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All Posts by citadelli

All Posts by citadelli

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35 posts found

SOE has so lost my trust in them as well as many of friends... and 180 a year is stupid for a single game/ or multiple...

"Free to Play Your Way" is a joke.

Nothing free about their games in any way except the hook. Even if you are Gold. I honestly feel bad for the devs who create their stuff.

I'll stick w/ my $50 gifted investment and keep playing the awesome game of GW2. Now at 1.3 years... saved so much money!

Just saying its better built, more fun, and they don't shove SC buys down your throat CONSTANTLY.

See you in BG ;-) Hollow

I think it's kind of an evolution of gaming. As MMO's become more mainstream, they are also reflecting more real life attitudes. Some people like being in a big world with others anonymously but I could see there's a sort of "comfort?" others are around. Some of those like grouping a lot and it's one of their only ways to really socialize given work/family schedules or perhaps social shyness. Also growing demographics.

What I never understood about MMO's was the class restriction thing for the most part. The set in stone you're this... you can hold these weapons and do these things... Why can't a caster class pick up any weapon like a 2 handed hammer and use it? Sure they may be weak and not have agility to use it well, but they still could in real life. Why can't a tailor be a woodworker also?

I can do my job, cook diner, build a fence, fix my car or whatever I want. I may not be good at some of them (caught my Torino on fire 3 times LOL) but I can still try and keep working on it until I'm more proficient or at least complete a project.

I think restrictions should be limited to defining elements such as stats (Int/Sta/Str/Agi etc), racial/ethical - for example as in EQ's certain classes couldn't access certain classes (abilities), such as you couldn't be a High Elf Necromancer.

Unlike my girl friend who is an alt-aholic in every game we've played I keep a small crew. Only to see what play style I like, or research others for pvp. Having more flexibility in a single toon doesn't hinder game play, it just lets you actually get more into the game and make a more holistic and embedded toon. I usually find a style I like and stick with it. I do like other things about others, but don't want to waste my time investing in that - that time doesn't exist to keep max leveling every character type for it to be an efficient toon.

I also think a big portion of the MMO community is an aging one (I KNOW RIGHT?! How did I get to 40?!), and an even larger one is the younger crowd who is even more used to easy mode - (point A to B, when in doubt look it up on Youtube - or like my son skip A and B go straight to Youtube). There's also a large part of communities that are even the older ones (retired etc) than me who like to take it even slower but enjoy the fantasy rich social aspect and have been some of my best virtual friends. 

At least for me on the older side (I think which is still the core of most MMO's - heck UO is still kickin), MMO's are one my biggest social and entertainment outlets. But given family, work, and life responsibilities, time is of a premium and limited.

My current game of choice is GW2 since launch - love it! Play style is pure WvWvW, in one of the top guilds and even command from time to time. For me, I found my own little sweet spot of friends and play style ;-)

I'm probably down to 20 hours a week which is still a part time job! But how much time do non MMO'rs watch TV? To me it's not like a couch potato there's so much more - mental/intel/social and emotional interaction. It's a changing genre.


Wish I could have read the whole review... stupid ad pops from the "hulK" and "dominos" were covering most of it, with no X to close. sigh

UO was my first mmo... so tempted... we'll see.

For most FTP models on a casual basis it's not been my experience it's too important. Unless it's SOE.

I would imagine the original UO would be a perfect port to mobile - its pretty ancient. I saw something about cards, so... not sure there.


Not to mention my bags are mostly all locked now (they're legendary+), and my bank vaults and I can't use any of my plat, because that's all locked beyond any usable level to buy something as well.

Agree you do need to purchase a few extra bag slots in GW2 with gems(SC=) but the ones I do have can be any type or size. Oh! And I can purchase gems with in game gold...! So no worries there ;-) I also don't have restrictions on people sending me stuff either. Oh my this list could go on....

SOE's game model is simply to welcome in new fair-weather players and hope to soak them for a few dollars before they move on. And reward the vets and loyal fans by trying to find more ways to get money out of them. Then take away everything they invested in over the years if they won't keep paying them money for stuff they had already purchased / earned.

It's just sad.

Originally posted by citadelli

I don't know if could take playing a Disney Movie as a game serious...

Looks like it has some nice features.

But probably going to use their horrible business model "FTP" - NOT


"Time has borne out that their F2P model is anything but horrible, and has been a godsend in a lot of ways. It has been quite beneficial to keeping both EQ1 and EQ2 alive and kicking, including the funding of continued development. And for those who just don't want to partake in the cashshop, simply pay for monthly gold member access(same mechanic as the old 'sub'), and you have access to all the content. Meanwhile, the influx of people tinkering around off free accounts before going gold, has kept the revenue rolling.

The cashshop is mostly for fluff and you can simply ignore it without trouble if you want.

Rift made pretty much a direct clone of SoE's model with their cashshop."


I paid $50 for GW2, and haven't had to pay a dime more. No monthly options or requirements, and their version of SC is anything but over developed or "forced". I can also wear any piece of gear at any tier in the game and have NO restrictions once i earned it. Pay once and play. I like that way better.  

Similarly SOE requires new expansions to be purchased. And if you don't pay a monthly sub, you can't even wear the gear you earn... Or even had earned and had worn it... ACK. 

So in EQ2 i have a "naked" Kerra running around w/ top tier Raid gear fully adorned and I can't do a thing.

SOE likes to nickle and dime and try everything they can to make more money out of you. They use you instead of trying to rely on what they have and expand a base of loyal customers.

EQN will actually a blatant abuse of this on a few levels. Just wait and see ;-) They already hinted at it. Just don't be suckers.

Me, I'll play a game the way I want and not worry about that $300 i would be paying to SOE or the other bs stuff.

Disney... Wonder if the Little Mermaid or the beauty and the beast will be there? :-P May Mr. Parkinson rest in peace.

I don't know if could take playing a Disney Movie as a game serious...

Looks like it has some nice features.

But probably going to use their horrible business model "FTP" - NOT


Well that and the 5 posts above ^^^

vs. several hundreds on a start up MMO here. Sorry EQ is dead.... :_( sigh

I have many fond memories of EQ and EQ2. There is only a thriving population if you happen across a cool guild. And the ones left are usually very mature and such, kind of locked in.  And that will usually be dedicated to either gear grinding to raid, or decorating/crafting.

In most ways EQ2 for example has the most robust game play style available bar none. Which has also been SOE's nail in the coffin.  It actually limits player social interaction.  The newer subscription models are off putting at the least, and the "ftp" requirements are a joke - then you have the constant pop ups for this or that and bombardment of real money purchases. Even if you are a full gold member. It just seems so desperate.

I played EQ2 since beta, EQ before that, and only stopped about 8 mos ago. Mostly because I when I have tried to login after dropping gold membership can't do anything because all of my gear is not wearable anymore. Despite that the game is dead. Sadly. It just really is. So disappointing, it has so much to offer. Very rich, very deep, but as an MMO it has just pretty much shut all that down.

I feel sorry for the great devs who have made such an amazing game only to have it nuked by their corporate money grabbers (looking at you Smed :-P). It's all just very off putting to players. I had put well into over 2k towards EQ2 alone during my tenure there, only to see it keep slipping.

My gf got me GW2 for $50 same as EQ2 sells each expansion, and was surprised how big and beautiful that world is. And I've not had to spend a penny more. But have because it was more fun, better and just something I enjoyed.

Compare the population in a major city in the remaining servers of EQ2 to one of the cities in GW2.  A half dozen vs hundreds at the minimum. It's an MMO game after all. And PvP forget about it, crazy fun!

An MMO needs people. That's what makes it fun. Server merge all of EQ2's servers together you still wont see half the active pop you see in any one server on GW2 or that silly WoW game. Sad.

As a last side note I don't even think Sony backs SOE game's. After E3 and the launch of PS4 there has not been a word I've seen for a single SOE game. There is no backing, perfering to highlight Oblivion Online as a feature launch. Nothing about FR, PS2, or EQ in any way... just saying. EQnext was totally thrown aside once GW2 and other games came out.

Despite that, will they ever try to reconnect with the player base again? Or will you all just keep doing what you've been doing and throw more money away on a dead end game?



I'm surprised this review had so many responses tbh. To me the only logical game model as earlier mentioned is not FTP or PtP, as people state. 

But I do think ANet nailed it with GW2. Buy the box and play for free - no limits. Difference being in other "ftp" mmos is you're not being constantly shoved down the throat with real money purchases. It's there yes kind of if that - almost lacking, but the other ftp MMO's have constant in game pop ups, and seem to dev or market more around micro transactions than the actual game. Annoying.

But the game keeps growing and the updates are constant, something good is going on there ;-)



BTW I would say the developers of the EQ Universe are amazing. Talented and passionate. But that only goes so far. Once you get past a UI or sub models, or being spammed w/ new purchases even though you are a full Gold or whatever member... It just becomes distracting to game play, immersion or why you are here. EQ2 for example had the best aspects of so many things....

But for myself and a consumer of that with over 8 years of followship, just seemed like SOE business side totally lost grasp with their audience. 

Look at the numbers. Despite how amazing the products are, their games fail. And slipping more and more all the time. Read my post history to see what a fan boy I was of them.

A couple years ago the mood was different. There was a change or two, and whoops downhill.

Not FtP honestly a good move, but they do it very bad. 

Rely on awesomeness and awesomeness will follow IMO. SOE? Lost it...


Playful fun @ Kuro. SOE has just so burnt my enthusiasm for them which was as long standing customer loyalty for their games over the last couple years.  I enjoyed their products but now they just seem obsolete and just trying to soak the mindless. My opinion only, and those used to be good days for me. Just not what I want to do any more. Not any more after all of the game model changes they made to subs.

Just they act desperate, and none innovative.




So Smed's obsessed w/ cute anime figure's and my Little Pony, makes perfect sense now....

After how long this has been in production, then GW2 comes out and they pull it to completely retool the entire game.... and so on, this seems mediocre at best. Pretty sad teaser IMO. The poor lad pictured doesn't even have a buttocks and a tiny left arm that is closer to the camera - hope they can at least give him some big feet to make up for it :-P

Good luck to them ;-)


4 days and no reply, maybe that's your answer?

EQ2 was my game for years (since beta) I just got so frustrated with it last fall. It was really hard for me because i've always been a passionate player, not hardcore. But that is what the game forces any vet to be now because if you don't raid everything else is so baby land.

Over the last couple years the spamming of SC purchases for cosmetic stuff ended up be the entire focus of the game. These features are actually really cool, but the way they shove it down your throat constantly just seemed almost desperate. Even at gold member status.

From a development aspect the game has so much potential. The stories are good, the features are richer than anything I've seen. From a production standpoint it's just been poorly executed, and the consumers are constantly being milked at every end, especially the veterans paying the sub fee. This has been a negative trend that SOE has implemented to try to get surge income from new players instead of actually building a player base. The populations show this, the game became a waste land, unless you were signed up for high end raid zones or the occasional new zone which forces you to compete with everyone else trying to complete quests etc.

There were also several other fails in pvp based around weaknesses in the platform and programming that I can't imagine is easy. 

I got Guild Wars 2 as a gift as I was about to swear off playing all together. Amazing game. No sand boxing yet like in Eq2, but.... 

1. The game actually doesn't punish you if you are not grouped. ie, you can harvest the same node as someone else, you can run up to an event or mob that another player is hitting and share all of each others buffs and loot w/out being grouped.

2. Even though the graphics are 10x better it still runs smoother than EQ2 even though it's running on a ten year engine. And the game is just beautiful and massive.

3. PVP, yes PVP and good PVP, not open world ganking, you zone to pvp but it's amazingly fun. And World vs World vs World, is insanely fun.

4. Leveling / level. Personally when I made my toon, I never felt a "need" to grind up. The game was so engaging I just played and before I knew it I was max level. Going to zones that are below your level remain challenging... personally I like this a lot. Doing any of the pvp your toon is auto adjusted and you remain competetive. If you don't quite know how to play your character you will have difficulties, being lower level will not give you some skills or extra armor buffs, but it is no way game breaking. Plus there are still a huge amount of things you can do as you learn the game w/out insta death. Either way even at level 80 from launch I only have 40% world discovery, and even with good gear I always find a good challenge in every area I explore.

5. Population - two fold. I might be in an annomaly here because I somehow hooked up with the most amazing guild. We have about 400 some members, that we've been kind of picky about inviting and have a system to root out those that play for a bit then quit. We usually have at least 100 active members on at all times, and usually at least half of that in voice. Living in a PVE server and being a PVP type player mostly, we have a pretty split guild here. Split but active and mostly mature :-P because of the standards the leaders made. But just having made a new "alt" and trying to level in zones i've never seen I still see dozens running around with me in even the most newbie areas, or unusual places or anywhere. And the mechanics are actually inplace to encourage helping those around you. This is what an MMO should be about I never saw in EQ2.

6. FTP. EQ2 now has 6 xps ftp. They are amazing and diverse. Good luck finding a group to roll with though. Once you quickly level up to "relevant" content you will need to purchase that expansion at full price. If you're just with your bud then you probably won't have any problem even doing raid content in legendary gear. GW2 is pay to play, not any different after those free parts. Except GW2 has NO requirements on a monthly sub to have a certain membership level at all. Gear, level, etc. You purchase the disk you are good to roll. And no pressure. In fact GW2 is actually a FTP game (after original purchase) but they do not shove "buy this crap down your throat or else" on top of a monthy sub. They don't even have a monthy sub option. And their version of SC store is actually kind of weak.  I will probably buy the next GW2 Xpac like i did the previous 12? EQ2 ones, but will do it knowing exactly what my purchase was and no strings attached nor a montly payment to actually be able to play it.

7. Fun! It's my personal opinion, the game in GW2 is just more fun and electric.

I love EQ2, i have many fond memories over the last 10 years. I'm not sure how it failed so badly tbh, even before their ftp illusion. Personally i would suggest spending a few dollars to buy GW2 because it will save you hundreds shortly.

EQ2 is now for those that like decorating (I do miss my houses sometimes), you can create your own dungeons if you buy those expansions too which is cool. Unless you make it to the hard core raider you won't find much challenging/fun after a while IMO. 

These are just my opinions.

Citadelli ~ Destroyer of Ordanach


I persionally enjoy the game. Story line is not like George RR Martin by any means, that's a bit extreme for an MMO to be honest, but I've found it enjoyable. Leveling... First MMO i honestly didn't feel like I was trying to level, it just happened, fairly painlessly and decently timed. 

WvW is my favorite part. I understand why some people think it's mindless zerging if they don't look into the entire science and mentality of it, and don't have an active wvw guild community. Mine's not huge maybe 20-30 active at any given time most of them in vent chat. Really changes the dynamic. I couldn't imagine it any other way anymore. It's a blast, and we're a beat up tier two team.  They're relaxed and have no tolerance for exploits. It's just plain fun.

As a guild who has always stuck to our server regardless of ranking, I'm really happy about the added restrictions of server transfers. I think this will honestly be the biggest improvement to the WvW that will have the most impact. I honestly am glad we aren't a tier one server, but I think it will help balance the playing field without seeing extremely dramatic change in power in only a weeks time.

I haven't done too much of the sPVP, but play a ton Wv3 on Tarnished Coast, it's been super fun imo. I think a lot of it does have to do with being in the right kind of guild for you, which I think I am lucky to have found and we have a great time together. I'm also the "crappy" class everyone says is gimped, the Ranger, but still enjoy it, kill more than I die.

I don't know the dynamics of other servers and imagine the different tiers you get placed in each week depending on your rank might create completely different environments. For our server's rank we've been matched with the same other servers I think at least the last 4 weeks running. We've been on top all of those, but barely, and have to give it to the other guys they fight us hard. It would be nice to have more servers be in the same tier to mix things up from week to week, because it's not too hard to learn major strategies that come into play by the leading guilds. But at the same time we've been building a couple great rivalries, despite flames on the forums of teaming up, I guarantee there is no love lost on the battle field.

Also Zerging is only one part of the Wv3, you can have the best Zerg, and just get smoked runnig up against a well defended Keep, or even camp.

They do need to eliminate free transfers though, and some class balancing tweaks would be nice. But honestly the game is only a few months old... I'm impressed with how it rolled out and how it will evolve.

Well writen article with some good points.  But I think the true challenge for MMO's nowadays is and the way corporations are handling a new player base and it is completely and uterly ignored in these forums.

I'm guessing the majority of people on MMO post sites are similar to me, age 30's-40's. People who used to play D&D and were the pioneer role play gamers on Genesis and the PC etc. Now have jobs, kids, and are driven dedicated people. 

The MMO landscape has evolved along with those of us. The 1 to 2 million of us, who are still here looking for "the"game in a genre that has drastrically changed.

How did it change? WoW. Blizz did the most amazing gaming marketing campaign to draw in a new type of MMO player by the tenfold. Straight up brilliant, but changed our landscape forever. But they are only one part of the change. As us original MMO gamers evolved so did the next generation that didnt grow up on MOGS, and table top games, but rather XBOX and PS2's etc in a digital world.

IMO WoW is only popular because people went to it.  You look for an MMO that has population, friends bring in friends and have a good time. WoW was good in many ways, shallow in most others, but they had people, which draws people and the marketing behind it to boasted that at every chance. Honestly WoW has only been successful because of their marketing, which was completely ignored from SOE and majority of titles that hosted games like UO or DOAC at that era. Blizz really didn't have anything revolutionary or drastically different beyond easy leveling and lots of instant gratification which takes us to the other point.

As we aged and changed so did the genre. Don't forget this is a commercial and capitalistic Genre, as is well pretty much everything. Point in case would be the music industry, look back 60-70 years then move forward, you have the Beach Boys, you have the Beatles, you have Manudo, New Kid's on the block, Nsync?, Justin Beeber and so on. An ever changing cycle with the majority of popular sales world wide targeted towards a certain demographic. Is the MMO market much different?

Well first we used to be more of a "cult" market really. Some might call us nerdy techy types, on the leading edge of hype trendy technology that was actually pretty expensive and complicated. Now those are given out pretty easily. New box's are pretty cheap, technology and interfaces easily understood by most. One of my coworkers was setting up a computer for his youngest daughter last week like he did with all of his other kids, and she couldn't get past the keyboard because of her previous interactions with the iPad. Again another change.

I think what we're seeing is the continued surge of those evolving from the Xbox360/PS3 environments where they were continually conditioned people to beat the game on a linear track and move onto another title, hence the "locusts" people mention. Honestly the market and development reflects this in every way. Unfortunately most game developers also seem to be trying to keep up with these trends only to a negative affect to their product in the MMO world scape. And lets not even mention the foriegn asian market because I know very little about those games but has quadroupled the player base.

Why wouldn't they? Let's look at a few facts. Most major console title's like Halo, or MWF, are dishing out more than major motion pictures for production, and bringing in way more revenue than them. Selling hundreds of millions of boxes at around 60 bucks a pop, at least tripling the sales of the most popular movies on the market.

From a story line, these games are very linear, from a pvp aspect they are dead as soon as the next release comes out. They don't even stack like MMO's. But these are the clients who have been merging into the MMO world over the last decade, our "locuts"; Beat it, on to the next; follow the popular herd to a new game and or release that doesn't allow for you to carry your character or continue to build your hero any more.  It's a very different world. The different MMO companies seem to be trying to catch up to this and continually try to suck in the billions of dollars being used for gaming entertainment.

Probably no different than why I can't understand my X-wife, or why my kid wants/NEEDS a new $60 game every month :-P

How have we seen this affect our games?

Well most of my complaints would revolve around poor marketing for most major titles, and the success of marketing for other titles that have kind of ruined the genre. But beside that there are crucial differentiators that are obvious.

IMO there are a few titles over the last couple decades that had stood out as true MMOs. UO, EQ2, SWG, VG. Each of these had had their good stuff and eventually major short fallings.

UO absolutely revotionary, simply couldn't compete with upcoming major devolepment titles and progressive systems, poor management and dissruptive ownerships.

SWG could have been would have been the next evolution of this. This is literally the biggest proprietary title on the planet, and should have gone so far. NGE did kill this game, but why? Battlefronts had come out and did amazing on the consols selling millions, they twitch played production to try to replicate that, not realizing those people were'nt MMO'rs yet (check the timeline). That was really what that was about. NGE failed and almost no production money was put into the title after that, and the few remaining developers did their best to make the best game they could, but unfortunately it wasn't enough, and was then killed because of the next fail of the new SW MMO SWTOR.

VG, which I really think "physically should be" what an MMO is, was again just sabotaged by many poor desicions and never received much love after it's poor launch.

EQ2 was MY game forever. I loved it and was dedicated to it since beta. I just think they swung way to far to left over the last couple years and now the game being "ftp" has only added a dozen ways to make you pay for it. Management dummied it down so much that you either are playing it as a newbie locust, are a Sim City crafter/decorator or are left with raid grinding. The game had so much to offer, but they completely yanked out the core game play aspect. No matter how much candy you throw in, once you lose the real game play, the core, there is no back bone to hold it up. If SOE had half the smarts that Blizz did this game would have rivaled WoW. But now SOE has chosen to completely disregarded their original player base and proves to only play "twitch" development to find everyway they can to cash grab from customers instead of continue to make them loyal.

What I am currently playing is GW2. It has honestly been refreshing over the last three months. I don't feel any level grinds, and when I am over powered for a zone I am quickly put back in my place even in zones way below my level. The PVP is amazing and I spend most of my limited time there. I paid to buy the game (as almost all FTP games do, but have actually saved hundreds of dollars over the last few month from my last game that was "FTP"). There is no monthly sub, no constant barrage of market items.  Simple and fun.

FTP is an illusion to suck in new people, simply an illusion.

To any publishers out there. Just make the game fun please, make it easy. If you want a serious and dedicated player base, don't keep changing subscription rules, just stand up for what you believe in continue to develop the story. That will keep your players active and loyal. I don't honestly see how the "fly by night" players bring in real non-spurt revenue, aka most of the "locusts" people are complaining about should become the complete focus.






Being new to the GW franchise, specifically GW2, I think they are hitting on most of the points. Except it's certainly not "sand box" yet having been out for a couple months, but Sand Box is over rated in my opinion. But are absolutely on top for price model.

EQ2 or SWG was the closest I know of on the market at the moment for Sand Box, which I played the heck out of from launch until recent. Unfortunately the people who want to play sand box are the ones who want to create it, and usually for their own self created content. Outside of small pockets a true sand box only satifies those people who just want to create Sim City environments (single player mentality). In an MMO environment with everyone creating quests, dungeons, environments - even a couple hundred people doing that creates an overwhelming number of unknown options as a player. EQ2 was on the right track in this regard, but their main game got so dumbed down and irrelevant over the last couple years, and again then to the player created content. To me it's like shooting yourself in the foot.

Eventually your only trying to cater to either the hard core raider's and making them farm the same raid zones all the time for the best gear or cater to the Farmville people who wish they were solo game developers with a bunch of fancy tools. But doing so they have lost their entire game play system and story, that allows random active challenges keeping people engaged in that game system and story line, which is supposed to be the fun part of playing and escape.

If for example you look at anything that SOE or Turbine or Funcom has put out as "FTP" compared to Arena Net's GW2 (and maybe GW1?) they are anything but FTP. This is probably why you get so many people trying so many FTP games and vanishing so soon. It's an impulse model, having very little sustainability.

This is why they all not only require an advanced subscription model to simply be able to wear good gear to be competitive or relevant to go into the content all the few dozen people are at. But ALL of them also do require expansion purchases, costing on average $40-50 USD, then constantly bombarding you with cash store purchases on top of it. Is this because they know they're desperate and know the game isn't fun enough to just enjoy instead of sucking off the long time skittle eaters or are they greedy trying to prey off of their own main fans?

GW2 may have only been out for a few months, but I'm still excited I got the game as a gift and have been extremely surprised. GW2 is so much more FTP than any model I've seen. Sure you buy the box - again if you want the real content in anyother game you need to as well... (unless you want the first 8 or 10 expansions for EQ2 that got so watered down. now you will solo level to max in a week or so to get to where the entire population is at with said paid for expansions).

I did get to max level pretty easily IMO in GW2 being a casual player now over the last couple months, but I never "felt like I had to" I just enjoyed the ride - It's beautiful and lively, the world always feels active and huge even only standing around NPC's only. I still only have about 40% world explored. But regardless of where I go in the world it is always a challenge. The auto-leveling is very well done. This keeps it a game and keeps me on my toes, just very fun that way. 

GW2 actually encourages an MMO environment, you don't need to be grouped to be "grouped" in the world unless you're hitting an instanced dungeon. You can be running around and all of a sudden surrounded by dozens of people doing the same thing. That is very cool. Even NPC's seem a bit real... The world just seems to be different from anything I've seen.

PVP, forget about it... It's crazy fun, the only thing they need to fix is WvWvW server hoping. But still this is insane fun. Literally hundreds of people playing with you at every moment in a fast paced crazy way, all kinds of tactics or play styles, I'm still trying to figure out that game play aspect alone - whoot I have to think and try!!! No script plugins to make sure I'm ducking or running or taking a potion at exactly the right moment, WHOOT!!!. I just think they did a really good job at it and the number of people playing prove that point.

Not trying to sound like a GW2 coolaid drinker, but I did buy every EQ2/EQ1 expansion until recently, and spent hundreds of dollars on top of that over the last year alone, of that since it went ftp to really play a "FTP" game, only to get more and more discouraged with hugely declining populations even despite constant merger servers.

 I get a game like GW2 that is compelling, fun, and I can play the game with no worries of a monthly fee of any kind, any thing in a "Cash" store I can buy with what I earn in game, or I can cheese out and do it the easy way, It's there but I've never seen anything I actually would need or want to do that for. I will happily keep paying for a full box version for new expansions - was doing the same for any other FTP game. But this is just fun, it's out on the table and there's no guess work or tricks in between so far.

Also I was never very good at decorating my houses, in EQ2 i had about 10 of them on my main, there was just piles of crap everywhere to get them out of my bags.... Well I did have one that's cool ;-)


Can someone please PM me what a real sandbox is? (Threads are just getting too long) Vanguard is very similar to SWG in many ways, just lacked the player made quests that were put in late in it's history. Only Vanguard was an SOE "token" game taken on and never received any love it truly deserved until recently and even that is based around SC stuff. UO is that a true sand box? Make houses like you want them? 

To me a Sandbox game is something like Roblox my kids play all the time. I don't see how that jives in a truly MMO aspect without instances. 

Having been an SOE fanatic since EQ1 until I got GW2 as a present for my birthday. What SOE has really been doing is trying their best to stay alive. Their games are just dead from a player interaction=MMO. They have completely watered down their titles in the last few years (thanks Smed and Smoke!) and make them "FTP" with a pretty much required extra subscription fee to play the real content which now only exists in EQ2 as repetative raid content. Having played every SOE title from EQ1 to Matrix to SWG to Freerealms, to VG, to PS1+2, etc. They're only goal now is how can we make money off of this in several different aspects? My guess is that their original concept wasn't showing a profitable SC value so they want to tweak it in that regard.

What opened my eyes was GW2, not being a fan or anything of the franchise I was very sceptical going into it. But hey it was a gift so why not... 

The game is equally FTP as EQ2 (my MAIN game since it's beta) you buy an expansion you get to play that content. Differences lie in the fact you don't need a subscription to wear good armor, or purchase tokens through SC store. You are not indated with SC requests. You don't have a business model that has been constantly changing several times within short periods. You buy the game and play. 

And the game play has completely blown me away. Seemless grouping in an area, no invites required. Dozens of players randomly joining together. Relevant content no matter what level you are and where you go, or what you are wearing. GW2 is also amazingly beautiful and just sucks you in. The main story lines are a bit linear but if you just play the game, and forget about grinding etc you come to see it actually feels like a living breathing world. And there is really no need for grinding unless your bent on being lvl "80". I got to max level pretty quickly but didnt ever feel like I had to. It just happened. I was playing PVP or running around exploring the beautiful world and was challenged ever step of the way like a game should do. Have some fun, not a second job. 

Most importantly in GW2 there are people! No matter where you go, you are not playing a solo player game in an MMO environment. As a main raider in EQ2 in one of the top guilds, we would do the same stuff every week trying to make sure everyone could follow the script and have the right plugins which hopefully worked. It just wasn't a game any more. Step outside of a raid or guild aspect the game is completely baren, no matter where you go.  If you go to WvWvW you will always be surrounded by HUNDREDS of players from your server. You think a 24 man Raid is fun... bleh! An MMO should always be spontaneous. Oh and hey, GW2 looks so much better than EQ2, runs so much smoother, has so much more depth and heart than a game that has been out for years. Someone's doing something right, and it shows.

It's so sad. I spent years and hundreds of hours playing it. But SOE's recent models shows they only care about how to suck people in and get money while they can because they have no long term ability to retain them, and their trend has been continuosly been driving that model. And their numbers show it. /cry


The negative topics on this is null and will be proven in the next couple months. 

The majority of people are still trying to learn game mechanics... we're not even a month into release!? 

In Wv3 you have hundreds of hackers (across a variety of servers) tooling tricks to try to level or what not - you have have power levers w/ no real experience or achievements, and you have a lot of people experimenting with "what is this..?". You also have a few good players who know what they are doing and they are still the minority, but also the ones who are probably the ones complaining about it (not bad, just premature imo).

The player base doubled in size in under two weeks, to well over 2 mill, and while that is probably expected by everyone, the logistics of it is yet a different story. 

I'm just glad I can still run in and have a game that runs great. I'll focus on pvp once I KNOW my toon and have a full understanding of the diversity I can provide... then I'll probably start complaining :-P

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