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All Posts by niceguy3978

All Posts by niceguy3978

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1891 posts found
I actually thought the original announcement was an April fools joke (it was announced on April 1st).  
Originally posted by Fishheadman

Thanks for writing this article still waiting on the Full Re-Review of MH 2015 that MMORPG.com said they would do (in an email response to me) but take your time it is fine. If you contact Gazillion I am sure they would give you a list of additions / improvements since release.

 

One thing to note is that Team Ups will have some sort of hot key to allow you more control of where they go and what they attack. So if it works out well it will not be so much you moving around just to save your Team Up but it will add some meta game for those that want to really push the limits and usefulness of the Team Up and give them more of a tactical element.

 

They did a re-review on July 9, 2014.  Right at a year after their initial review of the game.  They don't generally review games every year, so I wouldn't expect a third review for a while

Originally posted by Maik36
Originally posted by Golarum
Originally posted by Maik36

Marvel Heroes, and one of the worst MMOs released this year, ESO, are #1 and 2? All credibility for this website has been lost. Give credit where it is due. FFXIV has released more content over the last year than any of those MMOs combined. It has also managed to keep from going to F2P or B2P over a year after being re-released. FFXIV changed everything you ever thought about failed MMOs - it went from being one of the worst MMOs in history, to having over 2.5 million paying subscribers. FFXIV will go down in history as the only MMO that managed to do that. Instead you all are praising games on their last leg, that will be forgotten in a year's time.

 

All this is, is a popularity contest. This website has never been a supporter of FFXIV and it never will. It's so sad.

 
 

I feel like you are giving a little too much praise to FFXIV, I play it, and I enjoy it, but it did not bring more content (fixing the game is not new content) than any other mmo out there in the last year, actually, it barely brought any content compared to some of the other AA titles. And I do give credit to Square for being able to release the game, but at the same time, we can look at it in another way, I bought the first release of the game, and I felt scammed, so to me, it was Square's responsibility to do something about that. The first version of the game was probably one of the worst releases of an mmorpg ever. The game is ok, but it is not amazing, I play it casually because when I invest a few hours in it, I get bored of the constant empty grind to lvl other classes. To call FFXIV one of the greats, Square still has a long way to go. As I said, I enjoy it, but I feel that you think too highly of the game, you can say that you, personally find it to be the best, but you cannot say that it is better than other games.

Perhaps I am biased towards my favorite MMO atm, but so is everyone else here. As far as what you said about the content updates for FFXIV over the last year, you're wrong in saying that all those updates did was continue to fix the game. Every patch after 2.0 came with new content and those content patches have been coming out every 3-4 months. And over a year later, FFXIV is thriving with tons of new content, and a considerable number of paying subscribers. A future that was once bleak, is now shining brightly.

 

People are praising Marvel Heroes because it fixed the problems it had at launch and is now in a good place, but the changes made to FFXIV far exceed those made to Marvel Heroes. As I said before in my previous post, what Square Enix did with FFXIV was a game changer - they made it possible for a AAA MMO title to go from complete failure to worldwide success. No MMO in history has ever done that. All Marvel Heroes did was secure its F2P status, while FFXIV went from dead to having over 2.5 mil paying subscribers.

How many MMOs over the last few years have actually managed to do that? None. They have all either gone F2P or B2P.

 

According to Square Enix, they have roughly 1 million subs for their 3 games combined.  But other than that, I agree, it went from a very bad place to a very respectable place which is unusual these days.  Though I would argue that EvE did it as well, it was just much longer ago.

Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by niceguy3978

Originally posted by Foomerang  

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Foomerang Maybe the point isn't to try and get people from your MMOs community to come over and vote it up. But what do I know, heh.
I'm pretty sure that is exactly the point of these voting contests: to get more people to traffic the site and hope to increase daily hits. It's not a bad thing. If they only wanted to get a count of the regular forum members they could program in constraints like account age, last visit date, minimum number of posts, or my favorite - minimum number of stars. :D
You're most likely correct. But it is fun to see unfold Hehe   Like I said, Pirate 101 all over again. That was popcorn worthy, this is getting there :)
There are 4 options that I can see as to why this happens (or at least 4 that readily pop into my mind, I'm sure there are more).  

 

1.  For whatever reason fans of the most talked about games on this site are less likely to vote.

2.  Fans of the most talked about games on this site do vote, but Marvel Heroes got its community to disproportionately swarm this site.

3.  A mixture of one and two where the most talked about games aren't necessarily the most liked, and one of the least popular (by unique hits on this site) is more liked, but not talked about.

4.  A combination of 1 and 2 but with lots of duplicate accounts, with the assumption being that for whatever reason MH players are more untrustworthy than the community of the other games on the list.

 

One, two and three are fine, but if 4 is the case then that is problematic as it breaks the rules and spirit of voting.  Also, if that is the argument one wants to make, it also implies that the MH community is more untrustworthy than the other games communities.  As I said, I'm sure that there are other reasons why this could be the way it is, but they are eluding me.



There is a good possibility it is 4 just by looking at all the one post accounts. They all have similar grammar, sentence structure, wording and are all about two sentences. Or that's just my wild imagination at work again Hehe

 

Honestly, I think it has much more to do with 2 mainly because of the very high level of interaction between the dev team and community.  They keep a running track of the most recent dev posts at the top of the forum page and the dev team is constantly talking to the community.  Not just the community manager, but the dev leads for content, artwork, etc.  I haven't seen a game of this size do that.  It is usually the indy mmo's with very small teams that communicate this way.  I think this leads to a community willing to vote.  I could be wrong though, and the MH community may just be unethical.  Who knows?

Originally posted by Foomerang

 


Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Foomerang Maybe the point isn't to try and get people from your MMOs community to come over and vote it up. But what do I know, heh.
I'm pretty sure that is exactly the point of these voting contests: to get more people to traffic the site and hope to increase daily hits. It's not a bad thing. If they only wanted to get a count of the regular forum members they could program in constraints like account age, last visit date, minimum number of posts, or my favorite - minimum number of stars. :D

You're most likely correct. But it is fun to see unfold Hehe

 

Like I said, Pirate 101 all over again. That was popcorn worthy, this is getting there :)

There are 4 options that I can see as to why this happens (or at least 4 that readily pop into my mind, I'm sure there are more).  

1.  For whatever reason fans of the most talked about games on this site are less likely to vote.

2.  Fans of the most talked about games on this site do vote, but Marvel Heroes got its community to disproportionately swarm this site.

3.  A mixture of one and two where the most talked about games aren't necessarily the most liked, and one of the least popular (by unique hits on this site) is more liked, but not talked about.

4.  A combination of 1 and 2 but with lots of duplicate accounts, with the assumption being that for whatever reason MH players are more untrustworthy than the community of the other games on the list.

 

One, two and three are fine, but if 4 is the case then that is problematic as it breaks the rules and spirit of voting.  Also, if that is the argument one wants to make, it also implies that the MH community is more untrustworthy than the other games communities.  As I said, I'm sure that there are other reasons why this could be the way it is, but they are eluding me.

Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Jeger_Wulf
Originally posted by Iselin

If the MH fans want to come here and vote up their game, more power to them. But it cracks me up that they're coming here to do it since if you look at the list of most popular games (based on unique hits) on the front page of this site, it has never cracked the top 10...  not today, nor this week, nor this month, nor in the past 6 months, nor past year. 

Speaking for myself, I come here a few times a week to catch up on general MMO news. However, when I want to read about Marvel Heroes, I go to their boards, which are extremely active and informative. When I am on this site, I probably never click on a Marvel Heroes link or post.

I'm sure the official boards for all MMOs are extremely active and more informative than this site.

 

But we're talking about a poll that supposedly represents the opinions of those who come here... You don't see the humor in a game that not many people here show interest in getting 4 times as many votes as its closest competitor when all of the other 8 choices ARE in the top 10 according to the metrics that measure what the people here are interested in?

 

That sure is one hell of a lot of closet MH lovers.... or something.

I'm not super active on these forums, but I do have my share of posts, but I don't generally post or even look at specific game forums on this site, I usually come here for the general mmo discussions.  I'm sure there are plenty of people from all the games on the list that only every come and vote in the polls or made an account specifically for this poll.  I think it says as much about the mmorpg community that not one of the most popular games on the site seems to be able to break 20%.

And yet a quick look at your user profile shows me that you have contributed to unique hits for ESO, Shroud of the Avatar, WOW and Darkfall: UW recently :)

 

I mean... nice attempt at coming up with a plausible explanation for MH, all of a sudden in the past 24 hours rocketing past everything else by that margin,  but I don't think apathy from the real mmorpg.com community is it.

 

I'm still betting on the "or something"

That is my point though, I don't overly like any of those games, I just bought ESO, so I don't like it yet, but I am interested in it.  I really like MH and as you note, it isn't on my unique hit list, but it is the game I voted for.

Yeah. MH is not  bad game at all and I'm sure there are some legitimate votes for it from people who are part of this community... but 51% vs. 8% for GW2 and FFXIV? Sure... want to buy a bridge I have for sale?

I don't think we are really making different arguments.   I agree that the MH community has pretty much flooded the voting, that is obvious.  I think that the fact that the most played games can't crack 15% is the very definition of apathy.

Given that MH is @ 51 and there are 8 other titles there, 6% would be the average. Take MH out of the equation and you'd have several over 15%... see how that works? 

Yes, but I guess I don't see what you are trying to say with all this.  It goes back to what is the "or something?"  Why can't any of those other games that have large communities get their fans to vote?  If apathy isn't the answer, what is?

Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Jeger_Wulf
Originally posted by Iselin

If the MH fans want to come here and vote up their game, more power to them. But it cracks me up that they're coming here to do it since if you look at the list of most popular games (based on unique hits) on the front page of this site, it has never cracked the top 10...  not today, nor this week, nor this month, nor in the past 6 months, nor past year. 

Speaking for myself, I come here a few times a week to catch up on general MMO news. However, when I want to read about Marvel Heroes, I go to their boards, which are extremely active and informative. When I am on this site, I probably never click on a Marvel Heroes link or post.

I'm sure the official boards for all MMOs are extremely active and more informative than this site.

 

But we're talking about a poll that supposedly represents the opinions of those who come here... You don't see the humor in a game that not many people here show interest in getting 4 times as many votes as its closest competitor when all of the other 8 choices ARE in the top 10 according to the metrics that measure what the people here are interested in?

 

That sure is one hell of a lot of closet MH lovers.... or something.

I'm not super active on these forums, but I do have my share of posts, but I don't generally post or even look at specific game forums on this site, I usually come here for the general mmo discussions.  I'm sure there are plenty of people from all the games on the list that only every come and vote in the polls or made an account specifically for this poll.  I think it says as much about the mmorpg community that not one of the most popular games on the site seems to be able to break 20%.

And yet a quick look at your user profile shows me that you have contributed to unique hits for ESO, Shroud of the Avatar, WOW and Darkfall: UW recently :)

 

I mean... nice attempt at coming up with a plausible explanation for MH, all of a sudden in the past 24 hours rocketing past everything else by that margin,  but I don't think apathy from the real mmorpg.com community is it.

 

I'm still betting on the "or something"

That is my point though, I don't overly like any of those games, I just bought ESO, so I don't like it yet, but I am interested in it.  I really like MH and as you note, it isn't on my unique hit list, but it is the game I voted for.

Yeah. MH is not  bad game at all and I'm sure there are some legitimate votes for it from people who are part of this community... but 51% vs. 8% for GW2 and FFXIV? Sure... want to buy a bridge I have for sale?

I don't think we are really making different arguments.   I agree that the MH community has pretty much flooded the voting, that is obvious.  I think that the fact that the most played games can't crack 15% is the very definition of apathy.

Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by niceguy3978
Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Jeger_Wulf
Originally posted by Iselin

If the MH fans want to come here and vote up their game, more power to them. But it cracks me up that they're coming here to do it since if you look at the list of most popular games (based on unique hits) on the front page of this site, it has never cracked the top 10...  not today, nor this week, nor this month, nor in the past 6 months, nor past year. 

Speaking for myself, I come here a few times a week to catch up on general MMO news. However, when I want to read about Marvel Heroes, I go to their boards, which are extremely active and informative. When I am on this site, I probably never click on a Marvel Heroes link or post.

I'm sure the official boards for all MMOs are extremely active and more informative than this site.

 

But we're talking about a poll that supposedly represents the opinions of those who come here... You don't see the humor in a game that not many people here show interest in getting 4 times as many votes as its closest competitor when all of the other 8 choices ARE in the top 10 according to the metrics that measure what the people here are interested in?

 

That sure is one hell of a lot of closet MH lovers.... or something.

I'm not super active on these forums, but I do have my share of posts, but I don't generally post or even look at specific game forums on this site, I usually come here for the general mmo discussions.  I'm sure there are plenty of people from all the games on the list that only every come and vote in the polls or made an account specifically for this poll.  I think it says as much about the mmorpg community that not one of the most popular games on the site seems to be able to break 20%.

And yet a quick look at your user profile shows me that you have contributed to unique hits for ESO, Shroud of the Avatar, WOW and Darkfall: UW recently :)

 

I mean... nice attempt at coming up with a plausible explanation for MH, all of a sudden in the past 24 hours rocketing past everything else by that margin,  but I don't think apathy from the real mmorpg.com community is it.

 

I'm still betting on the "or something"

That is my point though, I don't overly like any of those games, I just bought ESO, so I don't like it yet, but I am interested in it.  I really like MH and as you note, it isn't on my unique hit list, but it is the game I voted for.

Originally posted by Iselin
Originally posted by Jeger_Wulf
Originally posted by Iselin

If the MH fans want to come here and vote up their game, more power to them. But it cracks me up that they're coming here to do it since if you look at the list of most popular games (based on unique hits) on the front page of this site, it has never cracked the top 10...  not today, nor this week, nor this month, nor in the past 6 months, nor past year. 

Speaking for myself, I come here a few times a week to catch up on general MMO news. However, when I want to read about Marvel Heroes, I go to their boards, which are extremely active and informative. When I am on this site, I probably never click on a Marvel Heroes link or post.

I'm sure the official boards for all MMOs are extremely active and more informative than this site.

 

But we're talking about a poll that supposedly represents the opinions of those who come here... You don't see the humor in a game that not many people here show interest in getting 4 times as many votes as its closest competitor when all of the other 8 choices ARE in the top 10 according to the metrics that measure what the people here are interested in?

 

That sure is one hell of a lot of closet MH lovers.... or something.

I'm not super active on these forums, but I do have my share of posts, but I don't generally post or even look at specific game forums on this site, I usually come here for the general mmo discussions.  I'm sure there are plenty of people from all the games on the list that only every come and vote in the polls or made an account specifically for this poll.  I think it says as much about the mmorpg community that not one of the most popular games on the site seems to be able to break 20%.

Edit:  One other thing to keep in mind, popular to talk about/discuss/bash, doesn't necessarily mean the game is popular as far as people enjoy playing it.  When it comes to this site, I don't think 80% (yes a very made up number) like any current mmo, but they sure like to come and talk about them.

Originally posted by MotownMurder
Originally posted by dreamscaper

Marvel Heroes being in this list is a joke. The fact that it's somehow winning currently is a bigger one. Did they post this on their launcher or something?

 

It's a cheap Diablo clone with a Marvel-hero skin and has no business being on this list when actual MMORPGs like Eve Online are left off.

Not quite on their launcher, but it's on the top of their forum, which is apparently good enough.

 

I personally find it funny that basically everyone here in the comments talking up Marvel Heroes is just a guy that came from that website to vote. I did too, but still.

I post around here semi-regularly, though I don't tend to talk up any particular game.  I do play and enjoy Marvel Heroes more than any other mmo right now.  I don't play any single-player games anymore so I didn't vote for RPG of the year.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle
Originally posted by Gdemami

$ 13.95

http://us.gamesrocket.com/download/The-Elder-Scrolls-Online-Win-Mac.html?currency=USD

Have you bought from them before? Are they safe????

I just bought it from there for 12.49.  They sent the code and I set up an account on the eso site and everything went well.  I did it through paypal so that I didn't have to put in my own cc.  But I'm downloading the game now with my 30 days.

Originally posted by superconducting
Originally posted by TheGoblinKing

Yes it is P2W. It's pretty straightforward you pay money, you have an advantage, which they do.

thank you! finally somebody who sees the light :D

If this is the definition of P2W, then every game that has ever had a paid expansion of any kind is P2W, at least if it offers pvp servers or an open pvp area.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/sony-begins-free-games-compensation-over-2011-psn-/1100-6424840/

Gamespot article about it.  Key bits:

 

Individual compensation will vary depending in part on what type of account(s) you had at the time. Some of the options, per Sony's official descriptions, include:

  • Payment equal to paid wallet balances (if $2 or more) in PSN or SOE accounts that have been inactive since the intrusions.
  • One or more of the following: a free PS3 or PSP game, three free PS3 themes, or a free three-month subscription to PlayStation Plus (once valid claims exceed $10 million, class members will still be eligible for one free month of PlayStation Plus).
  • A free month of Music Unlimited for Qriocity account holders who did not have a PSN account.
  • $4.50 in SOE Station Cash (amounts will be reduced proportionally if valid claims exceed $4 million).
Originally posted by Torvaldr
This is a total scam. You don't get virtual currency with no real world value from a lawsuit settlement. Good grief.

No, it isn't a scam.  It is from the hack back in 2011, and essentially, if you had a SOE account with at least 2.00 worth of their currency (200sc) and you never logged into the account again, you can get 2.00 (yay big spending sony) or if you still play you can get 450sc.  If you had a PSN account, you can either get a free game (you can choose from 10 or so different games) or you can get 3 months of PS+.  This has been reported all over the place with news articles all linking to the same place.  Now, some people may also be getting phishing attempts based on this, but the settlement is real and 450sc is an option.

Originally posted by Aragon100
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Thebeasttt
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Thebeasttt
Carebear is not even an insult, let alone a ban worthy one unless you have the thinnest skin ever which I suspect is most of this threads problem.

Except the red highlighted bit, assuming that indeed does come from the OP, is a pretty hostile post. Regardless of whether you can understand that or not.

Calling the devs amateurs (whether it's true or not) indicating that they tricked players with a wow clone (which I have yet really to see in the game) and essentially the entire thing is a belittlement of the devs and its players.

And it's under the guise of "telling the truth" which is really just code word for "this is my opinion but it is weightier than anyone else's opinion".

You might not care about the word "fanbois" but it is a word that is meant to be derogatory. forums are not meant to be a test of how thick one's skin is. They are meant to be a discussion, and "yes" a marketing tool for people's games.

If people want to "tell the truth" they can get their own forums and go to town and make up their own rules. Perfectly acceptable.

 

 

So your argument is anything that could possibly be an insult to anybody is ban worthy? We mine as well not post on any forum in that case. There are always delicate flowers to be overly offended at virtually any comment(usually female).

 

It's true they are free to over-moderate their forum however they wish just like I'm free to criticize them for it. But let me be the first to tell all of you: Grow some thicker skin or gtfo the internet. Seriously

No that isn't my argument. My argument is anything that is hostile is "hostile".

hostile: unfriendly; antagonistic

One can argue a point and not be hostile. One can proclaim a game to be full of mistakes and not be hostile.

Name calling is hostile. You might not have any problem with it but that's not the issue. You are not the decider. And if you want to participate then you have to either agree to the rules (whether you like them or not) and play nice or take your toys and go elsewhere.

Telling people they are amateurs isn't going to get you anywhere. Maybe saying that you ": don't feel they have enough experience and therefore you are concerned about the results" might just feel a tad less "attacking". Obviously one can pick words that feel more genuine to the speaker but still not be "hostile".

People dont' like to get attacked. I also find that people are much more open to criticism when the critic is understanding of where they are coming from but offers ideas that might lead to better results in a way that is conversational and not construed as ranting.

And maybe it's you that needs to grow the thicker skin? I mean this is obviously offensive to you and yet your argument comes across as highly defensive and derogatory.

Look at your above post, you immediately construe any idea not congrent to the devs as an insult when it doesn't have to be.

You insult women (and where the heck did that come from?)

and anyone not agreeing with you needs to grow a thicker skin. because in no way could you be wrong.

 

I could just as easily say to you "grow a thicker skin because it seems that their are people who don't agree with your premise". But that's ridiculous.

In the end it's their forums. And they get to say what they want, moderate as they want, and ban as they want. You want to participate? Play nice or don't play at all.

That goes for all of us. That's just life.

 

So again please inform me and others in what way did i break the developers rules AFTER they set the rules over at steam?

I was banned after i ended using "that" word and instead called them trammies. Is trammies also a word not to be used?

If so where do you think this will stop? What words is ok to use and what words should never be written?

As i see it, SotA steam forum and the original SotA forums is both being over moderated in such an extent that it in itself remove alot of constructive discussion.

Could you possibly describe what you don't like about your game of choice to your girlfriends parents or your parents?   If you cant say it to your parents or future in-laws, you shouldn't say it.

 

Originally posted by Aragon100

Sad to see how developers ban players on steam even though they have adapted to the rules demanded.

Dont use the "carebear" word so lets play along. Check i wont and didnt.

So after adapting to the rules demanded by developers i get a message that say "

You have been banned from all Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues discussions until 23 Dec @ 4:26pm.

You were banned by a Shroud of the Avatar: Forsaken Virtues developer.

Reason: "You are being needlessly confrontational and hostile to other users. You have received more complaints than all other users combined. Consider this your first warning. If we have to ban you again it will be permanent."

And no example whatsoever of this hostility and confrontational behaviour was given as an example. They ban if they dont like what you write.

This is very much as it was on the SotA forums, if you dont become a fanbois and instead express concerns and deliver critic towards the game then you might get banned for no reason. Developers will seek out a special reason just for you.

Don't be mad.  Be proud.  More complaints than all other users combined?  That is impressive!

It will be interesting to see the reaction from some on these forums.  There will be those who will label it as making wow free-to-play, and there will be others who say it will be pay-to-win.  Either way, much frothing to ensue.
Originally posted by Tamanous
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by Lobotomist
Originally posted by MMOExposed

How long does it usually take on avg for an Indie dev to make a decent MMO?

I know AAA developers on avg take 5 years to make a MMO, but what about indies?

thoughts?

Never

There is not a single MMO released by an indie dev. (Although many have tried)

And I mean MMO of relevant scope. Few web games or small "sandbox" projects.

Closest thing to Indie MMO was Darkfall , but even that was well funded studio. And it took them a lot lot of time.

This ^

In order to have an average you need to have multiple successful outcomes. So far we don't have any.

Furthermore the criteria of 'decent' MMO is extremely vague. There are a lot of aspects of the average MMO we take for granted that won't exist without proper funding. The few indie devs we've seen attempt an MMO have failed miserably, but it's only a matter of time until one is successful.

That said, If I had to make an estimate, I'd say a modest MMO (limited-no quests, feature list that isn't overly complicated, limited voice acting / art assets) could be done in 5-7yrs by an indie dev. However, whether or not that qualifies as 'decent' is another matter.

Nearly every single first gen mmorpg came from an indie dev.

 

There are several being developed right now. Wait and see how long they take and the quality upon release. 1-2 years and a few will be here.

Turbine was and Indie developer with Asheron's Call, mayber Meridian 59 too?  I'm not sure about that one, but the two most popular EQ and UO were both backed by major development companies EA owned Origin from the time work began on UO and EQ development started under Sony before they spun the online division off into Verant.  It isn't really clear how indie Mythic was when they were making DAOC. 

I'm not sure how to feel about the fact that I knew who the OP was just from the title.  Forum PVP at its best (or worst).
Originally posted by Kopogero

OP, if you want to see actual data best source is to see active servers on that particular game. I doubt WOW has even 500k subs that are paying $15 a month and sure this community can hammer me for that, but go to realm status and you'll see the actual population for Europe and America. Then deduct a lot who are on "trial" accounts...but yea most MMO's today are mediocre at best, thus it's hard to find them release actually info.

If I choose to pay a sub WOW would be a no brainer, otherwise go with the many other F2P alternative multiplayer games you have available in 2014.

If 3.3 million people bought the xpac, then your numbers suggest that 2.8 million people bought the xpac and aren't playing it.  

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