Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by Gabby-air

Lvl 14 as of right now and not really sold on the game. The game looks amazing and has one of the best worlds but its pretty standard fare. The combat isn't really all that great, can it be? Yes but its so damn easy and all the dodges and skills have a delay and can only be done while not moving which entirely breaks the pace up. Hell I just stand infront of all enemies and don't ever go under 80% health. The quests are your usuall stuff, kill this kill that but the stories are pretty bad...pacing needs work there. 

All it comes down to is, it's a next gen korean grinder. Was afraid that would be the case but honestly wasn't expecting it since they kept saying they're westernizing it...little girls and those pandas isn't the way to go then. 

^ pretty much this for me so far.. feels like a game perfectworld would release but with better production values

I disagree there. It feels more like WoW to me, than any korean MMO I've played thus far (other than Aion). Probably because they actually send you on quests and have a story, where as most of the "grind fests" I've played have mroe to do with finding a lot of enemies and killing them until you level up, with quests only serving to bring you from one area to another.

That's just me, though.

I haven't seent heir comments, but personally, I think it's fun. It's not terribly challenging at low levels because of the amount of health you have, that's for sure, but it's pretty fun. Having the roll out of the way of enemy attacks that can knock you down and looking for the signs that those attacks are coming is pretty entertaining. I've only played the melee combat, but it's pretty awesome when you're fighting a big boss, too, because you have to dodge and roll more often. I can't wait to get into group play.

That's just my opinion, though. I have no more validity in my statements than those other guys.

If you're really interested in trying it, just give it a go.

It's because box sales are only 8% of the PC market now and they don't want stores over-estimating the number of boxes they're going to sell. They don't want to spend extra money. With the budget they had for this, they are making every penny count.

Innovative games rarely do well because games that break ground rarely do it right the first time. This makes them high risk so they never get funded in the first place.

Innovative games are not seen in the AAA forum anymore. Look to indie games for innovation.

End of thread.

1.) Well there are a bunch of ways to do this, really. The first one and the way most MMOs today at least try to do it is to make your set pieces and enemies for the raid interesting, both visually and in terms of gameplay. Mixing up combat with puzzles or cutscenes with narrative really helps. WIthout any narrative the raid just becomes a long corridor that has items you need at the end of it with stuff put in the path to make it hard. Not terribly interesting.

Another way which is personal favorite, but is harder to rationalize in terms of lore or immersion is the randomization of the raid itself. As in the corridors/puzzles/locations of the bosses change every time you play it, so it's more interesting if you hae to do it more tha once and experiences vary.

2.) Well I don't really like hard-lined classes that much in my MMOs, personally, but if you did make classes, I would try to make as few classes as possible (maybe 4) and then make those classes very customizable. Not even neccesarily skill trees, but a list of skills that you could invest in that wouldn't necessarily buff each other. This is hard to explain...for example, there could be a lot lower level skills like a charged arrow shot or double arrow shot or someting like that that you could select once you level up. THen after selecting 2 skills or something like that, you would move on to the next teir of skills and select 2 from there and so on and so forth. The skills would get more powerful each time. Of course it would require balance, but each player would feel more like their character was their own and would really promote making more characters and playing through to the max level multiple times.

3.) Most economic systems in MMOs today are pretty standard. What I haven't seen, though, is a system that is actually like how money works in the real world. Where you gain money not from monsters and what not, but from people and trading. For example, you could have it that town/government officials only pay with money while the rest of NPCs pay with items, goods or services. And in the auction house, money could be used, but transactions with items could also be supported.

Just a thought. I'm not sure if it's actually a viable option. The goal is to make money more meaningful. When you can get so much of it from looting and quests, then it starts to lose it's value.

Of course it can. Anything can be a hit if it's released at the right time to the right audience.

You and I might scoff at these "lesser" low res 2-D games but quite honestly, we're not a majority of the population. And there have already been a lot of 2-D MMOs that are very popular. I remember when I was a freshman in highschool EVERYONE was playing maplestory. At least for a year or two maple story was making some serious money. And it's still very popular and fun.

It's just a matter of how well it's made and whether it's fun or not. It's all about the gameplay. :P

Ok, so, first you need to realize that rails =/= evil. Sometimes it's better to have a linear story than it is to have one that is completely open. It lets the developer control what you feel and when (which is especially good if they'rea good storyteller like bioware). This kind of experience als falls in more with the knights of the old republic games which this is going to be based. Also, "space ships on rails" if anything is a good things. Remember star fox 64? That was awesome. That was exactly what you're describing. 

I don't have time to comment on the other stuff right now. I'll come back later.

I think I took a few better examples. Not to say that you'res aren't nice either, but the raid window takes away from it  a bit.  Here:

I thank you for using some logic and not hating rift or trion because you don't like it. These qualities are hard to find on this site nowadays. I like rift, which is weird, cause I usually don't like theme parks usually. I think it's the rifts. They're fun. But anyway, this game succeeding certainly can't hurt the industry.

I was actually impressed by the character textures and shaders. On the armor and everything. Unless you're computer is running the game at the lowest settings, it should look fine. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Maybe if you went into a little more detail?

theescapistmagazine.com did an interview on it and they revealed some new info about the perma-death settler mmo.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/editorials/reviews/previews/8591-Preview-Watch-Your-Back-in-Salem

I'm not sure if this has been posted yet, but I haven't seen it and it sounds pretty damn interesting:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/01/20/paradox-announce-free-to-play-mmo-salem/

I think you should specify that it is completely about world of warcraft. I think you might want to post this in the WoW forum.

Originally posted by UnSub

Originally posted by maskedweasel

On a side note,  players keep saying how viable it would be to add crafting,  but in truth it really doesn't make much sense.  "I'm just going to farm these thugs here for their thug-shoes,  and then I'm going to craft me a pair of sneakers with + 5 defense."    Just doesn't make much sense.

I know that was one of the arguments SOE used - superheroes don't craft - but you can't use the "what happens in comics" argument on one aspect of the game and then ignore it for others, such as:

- superheroes don't build their costumes by beating people up and stealing their shoes; or

- Batman doesn't head to the GCPD after beating the Penguin to collect $47 in reward from Commissioner Gordon; or

- Robin doesn't steal $2 from a thug's wallet after defeating him so he can finance his hero activities.

DCUO is a game, and a MMO, so has to deal with different rules and expectations. Crafting is one of those things. It will probably come in with SOE saying how important crafting is to the entire superhero genre. :-)

Crafting wouldn't work with the game too well anyway. Maybe crafting costume pieces that would be mainly show and not really give any major stat bonus would be good.

But the combat is mainly about how you use your abilities, and less about the stats of your armor. Not only would it seem out of place, but it just wouldn't be nearly as fufilling (especially in this game) as you think it would be. You would be crafting pieces primarily for the look, because the stats are so minimally important.

This game is about looks and powers. Crafting items wouldn't really add anything to the game, and a feature like that added in this late would most likely be half-assed anyway.

I'm not sure how the game will do in the future. I hope, though, that it's a success. It's fun and very immersive if you're into the whole universe. I wasn't sure how I would like the whole "Fighting with heroes/villains" thing, but it turned out pretty nice in my opinion. If you don't like the combat, though, you won't like any of the rest for the game as most of the end game right now is PvP. Not all, though, and the legendaries that are there are very fun. There just aren't a ton of them.

Once more content is added to the end of the game, it will be even better.

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

Originally posted by Vexe

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

Originally posted by Vexe

 

 

TL;DR: Waffles are delicious and should always be served with warm maple syrup.

 

you must be from the firefall forums

Nope. Why?

Explain yourself, Vinterkrig.

http://www.firefallthegame.com/forums/showthread.php?3425-Waffle-Mustache-Delirium-Game-Mode!

Hoorah! Things to reference in future posts!

Originally posted by Athcear

Maybe shallow isn't the right word.  Maybe straightforward is.  But either way, it is kinda shallow.  But it's still fun.

The thing is, it's depth really depends on how you want to play it. If you're going to make a bunch of different characters and explore all the different combos and really try to fine tune your hero to some kind of PvP monster, then it is pretty deep (not INCREDIBLY so, but average at least). But if you're just going to play through it, beat all the content once and maybe make a second character, then, yes. It is pretty shallow.

But either way, kicking the crap out of these classic DC villains in these unique battles are kind of awesome as a fan.

I imagine there will be waves of people playing when new content come out. (like, now there is a surge, then it will die down, and then pick up again once new content is released)

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by Vexe

 

More abilities =/= more depth. A common opinion (not misconception; it can be true if done well) is that more abilities equal more combinations, that in turn equal more options; but that is not true.

---

 

I only played beta so I'm wondering...

 

Does the CE or regular copy come with a Lex Luthor Brainwashing Chip that puts this thought in people's heads when they open the box?

 

j/k ( a bit)

Ha, no, I'm only brain controlled by real super villains. But it should put that thought into their head. It's true. Sometimes limiting the options available to you is a way of giving more options.

If I have 32 powers to pick from, but only let you use for of them, you now have 32 powers and 128 different power combinations. I think anyway. I haven't had to use math in a while, so correct me if I'm wrong. 

But, having less total powers creates less options, too...so I guess it's only half true.

"More abilities =/= more depth. A common opinion (not misconception; it can be true if done well) is that more abilities equal more combinations, that in turn equal more options; but that is not the only way to garner more options."

Fixed?

Originally posted by Vinterkrig

Originally posted by Vexe

 

 

TL;DR: Waffles are delicious and should always be served with warm maple syrup.

 

you must be from the firefall forums

Nope. Why?

Explain yourself, Vinterkrig.

Originally posted by Zathoral

This game DEFINES shallow.

 

Leveling: You can hit max level in less than 24 hours time played.

Combat: Clearly designed for a controller with 10 buttons, you can only have 8 abilities equipped. (most mmos have at least 20-30 abilities per class) More abilities = more depth and requires more knowledge of your class and when to use certain abilities.

End game: Raiding, arenas, duos, legends... thats it. everything you do at end game is quened for... you could sit in the hall of doom/hero city and never have a reaosn to leave at level 30.

 

This game was clearly designed for casual console play not sure why they even released it for PC but im sure they made money off of it and its SOE so nothing new there.

I cannot begin to describe how wrong you are.

But I'll try my hardest.

First point:

What? Really? If so, tell me how. Not that levels really add depth anyway. Or the time it takes to reach that max level. It's how fun it is to get there, really. It could take you a year to get to level 300, but if it's not fun to get to the end who's going to play it anyway? Also, when you have that short leveling time, there starts to emerge a meta game, which is the best combo of powers for that max level. And with the sheer number of options you have for combinations of powers paths and different movement abilities, there are a lot of those.

Second point:

Two things to start off: More abilities =/= the number of abilities you have on screen. More abilities =/= more depth. A common opinion (not misconception; it can be true if done well) is that more abilities equal more combinations, that in turn equal more options; but that is not the only way to garner more options. Especially when all abilities are made available to you all the time. Making only 6 powers available to use is not shallow, it's brilliant. By limiting the number of abilities you can use, there are now different power sets and A LOT more ways to customize your character. It adds to that meta game I was talking about before. When you have all your powers available you simply react to what's happening and kind of lull through a battle. But with this limitation, you have to try to plan head and attempt to out-wit your opponent whether he be an NPC or PC. In battle, you will have to try to get out of situations you were not prepared for, and upon surviving, receive that "epic win" state of mind (this is a concept thrown around in my game design class, I won't get into it here, but you can PM me about it if you want). You need to anticipate and plan ahead, which builds a sense of community.

Third point:

There is not a large variety of end-game content at launch, no. I will give you that. But you don't necessarily need a GINORMOUS selection of things to do to keep playing the game. This is where that meta game plays in again. PvP is something that is completely different every time you play it. Because of all the heroes and their powers, you have to think on your feet constantly. This makes you want to (hopefully) roll different heroes because of your power selections will make the game new and interesting each time for PvP and the rest. This is the advantage they have with real-time powers. Maybe not so much on Legendaries though. But those are awesome for the comic fans like myself, and I think that's what they were designed for.

This game was not specifically made for casual console gamers. It is, though, made with console players in mind. They try to split the line between casual and hardcore, making it easier for people to just jump in, but making a certain level of skill involved as well. I think they succeed in this. The ability to quickly create an awesome custom character with new abilities is really a very large positive for this game. Over the next year or longer, when more content is added, it will only do the game more good.

You need to accept the game for what it is.

If you don't like how it plays now, you probably never will and should just find another game.

Also, I think you're confusing "depth" with "time sink".

TL;DR: Waffles are delicious and should always be served with warm maple syrup.

Edit: fixed a conceptual error in the beginning of the second point.