Originally posted by SequenceLost

Originally posted by Euphoryk

I am a stern non-supporter of fast travel in any form.

No, the game does not need it, you have multiple types of vehicles and that is more than sufficient.

I could post a veritable laundry list of reasons why NOT to implement fast travel into the game, however, it is much easier to just do a search on the official forums if you are that interested. You will quite quickly see that fast travel is a minority request, and the majority of the games devoted supporters are highly opposed to the idea.

 

 

+1  !!!!

I can see some of the points listed as to why fast travel could be beneficial but to take away the "exploration" aspect of FE would completely destroy that with which FE is all about.

 

a train would do nothing to stop exploration   especially since you would probably have to visit  each location and do a series of quests to get or maintain access   and I really love the idea of players being able  to improve their world  not just be a static bug hunt  like so many other MMOs.

first off  FAST TRAVEL is going to happen unless by sheer  "sony like" ego  the devs ignore players and the forces of nature.

I and many players are totally against insta travel or "iceing" as this  movement is far too fast  though this is the  devs lazy method to shut players up  this is the most likely   "afterthought" travel they will dump on players.

I have fully supported the "train" idea  if not actually  origionated it  months back in beta  though I sugested that they use a more low tech steam train using the traditional rails  that are also seen  around the zones,  it  has the potential to address the problem of  stratigic travel without making things  overly easy. It also has great potential as a public works project and focus as a plot device for many support and maintence and security quests .  the overhead train is simply beyond our  ability to repair and maintain such a system   a steam train would be a chalange  let alone an overhead  electric monorail.

*************

a few things still on my list...as ongoing failures for fallen earth. my bucket list of major issues.

water ditch in monkeytown water is a non interactable mass and its easy to get stuck between the sides of a ditch and the water
travel times overly long (steam train)
costume clothing / clothing toggles  they have only ypur primary slots  which  are use for  stat level armor,  costume clothing obsolete after only a few levels .

crafting que no ability to shify things around in the craft que  #1 asked for fix.
radiation barrier defined more obvious,, with rad meter clicker no more "suprise your dead!"
vehicles need vehicle physics (jumping)
horse population gonna be a problem after release as in 100+ horses standing in oil
repeatable quests not identified
need grenage physics includes the poisons and acids
need shotgun physics not slug
shotgun damage out of wach 410 is the smallest NOT the bigest (12,20,410)
factions are wattery and have no unique contrast. example  vistas ride motercycles...hello!!! treehuggers!!!
no player chat channels
no tiered clan bank security
need more player choice in crafting dyeing or other customizations like a blue mororcycle or green berret or spicy chicken (vs normal chicken)
no /follow command
no /drag command

I would have to say even though steam train and shotguns are important to me,, I would have to say the number 1 thing that needs to be addressed is the vehicle physics and travel.
 

yes agree it was a good idea to double check  procedures occasinonally kudos

you do need some  grade points to go along with such a review  I prefer a 1-10 scale  for such things as  graphics sound  completeness  proformance    but you must also include some endgame time whenever that is possible  as well as   some   blind ingame opinions     so as to paint as CLEAR AND ACCURITE picture as possible

I have a long list  of  FE  holes and gaps  that  I use  to check off at least some of the things I was watching

a few things still on my list...

water ditch in monkeytown water is a non interactable mass and its easy to get stuck between the sides of a ditch and the water
travel times overly long (steam train)
costume clothing / clothing toggles
crafting que
radiation barrier defined more obvious,, with rad meter clicker
vehicles need vehicle physics (jumping)
horse population gonna be a problem after release as in 100+ horses standing in oil
repeatable quests not identified
need grenage physics includes the poisons and acids
need shotgun physics not slug
shotgun damage out of wach 410 is the smallest NOT the bigest (12,20,410)
factions are wattery and have no unique contrast.
no player chat channels
no tiered clan bank security
need more player choice in crafting dyeing or other customizations like a blue mororcycle or green berret or spicy chicken (vs normal chicken)
no /follow command
no /drag command

I would have to say even though steam train and shotguns are important to me,, I would have to say the number 1 thing that needs to be addressed is the vehicle physics
 

the higher you go the more sparce and chaotic the game content

and the use of a virus diaster makes the environment unremarkable in most places you cant really tell that anything happened

I REALLY wanted to love this game  as aftermath  is very high on my theme list   but it just had too many failings and missing code ,, it really is still  a beta game  and it looks to be that whay for quite a while,

I will be glad to play once most of the  fundamental issues are addressed   but the devs dont seem to care  and just wanted to dump another money maker on the market

im in "wait and see" mode with this game.

From what I understand lifetime and six month subscribers to Champions Online should be first into the Star Trek Online beta, so start checking your inboxes!

wont this potentially  kill their champion population?

 same goes for plastic: needed for some early recipes but that can be found adeguately only from s2

summarizing, the basis is damn good, but needs a good lot of polishing.

plastic was never a problem,,  up in the far NE corner   just north of a tow n up there  was a whole hilltop covered in plastic and some medical resource,, i must have gathered 300-400 there if not more   thats the nice thing about the resources  there not evenly sprinkled over the entire zone like other games resource nuggets,, some times its a mine  or rock outcroping or junkyard  or even a crashed space ship :)

fallen earth crafting system:

very good foundation and very organic and immersive resource nodes   kudos

no player input or customization  all bikes the same color all recipies re pre-canned

some recipies dont make sense  like the 3 different flavores of medium rifle ammo, normal effecient economic the only difference is the number produced  its not uncommon to be carrying 2 stacks for each calaber used  normal  is looted,, and economic/effecient are from advanced ammo crafting ( thats alot of un-needed stacks of the same ammo)

armor is stupidly STAT BASED and no costume clothing option or clothing toggles  so about 1/3 of the "cool" clothing out of the running by level 6     by level 20 everyone mostly wears the armor of their level  so many clones

STILL no ability to shift things in the que  (the #1 requested thing in beta) so if you poped in a bike that takes 24 hours  and you need a 5 minute part or some ammo  your screwed.

im not gonna post my list of all this games missing elements needless to say  only players that are new (and dont know better) or players with very low standards will be playing FE.

oh and a virus makes a sucky and boringly normal environment  save for a few bugs and zombies  (oh ya,, shotguns suck vs zombies they even use crapy rifle slug physics  LAME.)

Originally posted by booboofinger

I always thought if you must have a sci-fi, space opera combat game, Star Trek would be the last on my list. Sure, DS-9 had combats but it simply paled in comparison to another series from the same time: Babylon 5. 

Now that would be a killer IP to have as an MMO. Real combat, races that looked and where radically different (instead of the just having a wierd set of ears or nose). And the feeling of unpredictability dread and hope at the same time that no other space opera has ever had.

And I would love to fly a Vorlon ship...

look up a failed game called SEED

great idea.. absolutly terrible development

the theme was more of a teraforming fronteer colinization type of thing..

you wake up (kind of a clone or tube baby)  and your in a huge  crashed  colony/teraforming ship   distruction everywhere  things need repair and maintence   supplies need to be discovered and organized  and so forth   this game ultimatly progresses to move outside and or  underground,,  players know nearly nothing about the planet they are on or its star system    it could be earth like or totally alien   even which way is north (if there is a north) isnt known  or the weather,, what you can eat,, if there is intelligent life  

there are many types of players that can be described as being mostly one type more than others

WARMONGER: Thes guys are  out for the action be it hack and slash or race cars

ROLEPLAYER:  this type  loces delving into their alternate persona and getting immersed in this alternate life and all that surounds it

SOCIALIZER:  this type of player loves  grouping and chating with other people  sometimes doing nothing else in game except maby crafting or farming or other semi focused  endever.

PUZZLER: this type loves mysteries and puzzles  possibly  agility chalanges  and the like  

BUILDER:  this type of player  tends to love crafting  and changing the world  be it a house or road or bridge or tower

ACHIEVER:  this person likes  leveling  getting awards and achieveing goals  especially the recognition  badges medals  reputation.

EXPLORER: this type of player likes to  explore the world  and discover all there is to discover  usually including the systems of the game

HELPER:  this type of person wants to get into a position skill or level wise to be able to assist other players

LEADER: this type of player wants to be in a position of authority organizing or comanding other players  many are kin leaders sinse thare are usually no king or bishop or mage master positions available in that MMOs like to think of their worlds.

the TRUMP  this type is out to own everything  houses castles ships  have 30 million in gold in the bank  have a private army   luxury is an understatement.

sadly most games focus almost entirly on the combat, even the economy is based on  weapons and armor  and all important crafts are combat based..   actually many real crafts are life based   usually the processing of foodstuff and storage  such as pottery and basket weaving 

just think of crossing a derert in most MMOs  when water is trivial  so is the trip accross a desert   and there missing out on so much  possible  intrinsic game content  hell the trip is half the quest!   its like,, do you try to carry enough supplies?  do you detour to oasis or wells along the way?  do you hire someone that can find or summon water?    jorses? or camels? or on foot?  just to name a few

warmongers say that this stuff gets in the way of their killin and is boring (and true  a bad developer can make this a living hell) but just like a good GM  great content can make the walls melt away.

FOOD is allways one of the prime things I look for in an MMO,, how important is it?  is it practical  and fit in the genra?   is it more than just a buff

weather and climate  ive yet to see seasons in a game let alone that effect the charactors and what they wear.

MMOs tend to be rather small and their scope is narrow  few if any have working siege engines or boats/ships  I cant think of any where the ENDGAME is anything more than infine raid grind or  PVP

and ALL MMOs are boringly STATIC  no mater how many mobs you kill  or bosses you banish  the world is allways the same  there isnt even any fake  changes  or shifts  

also MMOS have a total lack of DRAMA.  just look at any decent movie, tv show or novel  and you will see gobs of drama 

players rarly bond with a game  because there isnt anything for them to bond with,  burn down their home town  and they could care less  they either just get out of the way  or they kill "for the EXP"  (boy talk about derailing the roleplay train)   ask a local cop why he killed that robber and I doubt he will say  for the expirence and the phat loot! 

I HATE the in game auction houses because they are so narrow and flawed and easily manipulated.  and its really hard to figure out what price to place on your  items (are the items allready posted  fair?  or are they there because they are too expensive?)  and if you post stuff for a low fair price some farmer can just buy them up and repost them at their higher monopoly price

one world  auction houses are a crippling curse to MMOs  and I really hate COMBAT based economies (those that are based on weapons and armor instead of food and drink)

and the games themselves  promote  the use of gold farmers  with their game code  such things as limited bad size  or  quest construction  and especially the construction of the auction house all contribute to  mega inflation.

Originally posted by Samhael

 Haven't you made the exact same post before here? :)

the things in my post still arnt fixed so yes the list is unchanged

andto the other poster,,if you dont scribe, you cant post on the official forums  so this is one place to keep getting the word out about FE.

and i dont hate the game, i just think its half assed attempt  and spartan physics should be known by potential players

i mean come on! vehicles that dont leave the ground?

costume clothing fraud 

grenades that dont work like grenades

hell they didnt even get the guage of shotguns in the right order!  thats just crappy quality control!

and wnyone that doesnt recognize this is either an idiot  or is clueless as to what possible standards are for MMOs.

I really wanted FE to suceed  but it was a huge letdown accross the board except maby in the area of crafting and harvesting  they did some prety good work there, though mot much personal choice in crafting  and they have yet to listen to the player base about  not being able to shift items around in the crafting que (the #1 requested thing in beta)

for me Im actually in the "wait and see" mode with FE but im also not gonna let them get away with lazt game design either.

just to be first  this is my  want/need list from the beta exit

it was prety much a given that the overly huge travel times are continuing to be  a crippling hinderance to gameplay and if they didnt rectify it in beta that sometime in the future we would see some half assed  "pod porting" type of insta travel  its sad really.

there are many critical systemic problems  that will markedly  hinder enjoyable game play and untill they are effectivly addressed  they will continue to be  lost points in FALLEN EARTHS  "good game column

FALLEN EARTH  has potential  and I really like the theory behind the crafting and harvesting system  but the  things on my list "among others" kept me from "going live" even though aftermath is one of my favored genera's

a few things still on my list...

water ditch in monkeytown water is a non interactable mass and its easy to get stuck between the sides of a ditch and the water
travel times overly long (steam train)
costume clothing / clothing toggles
crafting que
radiation barrier defined more obvious,, with rad meter clicker
vehicles need vehicle physics (jumping)
horse population gonna be a problem after release as in 100+ horses standing in oil
repeatable quests not identified
need grenage physics includes the poisons and acids
need shotgun physics not slug
shotgun damage out of wach 410 is the smallest NOT the bigest (12,20,410)
factions are wattery and have no unique contrast.
no player chat channels
no tiered clan bank security
need more player choice in crafting dyeing or other customizations like a blue mororcycle or green berret or spicy chicken (vs normal chicken)
no /follow command
no /drag command

I would have to say even though steam train and shotguns are important to me,, I would have to say the number 1 thing that needs to be addressed is the vehicle physics
 

I havent had the fortune to play most of these  but I have played COH/COVand making a charactor was for the most part more interesting than the actual  content   which I call "THUG BASHING"   which to me felt very grindy and repetitive  and definatly did not feel very heroic   I wanted to rescue people from burning buildings  stop an astroid headed for the planet  hell even getting a cat from a tree lol.

********

I might also put STAR WARS GALAXIES  in this list   everyone knows of its EPIC FAIL  I think that if sony really got serious  and steped back and look at all the errors  and really addressed all the issues  in a remake  that it could be a big scifi contender.

get away from all that procedural crap and the generic spawn generators   and make quests and content relevant and immersive  and the players will come.   dont dumb it down!   dont say your adding a spece expansion and then players find out its a glorified x-wing arcade!   have some balls  (on my little pet peeve  you didnt need to drink WATER on tatooine  it was only used for medicine??? bleh!  my example of  crafting as an afterthought to the world.

**********

next on my list would be EVE ONLINE   this game has its little nitch   ind is  prety serious at the economy  but its still old and lacking in many reguards   its planets and systems are nice but procedurally generic  there for the most part  just scenery and have no play in the game  no fighting to claim them, no ground battles or orbital bombardment  and no planetary resources (the commodities are abstract creations)   the universe is lager 5000 + 2500 systems now i think  but there is no insintive to explore  if anything  its far too lethal to even try  because  they have HARD CORE FREE FOR ALL PVP  which is a casual players NOMANS LAND 

My suggestion would be to update and improve the solar systems and add semi unique space objects    overhaul their painfully stark misson system,, and  limit PVP so casual players have more freedom   EVE2 would probably exceed 1 million players in a month or so. the biggest reason im not playing EVE right now is that  PVP is not how I want to enjoy eve   and you cant excape it ieven in empire space they will "WARDEC" on non-combat  corps  which effectivly destroys them  in short order.

there has allready been a mass exodus from EVE  into LIMBO   and when STAR TREK ONLINE goes live   if its half as good as players expect  the current EVE population will drop by as much as 1/3 or more leaving the hard core PVP jerks to go play with themselves. 

no lastly a game that only bairly made it out of the gate  SEED  had a great story idea   but bitterly TERRIBLE development

the story is that you wake up on a crashed  teraforming coliny ship  your ship is seriously damaged many things need repair, and you have no idea what awaits you outside  this theme has so much potential  it really needs someone to give it a real effort

you can spend the first part of the game just keeping the ship from exploding  and getting life support working, finding food stores and equipment  and getting the lights to stop flickering, then if that isnt enough you have several possibilities  build an outpost, try to salvage the teraforming gear  decide to bake a base underground, go exploring  the number if mysteries and unknowns is enormous not to menton if there are anamals or aliens or even other colonies,, not even the color of the sky or planets or the climate is known  its a whole new world to explore   sounds fun to me!

Ive been a mmo player now for ... well must be 20 years  and there are alot of games that say they are the "next evolution" in gaming  but  sadly are all the same.

sure we want some things to stay the same  Im prety happy with the controls I commonly use in LOTRO  where i can cross control between my mouse and keyboard  but it seems that every game that comes out is built in some form of isolation bubble  and makes the same mistakes or reinvents the wheel  time and time again.

lets take lord of the rings online for example..  nice base controls i my opinion  but they have yet to master  resizeable windows in the UI  most anoying   

I also go more globaly  the auction houses are WRECKING MMOS  a single auction sure might be easy for the devs   but its a crippling feature for games as price fixing and gold farming are assured   wanna buy a new pair of pants for your low level alt?  better be ready to plop down 2 gold  and the only way to do this if yor hot a high level raider  id visa or mastercard.  and if you post some ore for a low price  someone wiill buy it and re sell it for their own higher price  and these AH have no price historys built in so they cant see that ore had been purchassed for 1/10 what it is priced at now (if your gonna have a AH you need to have statistics)

what they need is to diversify  the merchants   have every town have a designated merchant and each player can post say 5-6 items  (they can buy more slots)   this means that each town has a bit of isolation   it is more difficult to price fix   I also say let guilds of a certain size also have their own vender  

what I am saying is that some things we want to remain the same  and some things we want more innovation

lets take the AI BRAIN  as far as im concerned there still using the same AI brain they used back in everquest  this is like using model-T wheels  on a porche  in areas such as this  its obvious that developers are  coasting similar areas are in questing  and  generic mob spawn generators. Why must you come into a game and get the  "kill 10 spiders" from a vending machine NPC   and then you go out and kill the spiders  only to have them respawn 3 minutes later  there are better ways  there are many tricks that can be employed such as overlaping, competing spawns    imbeded quests

I really hate upper end games because there all the same.. they are reduced to PVP or raiding  and the inevidable  "PIT-O-MOBS"  devs seem to think that "chalanging" means adding more hitpoints to the proverbial rat  instead of making the rat smarter   instances put me to sleep.

lets take AGE OF CONAN  what I expected was a more raw, rugged immersive game play,, what I got was more of the same WOW like game play just with exceedingly high graphics requirements  WOW to me is the bench test for this specific form of simplistic, arcade like brainless game play and untill game makers get out of the box (as far as content goes) they are allways going to be measured up against the BOSS of this type of game build.

there are only so many ways you can cook oatmeal  if you dont want it compared to quaker oatmeal  than  cook up some eggs and toast.

Originally posted by kb056

 As far as the "same old, Same old" when it comes to missions, guess what, every game that will ever be made will have those. There simply arent other ways to make quests that can encompass all players without giving an advantage to a specific type of class.

If you can come up with quests that are different that dont offer advantages to certain classes or specs fell free to post them.

If you really think about it, there arent really any other ways to do quests.

well thats horse poo

they do these because they are easy, probably pre caned  macros

go kill mob _______ and bring me ____________

there are many ways that they can create content  they just choose not to  and the dumb down console players just let thenm get away with it.

thats why they have been using the same AI brain for the last 15 years  I call it the simplton AI  but there are others like the AGENT AI      they have been even  testing AIs for trees and grass growing based on a priority system ,, are the conditions right,, is the population too large allready?  is there enough food and water?  ect.  and even mother bears   am i in danger,  am I hungry,  is my cub in danger,  and so forth

have you ever heard of public works projects  like building a bridge or wall or moat  where many people participate at many levels?

ok how about symbiotic communities? where the player helps a village  and as the village grows  it has more to offer the player in return  better buildings, better merchants,  better defences,

how about overlaping competing spawns? What this means is that when you go through with your charactor  your goal may be to beat back brigands  but the next person through  may have to deal with orcs or goblins  this helps foster a NON- static universe  while still  keeping content for new players.

these are just a few possibilities.

Originally posted by weeskwee

going off other interviews and dev comments, they plan expansions every 3-4 months, each adding a new 15 level sector to the game. the final plan is supposedly 10 sectors total, each covering a 15 level range. max level cap is 150. rumor is the game will expand up to ruined Las Vegas. not unlike the upcoming Fallout 3 stand-alone expansion.

also read a comment a couple weeks back that sector 4 is nearly done, and they are busy working on sector 5. plus early work on sector 6. they have a smaller team so it will take a while to get all that done. but at least now you know they ARE working on new content and have it planned for a long time to come.

after following fallen earth for so long  I can tell you I would be suprised if they got more than 1 new zone out per year and even then the zones feel generic      Im not saying this game couldnt be totally awesome,  but what I am saying is that it isnt right now  it feels more like a developer student  cut and paste project    and the use of a virus  instead of major nukes  leaves the world feeling  rather unremarkable  most places you cant tell that its an aftermath universe except fot the occasional  over sized creature or  zombie.

Originally posted by Oyjord

I was a long time beta tester, and though I really wanted to like the game, I couldn't get over the targeting system.  It sadly was a deal breaker for me.  If I wanted to play a console game or FPS, I'd play those.  MMORPGs are SUPPOSED to be different games.

 

Sadly, FE's twitch cross-hair combat just isn't for me (esp. in a game with PvP).  The day they give me tab/locked targeting is the day I subscribe.

that is very true  its definatly not a polished combat system,, you have to enter combat mode and aim to hit targets  but they have anoying things like localized grass that  blocks your ability to hit low things like snakes and ants  and they have  oodles of  combat moves and mutation powers ect  but its exceedingly hard to actually use them in combat    and there is VERY little to deal with multiple enemies     like the shotgun  is a single target  weapon  and is a very poor weapon even against   dogs and zombies ect where you would think it would excell,, same for grenades   there mechanics is so hard and alien they are effectivle unused  this includes acids and poisons  (there basicly a type of grenade too)

ya this guy is great!  didnt he use to do PR for sadam?  you know the guy,, the one that said iraqi forces had driven the americans into the sea  as M1 tanks were basicly in the background driving into bagdad :P

my short review

this has little to offer a veteran player,, the overall game is a bit striped down and unfinished

many of the pyhsics engines are outright missing  like vehicles  they are ground huggers  and no ability o customize vehicles.

there is no grenade physics or shotgun physics  this means grenades dont work like you would think a grenade is supose to work  and a shotgun isnt a shotgun its actually a slow large bore rifle.

there are many quality control errors that were never addressed  like there are 3 types for every ammo in the game

so you got a medium rifle  you could have 3 different types of the exact same ammo taking up precious inventory space  and if you have a pistol thats 3 more  shotgun 3 more  stupid.

factons have a great premice but its in name only  factons are basicly all the same,, example  your anti tech tree hugging vistas still ride the same bikes and buggys as everyone else   most people go enforcer because guns are the primary combat mode and they are also centrally located  oh yess crossbows become obsolete at skill 60 or about level 15 another very stupid move for an aftermath game

the PVP is very flat and simplistic  basicly a gun and knife fight   there are no  mines or mortars or cantapults or  flame cannons  or anything that would make combat PVP interesting  and vehicle weapons are pathetic at best.

the costume clothing system,, they have a wide asortment of costume clothing but they begin becoming obsolete as soon as you exit the spasn tutorial  as they use a stat clothing system they also do not have ANY clothing toggles  so by the time your in S2  or S3  your wearing whatever armor is required for your given level.

the world itself feels like your basic unreal world construct  at star wars galaxy time frame  the performance was still prety low  11-14 fps  when i should have been getting 30-40

the higher you go in level the more stark and unfinished the zones

the water in gme is artifical and uninteractable so you can get stuck between the water and the edge of a ditch

the travel distances are horrible and very seriously effect many aspects of game play like grouping and even the auction (who wants to travel 20 minutes just to check the AH?) 

there are some redeaming features

best day night cycle ive encountered  as in true looking sky and stars

rifle scopes are great!  a must have on a rifle

the crafting and the forragables,salvagables,mineables are TOP NOTCH  while I have some small problems with the system  it has a great foundation.  need more player input than the precaned recipies.

my recomendation is revisit this game in 6mo or a year and see if they corrected these defects

a few things still on my list...

water ditch in monkeytown
travel times overly long (steam train)
costume clothing / clothing toggles
crafting que ability to pause one and craft another (shift priorities)
radiation barrier defined more obvious,, with rad meter clicker
vehicles need vehicle physics (jumping)
horse population gonna be a problem after release as in 100+ horses standing in oil
repeatable quests not identified
need grenage physics includes the poisons and acids
need shotgun physics not slug
shotgun damage out of wach 410 is the smallest NOT the bigest (12,20,410)
factions are wattery and have no unique contrast.
no player chat channels
no tiered clan bank security
need more player choice in crafting dyeing or other customizations like a blue mororcycle or green berret or spicy chicken (vs normal chicken)
no /follow command
no /drag command
ability to abort a loot or harvest by moving (foward)
if i had to pick the most critical for game it would be vehicle physics and customization,, even though the train and shotguns are important to me.
 

fletching would be for any  bow or crossbow

they are consumables  used in place of the standard default shot

once the 20  say... frost arrows  are used up  then it foes back to the default shot

you could have extra damage arrows,, or  extended range arrows   just to name a few

what other craft would you sugest  in a MMO with a combat based economy?  pottery?   basket weaving?  candle making?

Id actually like to see animal raising  but like thats gonna happen!

as for slippery ice   forochel is  nothing but white colored dirt!   same for misty     you would be SUPRISED how much fun it is sliping and sliding around on slippery ice,, but i think that every zone should have some side attraction    because when you finish most of the quests in forochel.. man that place is DEAD!  it has no FURTHER USE   and its really bad to have DEAD ZONES  like everquest commons  where its rare to ever see another player.  new people come in and see how DEAD it is and quickly leave.

you need to have  projects and hobbies that players can work on that isnt bound by time or level

how about  water slides in moria?   or  an orecart (rollercoaster) taxi ride?

mountain climbing  even tree climbing for mirkwood.

use your imagination.