Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by grummz

I've heard the MMORPG audience is a tough crowd. I think you guys have every right to be angry that MMOs haven't changed much in the past 10 years. Glad to see people still want more, as it really makes me want to figure out what the "more" is as a game maker.

- Mark Kern

and cars have changed very little since the days when the first model T rolled off the line

how about games ? baseball, football ? basketball ? uniforms and some small rule changes but a home run is still a home run. Chess rules been the same for several hundred years.

on a MMO the designers still are forced to work within the limits of the technology, you have a pixilated character tha is limited to movement and intereaction with mobiles.You can't smell taste ot do much withthem except destroy them or move them from point A to point B. Not sure what peoiple expect.

you can make that mobile represent a pirate, a space trooper, a rat, or a zopmbie but at the end of the day you are going to have to kill ten , twelve or seven of them to advance your character. That is just the nature of the MMO, don't like it then find a new hobby or come up with some ground breaking idea.

Sam Rayburn once said " Any jackass can kick down a barn but it takes a carpenter to build one.

Are any carpenters here? or just a bunch of jackasses

 

Great point, where the hell is my flying car?  I was promised one back in the 60's and yet here in 2012 I still don't see one anywhere. (same with my jetpack btw)

Because that's really what we're asking for, stop evolving the model T, do something radically different, some entirely new system of transportation like teleporters.

Same with MMORPG's, let's see some really big innovation/change here and knock my socks off. (think New Cap City in Caprica)

As for being a carpenter, leave that to the people who are paid to build these worlds, up to them to figure it out, stop giving me excuses why they can't do it.

Excuse me, my household robot just served my lunch. 

 

+1 to this.

The problem with this example is that to "evolve" the car into "something else", and by reference the MMORPG, is that key elements are missing to do so. First we need a half-decent safe anti-gravity solution to make "flying cars".

By direct reference, we need better engines that allow for more in-depth mechanics to evolve the genre. However, all anyone keeps doing is re-inventing the MMO engine by simply "remaking" their own version of the basic MMO.

This, I believe, is the REAL issue. They need to create engines that are built for a specific mindset rather than building an engine for a specific GAME.

Originally posted by 13lake

seriously they're holding multiple 100k key giveouts, the forums are visible to everyone and they are still enforcing it ? 

Oh well goodbye second half of my post.

The forums they have for beta participants shouldn't be open to the public to read?

I don't see how the Beta forums are public considering I can't see them not logged in going here.

PM'ed a moderator on World of Warplanes forum, NDA is still in effect. You're allowed to say you're in Beta due to the key handouts,  but no mention of in-game stuff!

Keep it clean :3

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by eggy08

Honestly, did anyone ever think that IF (notice I use the word if, becuase I highly doubt the would do this to show off their epeen) they actually changed the numbers there might be a different reason?

For instance, I and many others have noticed the really long queue times for WvW. This is a huge problem when people just want to get on, play around a bit and get off since they are stuck in a 20 min + queue and forced to wait. By changing numbers, it forces more people to join the other servers instead to combat this queue.

Another issue is the overflow servers. I'm sure most people are sick of getting put there. When you go into a new area, you don't want to get put there, because at this point now, you will generally find a lot less people in there, since there are less people leveling. Not only that, but it has to be hard to get done with most of the high population DEs when you have people leaving overflow constantly or when there is noone really in it besides people from your server.

Just a thought. Not every company cares to lie to their playerbase on a daily basis to pretend like they are better than they really are.

Again, re-read my OP. I'm not saying they're changing the numbers to any drastic extent at the moment. However, I'm pointing out that people are using these load indicators purely for argumentative purposes which is an ignorant thing to do. Several people in this thread have already understood that without insulting others.

 

Also, a company is a company no matter how you cut it. You can't pretend to understand ArenaNet simply because their PR people say that they're a kind & loving company. Producers, and the "Suits" of a company, do things often the developers are in direct protest to.

 

Are the developers good people? Most certainly the best i've seen, but a company still makes decisions regardless of how they feel, and they're the ones you're seeing in most of these videos.

 

I get it, MoP launched and you guys expectected a mass exodus. When one didn't happen you wanted to make a thread saying just because the server loads say they are high it doesn't mean they are to cover your basis.

Now if you were talking about companies in general doing this you wouldn't have posted it specifically in the GW2 forums. Your thread was directed at GW2 hence why it was placed here and not some where else that would have fit in with your edit lol. 

"I wasn't meaning to attack GW2, I was talking about this as an issue in general... yet I posted it here instead" Someone would need to consume a great deal of paint chips for that to fly lol. 

Sadly the part in red makes a great deal more sense on why you would have posted this thread in these forums over what you tried to claim. Your post history doesn't help show your "pure" motives either. Again, you couldn't even stick to the same story on how you purchased the game. The same day you had 2 completely different stories lol. I bought it for $60 and it wasn't worth it, I paid $80 for the DE with a gift card so it was worth it... wtf lol?

Actually I forgot which version I had gotten since I used an amazon gift-card. The $60 and $80 version really is no different other than some meaningless in-game fluff. So it was worth $60 to me.

Does that really scream agenda O_o?

Also, the fact he went SO far off into left field considering I don't consider WoW players & GW2 players to be of the same mindset. So No, MoP never was a consideration ever for me personally.

Originally posted by VikingGamer

snip

 

I enjoy quests also but saying that quest hubs are done is not the same as saying quests are done. The hearts in GW2 are really just a form of locational quests that consolidate 2-5 tasks into one completion meter that also simply don't need you speak with the NPC in order to start. I would say that they are still essentially quests but with the delivery changed up a bit.

The questions become, 1) will we be seeing individual tasks continue or will they be consolidated. 2) will these tasks need to be accepted before starting them. 3) will tasks disappear all together in favor of something more like DEs.

1) consolidated tasks are very nice, especially if you like doing one thing more than another. Feed the cows or fight the bandits. I would rather fight but I can feed cows if no bandits can be found. It is also nice to not feel like you just need 1 more special bandit so now you need to weave between all the normal bandits wandering around because they wont give you quest credit. Long before GW2 I have imagined the farmer wanting to say, "Gah, just kill me some bandits. 10 would be great but more is even better."

Which brings up the only thing I think GW2 did wrong with the hearts. Once you fill the meter magically the farmer could care less any more if you killed another bandit in your life. Yet they are still crawling all over his farm. If the farmer wanted you to kill bandits in the first place then surely he would appreciate you continuing to do so. I am sure Anet caps this because they don't want people to bot but again that strikes me as poisoning the fun well for everyone so that the bad guys cant do what they want.

I would like to see games go more in the direction of go over here and help so and so as much as you want with diminishing returns after a certain point to encourage you to move on and help lots of different people but ultimately you decide how much you will help farmer Dan. Less artificial limitations on questing but there will still be questing.

2) yeah it is nice to not have to accept the quest before hand. Although it is a bit unrealistic to come into an area and magically know what farmer Dan needs done.  What if Farmer Dan or one of his family were to come up to you and say "hey, I am glad to see you, would you be willing to do somethings for me?" and then have the quest automatically land in your log with the details. Meh, just a detail really. Wouldn't change anything. I think it works either way to have a group of quests or a consolidated quest land in your task list automatically when you get to a new place. I definitly like it when NPCs in GW2 direct you to particular events. What I don't like is when those events are finished before I get there.

3) I don't think task, missions or little quests will disappear in favor of dynamic events. The Hearts in GW2 or hubs in other games are a good mechanic to draw you though a world and make sure you at least hit all the big locations. And I think that things will remain geographic only because it is too easy to go though an area at just the wrong time and not see any events pop up. I we place all content on a space/time maping then we run the real risk of our timing being bad. Further, even if you do see a good bit of the content, people will still only be seeing a part of what you worked on. I think spreading SOME content across a time dimension is good in that it makes things seem more realistic and it makes for great replayibility but that also makes it more expensive because you will have to have much more content over all since you have to take into account people missing a certain percentage of that content when they go though. I think this model will become more populate at the high end of MMOs but not necessarily over all. Possibly this will become what separates Buy or Sub to play from Free or Shop to play.

I liked your sig so much I rewrote it to fit these forums better :3.

Originally posted by Sylvarii

Originally posted by SnarlingWolf

Originally posted by RefMinor
It didn't change everything, so the premise of your question is incorrect.

Definetly this.

 

1) GW2 got rid of quest hubs: Yes, it also pretty much got rid of quests too. So.... I'll take quest hubs over that. The game is at least 98% kill/gather/destroy tasks. You know, those exact things people complain about in other games but for some reason when ANet does it, it is revolutionary.

 

2) GW2 is B2P: Yes, they successfully tricked players into paying $60 for a F2P game. Yet again, because it was ANet, it is revolutionary and will be the future of gaming. So the future is we'll all pay $60 for a F2P when currently you get F2P games for free to start with... good improvement.

 

3) GW2 auto grouped everyone: Yup, and they killed all socialization by doing so. Good to know the future of gaming is an MMO where no one ever talks to each other. Sounds fun.

 

4) GW2 did combos!!: Oh wait, other games already did those.

5) GW2 did Dynamic Events!!: Oh wait, other games already did those.

6) GW2 did WvW PvP!!: Not any different from RvR that has been done before only this time there is absolutely no point to it at all so it is boring as hell. Not a good improvement.

 

 

If we base the future of gaming off of GW2... we're f&%ked.

Could not of said it better myself,on top of that GW2 lacks depth.

1) True

2) Careful saying they "tricked" anyone, you'll might be called the T word.

3) True

4) True

5) They weren't Dynamic, they were scripted chain events.

6) Wasn't really RvR, more like a bastardized version.

Conclusion: I disagree, I'm not seeing the massive move by the market towards the GW2 structure.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

You claim my "Post History" should be something to be scrutinized over like I'm some sort of racist or troll. YET, i've never ONCE made a thread or post such as "SWTOR = Worst game ever", "Diablo 3 = a piece of horse crap", or "People whom play GW2 are stupid", yet you bite, scream, and insult as if I have?

 

Is criticism so horribly disliked?

Whoa there, buddy. I never said that your post history would indicate one thing or another. I don't think Halflife, the person I was responding to, was insulting you, either.

Biting, screaming and insulting?

Calling you a troll? a racist?

Maybe you might benefit from taking a step away from the computer for a couple of minutes, taking a deep breath and relaxing.
 

The "a racist?" remark was over the top on purpose, and to get your attention to what your posting. Probably wasn't needed, and I appologize.

 

However, your reply to check my post history for my "motives" directly relates to me somehow being a troll. That's the only way that could have been taken. How else did you expect me to respond to something like that :/? What did you mean then, because it isn't obvious whatsoever.

Sounds like you can understand then how people can see your posting of this in the GW2 forum and other incidental aspects of your OP to possibly indicate a motive other than random public service announcement.

Sure I can understand the idea behind it, but the very fact it was taken that way without any mention in that direction is rather a sign of how bad these forums really have gotten. :(

Why does Mr.Kern keep coming off as if he's trying to brown nose with ArenaNet? I've not seen a single shred of evidence pointing to any of his wild claims with regard to GW2?

Is it just me :/?

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by lizardbones

---

Originally posted by Loktofeit
"Nothing really came of it..."

because no one other than picayune forumites give a crap.

---

You guys actually go and look up words to use that I have to go look up the definition for, don't you. You probably sit around, browsing through online dictionaries, finding words that could be used in posts, but generally aren't used in posts because nobody, outside of people who browse dictionaries would know what they mean. You do this on purpose, don't you. DON'T YOU!

I think I've been outed as a word nerd.

Passive learning is a powerful thing. I wish more people used words that force people to google them :)

Originally posted by Failings

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by korent1991

lol... oh man... you're really reaching far now.

I didn't really see people posting that much taht gw2 is retaining it's players judging by the server population. Even if that was the case, alot of servers (including mine) are still "full" and thus locked for any new players trying to create characters there at peak hours.

Just for your information, GW2 server indicators change troughout the day calculated by the number of players/load on the server. So a server which is full at evening hours is mostly "medium" in the morning. So I don't really know what you're trying to say with this. That people are not still playing the game all day long? :D

 

 

That's not what i'm saying at all. Load indicators DO change based on people online at the time, hence them being load indicators. What i'm saying is that the threshold for them to be "low, medium, high" can be adjusted to misrepresnt the population. Companies do it all the time, and i'm not saying that it is happening to an extent that is measurable yet.

 

However, I'm just reminding people that using them in a pure argumentative situation is a fallacy.

What he's trying to say (I think) is don't believe everything a gaming megacorp tells you, specially regarding sub numbers and server loads.

Does it apply to GW2? Most probably not...yet. They're still surfing their wave of success so they have no need to lie.

Bingo ^

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

You claim my "Post History" should be something to be scrutinized over like I'm some sort of racist or troll. YET, i've never ONCE made a thread or post such as "SWTOR = Worst game ever", "Diablo 3 = a piece of horse crap", or "People whom play GW2 are stupid", yet you bite, scream, and insult as if I have?

 

Is criticism so horribly disliked?

Whoa there, buddy. I never said that your post history would indicate one thing or another. I don't think Halflife, the person I was responding to, was insulting you, either.

Biting, screaming and insulting?

Calling you a troll? a racist?

Maybe you might benefit from taking a step away from the computer for a couple of minutes, taking a deep breath and relaxing.
 

The "a racist?" remark was over the top on purpose, and to get your attention to what your posting. Probably wasn't needed, and I appologize.

However, your reply to check my post history for my "motives" directly relates to me somehow being a troll. That's the only way that could have been taken. How else did you expect me to respond to something like that :/? What did you mean then, because it isn't obvious whatsoever.

Originally posted by eggy08

Honestly, did anyone ever think that IF (notice I use the word if, becuase I highly doubt the would do this to show off their epeen) they actually changed the numbers there might be a different reason?

For instance, I and many others have noticed the really long queue times for WvW. This is a huge problem when people just want to get on, play around a bit and get off since they are stuck in a 20 min + queue and forced to wait. By changing numbers, it forces more people to join the other servers instead to combat this queue.

Another issue is the overflow servers. I'm sure most people are sick of getting put there. When you go into a new area, you don't want to get put there, because at this point now, you will generally find a lot less people in there, since there are less people leveling. Not only that, but it has to be hard to get done with most of the high population DEs when you have people leaving overflow constantly or when there is noone really in it besides people from your server.

Just a thought. Not every company cares to lie to their playerbase on a daily basis to pretend like they are better than they really are.

Again, re-read my OP. I'm not saying they're changing the numbers to any drastic extent at the moment. However, I'm pointing out that people are using these load indicators purely for argumentative purposes which is an ignorant thing to do. Several people in this thread have already understood that without insulting others.

Also, a company is a company no matter how you cut it. You can't pretend to understand ArenaNet simply because their PR people say that they're a kind & loving company. Producers, and the "Suits" of a company, do things often the developers are in direct protest to.

Are the developers good people? Most certainly the best i've seen, but a company still makes decisions regardless of how they feel, and they're the ones you're seeing in most of these videos.

Originally posted by Bladestrom
I understand what you are saying op, the figures are meaningless. They are, they are equally meaningless in all mmorgs. What matters is wether the population level actually affects the gaming experience.

Thank you :D!

Someone who actually read my OP :D! Ok, i take that back, there are quite a few who understood what I was saying. I think I'm only reading the troll posts and getting depressed though :(

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by Loktofeit

"Nothing really came of it..."

 

because no one other than picayune forumites give a crap.

*wants to google this

 

 

*is scared to

 Picayune is a word you use when you want to express "trivial" in a way that makes anyone reading it feel that they posses only picayune intelligence.

Dang, I thought it was related to salsa.

Glad i'm not the only one :).

Originally posted by Kost

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

 

That's not what i'm saying at all. Load indicators DO change based on people online at the time, hence them being load indicators. What i'm saying is that the threshold for them to be "low, medium, high" can be adjusted to misrepresnt the population. Companies do it all the time, and i'm not saying that it is happening to an extent that is measurable yet.

 

However, I'm just reminding people that using them in a pure argumentative situation is a fallacy.

What a load of shit.

Your entire intent was to bait people into arguments when you created this thread, hence the smartass smileyface at the end of your initial statement as a final "fuck you" to the rest of us. You really think you're fooling anyone?

 

WOW, just........wow. Seriously, what the hell has happened to this forum?!?!

Originally posted by Drakynn

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by Kuppa
Isn't it great when people create meaningless post just to say something negative about a game they dont like??

Anything that doesn't confirm with people's own opinion is negative on these forums. And it goes for any MMO.

Which means Kuppa is saying that I made this entire thread to bag on a game he likes so he attacks me for it.

 

When, in fact, the whole point of this thread was to remind people that judging a game's population by its population indicators is a fool's errand.

 

Where in my post did I say GW2 was "dieing", "Crap", or attacking it in any form? All I said was that corporations running products have a tendancy to deceive in order to continue profits. It is in ArenaNet's best interest to not allow players to feel like their game is "dieing".

All Im saying is that writting a post about something like this is pretty much done just to rag on the game. Everyone knows this, there is no reason to say it besides throwing dirt and starting up fights....

 

Besides it doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand the undertones in both the message and the title itself..."News Flash...", really?

Especially when it's placed in a game's forums specifically and deliberately instead of in general for discussion.

Again, where did I say GW2 is dieing? Where did I say GW2 is going to be "dead" within 6months?

Have I ever once in this thread claimed some sort of horrible negativity towards GW2 directly?

NO

That is my issue, I'm being attacked for something so minimal it might as well be considered reverse trolling.

You don't see anything wrong with how you, or others, are handling this thread? I do, because it's showing me that you can never say ANYTHING whatsoever unless it is prefaced with "I love this game, don't get me wrong" or something super positive.

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by halflife25

Originally posted by Kuppa
Isn't it great when people create meaningless post just to say something negative about a game they dont like??

Anything that doesn't confirm with people's own opinion is negative on these forums. And it goes for any MMO.

Look at the OP's post history. One thing that can be said in his favor, though, is that he at least puts in some effort and tries to get creative with his approach.

I like how people on this forum, most notably Kuppa & sometimes Loktofeit, provide no argument for baseless insults such as these.

 

You didn't even read my OP. All you saw was me posting something minorly related to GW2 and went into red alert to defend GW2.

It's an insult to direct peopel to your post history to tell what your actual motives are? If you're ashamed of what you have written that's not an insult on my part, that's a personal issue on yours.

And actually my first post was in direct response to the topic if population indicators. As to your final assertion, feel free to go through my post history and show me any posts where I "went into red alert to defend GW2." Feel free to apologize after you search, too.

Why would I be ashamed of my post history? I've been very vocal against people creating exaggerated hype for mechanics & features that don't exist or do not exist in the manner presented.

I've also been very outspoken with regards to SWTOR & Diablo 3. I've also been appologized to & thanked many times in the past couple months with regards to speaking out prior to the prior aforementioned products only to be flamed and then again appologized to as people got "caught up" in the over-hypedness of Diablo 3.

Similarly, when I see people claiming that GW2 is still doing amazingly well weeks after launch by DIRECTLY citing the server population indicators given by ArenaNet without any real connection to an actual # for their thresholds I make a thread reminding people not to make such an ignorant mistake.

Please tell me what my "Motives" are based on my post history? I've never once "trolled" or "hated" on any game in particular, and all I've tried to do is bring sanity back into threads that are akin to "GW2 = best game EVER", or "SWTOR = best game EVER", etc etc. If my opinions have ever come off as me claiming 100% facts that has never been my intention.

I'm more concerned with your motives than anyone elses however.

You claim my "Post History" should be something to be scrutinized over like I'm some sort of racist or troll. YET, i've never ONCE made a thread or post such as "SWTOR = Worst game ever", "Diablo 3 = a piece of horse crap", or "People whom play GW2 are stupid", yet you bite, scream, and insult as if I have?

Is criticism so horribly disliked?

Originally posted by korent1991

lol... oh man... you're really reaching far now.

I didn't really see people posting that much taht gw2 is retaining it's players judging by the server population. Even if that was the case, alot of servers (including mine) are still "full" and thus locked for any new players trying to create characters there at peak hours.

Just for your information, GW2 server indicators change troughout the day calculated by the number of players/load on the server. So a server which is full at evening hours is mostly "medium" in the morning. So I don't really know what you're trying to say with this. That people are not still playing the game all day long? :D

 

That's not what i'm saying at all. Load indicators DO change based on people online at the time, hence them being load indicators. What i'm saying is that the threshold for them to be "low, medium, high" can be adjusted to misrepresnt the population. Companies do it all the time, and i'm not saying that it is happening to an extent that is measurable yet.

However, I'm just reminding people that using them in a pure argumentative situation is a fallacy.

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by apocoluster

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Look @ this thread TESO, Warhammer 40k Onlime, and NeverWinter Online devs.

We haven't wanted Themeparks for the past 5+years! That's what you're creating, a soon-to-be-failure if you continue on your current route.

I still want themeparks  *shrugs*

Same here. *shares a /shurg

 

 

I hope every Sandbox lover on this site invests money into Darkfall:(can't remember) 2.0. If you want sandboxes to suceed, someone has to support the ones out there. And don't give me that "current sandboxes suck" crap. IMO they all suck, so that doesn't move me.

Show support so the devs see you, rather than just hear your bitching.

The problem is WHO to support. The company doing Darkfall 2.0 is a very VERY mismanaged one, and low budget at that. I wouldn't want to invest into Darkfall 2 even if I had a couple million to throw around.

That's coming from an avid Sandbox fan :).

Also, why do you enjoy playing someone else's hand-written story (Linear Themeparks)? Is it that you're using it as an alternative form of a Book/Movie? :o