i look forward to playing it, i mean why not? it looks fun and any added space content to a game like this is just an added bonus.

---

Originally posted by arieste

---

Originally posted by karat76
 I can't remember ships  being used as transport from A to B or for space battles.

---

The whole reason Han and Chewie exist in the films is because they're smugglers adept at transporting things from A to B and hired for this purpose by Luke and Obi-Wan.
Luke is also a skilled pilot.  Lando is also a smuggler.  
Smugglers are actually one of the classes in the game and having smugglers without ships and smuggling is pretty stupid :)
 
That aside, despite my generally dislike of BioWare's direction with this game, I have to admit that graphically this looks good and even if it's just a rail shooter at launch, it gives me hope that it can and will be expanded to being something more in the future.   I'd really like to know what you can do in your ship other than just shoot stuff. 

---

you are assuming they will not be smuggling at all? one would assume that in that class's story arc, there will be some smuggling involved.

what is more stupid, pretending you are smuggling something and just pointlessly going from point A to point B or actually doing it within an actual story?

the only real difference is you don't manually fly there in a persistent galaxy and instead you get this space combat along the way.

---

Originally posted by nubadak
You can't have Star Wars without space.
 

---

i know you are just trolling but...

KOTOR and its fans disagrees with you.

---

Originally posted by MacLinux
railshooter.
I won't pay a sub for this joke. Good luk(e) to fans.

---

yes, because all this game is going to be is a "railshooter" lol

---

Originally posted by Anubisan
I thought that looked really cool to be honest. By doing the rails system, Bioware can give us a much more cinematic experience. Some of those battles looked straight out of the movies!
While I agree it is a little disappointing that we will not have a full-fledged space game like X-Wing / Tie-Fighter, I know that was never the focus of the game. I want Bioware to focus on their strengths and I think this will be a nice diversion from the regular ground game.

---

good post i agree 100% :)

---

Originally posted by Volkmar

---

Originally posted by baphamet
 

---

Originally posted by Elikal

---

Originally posted by baphamet
 

---

Originally posted by Elikal

---

Originally posted by baphamet
 

---

Originally posted by Elikal

---

Originally posted by Volkmar
Most MMos have races that can be just certain classes, so far SW:TOR is no different and it is left to see how many classes there will be and how limited they are. If it is really one alien race per class only, well that is a bit limited, yes, but I personally would not much care... I would LIKE them to use less human-looking races like the Trandoshian or the Ithorian but I am not going to lose my sleep on it.
As for the background story, it actually sounds quite good and in line with what, for example, EVE character creation is like. Weird that they invert the usual Race ---> background progression, but I guess we will see.

---

 
Well I am most influence by EQ2 and then SWG, where there were practically no limitations. With the EQ2 betrayal quest you could even make an Orge Paladin. I recall one rolepaying such one, and man he was great. It was a rare thing, since few player Ogres and even fewer betrayed to the good side. But that made him stand out, and it was great fun to meet him. Such things shaped my idea of a MMORPG, emphasis on RP. Roleplay for me means, YOU the player shape the role, even if its something totally absurd or strange. If you can play it convincing, it can really enrich the world.
In EQ2, where you could mix everything, still many people stuck to the usual. So it wasn't like the world was suddenly upside down. But it gave you chances. I played a Darkelf Paladin, and ppl often roleplayed the distrust towards a Darkelf and the doubt for a Darkelf to become a Paladin. But it made my character something special, since there were very few Darkelves in Qeynos and I had not seen anyone becoming Paladin. That is what makes Roleplaying great: that YOU chose who you be. That it's not some set on rail pathway and all Zabrak are Darth Mauls and not all Twi'lek are smugglers and not all Bothans and spies, but you the player decide. You make that biography! I firmyl believe even a story driven MMO can make that. I say open all races for all classes, and let people roleplay and chose for themselves, not some smartass developer sets us on rails like they do in the space shooter!

---

perfect example of unrealistic expectations.
so you expect bioware to implement a story from start to max level for every single race/class combination? really?? LOL
me personally, i would like to play this game this decade.
also, this game is nothing like eq, if that's what you expected...a sandbox game, you should have stopped following this mmo the moment it was announced.
 

---

No offense meant but, thats quite rigid thinking. Why does EVERY NPC have to react to EVERY possible race/class combination?
Star Wars is a galaxy of tens of thousands of species and hundred of thousands worlds. Why should any inhabitant care what job you have? With the exception of a Sith pureblood and races who can't use the force, I don't see any reason why a Bothan Jedi or a Twi'lek soldier would be treated special.

---

i don't think you understand what i am saying. there is a unique story line for each race/class combo that will be playable from lvl 1 all the way to max level.
have you played dragon age? think backgrounds/origions except it goes all the way to max level IIRC. so what you are expecting is them to put a unique story arc for each class/race combo and that's not even considering what specialization you chose, which i am sure changes the class story as well.

---

God give me patience.
You know, DA was a single player game, yes?
Can you imagine sitting in a cantina, and EVERY other smuggler with given background X is Twi'lek JUST LIKE YOU? I find that idea absurd. Otherwise TOR is an interactive movie with co-op option. Then at least they should be honest and not call it a MMORPG. Otherwise have fun with Clone Wars Vol. 2.

---

 
LOL so we are changing the subject now? again, you can argue that they are not doing the right thing by having a unique story line for each playable class/race combo.
but since that is what they are doing it is very "illogical" to expect every single race/class combo to have a unique story.
you cant have it both ways, either they scrap that idea completely and do what you are suggesting, or keep doing what they are doing which is consistent with their brand.
they are sacrificing freedom for story, if you don't want to play an mmo like that then i don't know what else to say, i don't know why you expected anything different.
also, i fail to see how having a lack of freedom all of a sudden makes in a single player co-op game, that makes absolutely no sense.
because characters are similar? are you kidding me?? not only that but you are forgetting that there will also be different specializations (which will likely change the story as well) "no offense" but god needs to give you more than patience i am afraid.
 

---

Well, the thing is that IT IS weird that, say, all Twi'Lek in the game are <insert background X here> while Humans can be let's see... assuming 3 backgrounds per class and 2 of those are humans... so 8 classes, 16 backgrounds..
The Star Wars universe IS quite varied and the various races are nowhere near as specialized as this would make it seems like. Yes, Ithorians are more adept at technical stuff than your average Wookie, but nothing stops an Ithorian to be a police officer if he wants. Infact on their home world all professions will most likely be done by Ithorians.
The "different class/race combo storyline" is something new I heard. I thought there was 1 STORYLINE PER CLASS, not per race/class combo. Yes, like in Mass Effect, a small number of dialogues might reference that you are a Gladiator instead of something else, but those are nowhere near the bulk of the game. It has already been established that your voice is also set by sex and nothing to do with race, so it does seems peculiar this race restriction...
Take the Jedi.... through the movies and the books, we have witnessed a LOAD of variety of races as Jedis... infact about every race (beside the ones that are blind to the force like the Hutts) could become a Jedi.
As stated above, this does not bother me much, but it makes you wonder what is the reason... that coupled with no-non humanoids races will make this the most human centric Star Wars games in a long time.

---

i understand what you are saying but i just don't think they could pull it off with having a unique story for each class/race combo.

i am not arguing that its a good idea to even have the unique class/race story arcs, because i am sure that is a lot of work to put into an mmo.

---

Originally posted by Zoomzoo
I played KOTOR 2 to the end.  It was okay.
My hopes were high when this initial project was announced,
I was excited initially because I dreamed about how cool it would be to have a galaxy to play in.  An entire galaxy filled with Republic troops, Rebels and smugglers.  Filled with worlds and space stations.  Wow!  Of course the later expansions of this dream MMO would add more worlds with more to explore and do. 
Then I learn that SWTOR is not a a galaxy - it is a story (or 8 of them if you do them all).
Ugh... Then I learn that space travel is not travel at all, but is a story-driven space combat mini-game.
Unless something changes or I learn something radically different, I now have no intention of purchasing SWTOR on release - maybe 6 months after release when the price goes down -  if it gets excellent reviews.
My opinion is my opinion.

---

you didn't play KOTOR 1? 2 wasn't even made by bioware and was nowhere near as good of a story as 1. you could literally make a star wars movie with the story from KOTOR 1, it was that good.

while i don't blame you for wanting a sandbox game, the moment they announced it would be story driven MMO (like the original KOTOR game) it was never going to happen.

seriously, did you think they would make a completely different game when they announced it would be a mmo designed around the KOTOR universe?

did you think they would totally scrap it and make a game completely unrelated to their brand?

that said, i don't blame you for waiting six months after release if this is not your cup of tea, no mmo is for everyone.

---

Originally posted by cureyas

---

Originally posted by dirtyside
where does it say huge open world ? huge meaning what ?
what makes this a good mmo is its STAR WARS fool ! :)

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 Only if you are into Star Wars .

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then why are you following this game? LOL

---

Originally posted by Garvon3

---

Originally posted by baphamet
are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?
i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?
many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!

---

So you're saying we should expect their massive budget MMORPG to be like their SINGLE player game? 
 
Well, all evidence so far says it'll be basically a single player "MMO", so I guess that's right, good point. 

---

no, i don't believe that's what i said at all. read the thread, read what i am saying and get back to me.

to be honest, judging by this post,you don't seem to know too much about the game if you think it will be a single player game.

---

Originally posted by arieste

---

Originally posted by baphamet
 i don't see any difference between a single player game and an mmo in terms of representing the IP.
 

---

And that's the problem.  Mine or yoursi don't know.  Maybe i'm just too old and grew up with MMOs that tried to create worlds rather than just short experiences.   That was the main thing that made me play MMORPGs, that i could experience a different world.  Not that I could run the exact same quest i do in a single-player game just with a chat room attached.  That seems to be the trend today and the direction bioware is taking, just make a single-player game multiplayer.  I'm sure it'll be a successful game. 
 
But to me personally, it's not a good star wars mmorpg until it lets you experience the star wars world.  I don't have the same expecations of single player games.  For single-player RPGs, I expect developers to tell me a story and i'll go wherever they set that story.  Anything beyond that is just bonus.  In Mass Effect (which i LOVE) i never logged into the game and though "as an inhabitant of the ME universe, what do i want to do today? - it's never happened.  I always log in and i'm commander shephard and i know the next part of the mission is to do X.  or sometimes it's a choice between X & Y, but basically i'm contuing the story, i'm not living in the world. 
 
In a MMORPG, i want to log in into the star wars universe and think about all the possibilities presented by this amazing IP and to have the opportunity to do many of the things I love about star wars.  And while I accept that no game can have ALL possible star wars things to do, I believe having a ship and being able to go somewhere and smuggle something or get attacked are so critical to my experience of star wars, that without them, the experience is incomplete. 
 
Again, maybe it's because i'm too much of geek, but I want to be like Han Solo, i want to be in that cantina, looking for customers or cargo for my ship, so i can make up the money i owe because of my failed smuggling run.  And I want to have the choice of having dumped that cargo in the first place, and i want to outrun the empire and i want my smuggling reputation to be well-earned and i want to do the kessel run in record time... etc. etc... to me, these things are so intimately tied to the idea of star wars that a WORLD without them is not complete.  A short game without them (like KOTOR) is just fine, especially a game in which i'm told that i'm person X, whose skills are Y and who is participating in the story Z.  But the second it becomes about me making the choice of who i am, where i live and what i do - if it's set in star wars, then i'm getting on a ship. 
 
And to be honest, I hated X-Wing and Tie-Fighter games, i'm terrible at them.  But what can I sayexcept: "my star wars includes the stars".    And while not all star wars games have to include both space and ground gameplay,  an MMO definitely does.

---

good points and i don't totally disagree, i would like to play a game like that as well. that said, did you expect that from bioware?

yes maybe at the beginning some may have thought maybe they would go out in left field and make a sandbox type MMO

but as soon as they announced it will be a story driven mmo, something new and fresh to the genre, you should have realized right then and there that this will not be a game like you are hoping.

but i still don't see how extensive space combat would change any of this? you would still have class story arcs, the main story arc, and everything else.

i also cant see them making you only do the story content without letting you explore and do your own thing.

there just wont be space exploration

---

Originally posted by arieste

---

Originally posted by baphamet 

just don't understand how any of you guys (who share your opinion) ever liked any of the KOTOR or ME games.

---

several of us have directly answered this question for you.  those were single-player games.  one expects a totally different experience from an MMO - in which you spend 3-5 years - and a single-player game like ME in which you spend 1 week.  Not that time spent is the only fact, in a single-player RPG, it's just a story and your part in that story.  In an MMO, it's the creation of a world to live in and have different stories in.
I think all of us have played very successful MMOs that had no space gameplay and had no complaints about it.  I've been playing EQ2 for the past 6 years and I never once complained that it really should have space gameplay of any kind.  So we know an MMO without space gameplay CAN be built and be successful.  We just don't think that a Star Wars world without space gameplay is a good representation of the IP.

---

that is a very biased and inaccurate answer though, simply because you are amusing that there will not be enough content in this game so it "needs" extensive space content.

also, the end of your post is telling.....if no space content isn't a "good representation" of the IP, then why was KOTOR so successful? because it was a single player game so it doesn't count?

as long as there is plenty of regular content i don't see any difference between a single player game and an mmo in terms of representing the IP.

it does not need extensive space content just like the other games didn't. some of you seem to think it does because that's what you want but the success of the single player KITOR games beg to differ.

---

Originally posted by Elikal

---

Originally posted by baphamet
 

---

Originally posted by Elikal

---

Originally posted by baphamet
 

---

Originally posted by Elikal

---

Originally posted by Volkmar
Most MMos have races that can be just certain classes, so far SW:TOR is no different and it is left to see how many classes there will be and how limited they are. If it is really one alien race per class only, well that is a bit limited, yes, but I personally would not much care... I would LIKE them to use less human-looking races like the Trandoshian or the Ithorian but I am not going to lose my sleep on it.
As for the background story, it actually sounds quite good and in line with what, for example, EVE character creation is like. Weird that they invert the usual Race ---> background progression, but I guess we will see.

---

 
Well I am most influence by EQ2 and then SWG, where there were practically no limitations. With the EQ2 betrayal quest you could even make an Orge Paladin. I recall one rolepaying such one, and man he was great. It was a rare thing, since few player Ogres and even fewer betrayed to the good side. But that made him stand out, and it was great fun to meet him. Such things shaped my idea of a MMORPG, emphasis on RP. Roleplay for me means, YOU the player shape the role, even if its something totally absurd or strange. If you can play it convincing, it can really enrich the world.
In EQ2, where you could mix everything, still many people stuck to the usual. So it wasn't like the world was suddenly upside down. But it gave you chances. I played a Darkelf Paladin, and ppl often roleplayed the distrust towards a Darkelf and the doubt for a Darkelf to become a Paladin. But it made my character something special, since there were very few Darkelves in Qeynos and I had not seen anyone becoming Paladin. That is what makes Roleplaying great: that YOU chose who you be. That it's not some set on rail pathway and all Zabrak are Darth Mauls and not all Twi'lek are smugglers and not all Bothans and spies, but you the player decide. You make that biography! I firmyl believe even a story driven MMO can make that. I say open all races for all classes, and let people roleplay and chose for themselves, not some smartass developer sets us on rails like they do in the space shooter!

---

perfect example of unrealistic expectations.
so you expect bioware to implement a story from start to max level for every single race/class combination? really?? LOL
me personally, i would like to play this game this decade.
also, this game is nothing like eq, if that's what you expected...a sandbox game, you should have stopped following this mmo the moment it was announced.
 

---

No offense meant but, thats quite rigid thinking. Why does EVERY NPC have to react to EVERY possible race/class combination?
Star Wars is a galaxy of tens of thousands of species and hundred of thousands worlds. Why should any inhabitant care what job you have? With the exception of a Sith pureblood and races who can't use the force, I don't see any reason why a Bothan Jedi or a Twi'lek soldier would be treated special.

---

i don't think you understand what i am saying. there is a unique story line for each race/class combo that will be playable from lvl 1 all the way to max level.
have you played dragon age? think backgrounds/origions except it goes all the way to max level IIRC. so what you are expecting is them to put a unique story arc for each class/race combo and that's not even considering what specialization you chose, which i am sure changes the class story as well.

---

God give me patience.
You know, DA was a single player game, yes?
Can you imagine sitting in a cantina, and EVERY other smuggler with given background X is Twi'lek JUST LIKE YOU? I find that idea absurd. Otherwise TOR is an interactive movie with co-op option. Then at least they should be honest and not call it a MMORPG. Otherwise have fun with Clone Wars Vol. 2.

---

LOL so we are changing the subject now? again, you can argue that they are not doing the right thing by having a unique story line for each playable class/race combo.

but since that is what they are doing it is very "illogical" to expect every single race/class combo to have a unique story.

you cant have it both ways, either they scrap that idea completely and do what you are suggesting, or keep doing what they are doing which is consistent with their brand.

they are sacrificing freedom for story, if you don't want to play an mmo like that then i don't know what else to say, i don't know why you expected anything different.

also, i fail to see how having a lack of freedom all of a sudden makes in a single player co-op game, that makes absolutely no sense.

because characters are similar? are you kidding me?? not only that but you are forgetting that there will also be different specializations (which will likely change the story as well) "no offense" but god needs to give you more than patience i am afraid.

---

Originally posted by Unlight

---

Originally posted by baphamet
are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?
i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?
many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!

---

 
I've been a fan of Bioware since Baldur's Gate.  But even so, I felt from the get-go that they wouldn't do the IP justice, at least not from my perspective.  I'm an old-timer, but I wasn't in 1977 when Star Wars was released.  The first trilogy made a huge impression on me and I have a very defined sense of exactly what the idea of Star Wars means.  It's not a concept that I share with many, but I'm willing to guess that those with whom I do have it in common also tend to be on the older end of the scale.
That being said, I only feel compelled to comment since the concept of space combat they are introducing is so ludicrous, that it invites derision.  Truly, they would be better to go without than to include something so ridiculous.  The whole on-rails thing is counter to the concept of space combat that was introduced with Star Wars, again, in my opinion.  I'm sure that they will be able to put together a fine game when it comes to various other aspects, but it seems idiotic to me to even bother with including what appears to amount to little more than sideshow gameplay.
I don't really blame Bioware for not building a game that would live up to my expectations since I fully admit, my expectations are sky high.  In fact, I don't see any developer out there who could pull it off.  Even Lucas couldn't reproduce the magic when he created the second trilogy.  But "on-rails"?  Seriously?  A developer with Bioware's pedigree should know better.
I sincerely hope all of you who choose to play it, find it a good experience.  It's just not for me -- not because of the space combat system, but because I'm confident it won't be able to live up to the experience of sitting down in front of the TV, making some popcorn, and watching the actual films again.  The originals, by the way, not the remade blasphemies.  Anyone who knows that Han actually shot first, knows exactly what I'm talking about.

---

i seen every star wars movie ever made in the theaters when it was released, so i see where you are coming from.

however, how did you like KOTOR at all considering it didn't have space content at all? this game was never going to have expensive space content just like none of their other games did.

IMO they only put the space combat in to add to the story and immersion, nothing more. at least with the space content they did implement, you know that there is a conflict going on in space and you are a part of it.

rather than the original KOTOR games where you just fly from planet to planet.i also disagree that they are better off going without any, it adds to the story and to immersion.

if you don't like that, hey that's cool.......but i just don't understand how any of you guys (who share your opinion) ever liked any of the KOTOR or ME games.

---

Originally posted by Elikal

---

Originally posted by baphamet
 

---

Originally posted by Elikal

---

Originally posted by Volkmar
Most MMos have races that can be just certain classes, so far SW:TOR is no different and it is left to see how many classes there will be and how limited they are. If it is really one alien race per class only, well that is a bit limited, yes, but I personally would not much care... I would LIKE them to use less human-looking races like the Trandoshian or the Ithorian but I am not going to lose my sleep on it.
As for the background story, it actually sounds quite good and in line with what, for example, EVE character creation is like. Weird that they invert the usual Race ---> background progression, but I guess we will see.

---

 
Well I am most influence by EQ2 and then SWG, where there were practically no limitations. With the EQ2 betrayal quest you could even make an Orge Paladin. I recall one rolepaying such one, and man he was great. It was a rare thing, since few player Ogres and even fewer betrayed to the good side. But that made him stand out, and it was great fun to meet him. Such things shaped my idea of a MMORPG, emphasis on RP. Roleplay for me means, YOU the player shape the role, even if its something totally absurd or strange. If you can play it convincing, it can really enrich the world.
In EQ2, where you could mix everything, still many people stuck to the usual. So it wasn't like the world was suddenly upside down. But it gave you chances. I played a Darkelf Paladin, and ppl often roleplayed the distrust towards a Darkelf and the doubt for a Darkelf to become a Paladin. But it made my character something special, since there were very few Darkelves in Qeynos and I had not seen anyone becoming Paladin. That is what makes Roleplaying great: that YOU chose who you be. That it's not some set on rail pathway and all Zabrak are Darth Mauls and not all Twi'lek are smugglers and not all Bothans and spies, but you the player decide. You make that biography! I firmyl believe even a story driven MMO can make that. I say open all races for all classes, and let people roleplay and chose for themselves, not some smartass developer sets us on rails like they do in the space shooter!

---

perfect example of unrealistic expectations.
so you expect bioware to implement a story from start to max level for every single race/class combination? really?? LOL
me personally, i would like to play this game this decade.
also, this game is nothing like eq, if that's what you expected...a sandbox game, you should have stopped following this mmo the moment it was announced.
 

---

No offense meant but, thats quite rigid thinking. Why does EVERY NPC have to react to EVERY possible race/class combination?
Star Wars is a galaxy of tens of thousands of species and hundred of thousands worlds. Why should any inhabitant care what job you have? With the exception of a Sith pureblood and races who can't use the force, I don't see any reason why a Bothan Jedi or a Twi'lek soldier would be treated special.

---

i don't think you understand what i am saying. there is a unique story line for each race/class combo that will be playable from lvl 1 all the way to max level.

have you played dragon age? think backgrounds/origions except it goes all the way to max level IIRC. so what you are expecting is them to put a unique story arc for each class/race combo and that's not even considering what specialization you chose, which i am sure changes the class story as well.

---

Originally posted by Elikal

---

Originally posted by thexrated

---

Originally posted by Pigozz

Geez guys what did you expect??!like seriously?... this was a completely sure thing as everything in the game is VOed...Just think for a sec:
I know they're saying this is their biggest game but still if they VOed every possible combination for every race and class and background, they'd be VOing the next 10 years *SHRUGING MY HEAD*
FullVO is their biggest feature and yet it is still their biggest enemy concerning possibillities...

---

I am pretty certain that voice overs got nothing to do with the issue. What I understood is that your character voice is determined by your sex, female or male.
Race/Class restrictions will be due to lore and immersion. And possibly due to gameplay content, as certain races might have their own special missions and/or events (like how they are treated within the gameplay by others when initiating conversation etc.).
For example, it would make little sense to have Sith Purebloods running around as Jedi Consulars.

---

Why? Are all Africans musians? Are all Chinese traders? Are all Germans policemen? Are all Swedish cooks? Thats ridiculous. Why should an imaginary race not have people who live their lives different even if it has a mainstream? Thats totally illogical. If you have story, choice matters. If choice matters, why destroy the most important choice: on what side I am on? It makes no sense.

---

because there is a totally different story for each class/race combination that will be playable. you can argue that they should not do it that way but that is how they are doing it (which is consistent with some of their other games)

its simply "illogical" to expect them to have a unique story arc for every single class/race combo imaginable.

yes freedom is being limited at the expense of story, not everyone likes that and i say to those people, go play a sandbox game and leave my bioware game alone.

i am not happy about it being limited either but i am glad that they are sticking to what they do best and being consistent to their brand.

my only fear is it being too linear and not enough end game content.

---

Originally posted by Elikal

---

Originally posted by Volkmar
Most MMos have races that can be just certain classes, so far SW:TOR is no different and it is left to see how many classes there will be and how limited they are. If it is really one alien race per class only, well that is a bit limited, yes, but I personally would not much care... I would LIKE them to use less human-looking races like the Trandoshian or the Ithorian but I am not going to lose my sleep on it.
As for the background story, it actually sounds quite good and in line with what, for example, EVE character creation is like. Weird that they invert the usual Race ---> background progression, but I guess we will see.

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Well I am most influence by EQ2 and then SWG, where there were practically no limitations. With the EQ2 betrayal quest you could even make an Orge Paladin. I recall one rolepaying such one, and man he was great. It was a rare thing, since few player Ogres and even fewer betrayed to the good side. But that made him stand out, and it was great fun to meet him. Such things shaped my idea of a MMORPG, emphasis on RP. Roleplay for me means, YOU the player shape the role, even if its something totally absurd or strange. If you can play it convincing, it can really enrich the world.
In EQ2, where you could mix everything, still many people stuck to the usual. So it wasn't like the world was suddenly upside down. But it gave you chances. I played a Darkelf Paladin, and ppl often roleplayed the distrust towards a Darkelf and the doubt for a Darkelf to become a Paladin. But it made my character something special, since there were very few Darkelves in Qeynos and I had not seen anyone becoming Paladin. That is what makes Roleplaying great: that YOU chose who you be. That it's not some set on rail pathway and all Zabrak are Darth Mauls and not all Twi'lek are smugglers and not all Bothans and spies, but you the player decide. You make that biography! I firmyl believe even a story driven MMO can make that. I say open all races for all classes, and let people roleplay and chose for themselves, not some smartass developer sets us on rails like they do in the space shooter!

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perfect example of unrealistic expectations.

so you expect bioware to implement a story from start to max level for every single race/class combination? really?? LOL

me personally, i would like to play this game this decade.

also, this game is nothing like eq, if that's what you expected...a sandbox game, you should have stopped following this mmo the moment it was announced.

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Originally posted by someforumguy

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Originally posted by baphamet
are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?
i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?
many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!

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I really like Bioware games which is also the main reason why Im looking forward to SW: TOR. About the spacecombat, I didnt even expect any spacecombat untill they announced it.
But now they chose to add it at launch, Im a little disappointed. I rather wouldve seen SW:TOR being shipped without spacecombat and maybe spacecombat later on added as full expansion pack. So that they wouldve had the time to develop something like JTL in SWG. 3D space with several types of ships, each with an interior you can walk around in during spacetravel/combat like the POB's in SWG.
Anyway, now that they chose to implement the spacecombat on rails type of game, itll be a missed chance. There is no way that they will turn it into a full 3d space part of the game. So thats why Im a little disappointed.

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i understand where you are coming from with saying you would rather they not add it at all. i just think they don't ever intend on implementing extensive space combat or exploration in this game.

IMO i think they added this just for story and immersion purpose alone. people may not be too keen on how the combat is implemented but at least this is telling us (while playing the game) that there is indeed a conflict going on in space and we are apart of it.

i am not saying i am totally satisfied with it either but i am going to reserve judgment until i see i for myself.

but i will say that i am not expecting any kind of sweet action space content, more geared twords RP and story i am sure.

that is what should be expected in my honest opinion. that said, maybe they will make it so you don't have to play the space combat at all if you don't want to?

i think i heard something about that somewhere but cant remember where.

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Originally posted by Nesrie

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Originally posted by baphamet
are you fans of bioware games? did you even play the original KOTOR or mass effect games? if so, did you like them?
i can certainly understand wanting to play a star wars mmo with extensive space combat. what i don't understand is why any of you expected it from bioware, considering they never did it in the original KOTOR game?
many consider that one of the best RPG's of all time, certainly one of the best starwars games in my opinion.....all without space combat, go figure!

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 I like some, but not all, of Bioware's games. I am not really upset about the space combat. I just don't like it.

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you dont have to like it, or bioware games, or this game for that matter. the reality is, extensive space combat and exploration is an unrealistic expectation for a bioware "KOTOR" stawars game because it isn't consistent with anything they have ever done.

would it have been sweet to add that kind of content on top of the regular story/ ground content? hell yes! but to expect that from them and be upset that it isn't in there?(not saying you are)

i just don't get it. this is a bioware mmo, more importantly this is KOTOR turned into an mmo. they don't need to reinvent the wheel with this game or go out in left field.

they just need to do what they say they are doing and concentrate on what they do best....story telling and rpg.....not space combat, especially at the expense of regular content.

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Originally posted by Nesrie

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Originally posted by Souldrainer

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^^^^ this! I am worried that bioware is going to be forced to work on this, and then every major facet of the core game will be cut short and/or ruined because of the narrow-sighted whiners who can't see one expansion pack into the future... yeah... we're gonna end up with rogue squadron 4 instead of kotor 3 :(

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 If they weren't going to put any real effort into this part of the game, they should have left it out until they could do so. Your insults are not necessary, but then again, some of these die-hard fans can't seem to do much more than stomp their feet and run away with their fingers in their ears.

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maybe they don't ever intend to put extensive space combat or space exploration in the game? after all, none of their space games have ever had that kind of content.

i think with the info they have released, the space content they do have is mainly for story and immersion.

they don't need to have extensive space content to have a successful starwars game, its been tested and proven.

and no, just because it is an mmo does not make that fact any different as long as they have enough regular content, which they have claimed they do so we will see.

some people are upset by this and if they are a fan of KOTOR and bioware games in general, i really don't understand why.

actually, yes i do....its this forum and the way its always been. people crying because they don't get the game they want with unrealistic expectations only to be let down once again.

or its just a pointless "haters" vs "fanboi" flame war.

which is why until recently, i have steered clear from posting here.

LOL some of you people make me laugh.

you act "surprised" or "let down" when bioware releases information about this game that has been consistent with all of their games.

as if you expected something totally different than what they have done in the past, which has made them as successful as they have been with their games.

honestly, if you were expecting a sandbox mmo with all sorts of freedom to make up your own story, i don't know what to say but to laugh at you and your unrealistic expectations.

i am sure this type of game isn't for everyone, but don't act as if this game even had a chance to be anything near a sandbox game where you have freedonm to make your own story.....what the hell do you think these guys are doing? wasting their time implementing all the story dialog just so you can make your own story???

LOL think about it for just a second.

if you don't like this type of game i don't know why you are here following this game because this is how all bioware games are....makes no sense to me.