Originally posted by teakbois
I am usually not onboard the using xfire as a tool for popuation judgment bandwagon, but EvE has 892 xfire users and we know that it is somewhere around 375k subs.  SWTOR is at 1353 users.  I think both games probably have a similar age breakdown therefore probably a similar liklihood to use xfire.

Xfire is a questionable tool as a linear "success" gauge, however, it can give you good trend analysis, and is certainly better than using nothing but pure speculation, as the OP has. 

It's fair to say that their sub numbers are probably a good bit lower than where they projected them to be, but 200k is just silly. 

Originally posted by MMOman101

I am serious, I don't follow games nearly as much as many people here. 

 The entire game is funneled?  That does not seem like a very good idea for an MMO.  That is kind of surprising.  I know DA and ME are very funneled, and I guess I should have seen that coming, but it still does not make sense to make a MMO world the same way you make a single player game world. 

 I am not calling you a liar, but I just find it hard to beleive a company could actually make an MMO and not have large open areas.  A field is more fun than a hallway and a giant room is more fun than a closet. 

 Hopefully someone else will come along with some information about a world that is more open in this game.

You're looking for a non-cynical answer to your question here??? 

Places like Coruscant and Nar Shadaa, as well as some ship and building interiors are like what you've experienced so far.  Compare that to about a dozen or so planets in total, most of which are outside.

Other areas, such as Tatooinne are pretty much wide open and you can access about 90% of the actual zone.  Some mountain tops and things are inaccessible, like any other game.  Other planets meet somewhere in the middle with regards to accessibility to given areas.  So the implication from some people that you'll be running down corridors to max is either BS, or an assumption brought on by playing about as far as you have.

There's some truth in what Karteli is saying regarding the actual gameplay:

1.  The storyline IS linear.  It reminds me of the Vin Diesel line in Fast and Furious, "You can have any beer you want, as long as it's a Corona."  Your personal story follows from quest hub to quest hub, and there's not much reason to land on a planet and "go your own way".  All the quests are laid out in a way in which any deviation from the "path" will involve you returning to the same quest areas multiple times. 

2.  The order of the planets that you visit on both sides is mostly the same.  This brings about a "sameness" when playing the opposite faction, despite each having their own content.

3.  If you're into PvP, you should be aware that the faction zones tend to be heavily gated from each other.  Tatooinne is probably the most open, despite a tiny little bridge being the only access between the strictly faction territories, and the Jundland wastes being the only place where factions have any nondeliberate opportunity to run into each other.  Opposing cities are also "exhaustion blocked" or  the planet is "faction repurposed" into an "alternate reality".

I hope that's a bit closer to what you were asking for...

Originally posted by mmoguy43
Here is a thought. Since there are so many MMOs to choose from and many of them are F2P, more and more players seem to be reluctant to buy subscription MMOs from the start or subscribe to them after the first month. Now I have no idea how many players there are that are like this but ironicly couldn't this fear of it going F2P contribute to MMOs being forced into becoming F2P?

Dunno if any game developer will feel forced to become F2P right off the bat.  But I'd bet that you'll see more and more MMO's being designed around going F2P at some point.  Not that I'm saying that that should alleviate yours or any our concerns regarding what F2P may come to eventually mean...

But so long as there would be anyone willing to pay a sub price for their game, they will probably want to keep that option available, even when they design it to be a F2P game.  A bird in the hand($15 sub) vs. 2 in the bush(MT's that may be more, may be less), etc.

Originally posted by Kuppa

If you look at those two scenarios they basically go like this:

Target Scenario

• Client sales 30% higher than AoC
• Majority of digital client sales
• Subs/client price as AoC
• In-game store sales/uptic amounting to 35% of subs. revenue
• Healty retention; 490,000 average subs

Conan-like scenario

• 1,050,000 client sales first year
• Poor retention (a bit better than AoC) 280,00 average subs
• Other assumptions as above

 

When we look at this we can deduce the game sold less than 1M clients and it has less than 280k subs. And going by this statement: " but based on the available early data, one scenario is that sales for the first 12 months following launch will be less than half of what was presented in the "Conan-like" scenario. "

They expect to sell less than 500k clients in the first 12 months.

 

They need to follow the Rift marketing strategy.  The digital box should be 40 bucks now, if not cheaper.  Add some in game items, and keep dropping that box price about 5 bucks a month.  Every potential player that's not playing because they won't commit to the big upfront box charge is a player who ALSO isn't buying anything in the cash shop, or being around to keep dungeons accessible and/or filling up the game world. 

Remove that big upfront commitment cost ASAP.  Everyone who was willing to buy it at $50-60 has already bought it.  Time to reverse auction that biznitch... :P 

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Airhead80

... We will never break the habit. No matter how much you try to convince yourself that you wont resub, you will. Curiousity will get the better of you, you will want to see first-hand what MOP is about. Love it or hate it. Without a doubt, WoW is the most popular fallback MMO and most of us will do anything we can to try and rekindle that love for the game that we once had. Blizz are going to experiance a massive surge in population with the release of MOP.

Ita only a matter of time! 

I can play a Panda in several games already. I genuinely have no interest in resubbing to WOW.

Same here.  And it's not just the panda thing; the feature list from top to bottom lists not a thing that appeals to me.  Maybe the monk class, I guess?  Not nearly enough.  And I ordered Cataclysm and sincerely enjoyed it for about 3 months.  I don't regret the purchase.

But werewolves much much MUCH > Pandas...

Besides... between LotRO RoR and GW2 I'm gonna be set for a good while.

For me, more is always better than less in CC... unless they implement a horrible UI for it.  CoX was plenty, and AoC was good, too.

Biggest thing that annoys me when they're lacking are a variety of body types; mass and height.  It seems insanely silly to have a human Mage or Warlock in WoW that makes Ah-nuld look like Ally McBeal.

TOR's inadequacy here also can't be overstated.  Little skinny guy, overly big/tall guy, or retired defensive lineman.  What a choice... 

As others have said, faces are quite often hidden under gear, but different body types can change the whole look of an armor set.  Being able to add/subtract mass and height ala CoX or AoC is right about perfect, in my book.  I could have my somewhat tall, lanky HoX, a short, bulky Conqueror, and anything in between.

I'll go at the speed it interests me to go.  None of the driving forces that make me want to rush to max level are present in this game.  And that's a good thing. 

If I play for long hours, it's because the gameplay compels me to.

Originally posted by Meltdown
How do you define content? I think that would help. As I can think of games like Red Stone which could take 100s of hours to level... but do I consider that "content"? is a very subjective question.

This is pretty much it, especially with the OP qualifying the whole thing with content you're "not being forced" to do.  Most games don't require you to craft or explore.  Or in the more specific case of LotRO, you're not forced to complete deeds or run skirmishes... or dungeons... grind legacy experience, run tasks, or turn in reputation.  Yet those are things that can easily double the amount of time taken to level.

Are we to define content as stuff that gives you XP?  If so, they don't call 'em "Korean grinders" for nuttin.  If you want long times between levels, that's where ya should look.

With WoW having cranked up advancement speed to 60 about 500%, I'd put LotRO or CoX(ungrouped) among the longest to level, these days, but even then, only 2-3 months of non-hardcore playing are about all it takes.  My first LotRO character took 5-6 months, but I spent alot of time doing non-levelling activities; even maxed my fishing skill before I hit 30.

If EQ2 takes particularly long to level, I got no sense of that on the character I ran.  If I recall correctly, my first and only toon was in the teens in an afternoon.  Unless advancement curves heavily as you level, it's about on par with most "mid-school" games. 

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

One of the things i hated in the last couple of MMO´s i played is that there where allways people pushing groups to move faster. And i am not talking about a small minorrity, but a lot of people took over this mentallity, pushing people to move and fight as fast as possible in their shining gear and move as quickly from dungeon to dungeon.

 I did really hate that attitude.

 I just hope that in GW2 people will lay this attitude to rest and try to enjoy the content again, because the game is much less repetitive contentwise then other MMO´s

That would be pretty friggin' nice, wouldn't it?  It's one of the reasons I often prefer soloing.

Originally posted by jdnyc

Originally posted by Robsolf

I know of at least 3 just in "City of the Gods" that were still broken as of the 1.1 update.

I'll ignore the rest of the post, since it pertains to people spreading false information and thus, not to me.

 

Interesting.  Which one?  I completed all the missions of City.  Didn't realize there were issues.

The one from Nefertari the younger where you go to the library, like the 2nd or 3rd room.  Can't click the beams to adjust them.  This one of particularly obnoxious because you collect several items that can't be removed until you finish the mission.

The one from the Djinn in the East, after defeating the first boss, follow the symbols to where you have to click through the pentagram.  The whole thing stays aflame and never resets so you can click through the puzzle.

The one where you have to click the flare to summon the helicopter.  Though that might be just outside the CotG on the other Egypt map.

Those are the ones I recall off the top of my head.  I also have a number of quest items from prior and later missions that I couldn't finish, that I also can't delete from inventory.  Given that you can't just visit the quest area from time to time to see if it's fixed, and instead have to go back to the QG, then go there makes it all the more irritating.

I also have some quest items from things I HAVE finished but also can't delete.  When I redo that mission I'm forced to pick the item up again.  Fortunately, I haven't been left with more than one copy of each...

Edit:  The latest one I experienced was the one where you build the goloem and follow it around the blue mountain marsh.  I followed him around for like 15-20 minutes when he abruptly disappeared, and the quest didn't update.  If you're familiar with that marsh, you know how much of a PITA it can be. 

Originally posted by eyelolled
I'm hearing more and more about how people can't play their characters the way they want, but end up having to take particular and specific builds to suit the role they want to play.  If everyone has to follow a specific build, than what is really the difference that makes the TSW system better?

I'd say that it's not so much that people can't play the COMBAT role they want to play.  On that front, it's about as good as you can get, so long as you're looking at the math for synergy; complementary active/passive abilities.

But if you want to create a CHARACTER who dabbles in blood magic and straps a shotgun to their back, your combat effectiveness will suffer for it.  Envision playing "Ash, Housewares"?  Be prepared to have a hard time of it.  You might get lucky and put together a compromise of passives that make it work, but they're strewn all over the place.

Edit:  So long as your focus is combat effectiveness and it takes priority over the weapons you want to play, you'll be more effective. 

Originally posted by BigRock411

There are really only a few missions that are actually bugged.  People assume that most are bugged when they cant figure it out...we saw that at launch when every mission was apparently bugged for some but not others.

Nope.  For one, I'm not saying MOST were bugged.  I might do 10-15 missions in a night.  So I was saying that about 1 in 10-15 were bugged.   Not most by any stretch, but definitely excessive, particularly for the kind of game it is.  And if it's obvious that you're SUPPOSED to click on something and you can't, then it's obviously bugged.  If I think I know the solution and can't do it, I don't assume it's bugged, I look it up in a guide.  If the guide verifies my solution then yes, I know it's bugged.

Then theres the missions where if someone fails to do it right everyone else will have to wait for it to reset..annoying but not bugged.

Or if you KNOW the right solution, and either through other players manipulating the puzzle or from it being bugged, you DIE several times, anyway, despite doing everything right.

Then there are the missions what are kind of bugged, where you need to switch to another dimension to do it, i think the fixed most of these already.

I know of at least 3 just in "City of the Gods" that were still broken as of the 1.1 update.

I'll ignore the rest of the post, since it pertains to people spreading false information and thus, not to me.

Originally posted by arieste

Originally posted by Baddogbill
Now that the first monthly update is in operation  I'm wondering if the new content gives a months worth of playing or what sort of timespan it will take to cover the new content ....is the new content worth 15$ this month?

I think that if you take it on its own, an update is probably not worth  $15.  But considering that you need to pay $15 continue playing the game anyway, the update definitely makes the sub an even better deal.

 In other words - if you didn't think TSW was worth subscribing to in the first place, i doubt the update will change your mind.

I pretty much agree with this, here.

Anybody that might expect 1/4 of the game in content every month will easily be disappointed(not that anyone here is  arguing that).  But if their last update will be par for what to expect in new content, then they'll be easily doing more than what most other MMO's are doing, now.  And it's a welcome surprise that contrasts greatly with Funcom's less than stellar content delivery for AoC.

Edit:  One thing to note... at least one of the missions was in CB.  Much of it may have been not ready for launch, and technically not new content.

IMO Funcom seems, at least so far, to have redeemed their rep in 2 areas they were notorious for:  horrible launches, and content delivery.

For me, though?  Given the game's strong and weak points, the wise thing for me is to wait six months, sub for a month, and do all the new content at once.  It's cheaper, and I absorb the story better, that way.

Originally posted by Humanite
same as swtor threads. straight copypasta of all responses.

Mmmmm.... pasta...

In terms of broken missions, yep this game is pretty bugged.  Lots of quests where things you have to click are rendered unclickable; particularly in cases where things have to be clicked in a certain order.  Usually had at least one unfinishable quest a night due to these sorts of things.

Graphics seemed fine on my HD-5770.  Nothing serious to report.

Audio would sometimes break into what sounds like a combat triggered, and somewhat loud song for about a half second, then abruptly quit.  Other than that, audio seemed ok to me.  I'm just using your standard mobo sound card.

So while I agree with the OP that the game is bugged, often in the worst ways for a game like this to be bugged, I've not seen what they were describing.

Originally posted by Kyleran
Finally, a WOW clone worthy of the moniker.....

I know, right??? 

Excellent OP... 

Now I'm off to play Eve, or should I call it, "Eve of Warcraft"...?  

Not too fond of the gfx in the game overall... not sure that it's a lack of DX-11 or just some overly colorful art choices.

What IS nice is that it played super smooth, even with a beta debug layer running.

Looking forward to live...

Mostly agreed.  For me, the TES lore isn't that special to me; it was the open nature of the gameplay.

While there's alot that that you can't really do in an MMO environment, there's some of it they could do through phasing and other fairly new technologies.

If Turbine can create a rebuildable city, and Anet can create chained scenarios, there are things you can effect, even if temporarily.

Originally posted by Wighty

Originally posted by tank017
That's theme parks for ya.they all last about a month out of the gate until they start running out of content.Then you must wait for content updates and xpacks.

Man I hear you, I am familiar with MMO's since their inception. The last few out the gate have been ridiculous, TOR, now TSW.... I mean they frontload you with all this tasty goodness with good storylines and great progession through the zones, only to have this ridiculously redundant gameplay.

 Is this the MMO business model nowadays... Perhaps it's time for a new hobby... Hopefully GW2 will not be the same ol.

Indeedy...

Now you know why they're having the big promo weekend with FC point rewards if you finish 30 missions this weekend.  They want their launch subscribers to stay on for another month.  Both devious and clever...

Originally posted by rdrakken

Originally posted by Robsolf

In terms of overall PVE/mission difficulty, TSW by a mile.  In those categories, TOR is a distant second, and only due to specific boss mob circumstances, which may have been "fixed" by now.

 

 Cant tell if serious...

I was answering the OP's question.  They presented 4 games and asked which were the most "hardcore".  I answered based on PVE/mission content.  I wasn't aware that they were requesting a "what's hardcore?" pissing contest.

In terms of overall PVE/mission difficulty, TSW by a mile.  In those categories, TOR is a distant second, and only due to specific boss mob circumstances, which may have been "fixed" by now.