Originally posted by Midnitte

Hopefully it will be a new IP, that page should have shown Blizzard that they have depended on those 3 franchises for too long

New ip .. rofl diablo was there only original ip concept.

But why ruin a good think if they make a SC mmo people will pour out of everywhere to play it.

go play daoc on the classic servers. pm on mmo if ya want someone  to hang aroudn with once in a while, i have given up lookign for new better mmos because they are not being made.

Biggest failure Shadowbane... it is not that it tanked like so many mmos do.. it just it most likely had one of the best hypes that turned out rather poor.

As for EA i would agree... minus the fact that i think under the belt of mythic it gonna have the biggest mmo of 08.

Yeah when i was playing by liek the third week of it i was up to killign like 2 peopel at least in real life a week i just couldn't help myself you know and oh yeah i was an engineer and they make bombs so i made bomb and blew peoples houses up but you know i could quit anytime i wanted to but i didn't becuase i liked it ... then one daya  guildy stole my loot and i got made at him and so i killed him and then one day i ganked a peron liek 52 time ian  row and they were liek my husband will beat you up and so i was liek yeah right and so liek i hgave her my addresse and he came over and broke my legs with a  baseball bat ... let see what else happend oh yeah i am now dead becuase i was 28 and in south korea and  i was still playing wow (which may have been called starcraft) in an internet cafe for 49 hours stright and i died.


Hmm anyoen else want to add anythign really tho ... shut up . rofl no really , i  mean there are peopel who waste their lives away infront of the TV watchign sports and shit get super fat and have a heart attakc at 36 and die... i don't see people crying about  sports on the TV like they do about  games and the reason is simple adults don't really play as many games, so when kids and younger peopel do it s "bad" and "wrong" , yet their fat asses are glued to the couch because thats "ok".
Tho i do have to say games can be addicting, but not as much as books .. books do end but ther are always more books. I have read the entire wheel of time seires ina week. (if you can do this you can one READ SOOO very fast and 2 eat a bit and sleep a  few hours a day and then read the rest of the time).

In anycase this is just another stuiped situation created by poor parenting.

Well he just doesn't listen ... do you do anythign to uhh i don't know punish him , force him to do other things? Well i told him it wasn't good and my teeth are very bad (ok that last part was just in there because her teeth were very bad ... freaking gross.)

Oh and about the GF thing they are over rated becuase women are b*tches and guys are basterds ... SO true.

.. Why can i say basterd and thats cool but i don't feel B*tch is ok ??

"and honestly, Id MUCH rather be chilling out on my plush leather couch in front of my 42 inch plasma screen (with my home entertainment klipsch thx 7.1 sound) than be perched at my crappy desk in a crappy office chair like I am 10-12 hours a day at work to play a video game."

And you can't do this with a PC becuase?

Infact you can use 1 computer to both disply on a moniter and a tv the same thing or two different things.

So this has almost nothing to do with the platform of the game.

That being said as i have always stated i have no issue with having mmos on gaming platforms , however there is only one concern i never see anyoen talk about ... mainly becuase most people on these forums are noobs or dee de dees. What about the game like 3-4 year from release when game maker soften total overall the graphics and such ... they never play on the same platforms as before, other than on PC becuase you can upgrade those along with the games upgrades. Look at DAOC while it would have played on ps2 at its release i doubt the ps2 ability to run the game now. Eve maybe a better game to watch to example this point it could run strogn for another 4 years and i doubt the ps2 would be able to play it at all then.
The problem lie in the fact that if the game company sold the game for the x-box or ps3 they would not be able to upgrade it past the point where it would no longer be able to run on that system... ie it would tie the hands of the company and force the game to more or less die ... because like eve is showing mmos don't have to die or even die slowly they can grow as time passes.

That the only worry about mmo on x-box etc i have.  .. PS key board /mice should be REQUIRED.

Originally posted by tirallum

 

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Originally posted by MMoMoney

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Originally posted by lomiller

In actual fact casual/hardcore is about the intensity with witch you play a game and that mostly comes down to your scheduled and how much time you are willing to invest. There is no connection whatsoever between casual and simple.

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Ok, you're right, then by that definition being casual is only a characteristic of the kind of player I have a problem with. Should I replace all instances of "casual" with "noob"? Would that be any better?

You know what I was trying to say so why argue over semantics instead of arguing the point? Is it because you have no argument?

MMOs are focusing on "casual" playstyle because of the type of players I've described (mmo noobs).

There have always been players who can't put in as much time as the next guy. But MMOs continued in the previous style of requiring more time investment. It wasn't until WoW had become wildly successful amongst non MMO players that this newfound focus on games with less playtime, and therefore less content, happened.

A game being aimed at an audience with less playtime means developers can cut costs on developing content before release, because they know they have enough time to develop new content post-release before their intended audience will exhaust the original content.

A game being targeted at "MMO noobs" does not require sophisticatication, because "noobs" don't have enough experience with game mechanics to understand the greater potential that advanced tools can give to expression of their avatar.

"MMO noobs" are the cause of the switch to focus on "casual" gaming, and therefore are the cause of oversimplistic and substance-lacking MMOs.

Thank you professor, may I leave class now?

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Give every one the top armour and top gear with equal potions, and we'll see who the noob is. In my opinion this is the way to go if developers want to cater the casuals. Most of MMOs are fun until you cannot reach anywhere because of leveling differences between the hardcore and the casual. As you say, it's different to be casual than noob. You can go at your own pace, but what for? Just a time sink.

When you realize you'll *never* be able to reach somewhere in a game because you cannot invest enough time (not in quantity, but time spans) then frustation comes. And I do not mean not being able to win a match against that powerful uber player who (very wrongly) two shots you. I mean to reach content of the game.

But without going into content, and just between players, it's not about simple or complicated, it just that your Sword-of-Doom crits me for 4000 and I die, while you have 2x life and resistance than me. Complicated, yeah, for the casual! Along with that line, the rewards for the powerful players are just more powerful items, which just imbalances the game even more.

WoW tried to arrange this problem (and met failure in my opinion) with the expansion trying to level a bit the playing field of the equipment. But you'll still find people with 2x your hit points or damage and with that Sword-of-Owness. When the expansion went out, all the warriors were crying on forums how gimped they were, because they're wearing greens of blues from the quests and 5 men instances. After a few months most of them have their gladiator suit and epic axe, and will literally rape you whatever your class with their eyes closed.

Even with that, all the "hardcore" players are crying on forums that the new items "aren't worth the effort" lol because, even with these epics, the "noobs" give them a hard time (yes, before the expansion the situation was even more xtreme).

All in all, PvP in an mmorpg is greatly flawed. Equipment and levels are just the carrot on the stick to make players stay in the game. But I see shot'em ups without levels or equipment, and they've stayed aroud for longer time.

This never will happen in daoc unless you dience that all armor and equipment should be banned.

Originally posted by Abolith
Well, if the table top community can be a hint as to the community in the MMO -- it's is going to be kiddie heaven.

HAHAHA - this is the best post i have seen in like a month omg so owned the  entire warhammer community great job man.

I can build a comp that will run any game out well for 4 year... very easy.

Great thing is in 2-4 year if ya want more preforms 100-300 dollars will get you another few years of better preformence.

Originally posted by Carl132p

Originally posted by Jetrpg


But at anyrate , i just started playing daoc again its wonderful, its graphics are as good as many of the mmos comign out .. most of the mmos coming out .. which is sad for those new mmos.

hehe not so much not that it matters but daocs graphics arent as good as the games out now let alone the ones coming up. I heard someone claim this about everquest too its not true at all. They are still Amazing games you just cant claim any kind of competition graphic wise

Really look at fallen earth , dungeon runners, Tabula rasam G& H , heros journy, PotBS, hmm maybe its not my my words that do not hold weight? What do you think really go look these games up ... mythos too there is another one.

These are yet to be released games mind you.. and daoc's graphics are equal or better.... . Now if you are comparing them to the best looking mmos coming out you are right , but that not what i said at all.

"Lies, lies and more lies about finding a group.  What is it, Mythic running some kind of special to promote the game?"
Ill send pics to anyone willing to host them if they wish to see my in a  full group within the last few days.

Originally posted by Sandcastle

Originally posted by Jetrpg

Originally posted by Sandcastle

[...]

As cann be seen here, a lot of important people are breaking off from the dinosaur companies and goes into the world of danger and venture. What is this telling us about the MMO industry? Do these developers feel restricted after many years of MMO-making in the said companies?

[...]

No these people didn't break off they got their asses fired. Well more realistic they were fired becuase that was big co. do after you make a game for them ... they fire you.

These people didn't want to just get hired to be fired agian so they are makign their own companies so that when they make a game they see the profits for their work and so they can fire the people the later hire , just like the big co.s did to them ... its a good busisness you know.

This is said sarcasticly but its the sad truth .... unions for game makers rofl.

Can you confirm that situation for all the developers above? Are you also sure that other current MMO companies won't hire them just because a bigger dude "fired" someone?

Woah, the murky air of pessimism is strong. Come on, let's show some support for these guys and the indie community. You guys make it sound as if Gamasutra will never ever have any good news for the industry anymore.

EDIT: To your edit above, maybe I misread or just do not plainly understand the tone of your message. But yeah, the bigger companies do that. Can't blame them with their huge gambles with each titles.

Huge gambles rarely have anythign to do with firing peoples. Oh should i call it leaving or people going their own way, how about seeking other oprituntities. Oh and if you don't agree to maintain that position you lose your leaving pay. :)

This is how the the corp. world works.

But again i feel that these people are peopel with talent and good prespectives .. they are run by game makers themselves not money grubbing businessmen. I was simiply saying that one of the large reason why there are many producess comign out like this is because big co. keep firing their staff.

Originally posted by Dbknn

Originally posted by Aerendir

Originally posted by Dbknn

Originally posted by Aerendir

 I want to have weapons, armor, and items that other people don't. That is honestly one of the biggest drives for a lot of MMO players.

you are kidding, right? how pathetic of a person do you have to be to sit there and type this with a straight face.

Alright, then tell me, what drives you to play?

What drives me to play? very good question. i play online games to form a tight group of friends that i can rely on that play the same hours that i do being 1-2 hours tops a night. we play togethor in a group lvl up togethor pvp togethor, you name it. ive been playing with the same people for 10 years now in mmo's. we are all very aware of what eachother are capable of doing in pvp. i play games to pvp because it brings a very competative edge that i find very enjoyable when i play games. my group depending on the game will spend days forming stategies that work against different classes in class based games and go over different aspects of pvp so when we fight people in the field we demolish them.

Quote this sh*t, for the truth. Play daoc or even l2 (not as bad as many say) bit in cox . and understand what it is to be playing an mmo not just some instances chat room. good post Dbknn

Originally posted by Aleaa
I have a suggestion that may seem a bit excessive but might have a positive impact.  It is for the removal of the SWG forum.  It would do two very important things.  First, it would eliminate the strife and grief that many of us project onto your wonderful website.  MMORPG.COM was started, I image, to promote a fun place for people to discuss their game.  SWG has taken a turn "to the dark side" and many people come here simply to complain.  SOE will not change SWG back to the original game and I think it is fair to say that everything that has been said about the subject has been said already.  Others who do still play the game are far and few between and they would still have a place to go in the SWG Forums at SOE. 

Secondly, MMORPG.COM's removal of the SWG forum would send a message to SOE.  It will inform them that their game is dying.  It might even motivate them to fix their game and making it entertaining once again, by whatever means they feel appropriate.  The negativity on this forum, even with my own posts, has had its therapeutic value to those of  us who feel betrayed or belittled by SOE.  But it's been years now.  The healing process should be complete. 

This post wasn't intended as a flame magnet or for trolling.  It was a serious suggestion to remove the forum (and perhaps get on with our gaming lives).  Thanks.

Wait wait wait ... let me get this right you are CRYING  about the CRYERS.

Matthew 7:2-4  - http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew%207;&version=31

there ya go even if your not a christian i think it applies.

Also i have to add - its not liek you have to go to the SWg forum if you don't  like it ignore /avoid it.

Wonderful . hehe this i hope i can mod my ui and they can't ownage ftw :)

PS told you so.

PS let them use a keyboard and mouse not the evil looking thing you just showed.

Originally posted by jaredc
im still in the process of downloading. so should i just exit out  now??

I instealed and played it for like 5 min then i exited then i deleted it and then i was like omfg i can't believe i just used bandwidth to download that im sorry isp im sorry router im sorry harddrive.

Answer your question?

Id say Warhammer epic is darker than 40k even.

But WAr the mmo is gonna me kiddy its made to be wow to the second power with rvr . This may not be that bad i liked wow but it lacked good pvp and the end game was super bad. So i will most likely be happy with it.

Better then LotRO which is wow version 0.5 rofl .

"I don't see how WoW is kiddie?" - it is

"WAR will not be a happy amusement park. " word are words and thats all , it will be dark when it is dark not when they say it is.
"Also, complexity does not mean the player base will be any more mature. " - sure you get asses in these games, but you do cull the dumb mmoers thats for sure.

Kelsonmac is right atm WAr is kiddy, look at everythign they have realsed its kiddy. a catapult launching orger is not , not kiddy unless he splats hard and bloody otherwise is cartoon slapstick.

"But for some laughs, go check out that site. There is a "PVP" thread where it is suggested that there be a "staging area for people to prepare for pvp" and also a hearty discussion about "pvp music". I don't think these people know what PVP is, nor do they appreciate how fun and intense it can be."

I agree atm wars pvp will not be great good maybe but not great. Instance pvp CAN NOT BE GREAT  unless its an no player cap open instance ie daoc Battle ground.  Part of the greatness of pvp is challenge well everything equal everything the same instances =/ challenge they = made for dumb lazy mmoers.

While i am note sure about his claims of shutting down the site , i have been wacked at WA becuase a logn tiem ago everyone wanted etc and the mythic came out and said well we diecied not to do it. and the 95% of the poster there are total fanboys and they were like omg mythics so smart great idea, not to do what we thought  (and is) a good idea. So i was like no that is really dumb , it smuch better this way .... mythic proved this they swore by it in daoc and other projects they thought of. Now they are just not doing it??? Why becuase they want the freakign dumb wow money .. the responce omg no Mythics not like that ...  blahh blahh blahh... later in a vid a mythic rep said sure we want to make the most money we can and well do what it take to make it.... I was right B**ch yet i was still told not to talk about it way back when ... becuase why becuase they did not want to hear that mythic had sold out for the cash. There is a useless community right their.

thats not to say mythic is not a good developer , i still think they are the best ... i simply believe they sold out some , they still want to make a good mmo and i have every belief that they will, but i feel it will not be as good as they could have made it ... for the ability to steal WoW players.

Originally posted by healz4u
MMORPGs today have cheapened the concept of a Quest and confused it with a task; if their aim was to reduce a Quest to a task, they have succeeded.  What is a task?  What is a Quest?  I raise these questions because completing a quest has a sense of honor and accomplishment to it.  However, completing a task does or should not; it gives a small sense of accomplishment (if any). 


Developers need to create a task key and a Quest key.  Nevertheless, it is appropriately (but will not always be the case) for a Quest to have "steps" to it.  However, it is not necessarily true for all Quests. 


Definitions

Quest:   a journey.

A quest usually transcends levels, requires a considerable amount of time and travel, and generally results in a great reward or some honor.  The focus of the quest is to define your character and in doing so feel apart of the lore of the game. 

Example:  as a young Paladin, you were told about corruption in the ranks of the King's guard.  At level 5, you were charged with discovering documents in a bandit warehouse that indicated this (the warehouse was a fairly easy but fun dungeon crawl).  You were subsequently charged to infiltrate a crime-lord's mansion in the city center at level 15 and arrest him (it was a challenging dungeon crawl at 15).  You practice your negotiation skills on the crime-lord and extract information that leads to the names of the corrupt King's guards.  You learn of a plan to poison the King  (a rogue might have a similar quest to poison the king).  Your commanding Officer, Saint (highest Paladin rank) Grenias charges you with thwarting the plans.  You defeat the corrupt guard(s), which was a very challenging fight.  The King learns of your accomplishment, you subsequently are entered into his loyal retinue of bodyguards (you acquire title - Saint/Sir, a ring to prove membership in the King's guard, access to the King's shops, and a new skill/ability - Heart of the Paladin, ac/str buff).  Upon completing this quest, two quest lines open - one, in service to the Paladin Order, as you are now Saint/Sir.  Two, as a member of the king's bodyguard, new quest line opens up.  If you chose to be a "Shadowknight," you could have joined the corrupt guards and poison the king (who would survive, most-likely). 

Note:  You see how a Shadowknight, Rogue, and Paladin (maybe even a Cleric and other classes if they wanted to join the king's bodyguard) would have similar interlinked quests?  A Rogue could poison the King;  a Shadowknight could join the corrupt guards; a Paladin could attempt to stop it; a Cleric could revive the King; and so forth.


Task:  a job.

A task is usually completed in the same level, does not require a lot of time or travel, and is completed to gain experience, train skills/abilities, or money.  The focus of the task is to complete it and advance your character and obtain nominal rewards. 

Example:  collect 15 boar hides, deliver this note, kill the bandit ring-leader. 


Illustration
                                              Quest                     Task
Exp                                            -                               +
Reward                                      +                               -

Acctuly DAoc has then done well , and eve uses mission not quests... but still what does a term mean ... quest in the context of mmo basicly are tasks.

So far daoc and eve have had the best end game.

DAoc is the rvr "hamster wheel" pvp that is pretty fun.  (it was almost more fun before the realm rank system)

Eve has no end game so .... but other than that eve is always rather boring... much of the game is based on mining and killing npc there is pvp but it rarey pays for itself. Still youll never hit end game.

Id be fine with pre nge :)

no but really nge is soo bad

Originally posted by Sandcastle

[...]

As cann be seen here, a lot of important people are breaking off from the dinosaur companies and goes into the world of danger and venture. What is this telling us about the MMO industry? Do these developers feel restricted after many years of MMO-making in the said companies?

[...]

No these people didn't break off they got their asses fired. Well more realistic they were fired becuase that was big co. do after you make a game for them ... they fire you.

These people didn't want to just get hired to be fired agian so they are makign their own companies so that when they make a game they see the profits for their work and so they can fire the people the later hire , just like the big co.s did to them ... its a good busisness you know.

This is said sarcasticly but its the sad truth .... unions for game makers rofl.

oh in-regard to sand's post under this one --- I am not saying that they will not make good games ... i berlieve red 5  will make soem GREAT games , it just the reason why they are making their own companies that i was addressing. :)

Originally posted by Epeen
It is going to be tough to have faith in mythic since they were responsible for the demon that was ToA... the very expansion pack  that killed  off 30%+ of Daocs fanbase.

If you ask me this was just an excuse TOA was even funish.


But at anyrate , i just started playing daoc again its wonderful, its graphics are as good as many of the mmos comign out .. most of the mmos coming out .. which is sad for those new mmos.

At anyrate the game is just so darn fun combat and class diversity is so great keeps me playing and having fun... i have pvp lvls 4-24 so far... thats right. I exped some too but every few levels ill rvr it up some so darn fun.

"Servers are so empty it is pathetic." -- they are why can i get a group at anytime i want... oh i know your problem your one of those lazy people who want people to build a group for you... get off your ass and starting inviting people to exp or rvr and youll never be without a group.

For the last 3 weeks i ahve played daoc ... when ever i wanted a group i had it then and their 1 -2 minutes max. Amazing huh. .. sometimes id start them sometimes they would be groups already formed.

"... do not provide the capability by which power gamers can completely dominate everyone else" And how do they in DAoc .. just wonderign becuase i have rarly had this problem... I have been out skilled in daoc tho , potion poping item usign fruits who totaly out played me. I have ran with pugs and got own by guild groups ... but what game will that not happen in. I have been outnumbered... oh it sucks right they have 2x the numbers as we do.... not really lrean to play all that mean is more kills for me and my group .... PUG thid  just yesterday my 8 man vs 16hibs ... we won with 3 standing... with a pug im sure they were a pug too but still in daoc no toon can be too eleet to kill.  Thsi si even more true on classic servers.

FASA has it right if you ask me ... it simply that most of the players of the game already played it soo much that well it was time to move on. (i know that is the reason why i left). But still the game offers more fun than many other games so im back to have soem fun for a bit.