I disagree with the OP

SWTOR clearly got backward toward 2004 standards with graphics..............

Originally posted by SBFord

Star Wars: The Old Republic players are flocking to the official forums with reports that PvP kills on the planet are not registering for daily and weekly quests. The dev team has weighed into the thread and reported that the team is tracking the issue down.

What about you? Have you noticed the issue in your journeys on Ilum? Let us know!

Lol, did it ever worked?

SWTOR PvP is not existent, never existed and probably it won't be implemented for another year

At the moment is just a place holder, same as the space combat.

I really hope they didn't intend to design those features this way because it would be serious incompetence.

Worst PvP I played in my 10 years of MMO experience.........and the Space Combat is just a joke right? They cannot be serious implementing a 20 y/o arcade game in a 2011 multi million MMO production.

Originally posted by RabbiFang

So, to my point. I seem to spend far, far more time waiting for the next MMO to come along and disappoint me than I do actually playing MMO games. That's sad, in it self, and says a hell of a lot for an industry which could be so much more than it is right now. Currently, I'm eagerly awaiting Diablo III, Archeage and Planetside 2, and I have a close eye on Tera and TSW. Which of those games will let me down? All of them? three of them? Who knows, but I'm almost certain we'll all be  back here in twelve months time, waiting. 

Simple

1) Diablo is not a MMORPG, so it will be highly entertaining providing you do not expect a MMO.

I am so excited I paid 1 year WoW subscription to get it free as soon as it's released.

2) Planetside 2 is not a MMO either, not in the sense me and you perceive a MMORPG should be.

Yet I am excited about this one too, because I am craving to play a good FPS online (I loved Global Agenda but it feels too much like a Multiplayer game, PS2 should be a little bit more sophisticated )

3) Tera is Aion Re-loaded or Lineage 2 Re-re-loaded, yes it has few twist, but it's the same Korean bullshit.

4) TSW I have to be honest, I do not understand the concept so I am not particularly excited, but I keep an open door for it since it looks something different.

3) Archeage is what everyone who played MMORPGs prior WoW is waiting for.

To me could be the biggest surprise in the MMO industry since WoW or the biggest disappointment, since I am  so excited about

But on paper Archeage looks like the future of MMORPG (Themepark + Sandbox)

Another one I am looking for is GW2, although it's not exactly a game which promises too much freedom, it looks different enough to be fun, as long is not as instanced as the original GW

Originally posted by Hypodermica

Apparently, whether you love or hate SW:TOR, it's definately an obsession.. either way ;)

 

It's just a fad.

SWTOR is an average MMO like many others.

That's not because GW2 will be necessary better (although I guess it will), but because SWTOR is an average game and can't thrive on its own merits.

Now it's the new kid on the block, once it will have some new competition it will fade into oblivion

Why just the Guilds?

The biggest problem with this game is for the people who aren't in a Guild who find it difficult to find things to do and stick with the game.

Bioware needs to pick the best critics on the varius MMORPG sites (including their own) and invite those people if they want to save their game, which is clearly sinking pretty fast judging biy the posts on their forum.

And this roundtable is a sign that Bioware gave up and finally is ready to listen to the experts................the player base.

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by MattNe

Originally

Rift will end up having more subscribers than Swtor in few months time, mark my words

Marked, pray your words don't return to haunt you.

Currently there are 16 American servers for Rift.  100 plus American servers for Tor.

yes................. 16 servers half empty (or half full) that's why people are asking for a merge already.........1 month after launch.

I don't think my words will return to hunt me, I am quite confident we will see server mergers in 2 months.

Where you get these numbers at?? Took a screenie one day and seen some at light did ya? Lets see the link on this one, I'm callin BS on it. Lets see ALL these people screaming for merges already (oh and yes I do read the official forums too, lets see your proof here).

That's because you need to take off your rose tinted glasses, because people are complaining in droves on the official forums that the game feel empty and they hardly meet other players while playing, without taking into consideration that finding a group takes ages.

That's the reason I finally quit few days ago, it just felt like playing a single player game.

This game has the same problem of WAR, AoC, and Rift (the best out of those)..........many people happy the first month (me), few people happy the second (you), and a small amount of people happily playing the game after the third (you?).

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Teala

Glad this guy is out of making MMO's, he is better off making the social games he is now involved in. 

With many a dev leaving this genre, to pursue that market, I'd be mindful of throwing statements like this around. That is, if you like MMO's being available for you to play or write about. Blaming one guy or a few for the state of this genre is ridiculous, the fact of the matter is the market is dictated by the revenue that comes in from the consumer, considering these games sell far more than "others" blame the people who keep putting money into things they have no interest in.

 

 

And where is the evidence?

Can you name one AAA Sandbox for example?

Don't waste your time thinking cause there is none.

So how can you tell the market is responsible for the state of the MMO industry  if no one has the proof that players won't like a AAA Sandbox MMO?

The only certainty is that in the last 6 years every Theme Park MMO made after WoW was a huge fail compared to Blizzard game................the market is not liking the Theme Park MMOs, that's the only conclusion.

Maybe is time to experiment with something else?

The MMORPG community is waiting for the Skyrim of MMORPGs, the only people who didn't get it yet are the developers unfortunately.

There is a huge market for a Sandbox MMORPGs.

Sandbox is often associated with mindless grind and hardcore gaming, but that's not how I would define it, if it's well done it awon't be any hardcore than any other Theme Park (Don't tell me that WoW endgame isn't hardcore)

The first company which will dare to make one will get all the benefits, exactly the same way WoW ripped the benefits for tmaking the first good AAA Theme Park MMO.

Originally posted by SandboxerX
As it seems right now ArcheAge will not be a full loot game. While it may be possible to kill other players at will you will not be able to loot them. I started a petition to get XL Games to create a separate full loot server for the hardcore sandbox crowd. Even if you do not like full loot MMO's it would behoove you to sign this petition so that gankers will stay on there own server. Please sign this petition. http://sandboxer.org/?p=541

I think XLGames is doing just fine.

The only way to make Sandboxes mainstream, is to mix them with Theme Park features, and full loot is something Casual players can't digest.

I understand your point is to have 1 server enabled for a full loot system, but I believe it is not simple to implement without diverting hours of labour toward something which will appeal only a minority of the player base.

I can't wait for this game by the way.

Originally posted by MattNe

Originally

Rift will end up having more subscribers than Swtor in few months time, mark my words

Marked, pray your words don't return to haunt you.

Currently there are 16 American servers for Rift.  100 plus American servers for Tor.

yes................. 16 servers half empty (or half full) that's why people are asking for a merge already.........1 month after launch.

I don't think my words will return to hunt me, I am quite confident we will see server mergers in 2 months.

Originally posted by Castillle

O.o  do you? 

 

This is like..the first game where I was completely hooked with crafting.  I mean..I was hooked with engineering in WoW but its more cuz tonk fighting was the best minigame ever..But still!

I really hope you ve been sarcastic, cause Swtopr crafting is the most useless feature seen in any MMO in the last few years.

It's just a pointless grind which  doesn't give neither good gear to use or any good to sell, total fail IMO.

Originally posted by oobla

Quite frankly I had my doubts as to what would happen in month 2 . I was convinced there would be a large drop off this has thus far failed to materialise with plenty of full servers and no low ones at peak times . I think the reason for this is because it appeals to people who enjoy single player RPG games . ToR to me is a single player rpg  game with mmo elements  which is the reverse of most mmos where story takes a back seat . I think whats happened is that ToR has attracted people that dont normally play mmos . Maybe some are StarWars fans and others are fans of games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect and perhaps went into the game not expecting any different to what they have got . The trick Bioware may have pulled off is spotting a gap in the mmo market . Still you cant argue with success and the game although it maybe not what many of us wanted ( I felt this myself ) it is indeed maintaining its numbers well into month 2 . Of course to retain that long term will require updates to the story on a regular basis .  

You seems pretty sure about your numbers, where do you get your information?

Because from Swtor official forums, it looks like people are already asking for Server consolidation due to lack of people on several servers.

If I have to be honest Bioware got it completely wrong actually, because after the player run out of stories (and after the second Alt the storuy is pretty much the same), people will move on to something else.......because there are very little MMO features to keep people playing the game until the next content update in a year time (Next expansion)

Rift will end up having more subscribers than Swtor in few months time, mark my words

You know Isabel many player will disagree with you.

Unfortunately the developers tend to listen to those kind of players, that's why we don't have a good MMORPG since WoW came out.

Developers though should read carefully your post because that' s the secret of the longevity all the latest  MMOs cannot achieve.

To be completely honesst I find ridicolous that developers expect players to stick around for a long period of time when they can max a character in a month or less.

To me that's commercial suicide, you want people to stay subscribed for a year when you allow them to burn all the content in a month.

They have to be quite optimistic or really stupid................

Originally posted by ChicagoCub

After playing through beta and for the first month now I have little doubt this game was built to be free to play.  It is my personal opinion that they are running the sub fees as long as they can but the model was designed to be profitable as free to play and the sub fees are just gravy for as long as they last.

There's just too many content holes for the amount of time and money they put into it.   When you look at the finished product it just doesn't add up.  There is more, they designed more, and they're just waiting until they have to use it.   I'm not talking about free updates to keep people paying subs (RIFT) or even paid expansions (WOW), I'm talking about a cash store the likes of which the industry has never seen.  I think its there, I think its ready, I think all they need to do is flip the switch.

Can you be more specific?

The way it looks to me is that Bioware has been a bit lazy and they came up with the wrong design, that's why the game sucks.

I am sure that RMT is plan B for Bioware, but so is for every MMO, but I don't think Swotor has been specifically designed for RTM (although they will end up there like every failed MMO)

Blizzard is not even thinking about RMT because the game is already profitable as it is.

Monthly subscription is thye more profitable way to make money from a MMO.

Only when a game fail to substain a decent amount of subscribers then it's forced to the Free to Play concept

Originally posted by cmorris975

I love non-linear gameplay.  I can handle instances here and there but I prefer public zones the danger of PvP.  Do you think I might enjoy SWTOR?  Or is it too scripted?

 

Thanks for your opinion!

 

Chris

Don't waste your money.

This game is fun for a month then you will get bored.

Definetly is not a game for people who love non-linear MMO.

Swtor is as linear as you can get, there is no open world PvP, and the instanced PvP sucks.

Originally posted by Kakkzooka

I quit a while back, not because of pandas, but because the social aspect of the game had declined. The LFG and LFR had turned the world into a lobby system.

 

Regarding Pandas - I don't understand all the hate. You have werewolves, aliens with penises on their chins, elves, fish people and goblins. Why would Pandas stop anyone from playing WoW? If that's your only reason to keep you from playing, it isn't a logical reason.

They are too cute for the western players, cute is for Asians.

Western players likes evil looking characters.........ever wondered why in every MMO the evil faction is always double the good faction?

We had it in WoW (then they had to add the Worgen and the Dranei to make  the good side less cute and more appeleaing), we had it in War, and we have this problem rifght now in Swtor where the Republic is far outstripped by Empire players.

The race choice is far more important to western players than you might think.

As you pointed out, WoW is already killing the player base with the excess of LFG and LFR tools, the Pandas might be the killing blow.

I could quit just because of that.

I resubbed too after a disapointing month in Swtor.

WoW even after 7 years feels fresher and more innovative than a month old MMO like Swtor.

My advice to the developers is to give up and stop copying WoW

My 2 cents.

Originally posted by Royalkin

 

1. Market Confusion

 

Developers are not sure what the market demand actually is; they are confused. It was assumed for quite some time that the market wanted Warcraft style themeparks. However this cannot be the case since every attempt has failed to reach World of Warcraft’s subscription levels. It is therefore seen as a failure in the eyes of the industry, investors, and other developers.

 

Developers are further confused because the majority of players who initially flock to these new themeparks eventually return to World of Warcraft, because it soon becomes apparent that the new themepark is a Warcraft immitation (and why should they pay to experience an imitation when they can play the original?), so it appears that the Warcraft style themepark model holds market dominance, when it fact it really doesn’t. If this weren't true, then there should exist (at the very least) a group of themeparks with multi-million subscribers, yet this is not the case. No themepark has ever came close to the success of Warcraft, and the themeparks that do exist have relatively similar subscription levels to MMORPGs that came before Warcraft.

 

 

In reality, the Wacraft style themepark does not hold market dominance, World of Warcraft itself, alone holds market dominance. It is an anomaly in the history of the MMORPG.

 

Great post Royalkin, I wanted to write something like that for quite some time, but never had the time to do so.

In your post you said 2 crucial truths that the MMO industry seems to overlook:

1) Players want something different from WoW. Why pay for a WoW imitation when you can play the original which has 7 years worth of content?

I am an example of this. I am basically a Sandbox guy who plays WoW because there is not any AAA Sandbox to be played at the moment, all the indie ones are missing something which are generally gamebraking.

I recently played my free month in Swtor and quit, and promptly I re-subscribed to WoW which compared to Swtor is a breath of fresh air (Yes it's difficult to believe that when you talk about a 7 y/o game)

2) There is not a WoW genre market.................there is only a WoW market, which is basically dominated surprisingly enough by ............. WoW

I hope developers realize the big mistakes they are making.

MMORPGs are not games.........but worlds

Originally posted by Benthon

Because Bethseda owns the rights to the engine.

And they might want to use it on their own MMO which is in developement (Fallout Online?)

Originally posted by mgilbrtsn

I was wondering how game companies who obviously have put a lot of time and money into a game, can so miss the mark on what the gaming community wants.  I'm not talking about nitpicking every little thing a game does right/wrong, becausee those are always up for debate.  Instead I'm wondering at a more Macro level.  Star Trek Online and Champions online come to mind.  Its obvious that a lot of money was spent on them.  The quality shows.  However, they are so far off the mark on what players wanted, that they just fail to attract the masses.  I know that politicians and others do a lot of market surveys and focus groups to help them make decisions.  Do game companies not do this?  Just cruious.

See.........this is the problem, they actually do it, and hat's why you get average MMORPGs nowadays

IF you ask a focus group who play those games for the first time if SWTOR, STO, DCU, CO, RIFT, WAR are  fun, almost all of them will give positive feedbacks.

That is because those game for the first few weeks in their own way are actually fun.

What those focus group fail to find out is if those people who found those games fun at the beginning, will still play them after few months.

In short what those focus group fail to find out is if the MMO is future proof.........which to me is the main characteristic of a MMO

The best way to make a MMO is NOT listening to focus groups, but recruit external Beta testers from the early stage of the game and work with them.

The majority of the members of this community (MMORPG.com) could tell by just playing the game for a week, if the game will have longevity or it will be a 1 month hit (Like many of the latest AAA released)

MMO Developers should really considering emplying advisors within the MMO community.........because in the end those are the people who are supposed to pay their $15 monthly fee.

MMORPGs are not magnified Multiplayer games..........this difference is still not clear in the gaming industry

Archeage and GW2