When I was playing I ran across quite a few people who came from WoW, though, a lot of them still had an active WoW sub and would split the time.  Overall very hard to quantify who is taking what. 

The best thing for us gamers would probably be seeing the big MMO's pull in new people rather than "cannibalize" the current game community.  Maybe that's where some of the hate comes from - when people who like their game see that SWTOR is really pushing to target their game community by running ads on their game's community sites (not official sites), etc.  Just a thought.

I somehow don't think we would have complained so hard about a lot of the bugs if other functions were implemented or worked.  For example

- no guild bank and not able to add offline friends annoys me

- then I get the bug where my companion wants to talk to me but the icon disappears when I get to my ship (patch notes have said this is fixed but guess what? not fixed for me.  First two companions haven't given me a cutscene since I met them).

- then I decide to go quest, get 20 minutes into my big green doored instance on a big class quest, get disconnected for no reason, log back in to find myself outside the green door. 

At this point none of this is technically "game breaking" but my frustration level is high and I'm just not having fun.  I end up saying screw it I'm going to logout for now and play/do something else.  Right there would actually be the "game breaking."

I think Creslin nailed it... I was hoping for some good news that might get me to re-sub at the end of my current time but not seeing it.

Many things frustrating about pvp in this game but three things that could help:

1) Penalty for leaving early.  I can now spot who is a "ragequitter" on my server and sure enough if my team gets down at the start those people leave the ops group immediately, leaving my group short handed.

2) Get some brackets... or something to seperate the new from vet.  Yeah that's great the stats are leveled and all but the fact is an entry level character doesn't know how to play their class as well as a higher level.  I got tired of low levels that had no idea how to play their class as a team - only knew how to spam their 3 or 4 abilities running around out in the open or on balconies, trying  to top the charts for dps while our team lost. 

3) "WZ will cancel if no more join" and then a few people join shortly into the game so it doesn't cancel - but by then your team is already down 1-0 or lost 2 nodes, etc and has to fight the uphill battle.  How can this happen when the waiting times are either instant or less than a few minutes???

Well, I just canceled tonight and what I wrote on the cancel form was basically:

PVE - serious lack of customization - need a better variety of gear even if it's just appearance, skills (dual spec or just the ability to use a few more weapon types, classes feel SO limited).

PVP - so many stuns killed the fun for me - it was like continually hitting the pause button during a movie's action sequence.  That won't change but one thing is there could be more maps or a choice to pick the WZ, I got Huttball 8 out of 10 times and I truly hate that game/map.  I would gladly wait for one of the other two if possible.

Space - just awful... scrap it or give us options to choose different levels so we don't have to beat a mission with 3 minutes left to just sit there and wait for our railcar to cross the finish line.

Companions - How dumb was I, I thought we would be able to pick which companions we want and only keep them if we made the right dark/light choices like the old Baldur's Gate type games.  I was an agent and made it to level 32 with only 2 companions.  Ok fine but the game was advertised as having all these companions you can bring out whichever one fits your style at anytime - well maybe at 50 when you get all your companions but then your story is finished!

I might be back but seriously doubt it since the flaws to me were really made way back in the design process.

I'm hanging on to SWTOR because I bought the CE and said, "This is going to be my game!" .... BUT, I have to admit I am disappointed so far and already hear WoW calling me back.  Damned if EA didn't  add neon swords to Ultima Online in the first place or I'd still be there!!!

Imo BW screwed up the single player part too -

can't pick your companions and have the light/dark choices affect who stays and goes. 

No variety in starships (even an option of 2 like the advanced class, like you get either a "piece of junk" or "luxury yacht"). 

Voice overs - really disappointing for such a big selling point - constantly get people saying their voice doesn't fit the character they created.  I'd rather read text than hear my jedi knight talk again... thankfully i also have a female agent who balances this out a bit.

Bottom line for me is an MMO is supposed to let you create your character and find your adventure.  In this game BW essentially creates everything about your character except the race, weight, and skin tone.

*edit - I don't mean to be so negative... there are a lot of good things about SWTOR and I'm hoping to stay, but I would like to see some things get worked on now that I've been in it a few months...

In short, I'll be playing this game even though I really only like the classic star wars movies and games.

I created a Bounty Hunter this last beta weekend and wow was I impressed.  The starter planet and quests were ok, but in my opinion the game went from fun to great when I got  the ability where you fly in the air and obliterate an area with supreme firepower, and then from great to awesome when I got my starship. 

As a classic star wars geek I wasn't about to fly to Balmorra for my next quest... I'm freakin going to Hoth and Tatooine regardless of level!  Granted I couldn't quest on these planets but they wet my appetite for release just by visiting them around the space ports.  Hoth made me dock at a space station and then take a shuttle to the desolate surface.  The Imp station felt like it could very much fit right into ESB.

Tatooine captured the feel of ANH with walking through groups of Imperials harrasing the local citizens.

The starship was great too - even though I knew it was very Boba Fett like and expected as much, it still impressed me with the design and feel, not to mention all you can do on it.  Plus the story to get it was great  and nice that you didn't just go to some npc and "train" in getting a starship.

So just throwing it out there if you're like me, a somewhat disgruntled Star Wars fan let down by SWG and wishing for a good Star Wars game, I think Bioware has done the name justice... and then some.  

Please correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure there is only 1 server actually, and the PVE / PVP option you get when Catwoman is looking at you on the character creation screen is only regarding the option to be flagged pvp.  That doesn't really affect this post but thought I'd throw it out there for an fyi.

I hate to sound like an apologist because I've been Legendary and hit with a lot of similar issues as you mentioned, but after considering everything I do believe SOE was in uncharted waters here.  I don't think we can really compare their F2P launch to CO, CoH, or even LOTR because I believe the DC name goes beyond any of those in popularity - and they've been advertising and marketing.  A relative of mine who doesn't play games at all asked me the other day if I was going to play DC online and I was like "What? you KNOW about that game?"

This game still has a lot going for it, mainly the fact that it is DC, it is actually a lot of fun to play, and the free model is better than the other hero games out there, imo.  I am one who canceled my subscription this weekend to avoid getting charged on Nov 4 because I was mad about the issues and will not pay to hang on a loading screen.  However, after playing CO for awhile I am willing to wait it out on DC and re-up when they get things fixed.  As a comic fan, it's just too fun working with the Joker and causing all kinds of trouble for those annoying do-gooders running around Gotham, or playing AS the Joker in legends PVP

I feel your pain man... I was a subscriber and never had any gameplay or login issues or anything wrong before F2P.  Since they launched F2P I've been able to login and play only once and I've tried multiple times per day.   After a few tries I go to the forums and sure enough multiple people have usually already posted about the issue I myself am having at the time. 

My re-up date was 11/4 and needless to say I went in and cancelled the subscription so I wouldn't be paying to NOT play.  I've been playing Champions while I wait for DC to get straightened out but I may just stay with CO.  Unfortunately for SOE there are plenty of decent MMO's out there right now and if the average user can't get the game to run (even if it's user config's fault), that could be a killer to DCUO.  I'm willing to give them a little more time though as a free player.

You know you can change the keybinds just like any other game right?  I've had no problems with mouse/keyboard but then again I was killing people piloting ships in SWG way back when with mouse/keyboard, so maybe the setup and logic is just easier for some.

I don't care about spoilers, really (That being said I will try to be considerate of others who care).  I'm playing it because it's a Star Wars MMO, so I'll be MMO'ing.  If it's fun to play with other people then I'll play, if not, then I'll go back to the single player games every once in awhile for my Star Wars fix and save $15/month.

Really I'd only be "spoiled" if that hot tail in the slave bikini I'll be chasin' turns out to be hot tail in a slave bikini in real, but that's not the spoiled you're looking for... move along...

Yeah, for anyone coming from CO or CoH the character creator is terrible - BUT, I will say that costumes are looted and rewarded as you play more like traditional fantasy games. 

For example, I wanted a tech hero with a suit of armor and the initial creator is terrible for it, but, once I was past the tutorial I found a cool set of gloves that looked like they had blasters on them right away off a vendor, then a few other pieces as I quested. 

The color pallette (only 3 colors allowed on your character) stinks though and the body size and look is more fixed like WoW than on par with the other superhero games, sadly. 

IMO for a PC player the draw is the DC Universe more than anything.  I've played on and off since launch and it's always fun for awhile until I realize there's hardly anyone around to group with or just hang out, help, or whatever.  The single player tuturial kinda gives you a clue, compared to say the Champions tutorial where you're thrown in with other players (as it should be). 

Maybe FTP will give the game life...

*edited for clarity

Thanks for the report!

I've killed many people in WoW and other games with better gear, higher levels, etc.  If you not only know your class but know how it plays against others classes' strengths and weaknesses then you will usually have an advantage.

I don't care how they design pvp or pve - if it's fun I'll play the heck out of it!

The C-Store is way out of balance with what is obtainable in the game for a $15/mo sub (WoW by comparison has 1 mount and under 10 little useless companion pets).   I also got hit with the "Look what's in the C-Store" as the main "news" everytime I logged in which didn't help my impression of the game setup.

I just remember my cousin and I getting so excited to be smugglers at launch in SWG.  Then we played the game and spent hours beating up on small critters and their homes, with the highlight of watching those poor critters, who really didn't do anything to deserve our wrath, die and have their house explode like the death star.  But it wasn't the death star.  It was a poor critters home that had nothing to do with smuggling.  Then my cousin and I quit. 

Then we came back for the NGE when we heard it was on the test server and all I remember is standing outside the Millenium Falcon listening to somebody (Han maybe?) yelling "Get on the ship kid, this place is gonna blow!" But I never could get on that ship.  Then the NGE went live.  Then we quit again.  SWG2?  No freakin' thanks.

I will be trying TOR, though, because it is Bioware, and I've loved all their single player games and I'll gladly give them the benefit of the doubt at trying an MMO.  I figure worse case I buy the game and play through the story a few times and still get my money's worth.  Just wish the collector's edition wasn't so steep in price, ouch.

I'd like to add that a Logitech F310 (I think around $20 and looks exactly like a PS3 controller) changes this game GREATLY.  It's still awkward to do some things if you're used to the traditional PC mmo, but I love combat with a controller (Note: You have to "calibrate" the joystick from the startup box where you login, not the game itself, or else you'll have mixed up X and Y axis).  I even saw a bundle deal at Target recently where you get a discount on DCO if you buy the controller, though not much of a discount from what I vaguely remember.

That being said, I played at launch and just tried the game again since I'm in flux on where to go in an mmo right now.  I'm really trying to like this game but sadly the character creation, lack of people, and difficult way to socialize is just killing it for me.  I mean, only 3 colors for everything you wear???  In my humble opinion it's hard to create a character that isn't either a bad looking knock off of one of the popular DC characters or something just stupid, like a 1980's Mad Max over-spiked bad guy (No offense to the over-spiked people out there).  I haven't experienced the bugs but I would almost expect them to be there after my total frustration with trying to use aspects of the UI.

I'm a DC fanboy but ugh this last year or so has been rough... at least we have the Batman movies.

*Edited to add note about calibrating joystick

I bought this game for $15 and will not be subbing, mainly because of the C-Store and the lack of immersion.  I already touched on the C-Store in another post (don't mind cash shop but too much there), but one thing I feel a Star Trek game should have is a bridge with a crew that you actually USE.   The Bridges are useless in this game and your BO's feel very lacking even though they are customizable with look and skill.  Given it's an MMO I would have guessed I, as a tactical officer, could have jumped in another player's ship and manned a tactical station somehow, but really it's just the lack of a bridge and crew that I feel attached too... I know that sounds silly haha.

Honestly, this game just made me want to quit and go load Star Trek 25th Anniversary or Judgement Rites.  Watching my crew work at their stations while I blew things up on the viewscreen, sitting in my captain's chair, watching my little radar to try and outmanuever the enemy, well that felt much more like Star Trek to me.   Too bad those old games have terrible graphics and I can't make my own captain and crew... oh well.

I'm one of those that recently added to the population, but I'm not staying.  I saw it for $15 and said what the hell I'll try it.  The tutorial and first bit of the game was way better than I expected.  Then I looked at the cash shop was really turned off.  I knew it had a cash shop but after learning the game a bit I was surprised they charge a $15/month sub with so much of the cool "Star Trek" stuff only available through the cash shop/C-Store.  If you're a Star Trek fan that really likes one of the series/movies and know the look and feel, then you have to pony up to feel Star Treky in this game.

Ironic part is I am planning to use my "Atari" Tokens on the Champions Online C-Store since my tokens are good there and that game is free.  Though maybe I'll sit on them a bit to see if STO goes free.

Speaking of Star Trek, that was my first experience with a monthly fee + cash shop after playing WoW for years.  I liked the game but couldn't stomach the cash shop, or at least the balance of items for gold vs for cash, and came back to WoW.  After jumping around other games and seeing how many things Blizzard has done right I would personally give them a chance before judging.  At least at present Blizzard's stuff in their cash store is not only cosmetic but there are a ton of other similar options available for in game gold (i.e. mounts).  

The other factor is the current gold spammers and hackers.  If a real cash auction house killed them, or at least re-routed the cash to something like a guild that actually played honestly, then that would definitely be a positive imho.

I've peeked in at the conversation over on stratics a few times and I'd have to agree with Ocllo, the UO we loved is likely gone forever.  I don't know how many old Vets would come back or even know about it, and I'm not all that excited to join the community that is there. 

My feeling on "classic" servers is usually pretty negative, mainly for the A) split community, and B) It's never as good the second time around. 

However, having said that, I'm thinking this could be the perfect time for this!  It may just be me, but I feel kinda an overall sense of tiredness or disappointment from the MMO community that so many newer titles have failed to deliver.  Personally I've been trying to get off WoW for awhile now, but I'm decently established there and other games, even LOTR, seem cool, but do I want to spend time from level 1 just playing the same general type of game I've played in WoW? No... Give me the excitement of an approaching PK, give me the strategy of comabt in UO... to go back to my first love and first experience ever in MMO's, now that could be something, now I'm getting excited again!