All Posts by damian7

Originally posted by Lydon

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

 The same reason you pick your costume?  Customization and RP?

For the players maybe, but I personally feel the devs would much rather add new features to the game instead of expand on current features.

like redoing zones?

a caveat to the clone comment -- ALWAYS keep an updated clone.  if you get podded, the FIRST thing you do is get a new clone.

you realize that a trader/researcher could train for a long, long time and never be in a ship larger than a frigate.  this person could rarely ever even leave a station.  yet the player could be having tons of fun, lots of friends, and therefore... be successful BECAUSE they're having fun.

like that one dude in another thread where zooming in first into the mission yelling something on TS like, "imma fire moi LASORZ" (or whatever) is all that guy needs to have fun.

fun is a totally different animal than power/meta gaming, being uberly rich, and getting max SP in minimal time (or 'catching up with vets').

fun IS what it's all about.

but i'm just curious how many new eve folks cranked it up and tried (or did) hit those benchmarks in the op, early on.

Originally posted by slask777

You may not be required to put in hour after hour playing the game, you just need to log on to set a new skill to train, but then you're paying for gametime you're not using. I'm all for getting entertained for my money, but the model Eve got, doesn't give me that. Sure, I can fool around doing a mission here and there for a few weeks, but that will get old fast. And sadly, while this game look great, it is for a small niche of players.

What's with the system they got for alts? I mean, if you ain't supposed to train your alt, then why the freaking hell do they got space for alts on one account? You need to focus on one toon to have any progress in this game. What about diversity? What about fun exploring different areas of the game? Impossible cause the moment you create another alt, your main stop his training. I get the logic behind it, but it stinks of bad game design. If this shit want to work for me, then the skills I set to train will train atleast 100x the speed while I'm logged on playing my toon, else its just a moneysink.

I can't for the life of me understand why they say pvp is so hardcore in this game...Haha, all you do is circle eachother, pressing a shortcut and watch the fireworks, so to speak...and nope, I havent got the patience to play this game x amounts of years to get into a proper corp, fly a proper ship, have a good bank with lots of isk in it, some diversity to my toon(specialize..bleh. If I want specialization I go play a racing game or something).

There is so much wrong with this game, from my perspective, its staggering. Given it a try a few times but can't find anything fun with it at all. And if I need to spend half a year/a year training before the fun start, no thanks. There are lots of games out there that will give me better 'mileage' than this training simulator.

Eve is, and will always be a niche game, for a small amount of players that actually like this kinda thing. Luckilly for the rest of us, there is a few new space games in development which hopefully will learn from the mistakes done in the past with this genre.

There...you read the words of a well...fan of this game. Now you read the words of a skeptic. So all you have to do now, is make up your own damn mind and don't listen to either of us..hah. Sure, go give the trial a run and see for yourself. Sadly though, the trial could've been 6 months and you still wouldn't have seen all the stuff in Eve. Not cause its so damn big, but cause your skills take a freaking eternity to train, and with no skills, good luck trying to survive anywhere. Better just stay docked all the time

well, from the perspective of a fan of the game, you're not wrong.

eve DOES require quite a bit of research to get to the 20 million skill points at a year's time.  even so, depending on what *specialization* route you've chosen (trade, industry, research, pvp, missioning, etc), the skills you've trained may still have you only half-arsed in any decent ship.  getting those 20m skill points for pvp DOES mean you're forsaking trade, industry, research, leadership, corporation management and possibly several other skill trees as well.  that's why it's called specializing... you can do this ONE thing.

and bother all with some wanked out thinking about YOU can just start playing and once you hit the 2m sp mark you're making 20 million isk (and more) an hour. 

all those grandiose money making things which are (or were) in the op.. those aren't for rookie players in their first year.  as the op said, "it's an unwritten rule that your first cap ship will be self purchased"; so that's over a billion isk for the skills and another billion+ for the ship, and then you'll probably want to put some mods on it so you can actually do something WITH it (crazy, i know).

but hey, i can claim i've played for 5 years, on mmorpg.com, where my screen name isn't plastered by my posts.

any mmo out there is pretty much filled with timesinks.  the way mmos keep people (according to their research), is to make games where people group a lot.  ideally the grouping is with the same people, so that bonds/friendships form.  that way, even when the game is no longer fun, people will stay to play with their 'buddies'.

so, it's REALLY a matter of just finding an MMO that appeals to you.  because, make NO mistake, every last mmo is a batch of timesinks strung together.  it's up to you to decide which ones you find fun.  lacking that... play different mmos... play one until it's not fun, the move to another.  there is NO rule that says you have to delete toons or account and that you CAN'T go back and play a game you've sworn never to play again.

but, please, do keep in mind something that is very integral to all these games --- amount of time a character/account has existed does NOT equal player skill/knowledge/ability.  someone can be a rookie player in any game and within the first month have a better grasp on the game than someone that's played years (yes, even 5 or 11 years).

and once you've become a "veteran" in a game; don't forget the rookies.  you WERE once a rookie. you may not have been a noob, but you were once a rookie in the game you're playing.  as long as the new player isn't an eternal noob -- cut them some slack and give them the benefit of the doubt.

that's the real secrets to all mmos...

If you've played for a year or less, and you've accomplished (or near accomplished) any of the below, could you please speak up and let us know about your accomplishments? i.e. how hard was it to accomplish, what sort of help did you get (like you joined eve uni and learned a lot fast), and a general idea of how you did/do it (like, i trade on the market/contracts)

   thanks in advance~!!

1 - flying some type of huge ship (say, something larger than a battleship)

2 - making 20m+/hour (how much, and how -- missions, ratting, trade -- just a general idea please, no specifics requested).

3 - 15m+ SP, what was your secret in getting a lot of SP early on? how did you combat the desire to watch your skills as the timer slowly ticked on them?

a lot of new players post here asking advice.  i'm just curious how many new'ish players are accomplishing crazy mad goals that first year.  I know of one guy that went nuts with the market and was making billions early on.  he could very well be the exception to the rule.

say you're not that far along, only been playing 4-6 months... do you see yourself reaching any of the above 3 within your first year of play?

Originally posted by gamerman98

[quote]Originally posted by damian7
[b][quote]Originally posted by Jeratan
[quote][color=#ffffff]Originally posted by damian7

[color=#ffffff]
[color=#ffffff]so what exactly is the point of this thread?
[color=#ffffff] 
[color=#ffffff]to make over generalized statements of "hey you can catch up", and say stuff like "hey i've seen people with 2m sp doing this and that".   then provide a build.  show how the character should be trained and show how the ship should be equipped.  otherwise, hey, i've seen pigs with wings flyng around. after all, from reading the OP... it SOUNDS like this is a post about helping rookie pilots in eve.  but after reading the OP and this thread, i'm really not sure what this thread is about...
[color=#ffffff]you give a crapton of examples of how to make lots of money.  that's WONDERFUL.  your title is:  Why "Newbies will never catch up to Veterans" is a myth.  Read if you're having doubts.
[color=#ffffff]what in the WORLD does vets making money have to do with rookies making money?  maybe you should just change your subject line to be "hey, here's my thoughts on why rookies can catch up and ways i thought about that vets can make lots of money".
[color=#ffffff]you dispute things i've said, by agreeing with what i'm saying?  what?  YOU are the one talking about getting a carrier and an alliance helping you out with it and the skill books, etc.  but, i'm the one pointing out that you probably CAN'T do that, as a new player, BECAUSE you're a new player.  oh, but i didn't understand your engrishes, you need to clarify what you meant.  maybe you could just say "hey, if you buy a cap ship, then folks in your alliance might cut you a deal and stuff".  that's not what you said initially.  but this is about helping out rookie pilots and folks who don't have a lot of isk, i guess.  i don't really know what you're doing other than back-peddling. 
[color=#ffffff]whatever man.  at this point i have no idea what you're even pretending to talk about.  5 years in eve, eh?
 
[/quote]
 
 
 
"so what exactly is the point of this thread?"
What is the point of the thread? It's pretty damn clear in the subject and the OP.I dont know if I should even bother responding to this sort of stuff.

The purpose of the OP is to dispel the myth that new players will never catch up old players.

If you cannot comprehend that, then the future is grim for you.

It's a shame you've degraded it to this level.  I have to laugh at this.. I'm backpedalling? YOU'RE the one that's backpedalling and agrees with everything I'm saying.

"so you're right, my week-to-month ratio was off there."
" i assumed the money making options were directed at rookie pilots?"
"yup, my math was off, "
"seem to agree with."
"not everything i posted was in opposition to your post, i agreed with some points."
" i just wanted that point to be plain."
 

In addition, you also say multiple times "which you agree with" when I clearly disagree with you.what in the WORLD does vets making money have to do with rookies making money"
We are talking about rookies catching up to vets.  Can you manage this without making money?

The rest of it you're just stating the obvious or irrelevant, stating downright innacuracies and making 100% false statements.  90% of my text in green is pointing out exactly why you are incorrect, not agreeing with you.

The only valid point you brought up that I didnt shoot holes through was the way I presented carriers.  It was intended to counter people saying "but I'll never get into a capital ship because it takes too much SP".  You're harping on about it because you're grasping for straws. Let go.

"

say stuff like "hey i've seen people with 2m sp doing this and that".   then provide a build. 
[/color]I've provided a link to Eve-mon which is a tool to generate builds. A rookie is not going to catch up to vets because someone holds his hand and tells him exactly what to train and when to train it.[/color][/color]

[/color]Again, just to be 110% clear for you.

The purpose of the OP is to dispel the myth that new players will never catch up old players.

"i have no idea what you're even pretending to talk about.  5 years in eve, eh?"[/color]
Heh, after reading some of your other posts I'm not even going to bother with that one.[/color][/color][/color]
 [/color]
[/quote]

 
you seem even sadder than that other guy.  i'm glad that in dispelling the myth that new players won't catch up to old players, that you put in a LOT of ways that vets can make lots of isk real fast.
seriously, go get some lemonade and let the nerd rage leave.  if you've played for 5 years, then by god, you are defining the term "eternal noob", in regards to eve.  oh wait, but if you're bored with how you've skilled up that toon of yours, you could go sell it for 17 billion isk.  i mean, you've got like a bazillion alts that you've skilled up, right?  and you did point out in your op where you are dispelling the myth that new players will never catch up to old players, that if they tire of how they went (with training of skills) for a toon, that they could always sell it.  right?
 
keywords:  eternal noob, nerd rage, lemonade[/b][/quote]

no whats sad is that you still dont seem to understand what the OP is saying. I have played EVE on a trial and even I understand what he meant by all that. But no instead you try and try to go against it, and in the end try to bash him with name calling and all that just cuz you got owned. the OP knows what hes talking about...you dont...
 

so, you've followed his advice on how to make money and made your billions selling alts, jumping MARKET BOUGHT mins from null sec to empire, and piggy backing on lvl 4 missions in 0.0?

grats to you.

lemonade for all!  en:nr

Originally posted by Jeratan

Damian7

I don't care what you beleive, you have a flawed and bitter understanding of the game and your opinion is worthless to me.  Anyone who beleives that there are not devs all over other alliances is only kidding themselves.  The only 'real' scandal didnt even have any long standing effects before or after the fact for BoB OR T20.

are you still dispelling the myth of new players can't catch up to old players and pointing out that once the new players get in carriers, they too can make billions of iskies?

don't hate the game or that you may/may not fail horribly at understanding a game you've played for 5 months.  One day, if you stick with it, you can have old characters that you've built/skilled for yourself, instead of just reading random guides.  the op was just a bit closer to the "i quit" edge than you.  posting anonymously on mmorpg.com is a great way to make grandiose claims and then totally confuse common terms.  s'ok. i understand...     need a free sabre?

NR:EN  

Originally posted by Jeratan

Originally posted by damian7

so what exactly is the point of this thread?

 

to make over generalized statements of "hey you can catch up", and say stuff like "hey i've seen people with 2m sp doing this and that".   then provide a build.  show how the character should be trained and show how the ship should be equipped.  otherwise, hey, i've seen pigs with wings flyng around. after all, from reading the OP... it SOUNDS like this is a post about helping rookie pilots in eve.  but after reading the OP and this thread, i'm really not sure what this thread is about...

you give a crapton of examples of how to make lots of money.  that's WONDERFUL.  your title is:  Why "Newbies will never catch up to Veterans" is a myth.  Read if you're having doubts.

what in the WORLD does vets making money have to do with rookies making money?  maybe you should just change your subject line to be "hey, here's my thoughts on why rookies can catch up and ways i thought about that vets can make lots of money".

you dispute things i've said, by agreeing with what i'm saying?  what?  YOU are the one talking about getting a carrier and an alliance helping you out with it and the skill books, etc.  but, i'm the one pointing out that you probably CAN'T do that, as a new player, BECAUSE you're a new player.  oh, but i didn't understand your engrishes, you need to clarify what you meant.  maybe you could just say "hey, if you buy a cap ship, then folks in your alliance might cut you a deal and stuff".  that's not what you said initially.  but this is about helping out rookie pilots and folks who don't have a lot of isk, i guess.  i don't really know what you're doing other than back-peddling. 

whatever man.  at this point i have no idea what you're even pretending to talk about.  5 years in eve, eh?

 

 

 

 

"so what exactly is the point of this thread?"
What is the point of the thread? It's pretty damn clear in the subject and the OP.

The purpose of the OP is to dispel the myth that new players will never catch up old players.

If you cannot comprehend that, then the future is grim for you.

It's a shame you've degraded it to this level.  I have to laugh at this.. I'm backpedalling? YOU'RE the one that's backpedalling and agrees with everything I'm saying.

"so you're right, my week-to-month ratio was off there."
" i assumed the money making options were directed at rookie pilots?"
"yup, my math was off, "
"seem to agree with."
"not everything i posted was in opposition to your post, i agreed with some points."
" i just wanted that point to be plain."

In addition, you also say multiple times "which you agree with" when I clearly disagree with you.

The rest of it you're just stating the obvious or irrelevant, stating downright innacuracies and making 100% false statements.  90% of my text in green is pointing out exactly why you are incorrect, not agreeing with you.

The only valid point you brought up that I didnt shoot holes through was the way I presented carriers.  It was intended to counter people saying "but I'll never get into a capital ship because it takes too much SP".  You're harping on about it because you're grasping for straws. Let go.

"what in the WORLD does vets making money have to do with rookies making money"
We are talking about rookies catching up to vets.  Can you manage this without making money?
I dont know if I should even bother responding to this sort of stuff.

say stuff like "hey i've seen people with 2m sp doing this and that".   then provide a build. 
I've provided a link to Eve-mon which is a tool to generate builds. A rookie is not going to catch up to vets because someone holds his hand and tells him exactly what to train and when to train it.

Again, just to be 110% clear for you.

The purpose of the OP is to dispel the myth that new players will never catch up old players.

"i have no idea what you're even pretending to talk about.  5 years in eve, eh?"
Heh, after reading some of your other posts I'm not even going to bother with that one.

 

you seem even sadder than that other guy.  i'm glad that in dispelling the myth that new players won't catch up to old players, that you put in a LOT of ways that vets can make lots of isk real fast.

seriously, go get some lemonade and let the nerd rage leave.  if you've played for 5 years, then by god, you are defining the term "eternal noob", in regards to eve.  oh wait, but if you're bored with how you've skilled up that toon of yours, you could go sell it for 17 billion isk.  i mean, you've got like a bazillion alts that you've skilled up, right?  and you did point out in your op where you are dispelling the myth that new players will never catch up to old players, that if they tire of how they went (with training of skills) for a toon, that they could always sell it.  right?

keywords:  eternal noob, nerd rage, lemonade

just as an aside, it seems at least one person has a good ole time pvp'ing solo.

http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view.php?type=player&name=Raphide&filter=kills&page=2#recent

looks like he disappeared a few months back and is back with a vengeance this past week or so.

Originally posted by MrVicchio

So I'm sitting out in .9 space, got chores to do round the house really, and I set my badger mining some large chunk of rock while I am busy when I see an Osprey that warped in after me go red and start to lock on me.

 

My first thought was "So that's what a PVP lock looks like"  Yeah I really haven't had the time to go out and PVP, I'm following all the advice out there and getting my skills up first, while earning some cash, almost at lvl 5 learning ;) 

 

So anyhoots, just as he gets lock on me, and as I am aligning with the first base I can tag on to, about 10 flashes of light and there is Concorde.   BAM he's toast faster then you can say Toast!   Laughed my but off.  I asked him later "What ever possessed you to target me?"

 

His answer, and I kid you not:

"Badgers aren't for mining you deserve to die"

I had trouble not snort laughing Dr. Pepper all over my monitor.

 

that is totally a comic strip waiting to be drawn.

i kinda want to make a new alt and go mining in a badger now.  i would laugh until i almost peed (well, truth be told, probably laugh until i pee just a little).

Originally posted by Jeratan

There are so many people on here that have no clue what they're talking about yet talk with a clenched fist of arrogance.

Basically a summary of what happened to the OP
He joined the big boys in an alliance.
He didn't bother to check his evemail before going mining and thinks everyone else is in the wrong.
He didn't bother to learn the basics of war-decs and thinks everyone else is in the wrong.
He personally attacked his alliance leader when he was completley in the wrong.

Maybe they did it for loot?
Maybe they have a contract?
Maybe theyre just KB stat padders?


Either way, this is part of eve.
Fact is OP was out of his league, didn't learn even the basics of PvP in a PvP based game.
One of the first things every pilot learns is that concord will retaliate on your behalf unless you're flagged to them or you're at war.  If the OP didnt even get that far and quits the game when he gets ONE ship blown up, eve is not for him.

Originally posted by damian7
"truth be told -- it's nothing but weaksauce from eternal noobs.
you can play a game for 20 years, and still suck to the point that you ARE a noob.
no?
see the repeated failure cascade which is the band of developers."

You don't know what you're talking about.

Fact: 3/4 of 0.0 territory holders could not defeat BoB.  Let's see any other alliance do this.
Fact: There are a lot more devs in Goonswarm and even RA than there are in BoB.  There have been CCP employees in almost every major alliance.
 
I know devs that are in three different alliances, most of them in senior positions (not BoB.. and I know a few people who are in leadership positions within BoB).  Anyone who beleives that the dev's huddle up in BoB or root for BoB are kidding themselves.  CCP Employees have been in almost every single major 0.0 alliance.  The dev scandals are blown out of proportion by bitter noobs who harp on about things they know nothing about.  The rest of the problem (as of recently) is big members of BoB dropping comments to purely to stir up Eve for a laugh *Cough TWD*.  BoB definetly isnt isolated when it comes to having connections with CCP employees. Trust me.  The rest just don't make it public for the purposes of stirring commotion.  I am a perfect example of this.

If you lapped up all the propaganda in CAOD that 'Max' is a miserable failure, you're just another lemming of the masses.

As much as I respect BoB for doing what they do so well,  I disagree with their goals and would enjoy seeing them wiped off the face of eve.
Realistically, this isn't going to happen and it's got nothing to do with dev scandals.  It's because they're the best eve has to offer.
 

/Flame suit on.
Definatly going to need it in this festering hole of bitter CCP hating anti-BoB lemmings...

well, judging from the thread you started, you're either inebriated while typing, or confusing "new player" advice with "veteran" advice.  either way, it's hard to take anything you say, especially for supposedly playing for 5 years, seriously.

how many other folks past/present employed by ccp have been "busted"?   bob currently whines about cynojammers, but hey, they were working as intended when people AGAINST bob had a hard time taking them down.

maybe bob should tell goons some more about how goons will never have ANY space in 0.0. and goons will always be miserable in eve, because bob now controls their game.

THAT ice-burn will never get old.  of course, many years down the road, the long-awaited goon civil war will have run it's course and goons (as an entity) will cease to exist.  but i seriously doubt it'll be a bunch of 5 yearplayingnoobs that do it (read: bob).

all hail our evil russian overlords from the planet murder!   and hey, great tips for rookie pilots on skilling up/selling alt toons and jumping loads of market-bought mins from 0.0 to empire, as ways for rookie pilots to make loads of isk!  you must be bob.

so what exactly is the point of this thread?

to make over generalized statements of "hey you can catch up", and say stuff like "hey i've seen people with 2m sp doing this and that".   then provide a build.  show how the character should be trained and show how the ship should be equipped.  otherwise, hey, i've seen pigs with wings flyng around. after all, from reading the OP... it SOUNDS like this is a post about helping rookie pilots in eve.  but after reading the OP and this thread, i'm really not sure what this thread is about...

you give a crapton of examples of how to make lots of money.  that's WONDERFUL.  your title is:  Why "Newbies will never catch up to Veterans" is a myth.  Read if you're having doubts.

what in the WORLD does vets making money have to do with rookies making money?  maybe you should just change your subject line to be "hey, here's my thoughts on why rookies can catch up and ways i thought about that vets can make lots of money".

you dispute things i've said, by agreeing with what i'm saying?  what?  YOU are the one talking about getting a carrier and an alliance helping you out with it and the skill books, etc.  but, i'm the one pointing out that you probably CAN'T do that, as a new player, BECAUSE you're a new player.  oh, but i didn't understand your engrishes, you need to clarify what you meant.  maybe you could just say "hey, if you buy a cap ship, then folks in your alliance might cut you a deal and stuff".  that's not what you said initially.  but this is about helping out rookie pilots and folks who don't have a lot of isk, i guess.  i don't really know what you're doing other than back-peddling. 

whatever man.  at this point i have no idea what you're even pretending to talk about.  5 years in eve, eh?

Originally posted by Garkan

I think a lot of the "waagghh I can never catch up" is down to peoples illusions of E-peen, its like this in most MMOs:-

Player 1

*wags E-peen.

I has a level 9000 uber dark wizard mage with a cloak of syphilitic pwnage and a sword of cleaved cleavage.

Player 2

*looks down trousers

I has a level 8999 uber bright water paladin with trousers of thrusting and a staff of shining shiny stuff.

But when it comes down to EVE and the feel that without the SP that they are inferior and they don't see that unless SP is backed up by experience and skill its worthless. Even then 1v1 doesn't really generally exist, solo pvp is viable and does happen but in general its group pvp that's the most common from small gang to blob warfare.

Take 2 medium sized gangs and the gang that is lead well and comprised of a good mix of well fitted ships will win even if their opponent has older/higher SP chars.

from reading this post - i have no idea what game you're playing.  something involving kinky sex toy comparisons and no 1v1 pvp, and a game where experienced players beat non-coordinated teams...

edit:  is this that hello kitty online that i keep hearing about?

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by Sunrider

So have they done anything with the end game yet? or is it still hami and alts?

 

Alts // Hami // RWZ // Recluse's Victory.

Funny, the way you worded it makes it sound like you're expecting an end game.  A friendly piece of advice, don't fall for end game hype -- the joy of a game is in the journey.  Before mmo's, once you reach the end, you just moved on to the next game and/or occasionally replayed the old one.  End game is a bs idea perpetuated by developers to be an extended timesink to collect your subscription money.  At least CoX makes replay value worthwhile for those who can enjoy it.  ( ' :

i keep re-reading this, and i keep not getting it.

any single player game i've tried, i've never been like "hey this is cool, i like being wussy"; i've always wanted to be more powerful in the games.  once i hit the level cap, i would look around for other things to do -- nwn comes to mind.  once i maxed level, i looked for other fun things to do, then i wanted to get to a higher level and fight even bigger bads.

perhaps the solution is that there SHOULDN'T be an endgame?  i.e. the max "level" keeps going up, or at least goes up occasionally by X levels.  in a game like COx, where you can replay content from any level - that shouldn't be a problem.  but, other than farming magic drops -- who goes back and replays low level scenarios on their level 50, "for the fun of it"?

not to get a badge, not to get drops, just for the sake of doing it again and having fun with it?  is it that easy to go from a buffed out lvl 50 toon back to level 12 and not be able to even use your travel power?

perhaps COx should take a page from WoW and introduce factions of some type.  i.e. you're a villain, you can choose to get missions from some COT contacts and build up your rep with COT.  this unlocks COT costumes, temp powers, COT-only recipes (perhaps a purple set or two?), COT base items/weapons/defenses (maybe you unlock a cage with an eye-candy version of a behemoth or something?).  perhaps you unlock COT-exclusive strike forces?  after you do XYZ, you unlock something like... Behemoth epic AT, or a COT-based MM?  look thru all the COT missions, everything that you see in only COT missions -- that is something that could be part of the reward system involved in working for/with COT.  perhaps, your character ends up unlocking a power pool or two of COT-only powers/devices? 

you could "grind reputation" with all the different villain organizations.  or... perhaps each toon can only work with one NPC organization?  once you've worked for them, if you abandon/turn traitor against them, the you lose access to everything that organization offered?