I had this same discussion with someone from Mythic in this thread from July '06. RJCox used to be Richard from Mythic.

www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/837531#837531

Done. Have fun.

Received an extra beta acct, email says I can forward it to someone if I don't want it...so, first email gets it.

And. yes, I know there is only 1 week left.

Eve has 200,000 active subscribers...30,000 players online at the same time.

What's up with the MOB AI? Where's the challenge? I'm sick of this whole 'I'll just stand here and guard this blade of grass while you kill my friend" bullshit.

Because Mythic greatly values the input of people who don't play their games.

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Originally posted by Wagoner
Paul is hardly an executive transvestite.

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More like a middle-management transvestite.

Chilling with someone whose Xfire name is 'Go2hellbitch' might just be the challenge I have been looking for in a MMO.

For a video entitled "Voices of the Game" it seemed to be a little short on voices. "Posts of the Game" maybe.

Second Life Millionaire

http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2006/11/second_lifes_fi.html

Roma Victor is a RCESOAG (Real Cash Economy Sort Of Almost a Game).

It has crafting, but be warned, energy drinks will not be provided by Mythic.

I think the "It" he is referring to is his opportunity to play, not the demo.

I think we need to make a distinction between PvP and RvR.

In (DAOC)PvP you kill your enemy for Realm Points. More Realm Points means more abilities, better titles, more personal glory. It pretty much comes down to 'I killed for your Points'.

People think that RvR is just large scale PvP, but it isn't. While PvP is a battle for a better score, RvR is a battle for territory. Think of it as 'I killed you to occupy the space(territory) where your corpse now lies'.

In WAR this would become- 'I killed this Dwarf to occupy the space where his corpse now lies', 'to WE kill all of these Dwarves to occupy the space they controlled and if we kill even more dwarves we can control this Zone, and killing even more Dwarves allows us to control the Dwarven Capitol City for the sole purpose of annoying these Dwarves until their beards turn gray and we'll do the Happy Orc Dance for all of eternity'.

PvP is about your personal scorecard, RvR is about controlling territory. You can't emphasize both (DAOC tried and failed). Check the VN message board and count the number of 'Grats Player x for getting Realm Rank Y threads' then compare it to the number 'Grats Realm X for taking Keep Y threads'. Tons of the former, none of the latter.

Richard

Thanks for your response.

We have a form of Zone Control in DAOC presently, and while we don't have Capitol City seige, we have Keep and Relic Keep seige, and these aspects of RvR are largely ignored because that isn't the most effective way to get Realm Points. The Type-A personalities who at one time led Relic Raids now play 8-man because that is the most efficient way to increase their 'personal score' or epeen as Shayde calls it. The players have been given a choice to RvR or PvP and have overwhelmingly chosen to PvP or Group PvP. If you wanted to be overly dramatic you could say that RvR ended when the first toon got their first Realm Point.

I understand that WAR is a long way off, and balancing PvP and RvR are way down the to-do list, but is Mythic even aware that RvR in DAOC wasn't killed by bugs or game imbalances or whatever, but it was killed when the emphasis shifted from the 'big scoreboard' of the number of Relics and Keeps held by a Realm, to the Personal Scorekeeping (I'm reluctant to call it Player Individual Scoring System for some reason) made available later in the game.

I don't doubt that when WAR is released that Zone Control and Capitol City seige will be a large part of the early game, but what incentive will there be to keep the playerbase from picking a flat spot on the map (Emain) and simply playing to increase their Personal Score?

Second question- Mythic closed some of the Gear- and Abitlity-Gap with the release of the Classic server, has Mythic ever considered creating a No-Stat server to test whether players would RvR more in that environment?

Thanks for your time.

EDIT- By No-Stat server I mean a server where personal scores aren't logged, not a server where the players have 'no stats'.

When DAOC began there was no tracking of individual toon information, such as realm points, kills, IRS scores, etc. For a short time it truly was a RvR game. The only in-game distinction was thru your realm's accomplishments...'we have this many relics', 'we hold this many keeps'... All that changed over time with the ability to track how your toon did as an individual. Now people say 'I have this many RP', I have this many Solo Kills'.

So, my question is, how do you de-emphasize the player as an individual and emphasize the realm as a whole?

Mythic said you can PvP from the start, so who knows. You had just better hope those 20 newbies didn't get a quest to go kill 1 newbie from the other side.

The problem with your post is that you are comparing what WOW is today with what WAR will be 1-1.5 years from now (6 months after release). WOW could put out 1or 2 major expansions before WAR is released that fixes or improves their endgame/PVP problems. As for WOW losing 3 million subscribers because of WAR...I don''t see that happening. At this point I think the only thing that can kill WOW is WOW itself.

See ya in WAR.