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All Posts by Robsolf

All Posts by Robsolf

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Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Robsolf

I don't disagree a bit, Axe.  And I may be going off topic here, but here's my conundrum...

Each game developer builds its own tools to then build whatever game it's going to build(put SIMPLY).  As a person who is NOT a software developer but is involved directly in software development(and those developers) that IS NOT gaming related, I still know enough to accept that much.

How on earth do we end up paying a fifth of the price of a game, after it was completed, for maybe 1/25th of the original content as DLC?  Fallout, New Vegas, A game I love, as an example.  The game is made, the tools built, yet, 4 hours of a 100+ hour $60 game costs you 10 bucks.  After the foundation has been built.

I'm not trying to discredit you here, and I don't think it does, really.  But don't you think that's kinda BS? 

It's certainly a reasonable complaint.  Basically players are going to try to be as efficient with their dollars as possible, and developers as efficient at getting those dollars, and it requires a certain awareness on both sides for the trade to work best.  For developers that means providing enough content that players feel it was worth the price.  For players it means not immediately purchasing every little thing a developer offers until you're sure it'll be worth it (ie research the DLC a little beforehand to discover it only lasts 4 hours and avoid purchasing it.)  

If that happens (many players avoid DLC because it's known to be poor bang-for-the-buck) then it forces developers to change either the product or the price to avoid that in the future.  Developers will push the line, and players should call them on it if they go too far, by not buying the product.

It's a little dangerous to measure things in hours, as 5 hours completing Portal was a vastly different experience than 5 hours grinding the same mobs to level one time in Lineage 2.  Both were 5 hours, but one provided true quality and the other was trash.  So "4 hours" doesn't automatically tell me whether the DLC was worth it or not, but either way it's clear you didn't feel you got your money's worth.

4-5 hours is about the average for DLC, in my experience. So while bethesda might be my example of poor bang for the buck DLC, it's a widespread practice, which is the bit that bothers me.  In F:NV I recall the content, quality-wise, being on par with the rest of the game, Old World Blues stacking up with the best of the original content, IMO.

In that particular game, they put out 4 DLC's at 10 bucks a pop.  So basically $40 for what was, even collectively, a sliver's worth of content compared to the $60 game it was for.  And they didn't even have to manufacture boxes and discs for it.

If only I could wait out Fallout 4 until they put out a GotY edition.  That's what I do for most other games.  But alas I'm a post apoc Nuka Cola geek and they've got me dead to rights. 

 

Originally posted by BlueProteus

Thanks!

There wasn't a marker to get to it, and I'd forgotten there was a specific elevator.

Good to go now.

Yeah, I remember getting lost there a few times.  The irony is, if you're used to the game, you're more likely to get lost because you're expecting to just have to get to your ship.  "Oh yeah... I don't have a ship, yet!  now what...?" 

I bet people get lost there quite a bit.  They could probably remedy it by putting a consumable ticket to Coruscant on your mission bar, so you could pick your AC and crafting, train, gear up, and leave from wherever you are.

Originally posted by BlueProteus

It's been ages since I last played, and it was pretty casual when I did. Thought I'd start it up again to check it out, and I'm completely stuck as to how/where to go.

I'm on the Telos Fleet shuttle hangar, and I need to get back to Coruscant to finish a mission. My mission is supposedly "tracked" but it's giving me no information on where I need to go to find a shuttle to Coruscant. I ran around in circles for a while on Carrick station, still no luck.

Shouldn't there be some kind of marker for where I need to go?

Any help appreciated!

 

 

If you can get to Carrick station, there should be, due N, S, E, or West, an elevator that indicates Coruscant Departures.  Go down that elevator and, I think, cut a left, and you'll get to a shuttle to Coruscant.

Originally posted by waynejr2

You are going to have to give explicit examples of these games and the "numbers" to support it.  Plus, apples and oranges are different.  Different companies have different costs.

I gave my "explicit" example.  Fallout:  New Vegas. 

$60 Game could go for 60-100+ hours of content.

$10 DLC?  about 4 hours.  That's not unusual for DLC, and certainly was the mark for this game.

Again, my point isn't to prove Axe wrong... I think he's right.  My point is that prices of games and their content have little to do with development cost.

 

 

 

Originally posted by BlackWatch

As others have said, it's an awfully funny time for Bioware to be spitting out metrics/numbers after letting 12x XP run for a while.

Are players going to be focussed on end-game content PvE/PvP?  No.  

Are players going to be leveling up characters?  Yes.

So, if I capture metrics on the game right now, the numbers will be a bit misleading.  Furthermore, if I'm an executive and looking at current numbers, I'm going to assume that nobody gives a damn about PvP content.  There is 'little' interest in end-game PvE.  I'm probably going to think that the only thing people care about is... leveling and character story.

Sadly, I genuinely feel that the team @ Bioware is running into the same issues that the team at SOE did when they ran a game based off of the Star Wars IP... they don't know how to process player feedback correctly.  They lack the appropriate channels for creative and constructive feedback.  What do executives take from misleading numbers and anemic feedback?  Negativity.  Players hate our game.  Change it.  Do something.  Anything.  

And so then, what are the developers to do with their new marching orders?  Not much.  What's the one thing they can pump out without qualitative data?  Story.  

I would say at least 50-60% of the players that I played with have left the game.  These are players that I used to play SWG, WoW, and other games with.  

Why did they leave?

Poor game performance.  Where is our 64-bit client?  No matter what hardware or bandwidth that I throw at the game, it's still a slug.

Lack of cross-realm support.  As server numbers drop or as queues for PvP, raid teams, etc., take longer, cross-realms would've helped.

Space combat has always been a sore subject for the game... both PvP and PvE are in need of help. 

IMHO... Bioware focussing on story without fixing other systems is a slap in the face to players who have been waiting for various aspects of the game to be fixed.  

I love Star Wars.  I play Star Wars the Old Republic because it's Star Wars.  If the game was just a SciFi MMO, then I wouldn't give it a 2nd look. 

 

Methinx your causality meter is busted.  12X exists because their data mining indicated such a thing would be popular.  And it clearly was, or else they'd not have brought it back.

Though without a doubt, the popularity of 12X itself IS probably telling them something.  I think that's true.

I can only use myself for an example, but I can't help but think that their move back to story was spurred by how people like me play the game.  Before 12X, I'd subscribe 1-2 months every year or so, then cancel.  12X hasn't changed much about that, BUT during those couple months, despite having toons for every class that are at least level 50, I'm creating new characters and running the stories over again in 12X.  I'm skipping out on the endgame content and gear grind to go back to the stories that I've already experienced.

When I look at the direction they seem to be going with KotFE, it looks alot like the answer to the question:  "How do we get players like RobSoLF back, and keep them subscribed?"

We'll see if it's the right answer, or even the right question.

i don't see any of those things happening.

Let's keep some perspective, here.  This is a FREE expansion to subscribers.  I wouldn't count on anything so big as an engine change or action combat coming, as much as I'd welcome either of them.

The most significant thing seems to be the streamlining of 1-50.  This probably means further speeding up of travel; just showing departure/arrival like the Hutt Xpac, for example.  Quest delivery/completion might be simplified, via port to instance or by holo.  The former being more likely, I think.  Terminal Missions might pop up in the field like Area missions. 

That sort of thing.

Also, it would be nice if they'd actually make the autoloot system actually be autoloot.  I kill the bad guy, and loot goes into my inventory.  THAT is autoloot.

For the love of GOD will they finally make the companions heal AT LEAST as fast as your character does out of combat???  This is probably why so many people just go with a healer companion.

Any or all of these things, I think, are fairly reasonable things that could be done for a free update.  Especially given that they're talking about speeding up the output of content in the future, which will probably require the development of new tools to streamline the content creation process.

Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Gestankfaust

^Is the truth...but some people will not ever get it. And Devs will not learn

Claiming this is a result of devs failing to learn is an uneducated assumption:

  1. Devs are improving their ability to generate content all the time. If developers had stopped making new games entirely and only developed levels for 1996's Quake 1, then the speed at which we developed Q1 levels, weapons, and other content would be more than 20x faster due to the awesome development tools we'd have developed around that product. But we don't just work on Q1.  We make other games.
  2. Often too many things are thrown away between games.  When the construction team arrives to demolish the old 1970s home to build your new home, you probably don't want them to keep the cruddy walls of the old house, but you probably do want them to re-use the cranes and tools and stuff they've been using for the last decade or two (otherwise the cost of your house will include the cost of a brand new crane.) Games often make a similar mistake where tools and libraries and thrown away a bit too eagerly.
  3. Game software doesn't have fixed, reliable requirements. In fact the more flexible a team is at rapidly iterating during development, the more likely they'll end up with a fun game.  This implies things weren't designed with absolute flawless precision right from the start, which is why this comic ends up being accurate...

There are other factors too, but the point is that developers are constantly learning to create content faster for players, but that there are certain unavoidable factors causing things to release slower (and the biggest one is that we're not all still working on Quake 1.)

But at the end of the day none of that matters.  The thing that matters is it takes 2 months (or however long) to create a dungeon (or whatever) and you either make that dungeon last 2 months, or players finish it in a day and are bored for the rest of the 2 months before you put out your next content.  Thus: content gets designed to be repeated.

I don't disagree a bit, Axe.  And I may be going off topic here, but here's my conundrum...

Each game developer builds its own tools to then build whatever game it's going to build(put SIMPLY).  As a person who is NOT a software developer but is involved directly in software development(and those developers) that IS NOT gaming related, I still know enough to accept that much.

How on earth do we end up paying a fifth of the price of a game, after it was completed, for maybe 1/25th of the original content as DLC?  Fallout, New Vegas, A game I love, as an example.  The game is made, the tools built, yet, 4 hours of a 100+ hour $60 game costs you 10 bucks.  After the foundation has been built.

I'm not trying to discredit you here, and I don't think it does, really.  But don't you think that's kinda BS?

 

Originally posted by Boneserino

What is so wrong about playing it as a single player game and never touching it again?   Is there a law against that?

That up there.

Like many games before it, SWTOR's endgame has never interested me.  I've never been a raider or a dungeon grinder... only occasionally do I bother with dailies, and with SWTOR that hasn't changed.

This ultimately results in me finishing the SP content, running the group content a couple times, rolling alts, and cancelling my sub.  I haven't stayed more than 2 months at a time since launch.

And that's ok with me.

Now in October, they're promising monthly content*, so that might change my MMO migrating patterns, we'll see.  But if it don't, that's fine by me. 

*honestly, I hate when a game promises monthly content.  Because it never friggin' happens and is pretty much always unfeasible.  STO and NW have events every few weeks; that's about as close as I have seen.

 

Originally posted by TurtleDGr8

 If I could play through the character's story line and not really have to worry too much about all the filler quests, the game might be worth playing again.  I really liked the main storyline of each character, but the way the game was setup, doing the world quests was just "meh".  I was surprised because I usually get side tracked and spend a lot of time on stuff like that, but not in SWTOR.

 Which probably says as much about the game as is necessary.  It might be fun if I could skip most of it.

 

You can do that now as a subscriber with 12X Storyline XP.  With that, and the free 25% XP bonuses they give you when you complete a planet, you can almost get to level 60 without doing a single side quest.  I finished out Corellia with a new BH at level 52 last night.

Or are you referring to the new content, itself?  Because SoR was already pretty streamlined; I imagine the new content will be similar.  You basically had the main story, a couple class quests, and some dailies that you could probably ignore if you have some 25% XP boosters.

Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade
Originally posted by Robsolf
Originally posted by Gorwe
This expansion scares me. I have a VERY BAD feeling about it for whatever reason. Maybe I'm just scared of unknown? /shrug

I'm currently not a big fan of where the endgame is at the moment, so I'm optimistic.  I'm especially liking what they're saying about companions.  Sounds like I'm finally going to have a bit of a say over who the hell is on my ship.  Out the airlock you go, Skadge...

 

They mentioned that some companions will betray us, it wouldn't surprise me if Skadge was one of them. (Which would give us the excuse to shoot him the face. )

It'll be interesting to see how they do it.  My first thought is that they'll set it by your affection ratings; but what if you're one of those crazy players that got all your companions up to 10k?     Maybe you'll get the option to convince them to come back, I suppose?

Unless you just want one for the cosmetic look, don't buy a mount from the store.

I recently returned, and I bought one and unlocked for my Legacy because they're adaptive(they go the speed you're trained for).  I found out too late that all mounts are now like this, even the cheap 5k vendor mounts.  Ah well... that's what I get for not paying attention.

Originally posted by Gorwe
This expansion scares me. I have a VERY BAD feeling about it for whatever reason. Maybe I'm just scared of unknown? /shrug

I'm currently not a big fan of where the endgame is at the moment, so I'm optimistic.  I'm especially liking what they're saying about companions.  Sounds like I'm finally going to have a bit of a say over who the hell is on my ship.  Out the airlock you go, Skadge...

 

Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by time007
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Dzone

Why do dev's design games where you end up running the same instance dungeon 100's of times for gear. 

Because player behavior in games has consistently shown they like doing it. 

people doing it doesn't mean they like it.  

It's a voluntary leisure activity that the person is paying to experience, it does. 

Yep!  They may or may not like it, but there are few things that are more indicative of somebody liking something than their doing it and paying to do it voluntarily.

Not to say that a game won't come along with something better using the same development resources.  But over a decade later and we're still waiting.

Some MMO's try to switch things up.  LotRO's skirmishes switch out mobs and things to add a little variety.  Their end games often randomize dailies to mix things up.  But TBH, it doesn't add anything to my personal amusement.  Neverwinter has the foundry which gives a daily reward; certainly a boon to have so much good player content but it's still not decimating the old school "gear dailies" games.

More MMO players, fewer MMORPG players.
Originally posted by DocBrody
Originally posted by Deskjet

If nothing else they already make heavy use of planet instances.

So they could probalby touch up a planet and load people that have progressed through to the expansion into the changed version by default, while they load lowbie into the old version.

exactly this!!

Imagine, they could even crank up all former non-faction low level mobs like sandpeople up to level 60 on Tatooine making it fun again to do something there at max lvl.

I suspect some form of this will occur.  Though I can't imagine they'll do this to every single planet, as that's a pretty tall order.  Cat was a full "give us 40 bucks" expansion, where this will be free to all subscribers.

With planets like Belsavis built in a state of constant fighting, they'd have to do massive changes to art and mob placement to show the whole thing 10(or whenever) years later.

In contrast, Tat will be easy; not much change there; they could probably flip the mobs to 60, do some minor things in the cities and they're set.

I would like to see the planets repurposed for max level, though.  One of the biggest weaknesses of the game is the lack of need to return to most of the planets, save for the occasional companion/special mission.  This isn't a unique problem to SWTOR, but it would be a good one to get rid of.

Originally posted by daltanious
Originally posted by rojoArcueid
that trailer raised my interest in SWTOR again, If the content is as good as what they showed in that trailer i might give EA another chance with their online experience. Carefully waiting for the expansion release to determine if they are worthy.

No problem here at all. Loved original Swtor, expansions were for sure not up to original but they were still very good. Now as it looks they are returning to roots. And can barely wait. Currently Swtor is my game No.1, 2nd for now Wow, close 3rd Gw2.

That's kinda where I'm at, as well.  If there's any part of the story narrative that I don't like in SWTOR, or in BW tales in general, it's the buttloads of "ass-kissery" and "King of the Worldiness" that our maxed out characters experience.  The last 2 Xpacs have kept us there with no real growth potential on a personal level.

From the sounds of things, it's looking like our characters are gonna get knocked off their high horse with this coming Xpac.  To me, that's mighty appealing.

Using Yoda as an example, I think a story of something he did after his exile would be far more interesting than one with him as a high and mighty member of the Jedi Council.  And it kinda seems like that's where this Xpac will put us.

Originally posted by greenbow54
Originally posted by Quizzical
While it would likely work fine, why would you want to power a $3000 rig with a budget power supply?

How is 600W budget? 1000W is super overkill, unless you're also powering your monitor, a TV, and your car on the same power supply.

 

Edit - @OP, I'd personally look into a system with a GTX 980 ti as well, unless you like throwing money away, in which case I can give you my paypal info. It's about $350 cheaper for nearly the same specs.

that it's 600W isn't that big a deal.  That it's a bottom line $45-$60 Corsair with average reviews is another.

Originally posted by Quizzical
While it would likely work fine, why would you want to power a $3000 rig with a budget power supply?

I don't see the problem at all. 

Now if you don't mind, I'm off to go find me some used retreads for my Ferrari.

Originally posted by Nibs
You see, I hate 12x XP for class missions as you miss out on all the gear that 'normal' levelling gives you. Unless they tweak the class quests to give you a full set of level appropriate gear every few levels you end up grossly under geared. Unless you have a bunch of crafters to craft it all yourself. Which I don't.

What Grimal sez.  That was true the first time they did it, but this time they give you 12x commendations, too.  I use the adaptive armor they give you for Galactic Starfighter and update the components every 5 levels or so.  You get more than enough comms to do it for you and 1-2 companions.

It's so nice to just be able to focus on the class story; it's much easier to follow without having a half dozen other quests in the way.

Hmmm.  Looks like they're doubling down on the game.  I picked it up at launch and it was fun for a while.  The gfx already seemed pretty good to me.

Having the main story online was a bit of a mess.  If you accidentally opened the race up, you were pretty much guaranteed to fail some missions even if you were in first place due to time trials; other players trying to PIT you out or driving erratically in front of you.

The pursuit missions had major issues, too.  Some were near impossible to do and others were done in less than 30 seconds.  Success was mostly based on luck.

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