I have been in countless beta's since my first, which was EQ. I can tell you on reason why beta testers do not do the job anymore. It comes right down to auto-responses to bug reports. In a recent beta I was involeved in, I had to report the same bug 8 times before I got an actual response, all the rest were computer generated, hello I hear you are having an issue, did you try this crap.. Needless to say, I had no interest in doing that repeatedly, so my bug reports were much less often.

So, as a developer, I ask you to do the same thing I ask my bank, my cable company and everyone else...stop being so automated. While it might get rid of the flow of bug reports that truly are garbage...it also deflates those that are dedicated to the task. Give us IN GAME petitions again with guides/advisors or whatever...that we can TALK to about an issue.

Keep a list of GOOD testers and call upon them again, in the next game. That in itself is a perk to do a good job. Make a rating system for your developers to RATE the bugs reported and assign scores to the testers. Give perks for good reports and an ongoing relationship in future games. Things like bug squasher as a title, would be a valuable perk in the long haul of the game. 

Forced PvP. Enough said. It's one style of game I won't participate in no matter how good the game is otherwise. Been there done that and have the scars and losses to prove it.  Sad though, as the game looks to be pretty good. Maybe we will get lucky and they will make a server specifically for people that do not wish forced PvP. 

I won't go into any details about Pking, as it's all been said before. I just keep hoping the korean developers will see the concerns and actually make changes. Gotta say, there are some great games out there that I have really enjoyed, till the griefing hits. Simple solution, make another server. Keep both types of players. Win/Win.

Oh and just because someone does not like forced PvP does not make them a carebear. It makes them a person that does not need headaches in their online gaming entertainment hours. Have enough of them in RL.

I am older as well...I was in the beta for the original EQ, if that gives you a clue as to how old that might be :)

I think I have played just about every MMO out there. Not at once mind you, but usually one at a time. Once in a while, two, but that is very rare.

There have been a few games that keep my interest for longer than 2 months, but only a few. Generally, those come with some form of GOOD (and trust me it's hard to find one that has a good system) crafting AND merchanting system. Crafting, keeps me "invested" into the game. A reason to come back and see if I made a profit, or if my goods were popular.

A few games that have kept me going were games like A Tale in the Desert, or the ever popular WoW-EQ-AO etc or even less known and played games like Luminary (Goonzu).

Games that give me something to invest into, keep me longer. A house, a pshop, some form of unique something...armor that shows that I made it because my name is listed on it etc. Too few games do this, so most times I find myself burning out and moving to the next game of interest after a couple months.

I am not big into PvP, but I do enjoy it here and there but I won't play forced PvP style games. Memories of the original UO comes to mind here...that game was very painful when it first came out, so I avoid most the games with conflict without choice.

I do feel sad when I leave...and I always think, I will come back one day. But it's rare that I re-visit a game once I have left.  Some days I play a game for one day and think, nope...no reason to even play further. It's missing what I want in a game. It's that one moment, when you first log on and start...that grabs you or not.

I have tons of fond memories from the friendships that were built in EQ. That game was open to making friends easily....shouting in OOC... Looking for more for the Crypt Camp...etc. Social was so much easier and no so broken down as it is in games now. So many of the item mall games make you play for that ability (which to me, is one reason so many don't play them). After EQ, I remained in contact with every single friend I had made, for years. Eventually, I lost touch.  The new friends I have made, are not really friends. We are fast groups made by the game...not by our effort. It's not the same, and to me, it's one reason why social connections are not as available, nor as fun.

I miss those moments, and I still look for them in every game I visit. But staying in a game...that...would take better social interactions easily available. More investment for me to care about...(crafting, equipment, homes etc).

Long term, games fade because it's the same thing every day. If they would just freshen up loot, add more or different styles monthly, that would help to motivate folks to stay...to constantly gain something new and different.  They don't always have to add a whole new area...just change things out, and make it fresh. And...don't tell them you are doing it. Let that group hunting it find it out and shout it to the world. :)

Gave this one a short...very short try. While I can see that the game is decent, the English translations were a mess. Impossible to follow the story, let alone have any real clue how to play the game. I really wish that these issues were fixed while in CLOSED beta, because now, in open beta...it's a huge turn off. I tried it once, and I will not return. Most MMO's have a one time chance to grab someone and this one, with it's HUGE translation issues, did not grab me.

Originally posted by Delvie

Actually it would be nice to have an overall list of games that has more categorization options.  If the current list would get cleaned up in the process that would be even better.  Here's the kind of list I'd like to be able to generate from a master list:

Equipment:  PC (or Xbox, or Android, or Apple)

Online?  Yes

Multiplayer?  Yes

Meetup Areas:  World (or Lobby, or Cities)

Character Persistent?  Yes

Housing? Yes

Crafting?  Yes

I'm sure others would like to know stuff such as Payment Model, PVP, and Setting (fantasy, space, etc.)

Basically as long as I have some way to filter out what I consider noise and not interesting I don't really care what gets covered.  One caution though is that the year coming up is promising to be a very busy year MMO wise and you don't want to dilute that coverage.

 

HEAVY Agreement on the Crafting option especially. It's been nearly impossible to find games that have crafting.  There are quite a few players that really would appreciate this being easier to find out about a game.

In general, sub-categories are fine by me. I would like to know which are TRUE MMO's vs flash based or other styles of online games etc. I appreciate all the games for what they are, but sometimes I am in the mood for something specific and really want an easier way to find them.

Just be SUPER clear on the style of game and the details and all is well. 

Oh, and please...set up something to show games that are FORCED PVP. Nothing worse than jumping into a new game and getting ganked upon entry.  Give some sort of description as to the type of PvP that is in the game. Forced PvP, Duels Only, Arena Only, Turn on/off etc would be very helpful.

I have no issues with online markets using real cash. EQ tried this years ago and I thought it was a good idea then too, I just don't think the implimentation of it was good at all.

If I play Diablo over and over and never get the piece to finish my set, then why not buy it?

Yes, there will be scammers and other issues...and I can't say Blizzard has been good at fixing those issues in the past. Look at WoW, how many people had their accounts stolen? Lots. Did they fix them? Sometimes. So, do I trust them to do a good job? Maybe...IF they learned from their mistakes. Personally, I am not so sure they have.

Does Blizzard want to make money from doing this, absolutely. It makes great business sense to add a market like this. Will it control the farmers? No, but it might give an opportunity for others that are NOT farmers to make a bit of cash while having fun.

Will I use it? Maybe. If the costs are too high, no. I have a business mind too and hopefully Blizzard will not only consider THEIR pocketbook. It has to be well balanced to make it work on all ends or many will not use it. I won't gamble my real cash to put something online that might not sell.

All in all, time will tell on this one. I look forward to the new Diablo, with our without this option.

First off, I love my PC. I game on my PC and avoid consoles at all costs. 

If I am forced to play on a console because a game came out that I just have to play, I play it and trade it in as fast as I possibly can. 

I am a woman, console controllers are hard to manage in my small hands. They weigh too much, are too big and in general are massively hard to handle. Yes, they have smaller ones, but who tests these? Can't be female, cause if it was...there is no way they could play using these things for more than a couple hours without screaming out in pain.

Yes, women play games and yes, one of the reason's we DON'T play more is due to consoles. They are not friendly to females, not at all. In fact, they growl at us when we even look at them sideways.

Why is facebook popular to women? Because it's on our computer...where we can type to our friends, use the keypad and happilly click away at our games. NOT because we are old or unhappy or anything else. Women love to game, but consoles are a HUGE turn off. No, I am not speaking for all women, but I am speaking for a large number that I know personally and have spoken to on this topic.

Why do I play MMO's? Because it's on my PC, not a console. Lets talk about the MMO's that have come out for the console AND the PC...oh, wait...Final Fantasy...UBER fail.

As for Ipads and all the other touch type screens. No issues there...just give me a keyboard I can attach and I have no issues. Just DO NOT give me a controller.

I need to add one small note...cause there was one game, I played regularly on a console and loved it. Rock Band. Course, I did not need to use the controller much and the guitar had the same issue for my small hands...but that's ok, it was a blast anyway. But...the music is gone from consoles and that makes me sad. But everything, eventually, must come to an end.

<waves> Have a nice day :)

This game can be played directly from facebook, which is handy. I believe it's flash based, but it's in 3D (and for this type of game, they did a good job on the 3D)

While there are still a few bugs, the game is entertaining and worth a look if you are already someone that is on Facebook. It is an MMO style, many players are in the game at all hours.

It's a HUGE crafting game, so if you like that, it's certainly worth a try.  The only issue I had here was that there is SO much that you collect for crafting, it can become a bit overwhelming.

It is similar to an item mall game, you can purchase items to make the game easier (storage etc), but the game itself is free.

This game has a light feel to it, I don't feel the pressure to push hard. But because I am enjoying it so much, it's been fairly quick to level. It's a cute game, graphically. I don't see much lag, if any. There are very few bugs even though it's brand new. It's easy to learn, but there is a great deal of depth to the classes. PvP duels are available, via consent.

I love the fact that I only need one character and can switch out to any of the classes. Each class has to be leveled individually, but it's been fun doing it. It gives me a great feel for all the classes and I have found, I like many of them even though, I never thought some of them were my playstyle.

There is a grind, but it feels much less of a grind than other games. Lots of repeatable quests help, plus redoing instances is also a nice way to gain exp and loot. Gear does need to be repaired or replaced as you go.

There is no real crafting in the game (which is a slight disappointment), but there is crafting of a sort. You don't actually do the work, NPC's do it for you. You get a work order, gather the materials (using NPC's as well as collecting some from drops) and then turn it in to the NPC who makes it for you.  The only issue I have here is that it always seems to be behind a bit. When you are level 30 and want to create that new gear, it takes a while to collect the dropped items. So, I could not create the gear till I was around level 35, which by this point, if you have run some instances...you may no longer need it.  If I had enough cash though, I could have bought it when I was level 30, that would have made it more useful.

Guilds have the ability to build their own town (you have to level the guild and earn the guild some gold in order to do it). In fact, guild towns are the only way to receive the work orders to create the crafted items level 40 and up. You can visit other towns if you are not in a guild, though you will pay a tax to purchase from them if you are not in that guild.

This is an item mall game, so...of course, you will want to get bags. That is the biggest issue in the game (space/storage). Generally though, many players buy them off the mall and then sell them for in game gold. So, don't stress if you don't wish to put real money into the game, the items do become available as other players buy and sell them.

Overall, I would recommend this game (if you don't mind cute graphics). It's really enjoyable and easy to learn.

Also, the Dev's are very hard on gold spammers and have quite a few things in the game that helps to control the issue. It's still there, but so far, it has been MUCH less than in other games of this style.

I had a Ranger/Marksman/Bard setup and I really enjoyed it. Great for solo and ranged play styles. Not sure how it is at higher levels, but I did get to the mid 20's and found it to be a nice solid blend. My main focus was on the ranger, so the largest amount of points were dedicated to that soul.

The starting tank pet was very useful and manages to keep aggro very well.  The second pet is a damage pet and at my level, I found it to be quite a bit less useful. Did not notice that much of a damage difference from the first pet and this one did not keep aggro.

I tried a variety of souls in all the branches. Gotta say, I really did appreciate that portion of the game. Quite a few options and directions. Gives everyone a real opportunity to be unique in their skills if they wish.

Loved the game till level 30. Well done and enjoyable. Took 2 weeks to get to 30, with average play time (5-6 hours a day).

After 30, it became a grind on daily quests. Their grouping system needs a serious overhaul. Waiting an hour for ONE PVP match, is rediculous. Trying to auto-group has the same issue.

So,  I got a free month and now cancelled. Fun month, but that's about it for now.

This game needs a complete overhaul. The issue about guildleves was brought up during beta, but was ignored (as was most things brought up).

I won't play this game, it's just not worth the time. It's sad though, I really wanted it to be a great game. But when dev's don't listen to their players, they deserve what they get.

Agreed with the previous posts about ATITD, WURM and Ryzom. They should all be on this list.  It's likely they were left off because they are not top-rated games with mid-high end graphics, which is sad. It's also sad, that the best games out there MMO wise, that have crafting are NOT top-end games. Personally, I would love to see if a game has crafting (it should be on the MMO LIST as a tag) as I could care less if it's got PvP or not.  I just want to craft and merchant my items. :)

Really glad to see ATITD mentioned. While there is no fighting with weapons, it does offer a pretty crazy political arena that ends up with quite a bit of drama and can be quite entertaining. Basically, fighting with your wits is what this game is about. The crafting is just about the best out there, very creative and original. Other developers could learn something about how to build a truely thought out crafting system.

Wurm Online would be good to mention as well. While the graphics are not the type to make you swoon, it's got a solid group of people playing and some seriously unique game play. It does have a fairly difficult learning curve, but it's a worthwhile game to give a try. Especially if you like crafting (and lol, it's probably obvious that I do).

Good game. Well, it is for the first 6 months or so. I have played this game for all 4 tales and always end up becoming seriously bored or frustrated around the 6 month marker. The first 6 months are filled with active and lively players. All of them trying to be the first to accomplish something, or open a new technology. It's actually quite fun and busy.

The game is due to restart in the coming months, so if you are looking to try something new and you love to grind crafting and competition between players (not in fighting, but in political arenas and crafting skills) then you most certainly should try this.

As time passes, the activity level slows down and the competition mellows. Then you start really feeling the grind. The community is amazing...truly amazing. But the developer doesnt tend to listen to his players as much as he should. Each tale he makes new changes to the game play, which you would think...would be a refreshing change. But genenerally, it isnt. He changes things that people like into something they don't...and forgets to change the things that people scream about.

Each tale lasts around 2 years, give or take. Then it's wiped and you get to start over. Which is actually something I appreciate...however, I wish...it was more often. Game play needs to be that first 6 month fast pace all the way through...THEN it would be a good game. Starting over gives everyone a chance to try the game with a new approach and for those that play games with micro-managing styles, you know how much fun it can be to rip it all down and rebuild.

Solo works just fine as does being in a guild. Solo is harder, but you just need to be good at trading. This game has a slow pace, so you never have to rush unless you want to be the first to build a new tech (and figure out the puzzles that go with it).

Overall, the game is worth playing. It's fun to watch your camp build up and grow. The game gives you a true feeling of ownership (you build every single thing you have) which is why griefing can be a serious issue. Laws are made by the players and players vote on the lawmakers (which are called demi-pharoahs). Sadly though, the demi-pharoahs have very little they can really do to help certain types of situations.

I am still playing (though very little) the current tale. I won't be returning to the new Tale. I won't say it's a bad game, cause it isnt. I will say the Developer really needs to listen more and stop making changes that actually hurt game play. Give it a try...it really is worth it for the first 6 months of a new tale.

Crafting is available. However, sadly it's not really crafting (as in, you have to actually focus and put effort in, in RL) ..but it's not a clickfest either.

Basically, if you have alot of cash in game that's all you need to progress. You stand in front of equipment and tell it how much to produce of a certain item, then you just watch the animations as it does so. You can also do crafting quests to skill up if you don't want to produce useable items, but want to gain experience.

The process is very boring and lackluster. I would say that the crafting part of the game is a serious disappointment for those of us that actually like to craft. It's not about skill at all, but rather more like...I need some dinner, let me set myself up to craft while I do that.  I can't say this continues at the high end of the game as I have not gotten that far yet, but I imagine it's the same throughout.

Harvesting is something everyone can do as they are out and about. The goods you harvest never move (they spawn in the same spots), though the rare of that type of item might show up instead.  You will need alot of harvested goods to create items. So if you arent into the "watch yourself craft" style, and don't mind harvesting, then grab them as you fight. They will sell well to those leveling crafting. Remember though, you have to level up your harvesting skill, so be sure and harvest regularly if you want to collect the higher end mats.

I can say that the items produced in crafting do have value and the merchanting side of the game is very active. Their auction house is horrible to use, but the Pshops do very well for sellilng the goods.

Originally posted by SwampRob

Just to offer another point of view; I never pvp.    Never.   I played Wow for four years, turned down challenges from others dozens of levels below mine, refused duels even from guildmates, etc.   

For me, I don't feel good about winning a fight with another player, and I certainly don't feel good about losing one.    And, while I'm not trying to sway anyone's opinion, to me, open world pvp'ing is the equivalent of online bullying.

For those that enjoy pvp, have fun.   Personally, I'd like to see at least one MMO where there was no form of PvP whatsoever.

In many ways I agree with you. I too do not appreciate PvP in it's current forms and think that your turn "bullying" is an exact fit. I have played some PvP over the years and generally find it more annoying, than entertaining.

So many games are geared towards PK and gankfests. These types of PvP are simply NOT fun. The people at the top of the heap are generally the only ones that have "fun" and in order to get to the top, you have to fight through the sludge for weeks getting pissed off and tossing things around the room in real life. Then you have to focus so hard to stay at the top, that you have no time to do anything else.

• What I hate about PvP is, losing gear...period. Losing gear that took ages to get or craft or whatever, is a serious turn off to me.  (read more below on my suggestion to fix this)
• What I don't mind about PvP is, capture the flag type of scenarios. However, many of them are no longer fun as they are more like a herd of cattle running from one end to the other rather than any strategy.
• What I like about PvP is, gaining titles and gear for accomplishments. NOT simply kills, but TYPES of kills that involve strategy to accomplish.  Can you imagine getting a piece of gear for being the top rated fireball tosser? Or maybe the best DoT healer?

I will not play a game that only has PvP. This is a gankfest waiting to happen. I will consider a game that has an "option" for PvP or arena type challenges. I will choose a game with PvP if my entertainment is in my control and I can decide what style of PvP I want to be involved with (if any).

Honestly, I don't care how many "kills" someone has against my realm. Even though the person may have truly worked hard, used strategy and been honorable...I don't see that. What I see is this person is likely a PK jerk. This is not the players fault, it's the developer for building games over the years that made us feel this way.

I would prefer to see what isnt so obvious, like...how many times they used a particular skill. That gives me the chance to use some strategy when I face off with him/her (useful for arena styles). Lets see, they tend to use fireball alot, ok...what is something I can use to defend myself etc.

Maybe PvP should be different each time you play, maybe only a random set of skills will be useable. Thereby giving everyone a handicap, forcing them to use their minds instead of just their guns/swords/fists. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying take away important skills, but rather, have skill pools. Each player can select which skills they want in the pools, those are the skills that may, or may not come up when involving themselves in PvP. It will be random. Can you imagine if you are a Mage and suddenly you only have direct damage spells to use and no DoT's? That would surely make life more interesting.

Don't take my gear. Not my PvE gear at least. If you want to have players drop gear, then give them PvP gear they switch to, that they earn and that...and ONLY that, can be taken from them.

 In general, this is my play time, my entertainment. Choices belong there and I should never feel forced to do anything. PvP is a different mindset and in order to make it fun, changes need to be made. Yes, some of you like it the way it is. That's great, but... in order for the developers to gain the market of us out here, that DONT feel the same way, they need to make changes.

What exactly are the losses during PvP (when you die)?  What are the gains to winning?

A Tale in the Desert gets my vote. The level of depth and puzzles for crafting keeps even the most intellectual crazed. It's the best I have found in any game, so far.

As for 2nd place, I would choose Vanguard.

As for 3rd place, probably EQ2 with UO in the running as well. UO was excellent "in it's day".

Atlantica Online is decent, but it's a no brainer. It's more about the merchanting than the actual crafting.

Now, if we could just get Blizzard to work with Teppy (ATITD) we would have the best crafting game all around.

Originally posted by bartoni33

I have to agree. Waiting a few minutes before EA starts to fix issues that have been known for a while is not the way to do business. Is FunCom a part of SOE?

I saw this and had to laugh! Yep, good old SOE has their own start up issues each, and every time.

Personally, I don't mind the 3 hours,. I do find myself wondering though, why...can't they figure out they need more time prior to the last few minutes? I am more sad, than mad and a bit disappointed too.

For some reason, game developers seem to forget what it's like to the the players. Many people plan their day around an opening of  a game.  Gads, I set my alarm!  I gave up sleep! =p

These start-up issues do play a role in how people feel when they walk into the game for the first time. But I will say, if the game blows me away, I will quickly forget about the late start.

$5 is not much cash to play for 3 days. Go to the local arcade and see how long 5 bucks lasts there.  However, it's more the point...if you give early access for a price, then you really should be on time.

Time moves too slow. *cries*