPG's are about. Quests. If you don't like that, then I suggest you find a game that is heavy PvP centric without the PvE mixed in. Or you just skip the PvE areas and go to the PvP area's to kill things. Seems like a really boring way to play personally. If you play that way, you will get to the end game without ever actually seeing any real part of the game. 
That's why I won't do it. They are trying to make money for alpha and beta. No, that's not the way it works. Don't pay for something like that. You are being robbed. 
Its the same thing as those that prefer the prequels to the original Star Wars movies. There are actually people that think the prequels are better. That doesn't make them right, it makes them young and inexperienced. Same thing for MMO's. People born in the 90's and 2000's, and even 2010's have always existed in an age where immediate gratification is the way of life. A permanent state of "I want it now and will get it" while the rest of us haven't. We grew up at a time when waiting and working for something produced a much deeper feeling of satisfaction. The sheer existence of the modern age promotes ADD and ADHD as the normal way of doing things. That doesn't make it right. It will swing back the other way eventually, it will just take time. 
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