I am still subbed to it and jump on occasionally to play.  Do not have the time for a guild so, PUGS are pretty much my bread and butter.

I agree it is the best of the PvE games out there. 

One of the things I did not like about the original JG was the factionless system that was in place.

It did lead to what most people liked about the game which was player driven content however, it also may the forumns a part of the game.  Nothing worse that jumping in game and finding your enemies were now your friends and your friends were now your enemies and you had no clue because you had not trolled the boards for the last few hours to understand this.

And the boards were just a big whine fest of finger pointing and lying and name calling that made me sick.  So, more power to ND!  I do not want to hear the endless whining or complaing from those non-octavians!

Your incessant posting and musing and drooling over this game has got my attention.

I just put in a pre-order for the game ( not the CE mind you ) and am looking forward to Sep30.  I never played FF XI so I have NO CLUE how this game is going to play other than listening to you guys on this forumn.

Well, I did poke around on their site today and review it.  I did see a lot of things that look interesting. 

So, that being said.  IT IS ALL YOUR FAULT I HAD TO PRE-ORDER THIS GAME!  And I will hold you all accountable.  :|

[Mod Edit]

I can see where your idea and mine can be combined into a working system.  Having the mobs tied into a nest like area or location.  If not addressed over a period of time, nest 1 grows into a nest 2.  A larger more involved nest that requires more to take it down.

Add into it that nest 2 spawns more nest 1 when it is updated to a nest 2.  Keep it going and you could end up having entire encapments or investations of varying mob sizes that can be cleared.

Also, add levels of nest sizes based on social aspects of the mobs and you can have a nest size up to 5 or 8 depending upon a social level you define with the mob.  EX: Rats would not get beyond a nest 1 whereas kobolds could get a nest 3 ( 1=warparty, 2=camp, 3= outpost), Orcs following the same, whereas a Goblin could go to a size 5 (1=warparty, 2=camp, 3=outpost, 4=Clan Center, 5=multi-clan town or gathering of sorts). 

All the while this would spread out from the very epicenter of the warparty encountered.  Each increment in the main "nest" also spawning another of the lower end "nests".

EX:

Warparty increase to camp = 2 Warparties ( obviously having a camp allows more patrols )

Camp increase to Outpost =  2 Camps and 4 war parties

Outost increase to Clan Center = 3 Outpost 6 camps 12 War parties

Clan Center increase to Multi-Clan Town = 4 clan centers 12 Outposts and 24 Warparties.

Thus you get a general idea ( not fully fleshed out ) on how a "nest" can increase the population of an area and express the infestation or over run of an area.  Can this be incremented to where each increment includes the 'sub-nests" in the expansion?  It could get messey but, it could be tried.

It has had one foot in the grave for a long time.  It is still a fun game to play for those looking for a good PvE game as an interim for something else.  There is a community there and it is a bit scattered. 

I will presonally keep this game as something to play until it either dies or I get hooked on something that can hold my attention for more than a month.  Until then and I continue to get a good PUG occasionally.  I will keep the sub.

DISCLAIMER:  I am a big fan of this style and this is based solely on my opinion and what I have garnered in reading various pros/cons on the issue.

PROBLEM --> CONTENT

For a crafter or social type of player the Sanbox style of game play is considered more entertaining.  In this type of environment the "Crafter" types generally go about their dayly hunting/gathering/crafting and enjoying the scenerey around them.  The social types love the RP aspect of doing their hunting and finding a quest or two about the lore of the land.  Building up their social love by housing decorations and making contacts with crafters to sell their gathered goods and make purchases.

For someone interested in combat or PvP there is rarely a carrot here for them to go after.  No save the princess or gain phat lewsz or kill all around you.  Please do not take this as an insult.  The most common complaints for non-social/crafters about the Sandbox games are there is nothing to do.

Some games have added themeparks which were areas that had some questing content in a linear fashion that pushed the player into either choosing a faction or going down one train of quests to some end result.  Being some great loot or tag or massive xp for doing it.  In watching these encounters or looking at the player experience of these themeparks developers ( both new and original developers of the game ) noticed that the themepark areas where where most of the players tended to gather in greater populations.

So, for those who favor the sandbox style of play, how do you combat the lack of entertainment for the large percentage of players who prefer a more structured game play?  EQ, WoW, and SWG all proved that the ThemePark games were more conducive to larger populations of players.  More players mean more revenue and regardless of your preference we all know that money is where the games will gravitate.  Essentially it is the path of least resistance for the developer mentality.

ONE IDEA

Have a game start out as a Sandbox game.  Something like UO or SWG or DF or MO or some other game of this caliber.  Not necessarily having PvP or maybe allowing concential PvP via contested areas in DAoC or through Guild determination.

Once the community is underway and the crafters have set up shop and a community has evolved.  Add a cataclism to the game or some form of free update that brings in a force that goes against the community.   This could be released in stages as an influx of something in the area.  If the response by the community is not consistant with removing the new antagonist ( either by design of the bad guy or lack of player response ) you can escalate the blight into more areas or add access to some new area ( such as the homeland of the blight or source of it ).

IMO, this could be done over and over and released as either mini-paks that people purchase ( for the non-crafter/social types ) or expansions to the game that come out periodically.  It could even start out as a main continent that players originally start out on and other areas are "Discovered and need to be conquered before colonization can begin".  If players move over en masse to the newer areas it could leave the older areas to be overrun by new mobs that require clearing out at a later date.   Essentially having the ruins of old player areas now becoming the new haven for things to inhabit.

With the data mining abilities that developers now have at their disposal, they could track player usage and locations.  Everyone knows n00b areas tend to become eghost towns after the population moves on to greener pastures. 

IN THEORY, you could have a number of 3-5 land masses that would cycle through player population - player abandonment - mob envasion - player population again.

Discuss.  I am sure there are other options people may have.

Seriously hate the fact that every couple of months some one gets busted thinking he is going to pick up on this gamer chick only to find out it is a guy in the RW. 

Then he gets all offended about guys playing chicks in games.  Now he wants to start some holier than thou conversation about why men need to play women in games.

It is a game.  When you stop using it is a troll booth to pick up chicks you will not care if the keyboard matches the screen.  The other person is there to play the game not act as a love interest.  Really need to get over it, go on with your life and enjoy the game and the comraderie.

Personally, I drop the mouse sensitivty down and I seem to play better.  Damn thing was waay to over sensitive in its default settings for me. 

Once I did this I did soooo much better on combat!

Great video.  ROFLMAO!!!!

I think they have good stories.  I am not so sure they would make good movies.  Now if you give it to another studio to take their story and make them INTO movies I think they would roawk!

Originally posted by cyphers

I can't speak for others, but what I really hate are the fanbois and haters and especially the really moronic arguments they tend to use that degenerates into half a flamewar what otherwise could have been a sensible discussion thread.

 

Then again, nothing new or unexpected to see.

Yeah, you know it is going to be the flame thread when you see the quote wars going on. 

Quotes of the quote to the quote of the quote with nice different colors of text.  Definately an indication that this discussion may be degenerating into an abyss of hype and gripe.

I would say it is

the most popular

the most played

the most accessible

the most talked about

the most criticized.

However, I think Best is subjective to the people who play it.  Some will say yes and others will say no.  I personally do not think it is  the best game out there.  It does not have features and things I like in games. 

Does that mean it is a bad game?  Obviously not. 

So, either quantify what you mean by BEST or expect there will be a 50 / 50 split or so on the responses.

HAHAHAHA

Please do not get me wrong, I am an avid fanboi of the pre-NGE SWG.

To say it had a choice is a bad analogy.  I had no choice on wether I wanted to play a Pistolleer AND a Bounty Hunter!  I had to play one or the other or some bastardized version of each.  Unless I wanted to not play with friends and play on a different server.

SWG only allowed one character per server.  If I wanted to try something else and play with friends I had to wipe out what I was doing and start over and HOPE it was not the SUK.

So there.  It can be had both ways.  Just because it was a system you liked and it allowed some mixing and matching of skills does not mean it was better.  It was fun, it was playable and it had bugs.  Did it need to go away?  No, just fix the issues and balance.  Probably something they would still be working on to this day with all of the QQ in games these days.

Originally posted by wardog250

Here we go with this again.  In most civilized cultures around the world, murdering millions of people for a personal agenda is considered evil.  You see the Sith believe in enslaving or killing anyone who stands in their path.  If that seems like "just another viewpoint", then you need some serious counseling sessions.  The Sith are evil, not just because they act like PMSing teenagers; but, because they will do anything to get what they want.  The Jedi on the other hand use a more passive philosphy, "Stop and think about the consequences before you commit to something".

Stop kidding yourself, the Sith are not some misunderstood off shoot of the Jedi, they are corrupted and twisted into evil incarnet by the negative energies they feed off of.  The more of the darkside you use, the more it twists your mind into chaos.  That's why the Jedi are trained to use their powers sparingly.

 While I agree with the most part of what you are saying.  I do not think the Jedi were trained to use their powers sparingly.  They were more trained to be in tune with the force.  To go with the flow and not try to control it as much as be one with the power.  Sith was more about controlling the force and bending it to their will. 

At least, that is how I see it.  Are their actions inherently evil?  I would tend to agree that their lack of respect regarding life as sacred would indicate that they can be defined as evil.  There is a saying though, the path to hell is lined with good intentions.

@cyphers

To play the sith side or dark side is both a chance to be evil and a chance to embrace what has been defined by others and the wiki and their base beliefs.

The one common thread through both sides is Light side is inherently good.  While the Dark side is inherently bad.  Not saying all of them are one way or the other but, the way they use the force tends to push them in one direction or the other.

The Dark side is seductive because of the power it allows is seductive.  Which leads to a corruption of the one using the darker forms of the force.  

This was what was portrayed in the movies to allow redemption of those who were corrupted by the Dark Side of the force.  However, for story purposes and this game we are set in a world where the 2 sides are represented in different societies.  You can play a Sith that is honorable and does not engage in wanton destruction because there is no challenge.  Or you can play a Sith whose view is anyone not in line with him is weak and does not deserve to survive if they can be killed.  It allows for both views.

On the Light side there are always shades of gray where logic is in play without emotion.  While you may not have the wonton killing for no reason, it might be justified if you feel there is no redemption for the wicked.  A Paladin will fight against evil but not necessarily klill it for the potential that the wicked can be converted or repent.  A Cavelier believes the only good evil is a dead evil.

I guess what I am saying is there will be light side or logic side with some emotion and Dark side or emothional side with some logic.  This allows for more wiggle room in how a character responds without having to CHOOSE to switch sides.  In this time line switching sides is something that only happens in rare occasions.  Making for specific icons or NPC's that do it to justify some story.  As a whole tho, BW can keep this ability from the players through the back ground that keeps it from being abused into a min/max of abilities rather than game play.

Essentially, you need to keep the game fun without allowing the abuse of changing paths for powers and game play only and not supported by any lore of sorts.  IMO this will keep the DRIZZT types from basically overrunning the game.

When and why did the end game of an MMO become so important?

I always thought that the MMORPG was a living breathing world that would expand to add further content and adventure to players.  When did we start looking for the end of the game and complaining that it was not there or not worthy of ourr time?

I always thought the end game was something that you could never achieve ( in theory ) in an MMO because once you maxed out the level there would be another expansion come along in which you could take your character on to the next adventure.  So far I am seeing games that are coming out that really have no future or do not expect to move on.  WAR being a prime example, lets all bash our brains in on the way up to play the game at the end?

I just do not get it.  I also do not get those who complain about it or just work their way to it as fast as possible.  If the end game sux then the game sux because it should not have ended!!!  There will always be those who can play more than others and reach this level sooner but, if the whole populous does it ( CO ) then there is an issue with the original content or game play, not the end game!!!

IMO, these are not SPG.  They should not END with a need to go and kill the big boss man with some of your friends.  Especially not need a good 150 of your friends to do this either.

IMO, the end game should be a slight wait for the next release or next expansion to be purchased and played.  These expansions should come out in less time than it takes 40% of the population in game to reach max level.

TBH,  My first female character was in UO.  Because a female player in my guild was talking about how guys were always hitting on her in game.

I started a female toon so I could run around and say "d00d!  I am a guy, you are hitting on a guy in a game!!!  WTF? You think all female toons are women? Stop harrassing women in game and let them play!"

Personally I have always taken the light side as less of balance and more of logic.  It is a case of logic versus emotion.  Balance was something the Jedi were never for.  Otherwise they would have seen the Sith as the balance of the Jedi and therefore not tried to wipe them out.

However, in the movies the logic being the light side of the force and emotions being the dark side of the force makes for an interesting story in an of itself.  What are they trying to say here?

That love leads to suffering, suffering leads to anger, and anger leads to the Dark side?  Interesting concept, if you think about it.

I think the purpose of removing the emotion from the power was to keep ambition out of the equasion.  The Force is a powerfull thing that gives the Force Sensitive person the ability to control, manipulate and lord over those who are not force sensitive. 

For the Jedi, they determined that using the power to control was where the force was seductive and degenerative to the person.  To give up the desire to control they gave up control to the Federation of Planets.  Allowing themselves to become an Arm of the Judiciary branch of the Senate for investigation and policing.  Allowing them to keep their emotions in check and use the force as a tool and not as an augmentation to life.  Does not mean they are balanced, just means they are less apt to use the force for personal gain or to advance themselves in society.

Sith determined that control was a right.  They should control those who can be controlled.  This leads to an influx of back stabbing and schemes in which one is always trying to manipulate or control the other.  Thus lending themsleves to the mantras of not being able to survive infers they were not worthy of life to begin with.  To a Sith, going through life without using the Force is not living.  Does not mean they hate everything or are pure evil, just means they will use the full extent of the force they can to advance themselves in society.  In some cases, judiciously NOT using the force can also increment ones social standing.  So wantanly killing is one thing and making alliegences is another.

For me it depends upon the concept I have for the character.  Some concepts work better as females than others.  Like the people who play fighters that are gnomes or something.  change of pace.

I like to play fighters as female types.  I just find it fun that the person doing the tanking and taking the most damage is a female character that is smaller than most of the players who are in the group.   Either that or I have some Red Sonja concept going.  Or I might have just watched another Angelina Jolie movie.  All of which have strong female roles.  It is not always for the sex.

At least one time I know it was because I forgot to select one and it randomly came up female.  hehehe

I will not worry about end game until I get to the end of the game.  I am more worried about middle game.

Middle game is the issue with most of the games out there right now.  How can I worry about end game if the middle game is so attrocious I cannot make it through there???

Grinding out hours upon hours of conent, min/maxing skills, repeating hours of content to get the precise gear neaded to be able to get into the end game?

Not fun.  Not fun.  Not fun.

To me, end game should be concidered in the first expansion.  The game should focus on the journey from start to the upper levels.  THEN Bring in the expansion which adds elements to continue on with your character.

THERE SHOULD BE NO END GAME IN AN MMO.  Otherwise, why am I paying monthly for a living breathing world that has an end?  F that!.  I am paying monthly for a game that should not end.  It should continue on and expand on my experience.

Look at WAR.  It has spent so much time working on its end game that most players have left because the end game is just that.  The end of the game.  Now it is not an MMORPG it is an MMOARENA.