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All Posts by Vesavius

All Posts by Vesavius

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6457 posts found

Another Dev moving away from the MMORPG by the looks of it.

 

Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Vesavius

This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.

I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".

Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.

F2P, and B2P, advocates are reaping the seeds they helped sow. 

Maybe now, after the blinders are lifted, we can get the genre to move back to the more economical and fair minded subscription model.

Oh yeah, renting a game for $200 a year plus DLC xpac for $50/$90 sounds really fair.

I haven't spent a dime on GW2 since I bought the box. 

Maybe you should also consider the many doing exactly that, are what leads to the current item of issue?

I suspect that he might be one of the guys that argues that the only 'good' cash shop is the cosmetic cash shop.

Because that's the cash shop he can easily ignore and therefore pay nothing into the game.

Freeloaders tend to argue strongly in this way.

Is that what you would suspect?

 

Yeah, that's what I would suspect....

 

Actually, mass edit because I have just realised that I don't care enough about it to argue it.

Originally posted by JackFrosty
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by thunderC
Originally posted by Dauzqul

What a disappointment ArcheAge turned out to be. The game-play and graphics are fantastic. However, the ruthless money-grabbing / pay-to-win aspect destroys it. It's like a strip-club... everywhere you go...  dollar... dollar... dollar... dollar... dollar.

The gold farming and economy is so bad right now. There are BOTS and AFK'ers around every corner.

This is the worst form of Pay-to-Win I've ever seen.

 

What a shame. If this game launched 10 years ago (when most games were solely based on sub without cash shop), it would greatly rival SWG. Now? It's a cash-grab joke.

Couldn't agree with you more, lets not forget all the broken mechanics ingame the cheating hacking exploits and the worst of all, the Vile community. Without question one of the WORST MMO's on the market right now.

Exploits you say - go ahead try one that works - see how fast you get banned now.

Vile community? Not true - loving the community on Ollo

Without question one of the best MMOs on the market currently - especially if you like guild PvP.

If you like PvE like raids and dungein runs - this is not the game for you.

But guild vs guild PvP - ArcheAge is head and shoulders above the competition.

Usually I agree with your posts but this time I don't know what your smoking. You can't login to AA and play for more then 5 minutes without seeing a hack going on.

 

ridiculous hyperbole.

Originally posted by Distopia
Originally posted by Torvaldr
Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Vesavius

This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.

I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".

Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.

F2P, and B2P, advocates are reaping the seeds they helped sow. 

Maybe now, after the blinders are lifted, we can get the genre to move back to the more economical and fair minded subscription model.

Oh yeah, renting a game for $200 a year plus DLC xpac for $50/$90 sounds really fair.

I haven't spent a dime on GW2 since I bought the box. 

Maybe you should also consider the many doing exactly that, are what leads to the current item of issue?

 

I suspect that he might be one of the guys that argues that the only 'good' cash shop is the cosmetic cash shop.

Because that's the cash shop he can easily ignore and therefore pay nothing into the game.

Freeloaders tend to argue strongly in this way.

Originally posted by Pratt2112
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Hyanmen
Originally posted by Vesavius

This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.

I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".

Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.

F2P, and B2P, advocates are reaping the seeds they helped sow. 

At least when I'm playing a P2P game I know I don't have to deal with sleazy dev tactics to disguise money grab ploy as a feature, and the constant power struggle between cash shop vs content focus.

Not to mention when your business model is so volatile (you don't know how much revenue you're getting month over month unlike in P2P), it is extremely hard to plan any long-term content development outside expansion packs that are expected to pay for themselves.

FFXIV and GW2 are the prime examples of what can happen. Meaty content updates every 3 months on the dot + expansion packs every year and a half. Promised features are actually released. When your game is B2P your promises amount to nothing outside maybe expansion packs. Everything depends on the ROI which the B2P devs can't anticipate ahead of time.

GW2 was released a full year before FFXIV yet the signs seem to indicate the latter is getting its first expansion before the former. This is ridiculous considering how much of the game's increasing value rests on expansion packs in GW2. I don't know what the hell ANet is doing, letting a P2P game get ahead of them on this. The players are getting royally screwed here.

I fully agree.

Even in 'F2P', such as AA which i am playing now, I just buy a sub and ignore the cash shop.

Given the choice I would have every game 100% sub all the time every time.

Sad that it takes something like this being done by a big-name MMO for people to snap out of their "F2P iz teh bestest!" mindset and realize the kind of devious crap that really goes on with this revenue model. 

What the OP describes and links to is the kind of crap *all* Cash Shop based MMOs pull. I posted a similar explanation a while ago, of  how CS's stagger the cost of items against the quantities of gems you can purchase at a time, to make sure people never have enough left over, for anything worth purchasing anyway, and always need to buy more.

And all the while, the devs dress it up to make it look like they're doing their players some huge favor.

I was told I didn't know what I was talking about.

Heh.

It's sad that some people will still attempt to defend it.

 

I have been on these forums a long time and, trust me, I understand where you are coming from.

EQ2, and, no, it wasn't my first MMORPG.

Just to dismiss that 'first kiss' cliche.

Originally posted by FlawSGI
Originally posted by Vesavius

 

I have said clearly that in AA I pay a sub right now and ignore the cash shop. It has no impact on me whatsoever and I have never complained about the CS in that game because it doesn't effect me. But nor have I promoted it as being a great thing, beyond allowing the time rich folks to play for 100% free if they so choose.

The only statement I have made about AA is that it isn't P2W, but that isn't relevant here so shouldn't be discussed really.

I have said in that forum that I am a fan and advocate of the sub model. Not because I think it makes the game 'better', but because I think it is a much fairer, more transparent, more honest, and more even way to charge for games like MMORPGs that are as much service as they are product.

So, 'exact'? No... No not at all. But keep sniping and looking to score cheap little points.

Please provide quotes or links that contradict what I say here if you choose to carry on with this kind of unfounded smearing.

And the exact same thing can be said of GW2. I bough the game and I supported it with a small gem purchase at around 3 months because I hadn't spent a dime and felt like I wanted to. I had earned enough gems for the account unlocks and upgrades already so it was purely optional and have not looked at the cash shop since.  I have many complaints about the game, but the CS has not been one of them.

 

Ofc the same can be said.

My statements aren't aimed at the guys just playing the game and getting on with it, because fair play to them. They are aimed at the guys who advocated and argued for the model then as Christ's own saving plan for MMORPGs, and are now here whinging about it, despite being warned about where it will take them.

 

 

I loved this game for it's vision, ambition, and scope. I loved it's world, it's dungeons, it's over arching philosophy of play. A perfect working optimised version of what this game was would be my ideal thing to play.

 

I hated it for the way it was mishandled from start to end. It was stillborn and left to rot, even as the midwife said she was there to save it.

 

The death of VG put the industry back in terms of design at least a decade. For that we all should mourn it's loss. 

Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Vesavius

I do blame the players that staunchly advocated and defended F2P/ B2P for where we are now, true.

Exactly. This one instance proves all B2P models are awful and subs lead to a bright future of brilliant, successful games like SWTOR and Wildstar. One could claim it's all about the execution in both cases and the B2P model that was sold to people isn't the one in use right now, but surely we mustn't be reasonable?

 

 

In your rush to be 'cuttingly' sarcastic, you seem to have missed the point.

No one said SWTOR or WS were made better games by being a sub, where did you get that from? SWTOR, for example, is a crap game IMO sub or F2P.... It's not worth my time whatever.

What was said is that the current state of monetisation in these games was allowed to happen by the players, and that the advocates and defenders of the model in regards to GW2 were told repeatedly that this kind of practice is where it would end up.

See the part in red? That's pointed out because it backs my point up. The B2P advocates for GW2 emotionally bought into the spin of Anet over the common sense of a minority of posters here on these forums. They are warned about slippery slopes and the bed they were making, and yet they argued bitterly to defend it. And now they are here complaining about it.

I don't have much sympathy for people that make their own beds after not listening and then whine about it

Wow.  Project much?  You and a few others are doing the exact same thing with Archeage.

 

I have said clearly that in AA I pay a sub right now and ignore the cash shop. It has no impact on me whatsoever and I have never complained about the CS in that game because it doesn't effect me. But nor have I promoted it as being a great thing, beyond allowing the time rich folks to play for 100% free if they so choose.

The only statement I have made about AA is that it isn't P2W, but that isn't relevant here so shouldn't be discussed really.

I have said in that forum that I am a fan and advocate of the sub model. Not because I think it makes the game 'better', but because I think it is a much fairer, more transparent, more honest, and more even way to charge for games like MMORPGs that are as much service as they are product.

So, 'exact'? No... No not at all. But keep sniping and looking to score cheap little points.

Please provide quotes or links that contradict what I say here if you choose to carry on with this kind of unfounded smearing.

 

 

Originally posted by DMKano

Exploits you say - go ahead try one that works - see how fast you get banned now.

Vile community? Not true - loving the community on Ollo

Without question one of the best MMOs on the market currently - especially if you like guild PvP.

If you like PvE like raids and dungein runs - this is not the game for you.

But guild vs guild PvP - ArcheAge is head and shoulders above the competition.

 

Absolutely agree.

But Trion could shit gold bricks right now and the hate herd would moan that they weren't shiny enough.

You can't fight fashionable crowd thinking with positivity and facts, sadly.

Originally posted by Nadia
Originally posted by Ridelynn

The limited number of abilities was a big tip-off.

look at DCUO, and PS2. Console-oriented. THey are telegraphing the direction they are taking pretty loudly.

I agree EQN will be ported to consoles but it  will likely be a year after PC  (like Elder Scrolls)

DCUO is the only SOE mmo that had a simultaneous multiplatform release

 

So we agree that there is a precedent? 

Originally posted by Allein
Originally posted by Vesavius

I remember Smed saying that the game will be on that system at the beginning of the year, but I wasn't expecting it to be seemingly primarily designed with that audience in mind...

Are they still going with 4 abilities on your hot bar at a time? I mean, I get that this is great for a controller, but it seems to lack depth?

I don't hate consoles, but I guess this probably doesn't spell out anything good for deep challenge or complexity for this title.

Smed can talk all he wants. He can't snap his fingers and make the game appear on any system. They don't appear to be developing for the PS4 currently, not that they can't be planning ahead, but it won't be out any time soon.

 

Sure, I hear you, but it is worth noting that the PS4 game has been confirmed already.

Just because they are using the PC version as their test bed, in the same way as they are using Landmark as the same, doesn't mean that it isn't the focus.

 

They were never going with 4 abilities on the bar. 12 has been the number since the start. I'm assuming they'll be more announced later (consumables, clickies, and what not).

 

Consumables and clickies are not abilities/ skills in the sense being discussed.

The demos I have seen, and I admit I haven't seen them all by a long shot so am willing to be educated with links etc, talk about 4 slot abilities. I actually saw an interview for Fanfaire this year that talked about the 4 slots, explaining that environment and cross skill effects would make it  somewhat deeper.

It actually felt like he was getting the explanations and excuses in early a bit to me tbh, but my mind remains open.

 

I wouldn't doubt if EQN comes to PS4 eventually, but it will most likely be a different game to some degree or at least tailored to fit the system (UI and Controls). Probably be some what popular, but if it isn't cross platform like FFXIV, highly doubt it would be too alluring to most mmorpg fans. Of course they could be going after the so called "console crowd" but again, doubt there would be many takers as if you are in that crowd, why would you want to play a mmorpg?

 

This last bit confuses me somewhat... Why wouldn't a SOE cash shop led MMORPG not be viable on a Sony console?

It being a different game seems somewhat of an assumption, considering Smed seems to be aiming the game directly at the PS4 even now. Designing  with both in mind from the outset seems the sensible business approach from the get go?

 

Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Vesavius

I do blame the players that staunchly advocated and defended F2P/ B2P for where we are now, true.

Exactly. This one instance proves all B2P models are awful and subs lead to a bright future of brilliant, successful games like SWTOR and Wildstar. One could claim it's all about the execution in both cases and the B2P model that was sold to people isn't the one in use right now, but surely we mustn't be reasonable?

 

 

In your rush to be 'cuttingly' sarcastic, you seem to have missed the point.

No one said SWTOR or WS were made better games by being a sub, where did you get that from? SWTOR, for example, is a crap game IMO sub or F2P.... It's not worth my time whatever.

What was said is that the current state of monetisation in these games was allowed to happen by the players, and that the advocates and defenders of the model in regards to GW2 were told repeatedly that this kind of practice is where it would end up.

See the part in red? That's pointed out because it backs my point up. The B2P advocates for GW2 emotionally bought into the spin of Anet over the common sense of a minority of posters here on these forums. They are warned about slippery slopes and the bed they were making, and yet they argued bitterly to defend it. And now they are here complaining about it.

I don't have much sympathy for people that make their own beds after not listening and then whine about it

The Banner Saga is a great game and one of the ones I point to when the anti Kickstarter crowd start harping on.

Very much a fan.

Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Vesavius
Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Vesavius

This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.

I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".

Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.

F2P, and B2P, advocates are reaping the seeds they helped sow. 

ANET decided for the game to be B2P, not the players.

 What a confusing statement of the obvious.

We are clearly talking about those who advocated and championed the model.

It's not confusing.  You are just trying to shift the blame to the players as if their support for the B2P model and how it was described by ANET somehow makes ANET less culpable.

 

Well, clearly you find it confusing, because that's not what I said at all.

I do blame the players that staunchly advocated and defended F2P/ B2P for where we are now, true.

But I also equally blame the companies for their unethical profiteering.

I blame both. Look at the bit in red. It's a clue.

Originally posted by Vorthanion
Originally posted by Vesavius

This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.

I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".

Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.

F2P, and B2P, advocates are reaping the seeds they helped sow. 

Maybe now, after the blinders are lifted, we can get the genre to move back to the more economical and fair minded subscription model.

 

It would be nice to think that, but I can't see it happen any time soon.

But then, when these forums were staunchly pro themepark I never thought that I would see the direction of fashionable opinion spin so quickly towards sandpark design.

Maybe I am wrong here as well and general opinion will flip in a very short time. Fingers crossed.

Originally posted by grimal
Originally posted by Vesavius

This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.

I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".

Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.

F2P, and B2P, advocates are reaping the seeds they helped sow. 

ANET decided for the game to be B2P, not the players.

 

What a confusing statement of the obvious.

We are clearly talking about those who advocated and championed the model.

I remember Smed saying that the game will be on that system at the beginning of the year, but I wasn't expecting it to be seemingly primarily designed with that audience in mind...

Are they still going with 4 abilities on your hot bar at a time? I mean, I get that this is great for a controller, but it seems to lack depth?

I don't hate consoles, but I guess this probably doesn't spell out anything good for deep challenge or complexity for this title.

 

Originally posted by Hyanmen
Originally posted by Vesavius

This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.

I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".

Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.

F2P, and B2P, advocates are reaping the seeds they helped sow. 

At least when I'm playing a P2P game I know I don't have to deal with sleazy dev tactics to disguise money grab ploy as a feature, and the constant power struggle between cash shop vs content focus.

Not to mention when your business model is so volatile (you don't know how much revenue you're getting month over month unlike in P2P), it is extremely hard to plan any long-term content development outside expansion packs that are expected to pay for themselves.

FFXIV and GW2 are the prime examples of what can happen. Meaty content updates every 3 months on the dot + expansion packs every year and a half. Promised features are actually released. When your game is B2P your promises amount to nothing outside maybe expansion packs. Everything depends on the ROI which the B2P devs can't anticipate ahead of time.

GW2 was released a full year before FFXIV yet the signs seem to indicate the latter is getting its first expansion before the former. This is ridiculous considering how much of the game's increasing value rests on expansion packs in GW2. I don't know what the hell ANet is doing, letting a P2P game get ahead of them on this. The players are getting royally screwed here.

 

I fully agree.

Even in 'F2P', such as AA which i am playing now, I just buy a sub and ignore the cash shop.

Given the choice I would have every game 100% sub all the time every time.

Originally posted by Scalpless
Originally posted by Vesavius

This is the harsh reality of monetizing a no sub game.

I guess all the people saying that they like F2P as long as the shop only sells cosmetics didn't buy enough cosmetics. I guess what they meant by 'cosmetics' though was "stuff that i don't ever have to, and of course won't ever, buy".

 

Take away the sub from a AAA MMORPG and it seems people expect it to run on fresh air and just be provided as a gift to them for entertainment.

People expected it to run on money from expansion packs, just like GW1 did. Besides, it's not a gift when you have to pay for it.

 

Wait, I heard a ton of people talking about how it's cash shop would be super cool and just like the one in GW1. As in mainly cosmetics. They were fine with a cosmetic cash shop, probably for the reasons given above.

The fools that argued for the brilliance of F2P/ B2P never understood where that road would take them, despite being told about it a million times. Again and again me and others spoke about the slippery slope and how these games were really monetised in other territories They knew better and thought that cosmetics would be the end result. They are now learning the hard way.

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