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All Posts by SignusM

All Posts by SignusM

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952 posts found
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Dream_Chaser

Nope. This is objectively a bad idea.

And I can tell you why, of course I can.

Think abou it. In order to implement something like this so close to release, or even soon after release, they'd have to dedicate serious amounts of development resources to it.

How do you figure? It's just a PvP toggle. All they'd have to do is turn PvP on instead of off. Done.

This guy isn't asking for a totally different game, just a FFA PvP server.

 

Granted, FFA PvP servers, in my general experience, are terrible in level based MMOs like WOW and EQ, but a LOT of people like them. I prefer FFA PVP when the entire game is designed around it.

As soon as MO or Darkfall offers a PvE only server then maybe I might agree with your assessment.

Darkfall is a game that's entirely built around PvP. Remove that, and it simply does not work.

However, GW2, absolutely nothing would "break" if a PvP toggle was turned on. Nothing broke in AC1, or EQ, or DAoC, or any of the other games that had FFA PvP servers. It's simply an option for those that like that type of gameplay. How is this hard for people to understand?

And GW2 is a game thats entirely bult around social interaction in a dynamic open world environment where community and espirt de corps in a PvE social interactive world is the reason for the game and a core philosophy of the Anet manefesto.  Remove that and it simply does not work.

 

....Oookay... but we're not removing that. Adding PvP does not elimate social interaction or the PvE aspect of the game. It builds on top of it. How is this hard to understand? You DON'T REMOVE ANYTHING.

BUT you see if you add in what you or the OP wants then you remove the core foundational principle of what the game is trying to accomplish. 

No..it doesn't. People won't sudden stop interacting with one another just because there's PvP. If anything it'll drive people together even more because you'll NEED other people to survive. You'll need friends and guildies. How do you not understand this simple simple thing. Have you ever played a PvP game, ever?

I don't care if an OPTIONAL SERVER'S VERY PRESSENCE damages or goes against YOUR INTERPRETATION OF A MANIFESTO (a marketing gimmick) it will NOT change the mechanics of the game and thus NOTHING is removed.

Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Diovidius
Originally posted by Garvon3

I see. So its the "I don't like your play style so it should not be accomodated!" argument. Almost none of the games that have FFA PVP are built for it, yet people still play those MMOs and enjoy those servers.

It's the "The developer doesn't want it and there are plenty of other games which have it" argument. Play WvWvW or don't play at all is my advice.

I myself don't want to play on a FFA PVP server. But others do, and there's no reason why they shouldn't just because some of the crazies on these forums are afraid of the idea of PvP.

Show me where the developers say they don't want it. So far all I'm reading are posters who don't want it, even though it has no impact on them.

As for why "every MMO today needs FFA sandbox mode" almost every MMO since the dawn of the genre have had FFA servers.

Theres no reason because the game is designed from the ground floor to be a socially interactive MMO that promotes cooperation in the PvE setting fostering a sense of community pride twhereby that pride and willingness to help your fellow gamer

[mod edit[

I don't think you get what Mordred is.

I don't think you get how FFA PVP works.

There seem to be about 3 people in this ENTIRE thread that understands what the OP is asking. He's not asking for a recoding of the whole game. He's NOT asking for PvPers and "evil ggank0rs" to invade your world. He asked for a Mordred. Perhaps you all should have googled what that meant first before responding with "THAT'S NOT TRUE, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE!".

Mordred means, everything stays the same, except FFA PVP is turned on. That's it.

It wouldn't cost Anet time. It would not cost money beyond the server cost. It WOULD appeal to a large subset of gamers.

There's no reason a FFA PVP server would clash with the "manifesto". There's no reason it would confuse people. It'd simply be an option tacked onto the game giving even more options to even more players. It would not hurt you or your game experience yet you are CRUSADING against the very idea of it.

[mod edit]

Originally posted by Diovidius
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Fir3line
Fuck this, im leaving for uni and cba with this stupid shit

Translation : I didn't realize that uninstanced games can function perfectly with halfway decent development teams! I better leave this argument in a huff so I don't lose face.

Until now this was just a heated difference of opinion but this crosses a line sir.

I believe the line was crossed with "cba with this stupid shit was said". And I wouldn't say its a difference of opinion, more of someone who is ignorant (Fir) trying to tell someone who appears to have actually played a lot of MMOs (Garvon) that instancing is necessary in all MMOs. Which is absolutely laughably false and kudos to Garvon for calling them out on it.

Originally posted by BadSpock
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Not being funny but you can promote grouping without artificially ramming people into groups in instanced areas or pushing "Tank LFG for wrath king stage 2010103u302!!!".

That most modern day mmos (and their players) don't seem to grasp that does indeed point to the fact that the genre is in decline.

OK, how?

How do you encourage grouping without forcing it?

"Make the mobs hit harder and have more health so people have to band together to defeat them."

Forcing it.

"Make certain classes unable to solo effectively so they have to group together."

Forcing it.

"Make more clear distinctions between support/crowd control/healing etc. so people have to work together in groups."

Forcing it.

 

By making the world a dangerous place. Making grouping more rewarding and faster than soloing. Done.

Grouping is harder, it SHOULD give you more rewards.

Soloing should be difficult but possible if you REALLY hate people (wrong genre then, I think) If you simply cannot find a group you can still solo, do kill tasks and such, but it'll be more dangerous than having a group of people backing you up.

What happened?
LFGame « General Discussion
3/08/12 2:15:10 AM
Originally posted by Ridelynn

I am of the opinion that there is just as much, if not more, "good stuff" available today as there was 1/5/10/20 years ago.

It's just that there has been an exponentially larger amount of crap to wade through to find it.

I mean, back in 1985 - there was... Carmen Sandiego, Oregon Trail Jet Set Willy, and Starquake. And that was about it for new releases. The market was small, it didn't take much to saturate it. I loved Carmen Sandiego and Oregon Trail when I was in elementary school...

Er.. what warped version of the 80s did you live in? That's not even remotely true. The Ultima Games? The text adventures? The Goldbox games? The MUDs?

The difference is, the "good stuff" of this generation is usually not nearly as well made as the "good stuff" of the old generations.

Originally posted by StoneRoses
Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Originally posted by StoneRoses
Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Quirhid
 

 

Now your complaining about force grouping? Where are you going with this?

 

You don't want it to feel like a single player game, but at the same time you don't want to be forced to group (participate) with other players.

Not being funny but you can promote grouping without artificially ramming people into groups in instanced areas or pushing "Tank LFG for wrath king stage 2010103u302!!!".

  

That most modern day mmos (and their players) don't seem to grasp that does indeed point to the fact that the genre is in decline.

 

 

Speak for yourself.

 

If the MMO genre was in a decline how the fuck do you explain the companies that continue to make them and the growth each year? And I'm not just talking about Bioware.

 

Growth? You mean the critical and financial BOMBS that fail right out of the gate and fail to grow over time? I think probably one of the only MMOs with numbers going UP right now is Eve or Darkfall.

Originally posted by Garvon3

I'll relate another one of my favorite DAoC memories. This will give an example of the SCALE MMOs once had, even on dial up. As tech has gotten better, this type of thing has become more and more impossible in modern MMOs for some reason.

 

So, in DAoC, there are 3 realms vying for control of a frontier. Each realm has their own frontier, divided by oceans. In those frontier are keeps, in a few of these keeps there are relics kept. These are insanely important and usually go to show who is dominating RvR at that point. These relics give bonuses to the realm that has them. Significant bonuses.

So, Albion had quite a few of the relics and Hibernia and Midgard wanted them back. Midgard and Hibernia entered into talks on message boards, plotting their revenge. Those of us in Albion had no idea what was about to happen.

One weekend, a massive Caer Sidi raid was scheduled. This type of thing usually involved several alliances (a group of guilds that shared a chat channel). So we probably had about 100 or so of our best level 50 players 5 hours deep into the hardest raid dungeon in the game.

Spies for the other realms in the alliance alerted their sides of this event. So, at a critical moment, Hibernia and Midgard attacked at the same time. There were about 400 Hibernians and 300 Midgard players running through the Albion frontier, crushing castle walls. Their goal was to take four of our main keeps. That would shut down our supply line and teleport network. With that done, they'd  move on to the relic keep. Without supplies the relic keep would be much less defended, they could crack it open and take the relics back to their realms.

 

So now the moment was on us. Alarms went out in every alliance chat calling EVERYONE to arms. All level 50s, even level 10s and 20s. The instructions were for everyone to scramble and meet at the relic keep. Someone made the decisive to cut our losses, and not try to defend the other keeps. As the storm of enemies moved through the frontier we had a massive stream of people moving to the relic keep, carrying wood and diagrams metal, materials. While most of us were at the keep setting up trebuchets, balistas, catapults, boiling oil (even the lowbies could run siege engines) a crack group of level 50s went out to stall the enemy. They made a last stand in the fourth keep, and stalled the enemy long enough for us to get defenders to the relic keep. We constantly got updates in the alliance feed on enemy locations and the status of allies running to defend. Finally, all became quiet for a while. The fourth keep had fallen and the combined 750 man force was coming towards us. At this point we'd gathered 500 men to fight, mostly lowbies in siege engines. We felt the lag before we saw the enemy, everything locked up and then snapped back into normal speed. We sat on a hill while we saw the two armies approach. Midgard was down to our left, Hibernia to the right. Thankfully the two armies distrusted one another and didn't merge together. They attacked in seperate waves, and I think that's what saved us. Between the three of us, it was a CONSTANT battle for hours. I had never, in my four years of playing, seen that many siege engines going. Fireballs were exploding everywhere an enemy showed up, players died, rezzed, and reentered the fight. Lowbies stayed on the walls helping where they could.

Eventually though, Albion was overwhelmed, the relics were taken and the castle destroyed. But we weren't done yet. To capture the relics, the enemy had to get them back to their home frontier, across the ocean. We set up a naval fleet and blockaded the ocean port. There was a fierce naval fight in the Irish Sea and in the ensuing scramble, the Midgard ship carrying the relics sank to the bottom of the sea, and the relics were lost until the next server maintainence.

That is still one of my fondest PvP memories, and it makes me shake my head wondering why no one tries to copy DAoC.

Bumping this amazing story. RIP MMO Golden Age

Originally posted by Superduper69
Originally posted by eyeswideopen

AO = failed = F2P

AoC = failed = F2P

TSW = save money, wait for F2P

Hahah.. the famous mmorpg.com version of Failed MMOS. Comedy gold.

 

Pretty much only failed/underperforming MMOs have gone FTP.

And are you going to try to argue that AoC wasn't a failure?

Originally posted by Fed1
Originally posted by SignusM
Originally posted by Fed1
Originally posted by jacklo
Originally posted by lilHeala
Originally posted by jacklo

Just to emphasise, I don't care how many games have been released years ago with bugs or lack of content.

MMO's were a new concept back then, not that that's an excuse for bugs anyway. 

 

New mmo's are new as well, it all depends on how all the data is put together, the engine etc. and the live environment allways functions differently than the internal QA server, alpha server, beta server even if you have many folks testing on them still things can and will work differently once the masses are let free on it.

OS's aren't a new concept either and microsoft has made them for years yet they still can't release a bug free OS and even today there's still a shetload of windows xp bugs not fixed.

Oh c'mon, there's bugs, and there's BUGS. Don't take my post out of context.

No software is bug free, but there's a point where it gets beyond a joke.

And yet you or any others here have not mentioned a "Game Breaking" bug. If you think SWTOR has BUGS , then you simply do not like MMOs.

And regarding the other comments from posters about MMOs, wait til people play GW2 no healing no raids, instanced gathering ...

 

 

There are plenty of things to be wary about in GW2, but at least it'll be an MMO, unlike SWTOR. And who gives a shit if there's no raids? There's only been like 2 games with decent raiding.

Comical - I love this place. GW2 is lower on the MMO scale than SWTOR.

MMORRPG - Where SWTOR is the WOW CLONE THAT IS NOT A MMO - LOL

 

 

GW2 at least has an open world in most places, unlike SWTOR. And SWTOR is, without a doubt, a WoW clone.

Originally posted by Requiem6

Might worth it if it was free to play.

But it's not.

 

So I would say no. Don't waste your money on that old game.

Was good back then, but not anymore.

It's still far better than most MMOs, it's just nowhere near as good as it used to be.

Originally posted by Fed1
Originally posted by jacklo
Originally posted by lilHeala
Originally posted by jacklo

Just to emphasise, I don't care how many games have been released years ago with bugs or lack of content.

MMO's were a new concept back then, not that that's an excuse for bugs anyway. 

 

New mmo's are new as well, it all depends on how all the data is put together, the engine etc. and the live environment allways functions differently than the internal QA server, alpha server, beta server even if you have many folks testing on them still things can and will work differently once the masses are let free on it.

OS's aren't a new concept either and microsoft has made them for years yet they still can't release a bug free OS and even today there's still a shetload of windows xp bugs not fixed.

Oh c'mon, there's bugs, and there's BUGS. Don't take my post out of context.

No software is bug free, but there's a point where it gets beyond a joke.

And yet you or any others here have not mentioned a "Game Breaking" bug. If you think SWTOR has BUGS , then you simply do not like MMOs.

And regarding the other comments from posters about MMOs, wait til people play GW2 no healing no raids, instanced gathering ...

 

 

There are plenty of things to be wary about in GW2, but at least it'll be an MMO, unlike SWTOR. And who gives a shit if there's no raids? There's only been like 2 games with decent raiding.

The most expensive MMO ever made had no business launching in such a horrible state. But its clear Bioware has no idea how to make an MMO.

Originally posted by Starpower
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Starpower

If you can get past the combat mechanics then yes. I never liked not being able to cast spells just because something just hit you or shoot your bow because the mob is in melee range

But that just makes sense. To each their own I guess.

Maybe but I don't look for realism in MMOs. I look for the fun factor. That rarely includes realism

It's not just realism, it's balance. Having casting interrupted by melee is a balance against the insane amount of damage they do.

Originally posted by Yamota
Originally posted by Garvon3

First, SWTOR was the most expensive MMO ever made. EVER. BY FAR.

Second, it billed itself as an MMO.

 

What did we get? An MMO so small scale and unoriginal that people are bailing on it already. It's  not even remotely a good MMO and its barely an above average singleplayer game.

No, just because there are other bad games doesn't mean SWTOR wasn't also bad.

Also agree.

Originally posted by PurpleCliff

I consider The Old Republic to not be one - it's universe is too divided up with instances and load screens.

I consider World of Warcraft to be one, just - it's pretty open and immersive.)

Seriously. WoW? WoW is almost completely instanced. Just because it has no loading screens doesn't make it a seamless open world. Every dungeon is instanced. There's phasing left and right. No.

 

The last fully open seamless world was Vanguard. Or Darkfall if you don't count having to load into dungeons.

Originally posted by Sideras

We are just now starting to see innovation, Guild Wars 2 and The Secret World both take quite alot from DAoC in terms of PvP.

Not to mention the other things they have in store, dynamic events and exploration is Guild Wars 2 is looking really good.

Digging up old ideas isn't exactly innovation. It's a nice start though. I just wish they'd follow through. GW2 doesn't go as large scale with its RvR as DAoC did and TSW is instanced to hell and back. Barely even an MMO.

Originally posted by Blackbrrd
Originally posted by SignusM

It's Funcom. Their last time hawking a game was 90% lies. We'll wait and see.

And I hardly think they can revolutionize everything with how much instancing they're abusing.

They weren't lies, they were unfinished features that got dropped (drunken brawling for instance).

They were lies. They advertised that they had these features right up until launch day. Stuff like 8 directional combat, aiming spells and arrows, not being able to insta stealth, those were all dropped unfinished features? Please.

Originally posted by arieste
Originally posted by Garvon3

 

No dude, it isn't. All the best MMOs had open world environments with NO instancing. That was what made the MMO genre unique. MMOs with heavy instancing aren't even MMOs anymore. A SERVER is not the same as instancing any way you want to spin it.

If instancing and servers were the same thing they wouldn't have two different names.

Ok, let's do this, let's say you and I make plans to meet up in TSW,  we'll pick a common time and a common location.  We'll agree to meet there 6 months from today without talking to each prior to.

 


You say "all the best MMOs" blah blah blah.  First of all, this is bullshit, because even older MMOs - like AO - had instancing.  Second of, just because older MMOs didn't have something, doesn't make THAT the reason they were good.  "All the best" MMOs were also built for under 10,000 players (or under 50,000).  So i guess studios should stop pumping all this money into trying to produce MMOs for the masses, eh?    

 

[Mod Edit] You realize that MMOs of the past had 250k, 500k, and even 700k subscribers, right? And their servers were generally bigger and could support more people? And no, AO was the only oldschool MMO to launch with instancing.

Originally posted by Garvon3

I'll relate another one of my favorite DAoC memories. This will give an example of the SCALE MMOs once had, even on dial up. As tech has gotten better, this type of thing has become more and more impossible in modern MMOs for some reason.

 

So, in DAoC, there are 3 realms vying for control of a frontier. Each realm has their own frontier, divided by oceans. In those frontier are keeps, in a few of these keeps there are relics kept. These are insanely important and usually go to show who is dominating RvR at that point. These relics give bonuses to the realm that has them. Significant bonuses.

So, Albion had quite a few of the relics and Hibernia and Midgard wanted them back. Midgard and Hibernia entered into talks on message boards, plotting their revenge. Those of us in Albion had no idea what was about to happen.

One weekend, a massive Caer Sidi raid was scheduled. This type of thing usually involved several alliances (a group of guilds that shared a chat channel). So we probably had about 100 or so of our best level 50 players 5 hours deep into the hardest raid dungeon in the game.

Spies for the other realms in the alliance alerted their sides of this event. So, at a critical moment, Hibernia and Midgard attacked at the same time. There were about 400 Hibernians and 300 Midgard players running through the Albion frontier, crushing castle walls. Their goal was to take four of our main keeps. That would shut down our supply line and teleport network. With that done, they'd  move on to the relic keep. Without supplies the relic keep would be much less defended, they could crack it open and take the relics back to their realms.

 

So now the moment was on us. Alarms went out in every alliance chat calling EVERYONE to arms. All level 50s, even level 10s and 20s. The instructions were for everyone to scramble and meet at the relic keep. Someone made the decisive to cut our losses, and not try to defend the other keeps. As the storm of enemies moved through the frontier we had a massive stream of people moving to the relic keep, carrying wood and diagrams metal, materials. While most of us were at the keep setting up trebuchets, balistas, catapults, boiling oil (even the lowbies could run siege engines) a crack group of level 50s went out to stall the enemy. They made a last stand in the fourth keep, and stalled the enemy long enough for us to get defenders to the relic keep. We constantly got updates in the alliance feed on enemy locations and the status of allies running to defend. Finally, all became quiet for a while. The fourth keep had fallen and the combined 750 man force was coming towards us. At this point we'd gathered 500 men to fight, mostly lowbies in siege engines. We felt the lag before we saw the enemy, everything locked up and then snapped back into normal speed. We sat on a hill while we saw the two armies approach. Midgard was down to our left, Hibernia to the right. Thankfully the two armies distrusted one another and didn't merge together. They attacked in seperate waves, and I think that's what saved us. Between the three of us, it was a CONSTANT battle for hours. I had never, in my four years of playing, seen that many siege engines going. Fireballs were exploding everywhere an enemy showed up, players died, rezzed, and reentered the fight. Lowbies stayed on the walls helping where they could.

Eventually though, Albion was overwhelmed, the relics were taken and the castle destroyed. But we weren't done yet. To capture the relics, the enemy had to get them back to their home frontier, across the ocean. We set up a naval fleet and blockaded the ocean port. There was a fierce naval fight in the Irish Sea and in the ensuing scramble, the Midgard ship carrying the relics sank to the bottom of the sea, and the relics were lost until the next server maintainence.

That is still one of my fondest PvP memories, and it makes me shake my head wondering why no one tries to copy DAoC.

It seems the majority of people here have their fondest memories from games like EQ and DAoC. Mostly DAoC. I'd venture forward that games like LotRO and their like don't create or inspire many memories because their game mechanics don't bring you into the game. There are never any stakes, you're rarely with other people, there's nothing to create the kind of scenario above. No risk vs reward, no depth.

I'd also venture forth that DAoC had the best balance between PvE crafting and PvP of any MMO ever made.

Originally posted by Painlezz

The answer to this is VERY simple.  Unfortunately a huge majority (small number of people really) refuse to accept the answer.

EQ1, Ultima Online... These "hard-core" "good" MMO's you guys keep talking about had 100k maybe 200k total people playing them.  That was GOOD back in the day.  Modern MMO's have to push MILLIONS of people otherwise they're a modern day failure.

Er, EQ had about 500k, SWG had about 700-800k. That's better than the majority of modern day MMOs, and that was back in dial up days when almost no one was playing MMOs. So imagine what those games would have nowadays? And considering the budget and teams of those games were much smaller, I'd venture to say the success of those early games dwarf anything modern MMOs have acomplished other than WoW.

As for modern hardcore MMOs not getting many players, there haven't BEEN any hardcore AAA MMOs. You have a very warped memory I think. And because YOU enjoy modern MMOs, that's great! Play them! We're here because we're a massive chunk of people WITHOUT a game to play.

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