No, he is right. The game went Gold the moment real money started changing hands via item shop. You dont wipe when that happens, regardless of exploits or bugs.

IN this case, calling the game Open Beta is just an excuse to write off severe issues that will be seen in a rushed launch...because thats what it is. A rushed launch. They know the quality isnt up to par either.

Originally posted by sexypanda198
I can understand you disgust with F2P cash games but why neverwinter man i mean some of us want to see our D&D succeed. If you said this about some mmo like say Heroes of the dead "yes it's made up" then i'd be all supportive.

Are you kidding? This is an insult to D&D, by wishing this crap to do well, you set the standard for future D&D games.
Whats more amazing is that Cryptic even got the license to make a D&D game to begin with.

It is clear that those who designed the game either lack talent or funding because Neverwinter is a joke in every sense of the word. I am a huge D&D fan and this ...whatever it is, is not D&D. Its another cryptic pos using a known name/brand to sell an under developed shoddy game. Thats their strategy.

I dont know why anyone would want to support the developers for what was clearly going to be a bad product.

The two big warning signs were: free 2 play (instead of buy 2 play)  and Cryptic.

Cryptic's track record is horrible. Everything after City of Heroes was garbage, champions online was soso. They have become known for crappy quality and cheap means to suck money out of their player base.

For starters they shouldnt have even been given such an amazing franchise. Its like giving expensive painting supplies to a 4 year old who just wipe it all over the wall with their grubby little paws.

I know its harsh, but whats happening with this is just sad. Sad for the franchise and sad for the quality of gaming.

Originally posted by Joejc7135

Damn this thread has become disgusting. Whiny hater after whiny hater crying his eyes out about clerics and maces. Christ who cares actually? Go play the pen and paper version or the other mmo they made. Nothing worse then the "book is better" type of people. I mean really...im not doubting the book is better, but you aren't better then me because you read it and I didn't

Neverwinter is a free game with the OPTION to pay. Be grateful you got anything at all snot nosed brats. Seriously.....#FIRSTWORLDPROBLEMS

I know right, god forbid a franchise is actually well consistent.

And isnt it great, that these developers went out of their way, from the goodness of their hearts, to make a free game. Its not like they are payed to make product in which to profit from. No, clearly because its free, it is something they give us out of kindness and morality.

Snot nosed brats...those are the worst arnt they? Its not like there are other developers here, game artist and other industry folk who have negative opinions about a bad product... no certainly they cannot exist. They are really just snot nosed brats, obviously. Gawd forbid any around your age, who has a professional skillset and experience tied to the entertainment industry has anything to say about consistency within a game franchise.

If you havent gotten it yet, the joke is on you. Calling people snot nosed brats while implying that a free to play business model is some sort of charity is just comical.

You say who cares? Well you do obviously or else you wouldnt be here arguing so desperately over the subject...even to the point of calling people snot nosed brats.

To make it more comical you try end your little rant with hashtag mimicry that reveals ignorance on your part.

I do have a news flash for you though, games and especially games based on long established franchises as a selling point, are open to both PRAISE and Criticism. You cant pick and chose with one can only be present. Now theres a first world reality for ya.

Originally posted by Ligi

More options to gamer , more power.

Games like Neverwinter, Secret World and others Free to Play are raising the bar on the mmorpg world which was quite frozen with WoW controlling the market (which will keep doing for the near future but now there are more interesting options).

The consequences are promising, you have more and more games going to free to play ( today Rift announced  FTP) and from now on any company will think twice before releasing a game with subscription.

I hope the future brings games with subscription, but with unparalleled quality. 

False, more option do not equate more power, whatever "power" is supposed to mean.

Options are moot if they are bad. You can have 10 bad choices and those will never be better for someone than 3 great choices.

Games like neverwinter are not raising the bar. They are dropping it. Secret world was intended to be a p2p but it failed. Saying it raised the bar means you ignored all the previous p2p games that went f2p. Have you bothered to try playing Vanguard saga of heroes? Old game but still far better than Neverwinter in terms of quality options, gameplay and in many ways graphics as well.

f2p is also bad for a games design, meaning you will get less quality over all. Why? Because the design has to be based around getting money out of a player, not actual fun gameplay. When a designer doesnt need to worry about coercing money from the player, they can focus on challenge mechanics that are fun and immersive. When the publisher tells them to design around item shops, then good game design takes the back seat and the focus is always limited by the item shop and cutting corners to spend as little in development time as possible.

The only thing we see is another push for player generated content, and right now Valve is leading that crusade.

But the game is easily, by definition, "fail".

They have succeeded in doing NOTHING well...

Environment art? Horrible. Badly tiled textures, lack decent spec and normal maps, if any at all.

Character models? Gawd awful. Looks like they were from 10 years ago and done by interns.

Simple minded 1 weapon classes? Extreme Fail. There is no excuse for that. None. They didnt want to put the time and effort in, or they were incapable of designing classes and the combat to go with them.

Every aspect of the game screams "amateur". Cryptic might as well have hired high school kids with no experience to make it because thats what it looks and feels like.

It is a slap in the face to the franchise, the fans and the genre. Any developer who worked on this title should and would be embarrassed.

How far cryptic has fallen.

None of this ^ is an exaggeration. The game truly is horrible, and as we have seen time and time again... kids and their f2p behaviors will result in this game getting praise and then quickly forgotten for the next f2p game they squeel off to.

You have to be kidding me.

[zone] Cleric: Great a D&D game, where can I get a mace and shield.

[zone] Other player: Clerics cant use those!

[zone] Cleric: ....... wat? no it says right here, Neverwinter... D&D, Forgotten Realms... Everyone knows Clerics are front line fighters with blunt weapons and shields...

[zone] Other player: pfft... thats stupid. Clerics shoot magical arrows out of metal mirror things with chains on them..duh!

[zone] Cleric: .... die!

Neverwinter is one of the worst mmorpgs I have seen in recent years, and to make it worse..it totally spits in the face of what defines D&D. The art is bad, character models are bad, textures are bad, environment art is gawd awful...  gameplay is mediocre and extremely limited at best.

The only interesting aspect of the game is the foundry, and if the game sucks well..then theres no point in the foundry to begin with.

There is no logical way anyone can say this turd is a polished diamond...much less fools gold.

How could Cryptic/PW get the license to make a D&D game is beyond me, but they already proven they shouldnt have it...at all. 

Regardless of business model, the quality of the game is just horrible.

I think for a D&D game, especially one trying to fit into the forgotten realms universe, they have the tone right ..but character models, environment art, design..ect are amateur at best. Its kind of sad really, and there is much to be a slap in the face to anyone who follows the setting. The classes are just so streamlined and dumbed down its not even funny. Dont get me started on clerics and how they are portrayed in Neverwinter.

The best part of the game is the fact that they are at least trying to include player generated content, but thats all for moot if the rest sucks.

Originally posted by tuppe99

I admit that I have not been following GW2 at all since I was busy levelling up in MoP, but now since it has been 3 months since I unsubbed WoW, I am looking for a new home.

I am a casual player and an explorer by heart and I love doing my own thing in my own time. I don't have time for raids and will rarely do any group dungeons.

So, does this game have:

1.) Reputation grinding

2.) Mandatory daily quests (I hate dailies)

3.) Is there content for when I want to go off the beaten path?

4.) Are professions fun and viable? Crafting is usually my main source of gear since I don't do dungeons

5.) Sometimes I like just to grind mobs for loot and money. Is that viable?

6.) Is this a world that I can "live" in, do my own thing or am I always part of a greater story?

 

Thanks!

1. It has grind, though instead of reputation its either gold or currency items which serve the same mechanic as reputation. In fact most of the game at the end is grind. Grind certain events just to get a chest, grind markers on maps to get chests and accomplishments, grind jumping puzzles to get daily chest, grind matts so you can make legendary weapons, grind currency so you can buy those things to make your character unique or better. Grind dungeons for dungeon specific currency, grind karma for karma vendors...

Like any game you DONT have to do this, but if you dont you really have nothing else to do that developers your character and if you think pvp is the other option...well with ascended gear you have to grind for that to, because depsite what some say...it does give the advantage.

2. Daily Quests...yes there are dailys and monthlies. If you grind 1 daily (which is like 5 quest goals combined) you get karma and 1 laurel (which is another currency). If you want an acendant item from a laurel merchant, it cost 35 laurels. So you need to do 35 straight dailies just for one item (35 days worth)...OR you can do a monthly which rewards you with 10 laurels. Of course Monthlies are just like dailies but take much longer. (kill 100 vetran mobs, do 25 jumping puzzles...ect)

Its all time sink.

3. The world is littered with events, though they are nearly almost always the same variation of the same thing. Most assets are reused through the game so, so yeah theres some stuff off the beaten path...but then is there really such a thing? each zone is just a container, you can run around in it and see most of the same stuff or variations of it. Events are just quests thats location specific rather than character specific. The claim that they are dynamic and have consequences for the game world and zone are mostly just false. its hype. The most it will do is have some enemies occupy an outpost and shut off a way point...but this is rare.

The lack of traditional quests keeps it minimal with little to no good reward. Skills and abilities are automatically given as you level up and acquire skill points to spend... so any growth or new ability (much less item) has no real quest associated with it.

4. Fun is subjective...but they are not all that varied. I dont think they are as fun as they could be since your gameplay pattern doesnt change over the course of the game much. You unlock weapon skills just by using them, and it only takes a few minutes. You will only be given 5 skills to use from lvl 1-80 for those weapons and not all classes have a variety of them.

There is really no reason at this point to play any class other than a Warrior since it uses the most weapons and just kills everything. Instead of nerfing warriors, Anet buffs them and yet nerfs the classes which are underpowered or badly designed.

Typical mmo behavior it seems.

You also dont have a mana bar, so if a skill is available you can use it. This means you have little to no resource management challenge mechanics taking place for the profession.

5. Yes you can do that. Though the loot you get wont be entirely exciting. The most that can happen is you get a rare (yellow) item, but those are not really special at this point. Most are just duplicates of other items, and you can find them cheap on the trade post..so the main purpose they serve is for selling for a few silver or salvaging for crafting mats.

In vanilla WoW, there was always a chance a mob could drop a rare purple item. That kept the grind somewhat exciting because you really didnt know what you would get. That feeling is lost in GW2. 99% of the time loot you get is just sold for gold, which gets you anything you want on the TP.

Or you can buy gems and turn them into gold with real money.

6. You are part of a greater story, but its weakly implimented outside of the personal story line, which is decent but still under developed and often repetative.

Despite all this....I still think you should get and play GW2. For some odd reason its still a fun time sink thats fun to come back to whenever you get bored...and it doesnt cost you anything.

Originally posted by observer

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

Originally posted by Kuppa

So, adding silly things for EVENTS to around 10% of the game "ruined the game's art direction"? Have you met the asura yet btw?

What part of my post is confusing you?

I am not strictly talking about the super adventure box meta event, I thought this was made clear twice already. It's respectful to other posters to exhibit some form of reading comprehension as opposed to confirmation bias.

Personally I love the Super Adventure Box satire event, but thats besides the point.

Speaking as a CG artist, the moment you add over the top gags which clearly have no place in the universe, tone of the universe, art direction and concept, the effect is ruined. Any immersive state, visually, which ties together with the said concept is tossed out the window, especially when you the viewer/player readily becomes aware of said assets conflicting with the tone of the original design.

I would be curious to see if the DD (design document) and lore included such gags in them originally.

Anyways, think of it like this. Imagine going to a horror noir film, a tone is set and half way through the flick one of the actresses turns into a bright and colorful anime character which shoots rainbows out of their ears and flys around on magical cupcakes. The viewer is giving two conflicting tones, by this act immersion is lost as the viewer becomes aware of it, creating a form of alienation. The viewer can still be entertained, but the tone of the film is ruined and immersion via emotional response has to come from something else after the come to terms with this visual change.

The whole epic theme and tone, especially via the concept art, has been forgotten in favor of image saturation, gag and satire items, and inconsistent universal content. Again this is FINE, but the player then has to acknowledge that the tone of the game changes entirely.

 

I understand your complaints, but you're nitpicking here.  You claim it destroys the tone, but you fail to realize that it's for one month out of the year.  These 8 bit creatures won't be in the world all year long.  Your complaints about the weapon skins are trivial too.  They actually fit the tone of asura's art, so it's a stretch to claim that weapon skins also ruin the tone.  Let's take the super shield skin as an example.  It has an in-game "alphabet" on it, conforming to the tone you think is ruined.

Your analogy to a film doesn't work either, because a film isn't an interactive medium, whereas a video game is, especially an MMO, where things are always changing in real time.

Again I think you are not reading or comprehending my post. I am NOT complaining about super adventure box. I love it.

I did NOT say the inclusion of it alone is ruining the games art direction, but that they chose to fill their game with image saturated "skins" and assets outside of the direction and tone of the game. Thus complaining about super adventure box at this point is moot. Do you understand what that means? They have done worse already so it doesnt matter at this point. They chose to fill their game with image saturation and gag content over the concept and art direction.

Stating it lasts only for a month is also moot. Why? Ask yourself if the skins will exist after the 30 day period? They will, thus it doesnt leave the game.

Personally I think if they are going to go this direction, gagging out the game and being silly about it...then they should just keep all content open, whether it be holloween dungeons or super adventure box portals...at least this way theres more time sink based "content" to pick from at any given point in time.

Also my film analogy works, because tone and setting exist in both film and interactive entertainment. Because a game state can change doesnt mean the art direction and tone changes. In film, illustrators and concept artist have to go through much of the same process as game developers in preoduction, it is the foundation for what follows.

WoW has remained consistent for the most part with the visual themes and setting the made for themselves, granted they changed a bit of the story from the warcraft rts lore, but each addition generally fits int othe game and any meta events for holidays generally dont have any lasting value or seem entirely out of place. The point again is interactive entertainment, even mmorpgs, are not exempt from the same aspect of consistency.

Originally posted by Kuppa

So, adding silly things for EVENTS to around 10% of the game "ruined the game's art direction"? Have you met the asura yet btw?

What part of my post is confusing you?

I am not strictly talking about the super adventure box meta event, I thought this was made clear twice already.

Personally I love the Super Adventure Box satire event, but thats besides the point.

Speaking as a CG artist, the moment you add over the top gags which clearly have no place in the universe, tone of the universe, art direction and concept, the effect is ruined. Any immersive state, visually, which ties together with the said concept is tossed out the window, especially when you the viewer/player readily becomes aware of said assets conflicting with the tone of the original design.

I would be curious to see if the DD (design document) and lore included such gags in them originally.

Anyways, think of it like this. Imagine going to a horror noir film, a tone is set and half way through the flick one of the actresses turns into a bright and colorful anime character which shoots rainbows out of their ears and flys around on magical cupcakes. The viewer is giving two conflicting tones, by this act immersion is lost as the viewer becomes aware of it, creating a form of alienation. The viewer can still be entertained, but the tone of the film is ruined and immersion via emotional response has to come from something else after the come to terms with this visual change.

The whole epic theme and tone, especially via the concept art, has been forgotten in favor of image saturation, gag and satire items, and inconsistent universal content. Again this is FINE, but the player then has to acknowledge that the tone of the game changes entirely.

Originally posted by L0C0Man

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

They have already ruined the game's art direction, so getting uptight over super adventure box is moot at this point. They were already pushing it with unicorn rainbow long bows and 70s disco weapons, but the additional items and skins added to the game already says they dont take the setting, lore and art direction seriously.

At this point its just a whatever they want kind of game, no visual immersion needed. The user experience they want to give now is more of a joke and cheap gameplay mechanics than anything else.

I feel bad for the writers and artist that actually took the game and its setting seriously.

I don't know, the super weapon skins to me look exactly like the kind of things Asuras would do, personally I see them as fitting the current lore of the game more than the moot (the disco ball mace), for example, or the dreamer (the unicorn bow).

Thats why I pointed out that any complaint over super adventure box is kind of moot at this point.

Also its not just skins, but in the world the enemies from the game are in the actual GW2 world itself. So far i have been attacked by "8bit" monkeys, snakes and rabits while running around some Charr zones.

I'm used to seeing a lot of people complain about WoW or insult it for that matter when it comes to over the top armor and weapons which glow. Honestly GW2 beat them in that department and now any skin and armor piece is not really restricted by the art direction. The universe has been dumbed out to the extent where "fun" and gag graphics are part of the game world. It leaves the impression anything can happen.

Who knows whats next...Sailor Moon outfits and space ships. At this point any care they had for crafting the universe has been destroyed in favor of image saturation and gags. Which is fine if thats what they wanted to turn their game into, but its hard to take it seriously at this point. Usually it just gets worse from there.

Originally posted by observer

Originally posted by Rabenwolf

They have already ruined the game's art direction, so getting uptight over super adventure box is moot at this point. They were already pushing it with unicorn rainbow long bows and 70s disco weapons, but the additional items and skins added to the game already says they dont take the setting, lore and art direction seriously.

At this point its just a whatever they want kind of game, no visual immersion needed. The user experience they want to give now is more of a joke and cheap gameplay mechanics than anything else.

I feel bad for the writers and artist that actually took the game and its setting seriously.

Oh silly me... and here i thought April Fool's Day was a super serious holiday for worship.

Oh silly you indeed.

I dont recall talking strictly about whats going on during the month of april. Perhaps you think the skins will expire after april? Your whole retort, including your choice of wording (worship) tells me you just havent understood a thing I typed and who its responding to.

They have already ruined the game's art direction, so getting uptight over super adventure box is moot at this point. They were already pushing it with unicorn rainbow long bows and 70s disco weapons, but the additional items and skins added to the game already says they dont take the setting, lore and art direction seriously.

At this point its just a whatever they want kind of game, no visual immersion needed. The user experience they want to give now is more of a joke and cheap gameplay mechanics than anything else.

I feel bad for the writers and artist that actually took the game and its setting seriously.

You know, i want to criticize anet for "wasting" precious development time on this april fools joke, when they could have been working on serious content and fixing the game...

But I cant... the super adventure box is just too awesome! Even the NES like advertisement is awesome!

The only question I have now is, with the Charr being one of the least played races, I wonder why anet keeps using them for marketing material and figurines (CE edition).

Originally posted by Karteli

I don't think there is enough of a budget to do much for this game, other than occasional events, with new items in the cash shop.  Shrug, I haven't logged into GW2 in over a month, and I'm not very excited about the Christmas event either.  Halloween was a huge letdown (other than the artwork which was nice).  Brawling anyone? /puke

It is the exact opposite actually. The budget depends upon what the publisher/primary owner will give. In this case NC Soft. NC Soft's most successful current title is GW2, which has sold well over 2 million copies. The business model for GW2 is not only a cash shop, but the frequent release of expansion packs which add new content and features.

Events are usually created and run by a small team dedicated to keeping the game fresh inbetween the bigger content updates and xpack development.

Instead of being irrationally pesimistic, lets focus on the objective information present as well as how the industry actually works. GW2 is one of NC Softs biggest franchises and they are not gonna let that go to waste.

This isnt saying the game will necessarily get better, as that is all subjective, but that it will continue to be heavily developed.

Originally posted by Zeppelin5083

Originally posted by lucasdeis
just try swtor. it doesn't matter what the people say, just try it and see for yourself

I am bud, I believe I listed that. Working a Jedi Guardian through the 30's now. Just getting a bit tired of the grind. Enjoying the community from what I've seen so far though, but it seems small as MMO's go.

The primary issue here is that mmorpgs are gonna be grindy no matter what. The reasoning is that their design mechanics, mainly in the form of gameplay are usually the same as well as simplistic. NPCs/mobs cannot have more expensive patterns in their design and behavior, so a mob at low lvl is the same generally speaking at high lvl. It is easy to get bored of this pattern fast.

The grind is then a means to force the player to invest more time, aka time sink, into the game, becaues the gameplay isnt developed enough to warrant a long hours of unique play.

NO matter what, in a mmorpg you will face grind, until they develop something different. Outside of pvp and player to playe interaction, I havent seen a deviation from this.

Given that much info, I wouldnt suggest you need a mmorpg as much as you want something to waste time in, something you can waste time in that doenst seem boring or similar after a few days.

That said, there are a few games out there that have generally kept me entertained from anywhere around 100-300 hours of play. One of my favorites, and the one I am recommending here and now is X3    http://store.steampowered.com/sub/12985/  (many hours of freeform gameplay, great AI, huge mod and content making community, years of mods and content worth adding)

It is NOT a mmorpg, but it will feel like one.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by Loke666
2 things: I dont mind that something like this is in the game, there are plenty of sickening sweet things in fantasy. But that said, my ranger wouldnt want to be cought dead with that bow.

Can't you just move the legendary stats to any bow model you like?  I thought that was the whole purpose of the transmuter coins we get.

Thats in part the problem. Its not about the stats because lengendarys, even exotics are not much better stat wise than other same level gear. The only reason to grind for any end game content is the skin (visuals) and nothing more.

Originally posted by Apropo

I should have known fom "potenial" that you wouldn't even comprehend the agreeable reply you recieved and assume it was directed specifically at you...  

Nobody accused you of "Rushing" anything try reading the response again... Infact I'm the only person who pointed out "Rushing" but it wasn't directed at you, infact was AGREEing with you.  It seems you need a hug or to chill out.   Instead of jumping to conclusions because someone typed the words "RUSH" and "YOU" in a sentance, don't assume they are speaking specifically about YOU as an individual but rather, YOU as a mass of people.  As in YOU people.  

 

How many hours have you played /age? and how much global map completion do you have? Those two things will greatly indicate if everything I wrote about "Rushing" does infact fit.  and your response about map completion is totally wrong.  This game is ALL about map completion and exploration.  Not the games fault if you play it differently then the designers intended.  And its not the games fault if you expect something from the game that wasn't intended to be there in the first place.  Such as insentive with gear power progression at level 80.

 

In the same vein I dont believe I was responding to you personally.  There was this connotation over all that if you are level 80, and have finished the personal storyline, AND have gotten crafting up that you are some how rushing the game. I do not  believe you can rationally suggest it was otherwise.

That said you do not help much less contribute when you assume and go on the offensive. The fact you try to include belittling remarks and show case a confirmation bias does your feedback/opinion in this thread a disservice.

Furthermore please tell me where arena net specifically states "this game is all about map completion"?

I can tell you that they said this, and I quote, "GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun;" before launch and after launch they said the opposite.

They also said this"When you play an RPG, you want to experience a compelling and memorable storyline. You want your choices to matter. You want your actions to leave their mark on the world. Let’s start demanding those things of MMOs too."...and I agree. Lets demand that for Guild Wars 2. The storyline has the potential but its over all execution and polish were not up to par. It is clear it didnt meet the milestone the studio set out to accomplish prior to release.

If you read the GW2 Manifesto released by Arena Net, it does not once mention map completion as an important part of the game or philosophy. Why is that? Because its part of their achievement system and achievements are not content, they are time sinks...usually used for titles or a virtual check list for those who are interested in such things.

You can keep calling me wrong if you want, but Ill just have to agree to disagree...especially given the objective information provided by Anet and its design philosphy...as well as what they said they were going to achieve and what they actually delivered...which are quite extreme. It is still a great game, but flawed and through playing the game normally, based on my own experiences, presented both as observation and opinion, I was able to come to a different conclusion on the state of the game as well as its design from which I originally had.

This may bother some who have a strong emotional response tied to the game and or their identity which is linked to the game and or franchise/brand loyalty.