Originally posted by rogue187
just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't have depth...it has more content than any game out there...it can ( as a noob) keep you busy for years.. it kept me busy...like i said it depends on your outlook of what "in depth" is...

Although outdated. WoW does not come within an AU unit of the content and depth present in EQ1. It still has expansions releasing, adding to that depth.

Seems obvious to me that you started with WoW. I don't mean that in a demeaning way. Just if you really think it has the most depth, then you didn't play any before it...or completely ignore some others that may surpass it because it's your personal favorite. Seems to me anyways. But I could be wrong and you could just be trolling too. /shrug

P.S. WoW's content doesn't take years. Even if you do absolutely everything there is within it. Eve can take years. But I feel mainly due to the skill system where it can take months to train one skill.

Originally posted by craftseeker

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by snapfusion

Originally posted by Yamota

Gaming has been on the decline for years. Technically they have become more advanced but the game play has become more and more shallow and less complex. The entire gaming industry has been progressively dumbing down titles.

Why? Well to appeal to the (younger) masses which in general have a short attention span and pretty stupid.

So yeah, this year will be a bad year and every other year until developers start creating better and richer games and have that as a priority instead of just making more and more money.

To further extrapolate on this,

No patience

No problem solving skills

Raised on console gameplay

And yet all research shows that "kids these days" are smarter than ever...

You know who you are? -You are the MMORPG elderly living in a home, gawking out the window and wondering aloud "Where the world has come to?".

The world keeps on moving forward with or without you.

I think that warrants at least one link.

And I'd personally remove the word 'forward' from that last line. 

 

Well IQ scores certainly move up from generation to generation, it is called the Flynn effect.  In general, countries have seen generational increases between 5 and 25 IQ points. However it is debatable as to what IQ score actually measures.

As to the post I have certainly noticed that younger players in general have:

• less patience
• less interest in problem solving in MMORPGs
• a lof of experience in console games and a desire to move features from console games to MMORPGs
• a desire to avoid playing low level content and move straight to MOBA style end game play
• a more abusive attitude and a higher tolerance for bad language and intolerent behaviour

Yep. Seems the more technology thrown at people, the less they think for themselves, or do themselves if it can be done for them"conveniently". The more technology, the dumber people get when thinking for themselves is not required in other words.

But now you've opened a can or worms.

Originally posted by jtcgs

Sorry OP, it will never work.

There are far far too many people that are either consumer whores, consumers who feel they have no power or outright fanboys.

Those are the people most companies target anyway.

I mean, just look at Apple, they became the largest company on the planet via fanboys and consumer whores willing to pay insane prices for slightly above average products that for the most part, are not bringing anything new over the previous iteration they overpaid for last year!

So true....sadly.

Originally posted by jazz.be

Unemployed.

It totally fits the idea of playing the game as if it's their job.

Students have other things on their mind, even if they an spare much time. So do people with jobs.

They're either unemployed, or they actually live from gaming with sponsering or some sort.

But you are leaving out the possibility of college kids who want to party and don't study much....and simply can't fit in with, or get into fraternities. What else would they do with their free time?

Originally posted by mogi67
It's all the same old shit anymore, really. 

This. Same game in different wrappers.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Goatgod76

Originally posted by Quirhid
 

Ugh...the inconvenience rebuttal again.

Death penalty with some substance (xp loss or gear damage) makes that fight that much more exciting and scary for many people. That sense of what could happen if you lose, Sure, if you die it really sucks...but if you win, it's that much more gratifying.

Death penalty with some substance makes you think before you act. Otherwise you can just Rambo into a fray because if you die nothing happens. That's just boring...to me anyways. Should be consequences for stupidity...like rushing a group of 6 enemies solo and expecting to come out unscathed.

Yeah like it is better when nobody takes ANY risks and only take on engagements they are absolutely sure they will win. How exciting is that?

Death penalty is a cheap thrill. I'd rather have the game rely on gameplay for fun. Gameplay, atleast, is fun for everyone.

Taking on engagements with little to no risk is personal preference and doesn't effect everyone. Boring to me, but some just don't have the cojones to make it interesting. But many like a challenge of taking on mobs lvls higher than them, or groups of them. I do it all the time.

Especially when you know if you fail, you FAIL via xp loss, or some other form of death penalty beyond a respawn as a ghost and safely retrieve your gear with a tiny inconvenience of maybe the travel back to where you were. Which in most cases isn't an issue either with all the various forms of instant travel, flying mounts, etc.

Taking away death penalty with some sting ruins it for EVERYONE. It's a double edged sword.

Could just as easily say being able to go through the game to cap with little to no fear of death is a cheap thrill too. Depends on your outlook and playstyle.

Originally posted by Talonsin
As a person who spends a lot of time around college students I can say there are many college grads who took majors in subjects like history, english, homeland security, underwater basket weaving and such that once they graduate, they simply cant get a local job and they refuse to move to another city for jobs.  They sit home at their moms house and play games and if they are motivated, they get a part-time job in retail "until the job market opens up".  Seriously, how many college grads do you know who either dont work, work part-time or have crappy jobs that dont require a degree?

This is very true too.

The saddest part is that world 1sts are so important to players. I mean...is your RL so bad you have to be important/significant in a game? I just don't get the draw other than to say "Look at me! I'm so cool!"

I play to have fun, not be "top dog" in every category I can.

Don't get me wrong...I care in FPS games, where it's more meant for stat boards. But in MMORPG's? No, not at all.

Originally posted by h0urg1ass

Originally posted by FallguyArmy

Originally posted by supertouchme 

jesus christ. there's no masochism involved in valuing death penalties

So why do you value death penalties in MMOs? What would be the benefits? You said it yourself previously that you don't like them, they frustrate you, and that you admitted they're an inconvenience. Yet, you said you appreciated their purpose. So what purpose does death penalties serve? 

They make your accomplishments meaningful. 

When you wipe out a hostile fleet of ships in EVE Online, they don't respawn in a new ship and come right back to the fight.  You just blew up their ship.  It's gone. Adios.  Time for them to buy a new one and and the modules and guns that go on it.  You accomplished something.  They now no longer possess a game item that they once did.

When you kill another player in most modern MMO's... well ok.  Cool.  All you really did is teleport them to a different part of the map.  Awesome I guess.

Personally I prefer games where death has a consequence.  It gets my adrenaline flowing more, it makes the fight much more tense.  Especially if I'm risking losing something really big and expensive and difficult to replace like a deadspace fitted Machariel that I sometimes fly when I'm feeling especially courageous.

These games are in the extreme minority, but I tend to gravitate towards them for the meaningful consequences of living or dying.

This sums it up nicely.

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Robokapp

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

Originally posted by Robokapp
OP I will point out in the most honest way possible why it makes no sense to you: you're looking at it wrong. "So I died...I lose 25% xp...how am I supposed to kill anything". whoa whoa whoa. you started at death ? let's back up another 3 minutes. you're alive. you're seeing a pack of wolves. Do you engage ? it's an important question because you might die and lose 25% xp and run into the problem you stated. why should you fight them? what are the odds you'll win? what are the risks? do you know these wolves well? are you risking it ? is it worth it ? if no death penalty...run in, die, respawn, kill survivors. Booooooring

 You mean you don't do that anyway, regardless if there is a penalty or not?

we dont. you know we don't.

Hell, I only play cause fighting wolves is fun. What other point should there be? Not winning is punishment enough, isn't it? What if I don't get a rush from a high death penalty? What if its merely an inconvenience?

Ugh...the inconvenience rebuttal again.

Death penalty with some substance (xp loss or gear damage) makes that fight that much more exciting and scary for many people. That sense of what could happen if you lose, Sure, if you die it really sucks...but if you win, it's that much more gratifying.

Death penalty with some substance makes you think before you act. Otherwise you can just Rambo into a fray because if you die nothing happens. That's just boring...to me anyways. Should be consequences for stupidity...like rushing a group of 6 enemies solo and expecting to come out unscathed.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by paulytheb

 

Tell me again how big a failure Eve is.

Let see .. it was released what .. 7-8 years ago .. and it is stuck at what ... less than 500k players after all these years.

Even MMO failure like TOR has more players .. and sold 2M boxes in its first month.

And this shows how little you know about MMO's...as sub numbers aren't the absolute deciding factor in the quality and success of a game. It's been running with increasing sub numbers (P2P mind you) for 7 or 8 years tells it's success alone...as most of the types last 6 months to maybe a year or so these days before merging servers, going F2P, or shutting down all together.

They may get high sub numbers...but only briefly before falling apart.

Originally posted by crysent

Alright - It's a serious question, I know it sounds a bit silly, but, I've been thinking about this for sometime now.

 

Do you think spies may utilize mmo's to communicate with sources or eachother or their home agency by using various mmo systems? (in game email and chat?).

It seems it would be rather easy to get away with, especially if you used a mmo themed communication code.  If you did it through some random small game from a country other than the U.S. it would be very hard for any govenment to get logs and records if they were suspicious.

Anyway, I know it might sound a bit ridiculous, but was just something that has crossed my mind from time to time...wondering what other people think?

Why not. It's possible.

Islamic Terrorist groups have been found to put encrypted messages buried in porn sites to one another...since such things are against their religion...no one thought to look there for quite some time.

Originally posted by Latronus

Originally posted by delete5230

Originally posted by Aethaeryn

I agree with a lot of what you said.  The thing is though.  If my grandpa had played an MMO he likely would have said the same thing about UO, EQ etc.

The generations and lifestyles are different so the market adjusts.  From my perspective it is only likley to get worse. . but then I don't have as much time to play anymore either.

*sad bugle music*

Well I really dont think that the generations of people really asked for the new changes, but the developers are pushing this new crap on us.

I disagree with this.  The entitlement generation wants instant gratification or they whine, rant, and leave.  They want to do everything solo and having to talk to people is counter productive.  It isn't that the devs are forcing this on us, but the masses are wanting it. 

This sadly.

Originally posted by Inf666

Less about the setup, more about the game mechanics and long term content please.

I do not care if it is a sci-fi, survival horror or fantasy. If it is the same old as in the recent years I will not play it.

My question is: What do you want to do differently in comparison to existing (failed) games?

Well first I'm not really producing such a game. I REALLY wish I could, but no...I'm not. This is a just for fun thread to brainstorm such a game. If you have ideas..please by all means add them!

Originally posted by Quirhid

I'm not sold yet with that list.

But you are familiar with Jeff Strain's newest project?

Nope. What is it? Something similar?

And add or take away from the list. That's the point of the thread. =)

Originally posted by AlBQuirky

Over on the Bethesda Skyrim Forums, there is a topic about how long people have logged on Skyrim. Since you HAVE to go through Steam, keeping track is pretty easy :)

The game is 15 months old now and many people have well over 1000 hours played, myself included. I look at this and shake my head at MMOs today.

My latest MMO delvings have been far less than 500 hours. The last being GW2 for about 350 hours.

MMOs are supposed to be the games that keep players playing for a long time. They constantly update their games and introduce new content and patches. They are supposed to be "works in progress" that keep players interested in logging back in day after day.

I put in well over 1000 hours each playing EQ, CoH, WoW, and Wizard101. I just don't find the longevity in new MMOs anymore.

For $60 US I can buy an MMO that I will more than likely play for 300-400 hours (aka: maybe a month or two) if it is any good and be done with it, having personally saved the world (to no visible effect) and seeing all the vanilla content I desire to experience.

OR...

I can pay $60 US and buy a single player RPG that will last me years of playing and entertainment.

Yes there is DLC in SP games and expacs for MMOs. There are patches for both types. There are sometimes mods for SP games, but I usually do not do those unless they are graphical improvements (like widescreen Morrowind and Oblivion playability).

Single Player games I still play:
SW:KotOR I and II (2003 and 2004, respectively)
Morrowind (2002)
Oblivion (2006) (I keep trying to get into this one :) )
Neverwinter Nights I (2002) (I do have some player made mods for that one)

Anyone else finding they are turning to single player RPGs for their long term game play when they could be looking towards MMOs for that? (For those players that look for long term enjoyment from games, that is.)

Yep. I find myself buying more single player RPG's, etc. And sadly...they last in the entertainment and replayability sectors far better than any current MMORPG.

Originally posted by Cecropia
I wouldn't even hesitate on a game like this. I especially like the idea of having the option upon death to either restart at zip, or become a zombie until someone puts me out of my misery. This would seriously help with longevity.

Think about how your trying to have the longest survival time (There could be a stat board), so it would make it actually kind of scary for you if you are being chased by a bunch of zombies trying to kill and/or eat you.

It would be like Resident Evil, but on a grander scale.

Originally posted by spookydom
Love the idea of players turning into Zombies on death. Doing the same thing in board game rule set I am writing at the moment.

Would be good as well if the players name didn't show either except to the player if in 3rd person. This way those still trying to survive won't know if the zombies coming at them are NPC's or players..or maybe both. So More unpredictable ones are mixed in with the rift raft.