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All Posts by SBE1

All Posts by SBE1

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253 posts found

1186

Originally posted by dankid

^^^@SBE1

 

Have you played the game?  Heres the deal, and most people that are not fanbois will agree.  The game was great for what content was there.  PvP mechanics and gameplay were bugged and lackluster from the beginning, but there was enough content for a casual gamer to have a tremendous amount of fun for about 2-4 weeks.  After tha point, the game was uterlly useless. 

 

They claimed this game was an "mmorpg" but in fact it was not.  It lacked the 'depth' as most threads quickly found to be considered an mmorpg.  It should have been a console game with no subscription and thats that.

 

Thus most people played the game like a console game.  They played through the story, completed some achievements, played a little bit of PvP, and then set the game down to never look at it again.

 That's exactly my point.  The MMORPG staff reviewed the game as if it was a console game, not as an MMO with depth and longevity.  I pointed this out when the final review came in that the review was unacceptable as an MMO game because it failed to discuss the lack of content, chat, UI as very major drawbacks to making it an "MMO" instead of a single-player console game.  Since this website is called "MMORPG", I would have assumed the staff would review the game as an MMO, not as a console game.  Unfortunately, they decided in their wisdom to just give it a great review because it was a fun console game.  That is what I didn't understand and complained when I saw the review.   If this was a 1-time purchase with no subscription fee, then fine. However, there is no way they can justify a monthly fee because it simply isn't "MMO" enough in my opinion.

Generally speaking, console games tend to have more action-oriented and more entertaining gameplay, but you can burn through them rather quickly. MMO games generally sacrafice some of that for extensive content and long-term playability.  Clearly the ideal is that you can get both, but DCUO isn't there.  This is just a console game that at the end they decided to try to get people to pay a monthly fee.  Seeing the population decline dramatically therefore should have been no surprise, despite the glowing reviews from this website.

As an Economics guru, let me first say that everything in life has opportunity costs, since it is impossible to do everything all at the same time. Every decision in life is an opportunity cost.  So telling me that a game is full of opportunity costs really doesn't mean a hill of beans, but you might convince yourself you sound really smart.

Obviously, where the big issue lies in MMO games is that time invested in the MMO greatly improves your success in the MMO, however you define success (killing mosters better, killing players better, having the shinest gear, whatever). It's a classic leftover from table-top RPGs where you go out, get experience/treasure from doing something, which allows your character to advance. Since it takes time to get this experience/treasure, time invested becomes a function of your player's abilities and future success.  It is not a first person shooter where everyone resets at the beginning of each match. 

Now, you have to add in to the mix that in some MMO games, the "fun" experience tends to be the endgame, but reaching the end-game can take a long time.  Some people then decide to pay others to skip this experience using real cash (involking the opportunity costs of grinding on a game versus paying someone to do it for you while you do something else), while others believe this is a form of cheating. The debate will probably never be settled, but I personally believe it revolves around that crazy word known as "FAIR", which losely defined is "you have more than me and I want some."  People with lots of real life cash and less time want to buy their way past the boring part of a game, while those with lots of time but less real life cash want everyone to suffer through the game like they did, calling anyone who skips a portion of the game a cheater or a skillless noob. Since the majority of game players probably are in school (and thus more time than money), I'm not surprised to see so many people complain about leveling services. I've used a leveling service in AION and found it worked well.

On the other hand, an MMO game could be a lot of fun during the leveling experience, but a total drag at the end-game.  In this situation everyone is leveling up or making alts, but then they complain about the game and quit after going through the content several times.  DCUO is a good example of this.

Some MMOs try to skip the leveling/grind all together, but those games haven't done well as people generally like being invested in their own characters.

The "holy grail" of MMO games is one that offers just as much fun leveling up and grinding as it does in the endgame. 

Another "way back" article.  Things are slow in the current MMO world.

Laugh, they are down to just 2 servers now?   I can't remember exactly how many they had at the beginning, but I am sure it was more than 20.  Heck, they had 4 servers just dedicated to the RP community. 

Rather than fix the flaws, they just do server mergers.  I guess it's cheaper than doing the things to fix the game and class imbalances.

That's a solid list of epic failures in MMO production.  G Godager at Funcom (Failcom) was pretty sweet when he kept talking about the PvP aspects and DX10 of the game, and then launches the game without DX10 (despite being on the box) and very poor PvP.  He then said he was surprised people wanted a lot of PvP in Age of Conan.   What a dope.   The good news is I shorted Funcom stock after playing AoC for a few days, realizing it was an epic failure.

As for Jacobs, he got RvR/PvP right with DAOC using 3 sides and having specific zones for consentual, meaningful PvP.  He failed in delivering on class balance.  All that was supposed to change in WAR, where he promissed that he had much more tools and information to balance classes prior to game launch.  Whoops, I guess everyone telling him a Bright Wizard was overpowered just kept getting ignored, and he ignored the benefits of having a 3-sided RvR game and went the lazy 2-faction route.  Both of these errors (and many others) led to servers closing within the first few months of the game.

The benefits of these 2 developers have shown others is that 1) don't make stupid promises about a game and PvP that you have no intention of fullfilling at launch, 2) make sure you have at least 3 sides for PvP (most games keep going the 2-faction route for some reason) and 3) class balance is so important that you are better off just having the same classes available in each faction rather than relying on tools and databases to balance unique classes.

So, I'd be waiting for a DAOC clone where the 3-faction classes were identical (except looks). 

I'm tired of MMOs with PvP focus where there are only 2 player-driven factions.  I swear every time I see a 2-player faction PvP game I know that the population is going to decline dramatically six months after launch, because the losing side quits, and then the winning side gets bored and quits.   Making a third faction NPC based does not solve the problem.

I know this isn't a problem with WoW, but I wouldn't consider WoW a PvP focused game.

Another thing that drives me nuts about these previews/Beta are that they spend 90% of the the time in starter zones or low-level content.  When you make a PvP game, 90% of the live-game time is spent at max level doing PvP.  How in the world can you do an adequate preview of a game when all you see is the starting area and a few scenarios?  While i think the starting area is interesting, I probably spent about 10 minutes of in-game time in the starting area, and hundreds of hours in open RvR.  Simply put, MMORPG previews and quick reviews of PvP focused MMOs are pretty much pointless unless there is something broken in the game.

642

What I find funny is that the game supposedly changes at level 50 and the focus becomes PvP and that part isn't part of Beta.  Since PvP is where I'd be spending the vast majority of my time, I want to make sure that part works and is fun.  It remindes me too much of AoC, where everyone in Beta could test the early levels and found the game great, but no one could test the seige action.  Funcom repeatedly said seiges were working fine, PvP was all done, etc. and yet when we got to that part of the game it wasn't done, implemented correctly, and was a total garbage experience.  So, I went through all the pain of leveling in that game just to find the endgame a joke.

Because of AoC, I don't bother with Beta events unless they start concentrating on end-game PvP content.  Alpha testers be damned.  Without a solid Beta test by many independent players, PvP cannot be properly tested.  So, I'll sit this game out and in a few months come back and read about the PvP aspects, how they had to nerf 2-3 soul combinations to oblivion because they were overpowered, and people spending time leveling those sould combinations will be screwed and unhappy. 

So, in conclusion, I'd like to thank all those who purchase this game and then go beta test the PvP for me while I have fun doing something else. Once the PvP bugs/imbalances get ironed out and many soul combinations get nerfed, I'll then decide if it's worth my time to buy the game (which will probably be on discount by then).

I stopped reading when it starts off "I don't like to PvP" and then realized it was an article on PvP. Perhaps next we can have people who hate PvE write a long article on the PvE aspects of XYZ game.

The problem with the "preview" was that Jon started off by admiting he had not spent much time in the game and yet wrote the preview for MMORGP.com, which they published.  It was like saying "Hi, I didn't do my job adequately but here it is anyway because I'm expected to write this regardless of how much time I've played the game."   Also note that there is no commentary about the crafting system, which is very important to many players.  Did Jon even test out the crafting (many complained it was too bland).

There were several shortcomings in WAR that should have been pointed out right away to anyone spending only a short period of time in the game.  First, the fact that many people (not me, but many in my guild) reported configuration problems and constant crashing with the game. Perhaps Jon didn't crash, but so many people were crashing it should have been mentioned. Second, an PvP focused game with just 2 sides is destined to have problems because losers quit, and the winners get bored and quit.  Anyone could have seen this coming; Mythic promissed to address it in pre-launch interviews and never did anything for the first year of release after most servers were closed. Third was grossly imbalanced classes, particularly the Bright Wizard and group healing classes (the group heals were better than the single-heals, making them 1 button pressing class).  This should have been mentioned in the preview.  Other website previews I remember commenting specifically about the Bright Wizard overpowered abilities. 

Look, I liked the game and played long enough to have to transfer 3 times because of server closings, but those glaring problems I knew were going to eventually kill the game. All Mythic/EA did was fire the producer and gloss over the problems with more PvE content.

There are 2 types of end-games, and they rarely succeed if they cross.  First is gear-based raiding PvE endgames to get new weapons/abilities. There are plenty of these kinds of games out there. The other is PvP endgames, where the success rate of games has been mixed at best.

In my opinion, the best PvP focused end-game MMO had to be the original Dark Age of Camelot (DAOC).  The end-game of PvP had something for goal-based people in the grind of higher realm points for additional abilities. It had balance because there were 3 realms, almost ensuring that no one realm could dominate a server.  It had consequences because holding enemy relics had benefits, and taking the keeps made leveling easier and taking the relics easier.

The primary problem of the DAOC end-game was lack of class balance (3 realms of unique classes to each made it nearly impossible) combined with the developer's desire to add a gigantic gear-grind end-game component (Trials of Atlantis) on top of the existing PvP end-game grind.  This led to the mass exodus (combined with WOW) of the game and why today it is down to just 1 server (although very popular free-shards exist to put the game back to where it was prior to these changes).

What I believe many PvP players desire in an end-game is to take what DAOC used to have (3 realm combat for balance plus meaningful consequences for PvP activity for the entire realm) and put on top of that extensive class balance by having roughtly the same classes in each of the three realms.  Combined with only a modest gear grind, I believe the game would be very successful in the end-game.  Finally, I think players would like a change of scenery (after a while playing in the same setting gets boring), so the developers could rotate out the scenery/zones every few months to keep strategies fresh. 

The concern I have on current MMO PvP end-games is that they tend to be 2-faction games (and one side that losses gives up, and the winners are bored and they give up, and servers consolidate, and repeat the process just like Warhammer) or they tend to be free-for-all PvP (Darkfall, Shadowbane) that I believe is a relatively small niche of the market. 

Recently developers have been doing 2-faction games with a third NPC faction for balance (AION for example).  This doesn't work because fighting NPCs simply doesn't motivate the PvP crowd, even in a PvP zone.

Because a balanced 3-faction meaningful PvP is always unpredictable, the amount of content update required by a developer would be relatively modest because players would make the content exciting. Like I said, the only real content would be probably a change of scenery every so often and only a modest gear-grind. 

What I don't get is how the designers can make combat  fun (good points for that), recreate the DC universe/setting, and screw up on the MMO basics like chat and UI can targeting. 

MMO games are not new, and yet it amazes me that some of the basics of MMOs seem to be missing.   I'm going out on a limb here and I'm going to assume that the developers actually do know how to code MMO-like chat and UI, but didn't because this was originally a single-person console game that was converted to an MMO very quickly at the end.

If this was a single-person console game and had an expected play-life of 40-60 hours, 2 thumbs up.  As an MMO, where I generally think the play-life is more like 400-600 hours (or more) and chat/UI is so messed up (especially for PC), then I don't think it's meets those qualifications UNLESS SOE provides a lot of updates. 

What I don't understand is that the reviewers/editors seem to think this game is a console game and keep commenting about the console and combat areas (which are quite good), and not reviewing it as an MMO. 

Almost all MMOs have some type of problem at launch, and this game is no different, but the strange thing is that the problems seem so basic to MMO games.  I personally think the only way to review this game is to see what type of updates are provided every month. Unless they are something amazing, I would expect a significant drop off in population.

The review clearly states that if it was a single-player game or didn't require a monthly subscritption it would have gotten a higher score.  But, an MMO needs "glue" or "social system" and "lots of end-game content" to make it work.  DCUO just doesn't have it.  It might later on, but that just means it was probably released too soon (a common problem).

Well, first of all this reads like "I want to give this game a really high score so please fix these few things ASAP" kind of article.  Seems biased, but whatever. 

I think this is the first MMO game where chat is a huge problem.  Seriously?  How long has the MMO world been around and companies can't get the chat right?  This to me seems like it was made as a single-player console game and suddenly they got this strange idea to make it a MMO game somewhere late in the process.  Furthermore, with such fast leveling (solo, no less) you really have to believe that SOE will deliver meaningful monthly content.  That's a big leap of faith.  Furthermore, wont that monthly content just keep accumulating?  If so, wouldn't it be much better to just wait and subscribe 6 months from now so that you can go through all the content in about 1 month and see if you want to continue?  Why subscribe now when in a week you can max level? 

While I don't play World of Warcraft, hating the fact that it is the #1 subscription MMO game by far is simply dumb.  Why do you hate that a successful game/company has remained #1?  

I'm going to hope for the best and assume you meant to say that you hate the fact that no other company has created an MMO that was good enough to beat a game that has been out for 5+ years.  Darkfall, AION, AoC, WAR, etc. have come and mostly gone (in terms of subscribers).  How many MMO games have been released since WoW that were incomplete at release? How many MMO games have been released since WoW that had serious computer compatibility issues? 

This world (and this website) needs to stop hating success and start celebrating it.  I'm impressed and happy for Blizzard for providing a product that so many people are willing to pay $15 a month to play. Putting WoW as one of the worst facts of 2010 because it is successful is an insult to the MMO world and customers who obviously think it is the best MMO game.

Well, I have 2 issues with this 6-hour preview write-up.

"PvP wasn't something we were able to play, but there was discussion on how this will play out. Battles will take place in “warzones” with up to 8v8 set-ups, and instead of traditional PvP elements, players will be tasked with attacking or defending points on a map, or in the case of the Alderaan Warzone orient giant guns to take out enemy ships. "

Well, that's different from some --official-- posts that say that they will have open world PvP.  I wouldn't be surprised if they have given up on open world PvP.  If this game really limits PvP to just 8v8, then it really kills the replayability of the game.

My other issue is that of the group responses by random choice.  Seriously?  I think that sucks.  Sure, it might be fun for a guy with 6 hours to preview the game then walk away, but if you're building a light-side or dark-side character and other people in the group have different ideas, then you're screwed.  What will happen is people will be "LFG--dark side focused healer" or "LFG--light side focused tank" because now not only will you need a specific class, but a specific light or dark-side focus.  How many people really wont care that they get light/dark side points offsetting what they wanted?  Nobody.  It just makes it even harder to find random groups.

Oh well.  Also interesting how this game might be another year in the making according to the author (how did you get that conclusion?  He doesn't say).  Finally, I'm sick of seeing previews of games from level 1-10.  Almost all games, including hte really bad ones, had a decent preview for level 1-10. Age of Conan anyone?  Most developers get the first 25-50% of the game finished, and then they release the game and hope to make the end-game content up with future patches. 

What happens if you are relatively slow in leveling because you have a job/kids and all your friends/online threads tell you what the story is?   It would be like having people tell you about how the movie/book ends before you go see it/read it.  Same thing.   Takes the fun out of the game.

It's why the re-playability of KOTOR is so low, because you know the story plot inside and out.   Not sure how this game has many subscribers.    I believe people will buy it, go through it once/twice, then retire it.

1) Trials of Atlantis was the biggest mistake in the history of MMO expansions.  'Nuff said.  Developers said the players were to blame because they wanted more PvE content.  No, players wanted interesting PvE content, not mindless grinding content to get overpowered items.

2) Mythic's developers were absolutely clueless about PvP balancing for the first 2- years of the game.  I think after that they started getting a clue about how things worked.

3) How long did they allow Radar-users to play their game?  It was only after their billing server was shown to have security problems  (similar to how Radar worked) did it finally get corrected.  People who used radar were never punished and were given several warnings before getting banned (finally).

4)  Mythic had their chance at MMO and failed miserably with Warhammer.  How many servers did they have to close?  They also showed with Warhammer that they are still clueless about PvP balancing.  Bright wizards?  Seriously, what a joke.  But if you were to go back and read the pre-release interviews, they claimed to have PvP balancing down to a science with all their new tools.  Laugh.  They didn't even take the most core aspect that worked in DAOC, the 3-realm faction based fighting and went with the 2-realm faction, which probably was one of the biggest mistakes in making WAR. I believe they did this because that is how WoW is set up.

If WAR had been successful (and I'm saying its unsuccessful because of the # of servers that had to be closed within the first year), then perhaps the core Mythic/Mark Jacobs team would be charged with making the DAOC sequel. 

Of course, if you want to go back and play DAOC the way it used to be prior to ToA, all you have to do is use Google to find the information on how to do it.  Probably against the rules to post more than that.

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