Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Zeroxin

http://www.massively.com/2009/11/25/space-combat-star-trek-online-community-qanda-answers/

Read that and we shall commence ROUND 3?

That doesn't say anything about group combat.  Seems irrelevant to the thread, honestly.
 

It says something about how you fit your ship and I thought that was relevant to the thread.

Descender: Will STO have a tactical feel similar to the old Starfleet Command games, where you could utilize almost everything on your ship, from ECMs to Tractor Beams? Or is it more focused on movement and shield management?

Space combat is entirely tactical. You will manage power, shields, position, firing arcs, engines, Bridge Officers as well as your own abilities. There are hundreds of player and Bridge Officer abilities from Tractor Beams, boarding parties, ejecting warp plasma, cloaking devices, emergency power, sensor scans, sensor jamming, deflector beams, attack patters, holograms, ramming speed, and on and on and on. - This describes the sheer amount of stuff you can have on a given ship.

Mikx: In an interview, a developer stated that science vessels now innately target subsystems. Is that still the case, and how does that work?

Science vessels have the innate ability to target an enemies subsystems – weapons, shields, engines or auxiliary. When you activate this ability, your beam weapons will weaken, or "debuff", that subsystem. There is also a chance the attack will take that system offline for a short while. Some Bridge Officers also have a skill to target subsystem. These skills are better than the innate versions available to all science vessels, but they are limited to targeting a specific subsystem. So any ship can target subsystems if they have a Bridge Officer that has the skill, but you will need to dedicate 4 Bridge Officer skill slots to have access to all 4. - This describes how not only science vessels can "debuff" ships or target subsystems but that other ships can take up these roles only by changing bridge officers or adding those abilities to them. So that totally rules out the fact that ships only have one role they can play in a given battle. And also you can change bridge officers in between battles which means roles could be switched between battles in order to be more effective.

Isn't that what we've been spending time arguing about or has the discussion changed from the topic at the top of the page?

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Warjin

pvp is a major part of the game from what I understand

LINK?

Klings versus fed. Dedicated region where pvp can take place.

http://www.massively.com/2009/11/25/space-combat-star-trek-online-community-qanda-answers/

Read that and see for yourself.

http://www.massively.com/2009/11/25/space-combat-star-trek-online-community-qanda-answers/

Read that and we shall commence ROUND 3?

Originally posted by Kordesh

 *sigh* so pretty /= If only the game were actually like that.

Not featured in the video

- The hours of prep time

- The weeks/months of grinding isk to support the amount of personal ship losses for that kind of battle

- You, getting popped and knocked out of the battle in the first 5 minutes

- Whiny screaming commander of your megacorp over Vent

- Mind blowing lag with that many ships in one cluster

- The usual "blob" formation tightly packed around the gate

or if you're not part of one of the major alliances

- You mining roids/mission grinding and fleeing from pirate gangs day after day. 

The point is that still it depicts what would or could happen in a battle in 0.0 no matter what they missed out or added in. Now stop nitpicking and enjoy the vid for what is is.

ROLL ON PLANETARY INTERACTION info please, I want to get excited about something I will actually have more of a hand in.

This thread is still going strong? This topic of micommunication is really something isn't it?

Originally posted by metalhead980

Originally posted by MMO_REVIEWER

You wake up in the morning. Play XBOX(maybe) or make breakfast if you even eat breakfast.

You then get on your laptop and click Iexplorer.exe which youve cleverly renamed "porn palace".

You've got mmorpg.come set as your homepage. The first thing you see is an ad for the game that you hate. Instantly you migrate to that games forum.

you scroll down the list of threads saying "i gotta see this.." and "are you effing kidding?" or "oh god..more Q.Qing"...

Now you have several tabs open of all the threads you want to read and reply to. And you've got your flame thrower ready.

Next thing you know your on a holy crusade to bash the hell out of game X and game Y.

You then open up a completely new browser window that your dedicating to researching things about the games you hate...

feeding your flamethrower with more ammo you run across a thread that particularly pisses you off. It mentions your favorite game! - - - its on now!

You pause and do all the research you can and come back with an arsenal of tanks, flamethrowers, fighter planes, and the big nuke you want to drop at the end. You bash the OP in the form of a 90 paragraph long post and end it with  "Cheers". Then you copy and past it into word to make sure your spelling and grammer is on point because you can't spell.

Now your tired and its midnight. You watch a bit of porn before bed play your xbox one more time, eat a pop tart, and mozy on off to bed.

The next day you wake up and realize your thread got 50 replys of other haters with hefty flame throwers...you grab your self a pop tart and say "it's flamin' time!"

and it begins again......

 

Or atleast thats how i see haters living O.o

So your basically calling forum posters no lifers?

I'm shocked that someone would be so bothered by other people that enjoy criticizing/defending games.

This bothers you enough to make a thread on the subject?

 

I have a full time job and get to post on forums in between client calls :)

My wife aggro would be pretty hardcore if I just sat at home all day flaming you softies.

 

 

 

Haha, I think its aimed at the general "torch" community.

Originally posted by DiSpLiFF

Originally posted by McAvoy

This truly looks like the next step in MMO's. I was starting to think MMO's were always gonna be plain, boring, and without any excitement or change, but now it looks like an actual world.

I'm as excited as i was when i first started playing my first MMO and i have been trying to find that feeling again for a long time by playing new MMO's.

I honestly don't see how you can say that statement just by that video. How does it look like an actual world? All i gathered from the video is really cool graphics. 

Maybe not an actual world and not only really cool graphics but NEW stuff as in actual upgrades and additions to content that will actually get people to keep playing or come back to playing the game. Maybe its because you don't play the game that you don't see the potential for the major improvements of several mechanics in the game and are therefore not excited.

This is either going to have to come out after or before Blade and Soul and Guild Wars 2 or else NCsoft will trip all over itself.

Originally posted by tman5

There are three schools in the Trekverse. There are the Roddenberry Trekkies, the Berman Trekkies and the Abrams Trekkies (I reject the term "Trekker" as pretentious and pointless).  Each subsequent interation stripped more of the classic thoughtful Roddenberry elements from Trek until today, under Abrams' reign, Trek is little more than any generic sci fi with lasers space show.

A Roddenberry Star Trek game would be a great challenge to develop, perhaps impossible.   Yet, as a solid Roddenberry Trekkie, this is what I expect when you claim a Star Trek MMO:  Balance of Terror.  Miri.  Operation Annihilate.  Tapestry.  The Measure of a Man.

Berman and Abrams?  Pew pew.  Explosions.  Repeat.  Next.   This game sounds like it will cater to the Berman or Abrams Trekkie just fine.  I truly hope you enjoy it.

I think good'ol  Roddy had alot less to work with when it came to effects so he built Star Trek with a little less pew pew and a bit more words and more exploration but there was pew pew when there needed to be, Berman and Abrams had a bit more in terms of tech and effects so they could create a more pew pew atmosphere for Trek. Roddenberry is a man and as a man if he lived to this day and age he'd add more pew pew to his stories because thats what he'd like to see.....after a few well placed dialogue leading upto it anyways.

NCsoft just ripped ideas right out of my head, seriously I have just one feature left and I'm feeling like it may not make it because someone else will tap into my hemisphere of imagination.

That Aion vid just learnt ALOT from what both Guild Wars and Blade & Soul are doing. Blade & Soul's combat system, Guild Wars 2 underwater exploration (not sure which other game out there does this but feel free to tell me), Blade & Soul's weather and effects system (which is pretty darn good) and Guild Wars-esque pet capture. They've definitely learnt from their own franchises and are going to be releasing alot of epic stuff within the next 2 years which is pretty commendable considering what they've been through. I guess when you keep trying, you're bound to get one right......or two (GW2).....or three(Blade & Soul (Aion with bigger boobies ^^)) in NCsoft's case anyways.

Originally posted by CraziFuzzy

Nah, Dominion certainyl isn't and EPIC fail... though it's a lot less WIN than it's initial introduction.  Keep in mind, the proposed changes that affect the MAJORITY of people in game, are still in there, and have not been 'dumbed down' by the noisy minority.  Some key features that will improve Eve on the whole:

1. New Mail System (Date Sorting!)
2. New Planets (prepping for Dust-514)
3. Fleet Improvements (Fleet Finder, Loot Management, Wreck Abandonment)
4. In-game-Browser Improvements (Will continue to become even more EPIC as 3rd party site devs tweak on it)
5. The seeds being planted for New Eden (formerly COSMOS)

All-in-all, I'm pretty excited about these changes.  They will have more impact on the majority than Apocrypha did.

1. New Planets are also in preparation for Planetary interaction (the next expansion.... CAN. NOT. WAIT)

2. Impact on the majority than apocrypha did? Not in my point of view anyway, apocrypha brought life back into eve if you ask me, dominion does nothing for the masses, everything is for the 0.0 residents and since I don't live there (I LIVE EVERYWHERE) I can't say it helps me in anyway or anyone who doesn't exactly know about it. The new features will only be mild distractions and will not add new stuff to the market or new ways to make money, just new ways to gain sov. Planetary interaction is the expansion to look forward to (for the majority anyway).

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by DanaDark

Tanking doesn't require anything actually. It is a term to describe a very generalized purpose of simply taking excessive damage, moreso than others around you. You attatch excessive meanings to descriptions that are not actually there.

One needs a method to ensure that you are taking more damage than those around you.  Or rather, to ensure you are being fired at more.  In STO it looks like this will be magically extending shields that cover the rest of the group.  With a system like this you then need something to make sure the tank survives, so one tosses in the magic healer.   If a healer wasn't needed in a tank situation like this, then the content is a joke if one ship can take the damage of all enemy vessels and survive.
 

Note, in a MMO a "tank" has high defenses because you are making all enemies attack you.  In real life things with high defenses DO NOT have them because they want the enemy to attack them.  They have high defenses because anything with a lot of firepower that is going to attack the enemy needs high defenses in case it is attacked, but they certainly don't want to be attacked.  The other option is to be very hard to find or get (artillery and submarines follow this strategy).

Anyhow, I think this thread has reached the point where nothing productive is going to be said.  If you guys can admit that the Devs talking about how they have a Tank, Healer, and DPS means they are using the traditional MMO combat system, when those terms, especially used together, only make sense in a traditional MMO system, then there's not much more to be said. Especially silly since Cryptic's games have all used this system.  The only comment you guys have from the Devs that goes against this is ONE quote from ONE source, that is MONTHS old and has never been repeated -- that's pretty weak.

Btw, you never respond to my statements along this line, but I'll say it again:  Combat systems require tweaking and lots of balancing.  Something besides the traditional MMO system would require a lot of work to balance and wouldn't fit into the traditional groups of healer, dps, and tank (just look at Battletech, Eve, Guild Wars, real life history, etc and you'll see those concepts for units simply don't exist).  To make an alternative system that is used in the SAME game as one utilizing healers, tanks, and dps would be even trickier to balance, since now you also have to balance the two systems against each other and make sure there aren't any ways to exploit the two by having some sort of hybrid that is overpowered.  There's no evidence they've done any of this, there's no talk of another system.  Combat systems don't magically spring out of thin air balanced and fun to play; it TAKES WORK, and they'd certainly talk about it because of that massive effort they put into it.

Anyhow, I'm content to wait until Open Beta starts and you guys get proven wrong.

COX, I believe you had play the game and pick healing powers to actually be able to heal your allies and a tank could easily pick the power to heal.

I don't see anything wrong with the system, only a few people do and it really doesn't matter because the second video clearly describes a way for you to do more of DPS or support or tanking or speed with every and any ship. If I didn't know any better I'd say the system explained is very much like the way Eve ships work ...and I don't.

I agree with you that combat systems take time to balance and the combination of two different systems may lead to something being overpowered, taking Eve for example and what veterans know as the nano nerf; minmatar (a faction in the game) ships are known for their agility, now combine that with kickass skills in navigation and tech 2 microwarp drives and you got yourself "THE FLASH" IN SPACE and if you look at Star Trek you can see almost the same thing happening especially when your skills play a part, your crew's skills play a part, your equipment plays a part and the route to which energy goes also plays a part which means there will definitely be an unbalance which then identifies the fact that there are waaaay more complex systems involved in the combat/assembly of ships rather than just healer tank dps. Like someone said before, Cryptic is not know for great communication heh.

Originally posted by tyanya

The most remarkable thing about CO is how wholly unremarkable it is..... I don't know what went wrong but the experience and evident technical skills Cryptic must possess seem to have had no positive benefit to this title, it repeats many mistakes of much older games, adds many of its own, brings nothing fresh or original to the table and really lacks any sense of its core theme. Even were it to target all of the features of this article it would still struggle to be average.

I'm gonna go ahead and blame good'ol Billy Roper. He is the lead game designer right?

Originally posted by Kyleran

You don't really make big money in wormholes unless you live in them at a POS, so find yourself a good WH corp and join their operation.  Regarding entry, I've never gone through 0.0 to gain entry to our hole, however sometimes I  have to go through a few hops of low sec and 2 or 3 WH's to get there.  Once in a great while we get a direct exit from our hole into empire. (we usually close them quickly to prevent raiders from showing up)

Yes, you can get in many 0.0 corps with about 5M SP's and Caldari ships are great for ratting so no problem on that score.  Everyone in 0.0 loves Caldari for ewar/ECM and many a Raven pilot have successfully hunted in 0.0.

Never really looked for cargo containers when probing, but if they can be found it would be with combat probes.

Be warned, we view anyone using combat probes in our WH as a hostile act and we will kill you without pause if we catch you.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHA...... i can solo a class 5 and I do it from hi-sec, yea... didn't expect that did ya? The tougher wormholes come out more in low to null sec but you can find them in hi-sec (you can't find class 4's in hisec). If you want to learn the art of soloing.... you can't learn the art because......... ITS ALL MINE HAHAHAHAHA.

TO THE OP- I make 200mil weekly, yes you can make more from doing lvl4s and salvaging that biache but that gets boring (although I do it on and off). I also produce T3 ships with 140mil profit margins, I play the market every sunday after a week's worth of killing and looting and that profit varies depending on how stupid some capsuleers are. Anyway the point I'm making here is there are many ways you can make money, don't pigeon hole yourself into doing one thing and believing the T2 BPO holders make all the isk, if you capitalise on every new expansion you WILL make all the isk... just look at me I kinda got bored when I basically killed wormholing..... it was fun doing it though heheheh.

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Zeroxin

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Blurr

Originally posted by Zeroxin

http://www.massively.com/2009/11/20/star-trek-online-ship-tactics-part-2/

Round 2?

 

Haha, yeah. One of the things I take away from that article is that Power Management will definately play a signifigant role. It sounds to me like if you want to DPS you can just put all power to weaopns, or if you're getting hit and want to absorb damage, you just pump power to shields.

Perhaps that makes the idea of cruiser-tank, escort-dps obsolete. Maybe taking a ship with bonuses to damage over bonuses to defense is just a personal preference. Perhaps whoever's taking the most damage at the time simply becomes "the tank" and puts power to shields until he can get away. For all we know, the enemies could just target whoever's doing the most damage to them at the time, and people take turns being tanks. Maybe then the only difference in choice of ship is you pick cruiser if you want a longer tank turn, haha. Maybe a cruiser with all power to weapons does enough damage to be signifigant.

STO certainly wouldn't be the first game to do it that way.

They've said Cruisers shield other ships.  Like I've said, I suspect healing/tanking is an issue of the deflector dish (right dish lets you shield friendlies, another dish lets you heal friendlies).  Might be wrong there, but it doesn't matter so much.
 

They've said that Science Vessels do less damage.  They certainly have fewer weapon slots and less power than Cruisers.  I'm not seeing how you could make one into a ship capable of dealing good damage.

If a Cruiser with all power to the weapons is as good as a Escort...why bother with an escort, since the Cruiser is tougher?  A fleet of Cruisers and one healer are then going to be able to last a LOT longer than 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 escorts.  (Unless the better power, better shields, more damage reducing mod slots, more engineering personal, and more crew somehow don't matter at all...at which point do any of these modifications make a different at ALL?)  If the ship you choose doesn't really matter, then why split ships up into different Holy Trinity roles like that?  Why bother having different officer allotments, if it doesn't really matter?  Why bother having different mod slot allotments if it doesn't really matter?  That said, I repeat that the Science Vessels doesn't seem capable of dealing good damage (or tank as well as cruisers for that matter).

Anyhow, I actually addressed a lot of this in my post above.

 

 Gonna just quickly ignore the 8 pages that have been made cos I have qualms with your post. Look at it this way;  A cruiser with all power to guns is as good as a normal escort without power to guns just as an escort with all power to shields is as good as a cruiser without its power to shields or slightly better. In eve when a ship has great dmg bonuses I usually tank it as best I can and let the bonuses do the work and I think this is what STO may force us to do; guard the weaknesses of the ships whilst capitalizing on its strengths. You can't honestly think that a cruiser with all its power to guns will be able to out-dps an escort with all power to guns.

Why wouldn't the Escort have all power to its guns (or nearly all, some going to engines)?  It will have a cruiser nearby to extend shields and soak damage for it afterall.

  The Escort might being going solo, you never know.....

Originally posted by Drachasor

Originally posted by Blurr

Originally posted by Zeroxin

http://www.massively.com/2009/11/20/star-trek-online-ship-tactics-part-2/

Round 2?

 

Haha, yeah. One of the things I take away from that article is that Power Management will definately play a signifigant role. It sounds to me like if you want to DPS you can just put all power to weaopns, or if you're getting hit and want to absorb damage, you just pump power to shields.

Perhaps that makes the idea of cruiser-tank, escort-dps obsolete. Maybe taking a ship with bonuses to damage over bonuses to defense is just a personal preference. Perhaps whoever's taking the most damage at the time simply becomes "the tank" and puts power to shields until he can get away. For all we know, the enemies could just target whoever's doing the most damage to them at the time, and people take turns being tanks. Maybe then the only difference in choice of ship is you pick cruiser if you want a longer tank turn, haha. Maybe a cruiser with all power to weapons does enough damage to be signifigant.

STO certainly wouldn't be the first game to do it that way.

They've said Cruisers shield other ships.  Like I've said, I suspect healing/tanking is an issue of the deflector dish (right dish lets you shield friendlies, another dish lets you heal friendlies).  Might be wrong there, but it doesn't matter so much.
 

They've said that Science Vessels do less damage.  They certainly have fewer weapon slots and less power than Cruisers.  I'm not seeing how you could make one into a ship capable of dealing good damage.

If a Cruiser with all power to the weapons is as good as a Escort...why bother with an escort, since the Cruiser is tougher?  A fleet of Cruisers and one healer are then going to be able to last a LOT longer than 1 tank, 1 healer, and 3 escorts.  (Unless the better power, better shields, more damage reducing mod slots, more engineering personal, and more crew somehow don't matter at all...at which point do any of these modifications make a different at ALL?)  If the ship you choose doesn't really matter, then why split ships up into different Holy Trinity roles like that?  Why bother having different officer allotments, if it doesn't really matter?  Why bother having different mod slot allotments if it doesn't really matter?  That said, I repeat that the Science Vessels doesn't seem capable of dealing good damage (or tank as well as cruisers for that matter).

Anyhow, I actually addressed a lot of this in my post above.

  Gonna just quickly ignore the 8 pages that have been made cos I have qualms with your post. Look at it this way;  A cruiser with all power to guns is as good as a normal escort without power to guns just as an escort with all power to shields is as good as a cruiser without its power to shields or slightly better. In eve when a ship has great dmg bonuses I usually tank it as best I can and let the bonuses do the work and I think this is what STO may force us to do; guard the weaknesses of the ships whilst capitalizing on its strengths. You can't honestly think that a cruiser with all its power to guns will be able to out-dps an escort with all power to guns.

Originally posted by peanut2007uk

My mate started playing the game a few weeks ago and as a huge MMO fan i decided to see what all the fuss was about... so i got a trial and downloaded it ect only to be disapointed in the very poor game set up and how easy it was to complete missions in plenty of time... is it me or does any1 else find this very boring and drole?

All you gotta do is click the mission to set a waypoint and the ship does the rest then you pick the item up or drop it off and then head back if this is what the game is all about then it truly is one boring game for hmm how do i say this... amature MMO players.

I found the game lacking and after i completed the trial i was left baffeled as to how easy and boring the game was...if you ask me this game is very overated only thing they got right on this game is the graphics witch is questionable,

Not even the combat is hard...sigh maybe next time EVE maybe...

Hahaha... you only played the beginning and did only missions and you expect to get anything from the game? They call it a sandbox for a reason you know?

http://www.massively.com/2009/11/20/star-trek-online-ship-tactics-part-2/

Round 2?

AAaaaAAaaaaaaaaaaiiiiooooooooonnnnn!! Prappapaa Prappapaa Praa Pararapaaa!

Most people are playing Aion, some people are playing the new content in Champions, some are waiting for STO and SWTOR.

I'm playing Aion, Champions and Eve online.....and L4D2.....and Borderlands....