As long as the option exists for me to pay a monthly sub and get everything for the sub then thats fine by me.

As long as the option exists , that people not commited to the game can be excluded from my screen or party even better. If this is pay to win , or indirect F2P model this will sadly be yet another one for the bin.

People will always pay for a decent game , sadly cheap internet and free game access is providing a pool of seriously limited people , thank god lots of decent tactical RPGs are starting to be remade so that some of us will at least have a few decent games to play that requires more than one brain cell.

I love the elder scrolls franchise sadly , no more if we can't have a level playing field.

Originally posted by kaltahn

Originally posted by KingofHartz
Sounds tame enough to give it a look even though the pricing spoils the game somewhat. Whatever happened to just good old buy the game and play it

Some people got sick of paying for promises that some of the game companies couldn't keep.

It was messy.  

There were no survivors.

What happened is that companies worked a way to extract even more out of people. You now indirectly end up paying more for less.

Originally posted by Yizle
I recently came back and grabbed the last xpac. A lot has changed. As for those whining this is not 1st ed. That game is long gone. This is a MMO computer game and changes/deviations have to be made for it to continue.

Strange none of the earlier editions have gone, they all still exist and are all very playable,  it just takes a good DM..... and some imagination.

DDO is what it is and a playable computer game at that with a good group you can have fun but it is not PnP (Wow shock horror)

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by Harpy_Lady
I don't understand the appeal of raiding. It's mind-numbingly boring. I, for one, would love to see an interesting alternative.

Developers have only been seeking good viable alternatives to "Raid or PvP" for sixteen years now.

Let us know when you come up with some.

The alternatives exist Developers are just ignoring them; Exponential Leveling Gameplay and Community are the answers. But sadly easy mode clone with no real depth seem to be all the rage for the dumbed down masses.

Originally posted by Baldzulu
I could not agree with you more. 

I'm your classic definition of a casual player and I'd love to see more game developers come up with better ideas for the "end game".

It is called real design , not lazy design .....

Until people accept that insta max level is not really practical , raiding will be in forever.

I believe most developers should work on charachter to max level in no less that 2-3 years, but for a game to last that long you need really well thought out games with depth and a lot more than just combat...

Developers need to accept that Insta Travel / Insta Sell / Insta Everything feature work against game content depth and community.

Originally posted by greenreen

It made me giggle a little to ponder. The question comes from a documentary I saw a few years ago that was based on storing the baby making fluid of men with higher IQs for women to choose from for conception purposes.

Going to make it simple. Just a poll so that comments can be at will to participate. It wouldn't mean that you are stupid if you vote no, at least I wouldn't think that of you. It could easily be changed to be - would you have to pass an MMO acronym test to enter but this version sounds more controversial and fun!

Disclaimer: I don't think IQ tests are indicative of all types of knowledge or guarantee a smarter person. A test I took once for IQ asked whose face was on a 50 cent piece. That is an age based bias for people that had that coin in regular circulation in their lifetime as an example (even though I knew the answer). Now to stop being serious, vote.

 

 

Have to laugh at the Disclaimer ; Worried you will get flamed for an opinion I guess.

I disagree with your disclaimer; Certain types of people soak up knowledge and information like you would not believe. And would know the answer just like you did.

I would prefer to game with a similar demografic, the biggest issue I have these days is the fact that because its so cheap to play these games you get the masses and pond life in the mix. At least in the good old days it was idiots who actually worked for a living !!

Originally posted by Fusion

Originally posted by MumboJumbo

The more a Kickstarter project asks for (1m$) - the more it needs to show off what it already has done.

According to that line, you shouldnt've pledged, since they've really done NOTHING, but a small tech demo (on a licensed engine...)

I definitely would not pledge for such projects, when they've really nothing to show, but an IP and ideas.

 I personally am not fond of these kickstarter things and "pre-purchase" things.. i pay when i see it.

 

 

I f I took your approach in life, I would have never acheived anything; But at least you have an approach.

I invest in these projects because the concepts are great and so are Paizo. The Pathfinder content you get pays for the donation so its a win win. If tyhey deliver or not the concepts and game development direction is important here.

Well I want to see decent gameplay and games which for me means thet anything with gamesystems AC1 and previous hit the mark. So for me it is more contributing to developing the games i like if they deliver or not doesnt really matter as long as the genre is moving in the right direction.

With Pathfinder, all the extras pretty much make it a no brainer and value for money.

I see VGGamer saying he can't understand pledges being so high, so let me explain in 1990 I was a poor young gamer with an excess of great games to play.

Now these days I am a rich old gamer with lots of money but absolutely nothing that is challenging to play, that has longevity and community so I contribute even if it is just a concept. Because I can.

"Rich in my view means i have more money than i need not vast ammounts "

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Icewhite

I wonder, if it only takes 7, 10, 15 years to burn a player out to the point where he gives up on MMOs and begins chanting doom...

...how many years until he tires of chanting doom and finds another hobby?

LOL ...

That is the other thing that mysterifies me. If people don't like MMOs, why do they come here? It is not like there is a lack of other things to do.

 

They like MMO's just not the diatribe served up these days that are not MMO's. That is the answer to your question, it is not as simple as saying if people don't like MMOs and thats just half the problem.

Originally posted by Dewm

Originally posted by Arglebargle

Disdena brings up a number of good points. 

 

The OP mentions playing the old school games for 5-8 hours at a pop.   Game developers have realized that a lot of people who might otherwise play (and buy) their games, can't do this with any regularity.  I think the OP underestimates the amount of money that would need to be spent to 'modernize' the old school game;  art, animation, coding, etc;  that has to be paid for, usually upfront, and a resonable return on investment has to be there.   As Disdena points out, many of these games had serious problems.   Bad launches, poor coding, giant chunks that worked poorly or not at all, now substandard art or animation.  Is it 'higher expectations' to want a return to THAT?  SWG had character classes that never worked right.   UO had continual, massive changes, because things didn't work the way the developers intended.  And that was not due to them wanting UO to be a WoW-clone.

 

The proposed game has to bring in a profit for the people making it.  Until it can be shown there's a real market, all you'll see is small, independant companies doing these types of games, usually with attendant serious issues.   

 

We are not disagreeing here, I do admit most people don't have 5-8hrs to play, (I don't anymore) And I know it would take a fair amount of money to "modernize" older MMO's.. 

But the point of my OP was, expectations have not risen. if anything we expect less from games.

 

In the old days, we expected player housing

we expected in-depth crafting

we expected a good varity of classes

we expected a large world

 

....now days the newer games rarely have any of those features, and if they do its touted as some great accomplishment, some feet that was really difficult, that no game has ever done before.

 

look at the hype around Archeage... looks to be a awesome game. but does it really have anything that EQ didn't have? 

Great post by the OP and this just about sums it up ; The diatribe delivered these days under the umbrella of "MMO" is laughable.

The Quality/Depth of Gameplay just don't exist anymore... It is all so easy with Auto everything.

Seems most here have no argument even though they are trying, Very good post ...

"Game Developers have realised they can make more money , producing trash games a sad state of affairs..."

Originally posted by Kyleran

No, it's not you, newer MMO's today largely follow one main design path, and if you don't care for it you're pretty much out of luck.

But that said, there seems to be some bright spots on the horizon, so keep your eyes open and perhaps one day one of these titles will really suprise and please us.

 

 

Bright spots for sure......

Originally posted by Convo

 

There is nothing misguided about what I'm saying.  What we have is a disagreement on what this company is actually capable of and in my opinion how honest they are really being about what they promise..  I would call you misguided for drinking that kool aid..  Tell me..Where are they?  What proof have they shown you to actually back up what you are saying?  All we see is bad graphics...That's not misinformation.. What they created the most amazing engine and tools but they are not going to sell it like the Hero Engine, they are just going to hold onto it and ask for donations to fund the game since the investors they showed it to must not of been too impressed...I mean if the engine was really that amazing don't you think that would get their attention?  They are making some pretty incredible claims here for a MMO.   I'm just not buying that they are selling and the reasons why have already been debated on this forum.  But like I said, time will tell.  You can always PM me again like you did when I predicted what would happen with the raffles and tell me I was right.. You might want to rethink that comment about me looking like an utter fool.. Not even sure where that came from considering what I posted and when I posted about it.  If anything, I was correct and I was just holding them accountable..  

 

You are misguided; And I am laughing my socks off because you are plain wrong. The game is exactly where the developers say it is at . Some of the Kickstarter Videos show a lot more than vaporware, you are just too bitter and blinkered to see it (Remember Pre-Alpha).

The raffles delivered exactly what they said they would , you dug yourself a hole made a fool of yourself  had a good rant and your ignorance here just shows that ever since you are trying to I don't know create some form of "Cult of Convo".

If you look at current MMOs and the ammount of design effort they put in against an extended design period , then you may realise that a lot more can be acheived if the correct focus and effort is applied. Some of us understand this and we are not all fools far from it.

Your petty nature must come from some where other than this game , remember the core here is the design and toolsets to deliver something truly different. I can only applaud this development team for putting so much effort into their design.

But why am I explaining something you already know? Be Bitter and be twisted but remember it won't do you any good.

This is simple while writers or the industry keep perpetuating the myth of "F2P" as a concept because it is not,  and this is a mute discussion and not even worth the cheap paper it is written on.

Lets have some honesty, as the simple straightforward pay mechanisms that delivered everything without smoke and mirrors, can return and we can feel that gameplay is associated with a level playing field.

The genre is dead, if someone had the nerve to release ; EQ or AC1 with a new skin , and a slightly more innovative quest approach , would at least have a couple of good games to play as it is the over-use of insta win features has made the genre bland.

A couple of companies are managing to deliver and even develop some things that may be trully astounding, but the jaded just try to shoot anything that may be new down (this site being a prime example. Why do I still bother coming here ? Lots of time on my hands and its pretty amusing reading most of the trash here;

But then sadly for the genre to revive to anything vaguely decent most of the player base would have to be forced to pass an IQ test, or show some common sense. And neither of these will happen.

Originally posted by Convo
Yea..I don't get the blind faith here and it annoys me that the same person who reported me to this site continues to throw out subtle shots towards me.. As my concerns are totally legit at this point..be a fan boy for this game.. That's fine but just because the same person who updates the original forums and post here tells you it's all true because its on their "forum". Doesn't make it true...the bottom line is they have 8 years and not even a playable demo.. I deal with facts and the facts are this company has nothing to show you. They also have no investors... They just have a bunch of words on a website. You can't dispute that.  On top of all of that.. If someone is going to ask for your money.. You should demand to see a little something...  Or ask some Devs in the industry their opinion on what this company is promising.   That would be a  very interesting discussion. 

Your misleading and misguided posts are amusing, but sadly just like yourself a lot of us have probably played as many if not more MMO hours than most. Your opinion just appears very very weak. Your concerns are just that but they are not really that legitimate as if you had taken any time whatsoever to engage properley, which yoiu haven't you would realise exactly what these guys have developed and where they are at..

The facts exist and what they say they have developed is exactly what they have done. Seems to me you are sulking because you were made to look like a complete and utter fool.

That said you are allowed an opinion, even if it is i'll informed. I remember why i stopped posting here too many people trying to look clever when really they are too short sighted to understand the future. What CoS are developing is complex and difficult but not impossible , I am a designer myself and can appreciate what they are doing.

Originally posted by nationalcity
I'm so sick of seeing these lawsuits about stupid **** it's getting rather old and you can tell how damn greedy people are......

I guess if you patented or created something of value and someone ripped you off you would just shrug and say thats life.

Then you get people in the real worl who protect their owwn IP.

Originally posted by Crunchy222

Originally posted by Jatar
All these rants and attacks on our little game development company are all very entertaining and such, but really, I have to go and get back to work actually building Citadel of Sorcery.   Have a nice time storming the castle.  I hope to see you in the game for an adventure some day.  Until then, have fun!

All im saying is:

In game footage of more than just npc's walking around, show us the combat and this epic engine in action.

More details, not vauge "were going to make exploration awesome" crap

 

Get some people in a beta

 

THEN get cocky.

 

Dont take the Derek Smart route of getting cocky and insulting potential customers first...

 

People are going to doubt your work because as it stands now, its all just a bunch of text and talk.  Untill that changes, your going to be either making an ass of yourself telling people they are wrong with noting to validate that position, or your going to have to deal with skeptics.  For the skeptics...this isnt their first rodeo...theyve seen and heard all this before...rarely is even a fraction of the hype deliverd.

 

Hope its different with this game...but untill i can see something, get some in depth details...and possibly even try it or see other people trying it...just a bunch of hype.

 

Oh and if this is super pre alpha and you dont have all that yet....why start hyping it now?

Rather than trash talk go to the Official site , you look such a fool. But then thats what a lot of jaded gamers here do.

Just step back a bit , remove all the auto features that make games more fun so that communities can thrive and you have your games back. Sadly too many people just want to insta win and not have fun playing MMOs these days.

until then none are currently worth playing....

Originally posted by delete5230

Blizzard made WoW easy.  Let me ask you. Do you think mmo players really asked for it ?

My guess !!!.....Blizzard and other Developers are acting on their own on this subject TO PUSH EXPANTIONS. I don't think kids are complaining at all.....It's just a marketing trick.

 

We have no hart-pumping content at all in mmo's any more. Some would call this " Old School " but hard content has nothing to do with outdated content.  We just have easy and I really don't think anyone is asking for it.

 

 

Why does hard = old school.  Who even named it that ?.......What does exploring then finding a Keep, cave, or hole in the ground, with extreamly hard content inside have to do with old school. Remember when stuff like this was not even advertised. You just found it on your own.  Players would find it and using word-of-mouth, places like this would become a hot spot. Now it's a major feature. 

I guess you have to be 50 and up to enjoy a hard, community driven mmo with a lot of un-advertised, un-knownes. I like an mmo that you better have a large friends list or a good strong guild if your even to think about leaving a popular quest hub. But then I'm 49 years old.

It's my opinion but Blizzards Titin project, and SOE's EQ Next is gonna be crap right out of the gate !....Easy, auto-feature, solo crap. Just another 30 day video game with others on the screen.

No one asked for easy; Internet access became cheap and the intellectually challenged/ Unemployed came on board and so a new con was required wghich is called F2P. Along with this the lazy types needed someothing to fit their status and that has to be easy.

And sadly the Developers other than a few are playing along because a clone is easier to make than a real game with gameplay.

Old School did not contain all the Auto Features, which caused community to form and people to work together. The key auto features tha have killed the genre are: Auction Houses/Guilds/Insta Travel/ Auto Mail.

The last real fun I had has been in EvE and Asherons Call 1, just running over an hill was an adventure in itself. High and low level mobs interspersed everywhere. So you had to scout and run before you got your XP.

You just don't see this anymore...... sad but true

Originally posted by saurus123

so i think its time to remove it from mmorpg.com?

 

 

This is one to definitley , and keep here if you don't like that then i know what i'd rather stay. Game stays, you  ....