Originally posted by Fly666monkey

I hope I'm not the only one who is a little confused by the attitude of people who jump into F2P games and expect everything to be free.

Anytime a f2p game cuts co0ntent off from free players, I see countless people complaining that they have to pay for it. Even in a game that used to be P2P and required you to buy both the game AND pay a sub to access the game AT ALL.

F2P is not Freeware.

It's a buisiness model. So long as F2P games provide quality content, and don't fall into gambling/P2W traps, I see no reason to complain. Guess what? These games have to make money, too.

This whole "F2P games should give me everything for free, GIMMMEGIMMEGIMME." attitude makes no sense. If you're willing to pay a sub to access an MMO, then I see no reason to whine when they decide to let you have SOME of that content without paying.

I'm glad I got that off my chest.

Let's get this off my chest..........

If I have to pay to buy content...........it's not free to play, because if I don't buy it I won't be able to play it...........it looks like a simple concept to me

Go and play some Asian F2P and then play EQ2 or AoC, if you can't see the difference between them it means that you are not very smart.

The Korean/Chinese ones are F2P because they offer access to the whole content........for free.

Then we have the Western F2P which are not, because you have to buy parts of the content to be able to play it decently,  therefore they should not be called F2P because it is false advertisement.

So how Asian MMO make money?

Simple

1) Leveling Potion or EXP Boost (Since they use slow leveling as standard, those sell well)

2) Players can buy  the best item/gear available in the game

3) Players can buy appereance items

So if someone wants to play for free, they can, but it will take them longer to level and acquire the best gear, but apart from that, there is no limitation to the content they can access.

Alternativetly, you can buy your way up.

That's how a F2P should work.

What the Western MMO developers do, it's just just a dirty trick, and although it is not illegal, it is highly deceiving.

Originally posted by jacklo

What is it with the staunch defenders of SWTOR when they come up with "It's only the people on MMORPG.com that hate SWTOR"?

I read loads of game related sites and can tell you that SWTOR is taking a hit EVERYWHERE. It's all over the Internet guys, even non-game sites are talking it down now.

Conspiracy? I don't think so.

You only need to go to the official forums to confirm so enough of that line already.

 

They move all negative threads to different forums and when that's not possible they lock them or cancel them altogheter.

If you refresh the General Forum of SWTOR for 30 mins, you ll notice the high volume of negative feedbacks which magically disappear after 3-4 replies

Originally posted by Senerius

Mabey you should go back and look again because it does give the option of saying it was too easy.

When I left it wasn't there, that's why I had to write a wall of text in the feedback box instead.

If that's the case, good on them, they will have a real clue on what they did wrong.

Originally posted by fivoroth

I am sorry to inform all those people who love preaching about the end of the WoW that the game's subscription numbers seem to have stabalised at 10.2M.

So no, WoW has not dropped to 5-8m subs and it is definitely not bleeding subs badly.

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/3312965596 - Original source 

http://investor.activision.com/releasedetail.cfm?ReleaseID=647732 - Report

Playing SWTOR for a month made me want to resubscribe to WoW after 6 months break.................I just wanted to play a well made Themepark

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

That is an interesting point and good observation.

maybe they assume it isn't worth asking beecause no matter how easy some deem mmos to be these days seems like they still get hammered to a fair degree by some that things are too difficult or take too long?

Aye but that's my point

If their feedbacks finds that 50 players quit because they find the game too difficult and 100 because they find it too easy, wouldn't that be an interesting result to reflect on?

Why they would not be interested in finding this out?

My worry is that developers just assume that challenge is not a priority to players........................that's not a good attitude for a game designer.

Originally posted by gestalt11

Actually SWTOR's mob difficulty is not static.  Things get harder and harder as you level.  Encounters that were pretty easy at 20 can leave you with 50% or even 25% health at level 40.

The "easy" definition is not just applied to the combat, but the overall feel of the game

If you can get to 50 in 2 weeks and complete all Raids within a month, that's what I consider easy.

It's not just the combat in itself which I don't judge easy but tedious................

But that's not even the point.

I am not discussing if SWTOR is easy or not (which can be subjective) but why the developers don't even consuider the possibility that the reason why players are leaving their game is not because it's too difficult but because it's too easy.

I want to discuss why developers won't consider "challenge" a selling point, and actually disregard it as a trivial thing who no one is interested in

Stay on topic please

Originally posted by Arquiteto

Bulgarian developer Masthead Studios announced earlier today that they're shutting down the servers for their post-apocalyptic sandbox MMO Earthrise.
 

"One year after the launch of the game, we have decided to stop the Earthrise servers. Earthrise was released too early and did not meet the expectations of its fans"

We knew that since Beta..........but good try.

Great concept, but no money, seen that before.

Still waiting for a good AAA sandbox, if sandboxes keep being developed by indies, they will never become mainstream, because people will always associate "sandbox" with incomplete and broken games like Earthrise, Mortal Online, and for some extent Darkfall.

Probably this is an insignificant detail for many but to me says it all about the state of currents MMOs and the industry.

When I canceled my subscription to SWTOR I noticed once again something I found frustrating also in most of the feedback form of  many recent MMORPG and that's the following option:

- Are you canceling your subscription because the game is too difficult?

I understand that this is a reasonable option to offer, I am sure many players find SWTOR quite difficult (although I don't know anyone personally), what I could not understand is the reason why I could not find the option "because the game is too easy"

SWTOR is not the only MMORPG that doesn't offer this option when you quit the game, and that's what I find disturbing.

Is it possible that MMORPGs developers cannot conceve the fact that lots of players might find their games a tiny bit too easy, and that this reason is enough for many players to quit the game?

How come they are not interested in finding out if there is anyone that actually is leaving the game because it's too easy, not the other way round?

Are MMO developers so out of touch with the player base that cannot grasp the fact that the easyness of their game could be their weakest point?

I am really worried that challenge is something game designers don't take into consideration when designing a game, but unfortunately I cannot but notice that  this filosophy is applied to all major AAA MMOs released in the last 5 years.

Isn't it time to change this filosophy..........or at least put an option in your feedback form so you have a clue about the real reasons why people are leaving your game (so next time you avoid producing expensive flops)?

Most pointless poll ever.

Bioware is the worst MMO developer, and I am sure it would have won the contest if you included it.

But looking at your avatar I start to understand why.................

I disagree with the OP

SWTOR clearly got backward toward 2004 standards with graphics..............

Originally posted by SBFord

Star Wars: The Old Republic players are flocking to the official forums with reports that PvP kills on the planet are not registering for daily and weekly quests. The dev team has weighed into the thread and reported that the team is tracking the issue down.

What about you? Have you noticed the issue in your journeys on Ilum? Let us know!

Lol, did it ever worked?

SWTOR PvP is not existent, never existed and probably it won't be implemented for another year

At the moment is just a place holder, same as the space combat.

I really hope they didn't intend to design those features this way because it would be serious incompetence.

Worst PvP I played in my 10 years of MMO experience.........and the Space Combat is just a joke right? They cannot be serious implementing a 20 y/o arcade game in a 2011 multi million MMO production.

Originally posted by RabbiFang

So, to my point. I seem to spend far, far more time waiting for the next MMO to come along and disappoint me than I do actually playing MMO games. That's sad, in it self, and says a hell of a lot for an industry which could be so much more than it is right now. Currently, I'm eagerly awaiting Diablo III, Archeage and Planetside 2, and I have a close eye on Tera and TSW. Which of those games will let me down? All of them? three of them? Who knows, but I'm almost certain we'll all be  back here in twelve months time, waiting. 

Simple

1) Diablo is not a MMORPG, so it will be highly entertaining providing you do not expect a MMO.

I am so excited I paid 1 year WoW subscription to get it free as soon as it's released.

2) Planetside 2 is not a MMO either, not in the sense me and you perceive a MMORPG should be.

Yet I am excited about this one too, because I am craving to play a good FPS online (I loved Global Agenda but it feels too much like a Multiplayer game, PS2 should be a little bit more sophisticated )

3) Tera is Aion Re-loaded or Lineage 2 Re-re-loaded, yes it has few twist, but it's the same Korean bullshit.

4) TSW I have to be honest, I do not understand the concept so I am not particularly excited, but I keep an open door for it since it looks something different.

3) Archeage is what everyone who played MMORPGs prior WoW is waiting for.

To me could be the biggest surprise in the MMO industry since WoW or the biggest disappointment, since I am  so excited about

But on paper Archeage looks like the future of MMORPG (Themepark + Sandbox)

Another one I am looking for is GW2, although it's not exactly a game which promises too much freedom, it looks different enough to be fun, as long is not as instanced as the original GW

Originally posted by Hypodermica

Apparently, whether you love or hate SW:TOR, it's definately an obsession.. either way ;)

 

It's just a fad.

SWTOR is an average MMO like many others.

That's not because GW2 will be necessary better (although I guess it will), but because SWTOR is an average game and can't thrive on its own merits.

Now it's the new kid on the block, once it will have some new competition it will fade into oblivion

Why just the Guilds?

The biggest problem with this game is for the people who aren't in a Guild who find it difficult to find things to do and stick with the game.

Bioware needs to pick the best critics on the varius MMORPG sites (including their own) and invite those people if they want to save their game, which is clearly sinking pretty fast judging biy the posts on their forum.

And this roundtable is a sign that Bioware gave up and finally is ready to listen to the experts................the player base.

Originally posted by Kaocan

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by MattNe

Originally

Rift will end up having more subscribers than Swtor in few months time, mark my words

Marked, pray your words don't return to haunt you.

Currently there are 16 American servers for Rift.  100 plus American servers for Tor.

yes................. 16 servers half empty (or half full) that's why people are asking for a merge already.........1 month after launch.

I don't think my words will return to hunt me, I am quite confident we will see server mergers in 2 months.

Where you get these numbers at?? Took a screenie one day and seen some at light did ya? Lets see the link on this one, I'm callin BS on it. Lets see ALL these people screaming for merges already (oh and yes I do read the official forums too, lets see your proof here).

That's because you need to take off your rose tinted glasses, because people are complaining in droves on the official forums that the game feel empty and they hardly meet other players while playing, without taking into consideration that finding a group takes ages.

That's the reason I finally quit few days ago, it just felt like playing a single player game.

This game has the same problem of WAR, AoC, and Rift (the best out of those)..........many people happy the first month (me), few people happy the second (you), and a small amount of people happily playing the game after the third (you?).

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Teala

Glad this guy is out of making MMO's, he is better off making the social games he is now involved in. 

With many a dev leaving this genre, to pursue that market, I'd be mindful of throwing statements like this around. That is, if you like MMO's being available for you to play or write about. Blaming one guy or a few for the state of this genre is ridiculous, the fact of the matter is the market is dictated by the revenue that comes in from the consumer, considering these games sell far more than "others" blame the people who keep putting money into things they have no interest in.

 

 

And where is the evidence?

Can you name one AAA Sandbox for example?

Don't waste your time thinking cause there is none.

So how can you tell the market is responsible for the state of the MMO industry  if no one has the proof that players won't like a AAA Sandbox MMO?

The only certainty is that in the last 6 years every Theme Park MMO made after WoW was a huge fail compared to Blizzard game................the market is not liking the Theme Park MMOs, that's the only conclusion.

Maybe is time to experiment with something else?

The MMORPG community is waiting for the Skyrim of MMORPGs, the only people who didn't get it yet are the developers unfortunately.

There is a huge market for a Sandbox MMORPGs.

Sandbox is often associated with mindless grind and hardcore gaming, but that's not how I would define it, if it's well done it awon't be any hardcore than any other Theme Park (Don't tell me that WoW endgame isn't hardcore)

The first company which will dare to make one will get all the benefits, exactly the same way WoW ripped the benefits for tmaking the first good AAA Theme Park MMO.

Originally posted by SandboxerX
As it seems right now ArcheAge will not be a full loot game. While it may be possible to kill other players at will you will not be able to loot them. I started a petition to get XL Games to create a separate full loot server for the hardcore sandbox crowd. Even if you do not like full loot MMO's it would behoove you to sign this petition so that gankers will stay on there own server. Please sign this petition. http://sandboxer.org/?p=541

I think XLGames is doing just fine.

The only way to make Sandboxes mainstream, is to mix them with Theme Park features, and full loot is something Casual players can't digest.

I understand your point is to have 1 server enabled for a full loot system, but I believe it is not simple to implement without diverting hours of labour toward something which will appeal only a minority of the player base.

I can't wait for this game by the way.

Originally posted by MattNe

Originally

Rift will end up having more subscribers than Swtor in few months time, mark my words

Marked, pray your words don't return to haunt you.

Currently there are 16 American servers for Rift.  100 plus American servers for Tor.

yes................. 16 servers half empty (or half full) that's why people are asking for a merge already.........1 month after launch.

I don't think my words will return to hunt me, I am quite confident we will see server mergers in 2 months.

Originally posted by Castillle

O.o  do you? 

 

This is like..the first game where I was completely hooked with crafting.  I mean..I was hooked with engineering in WoW but its more cuz tonk fighting was the best minigame ever..But still!

I really hope you ve been sarcastic, cause Swtopr crafting is the most useless feature seen in any MMO in the last few years.

It's just a pointless grind which  doesn't give neither good gear to use or any good to sell, total fail IMO.

Originally posted by oobla

Quite frankly I had my doubts as to what would happen in month 2 . I was convinced there would be a large drop off this has thus far failed to materialise with plenty of full servers and no low ones at peak times . I think the reason for this is because it appeals to people who enjoy single player RPG games . ToR to me is a single player rpg  game with mmo elements  which is the reverse of most mmos where story takes a back seat . I think whats happened is that ToR has attracted people that dont normally play mmos . Maybe some are StarWars fans and others are fans of games like Dragon Age or Mass Effect and perhaps went into the game not expecting any different to what they have got . The trick Bioware may have pulled off is spotting a gap in the mmo market . Still you cant argue with success and the game although it maybe not what many of us wanted ( I felt this myself ) it is indeed maintaining its numbers well into month 2 . Of course to retain that long term will require updates to the story on a regular basis .  

You seems pretty sure about your numbers, where do you get your information?

Because from Swtor official forums, it looks like people are already asking for Server consolidation due to lack of people on several servers.

If I have to be honest Bioware got it completely wrong actually, because after the player run out of stories (and after the second Alt the storuy is pretty much the same), people will move on to something else.......because there are very little MMO features to keep people playing the game until the next content update in a year time (Next expansion)

Rift will end up having more subscribers than Swtor in few months time, mark my words