Originally posted by DannyGlover

Obligatory Disclaimer: These are my personal views and I do not speak for any audience other than myself. Everything here is an opinion, not a fact.

I cant think of a single mmo that was good enough as is at launch. I always stuck around to see what the developers were going to add, fix, expand upon.

SWTOR is no different. I'm enjoying the stuff they got right and I'm waiting for them to fix the stuff they missed or got wrong. Looking forward to seeing the stuff they add and develop into more complete systems.

Most MMO themeparks expand on pvp scenarios, small group content, new storylines, raids, vanity items, abilities, alternate advancement, and added guild utilities. I expect to see this in TOR as well. In fact its already underway.

What gives this game that little extra though is that they also have a few unique systems they can expand upon that other themeparks don't. Crew skills and missions, companions, and space are three aspects of TOR that can set them apart from the pack. Much like Rifts, they can be a signature of this game.

Now whether or not you want to stick around with your sub and see it first hand, or cancel and wait to see if something draws you back in, thats your business. But I see a lot of kneejerk damnations regarding this game. Reality dictates that all mmos take time to develop and mature. Even your favorite upcoming mmo will have a lot of problems at launch and take at least a few months to iron out (sometimes years).

Im not trying to convince anyone to stay. Hell, theres a good chance I'll bail for a while when TSW comes out. But I have no allusions that TOR is somehow a sinking ship. As a fan of the genre, I expect lots of bumps in the road at the beginning. IMO, if you consider yourself an avid MMO gamer, the phrase "too little too late" should not exist in your vernacular.

You can dismiss every game that comes out for not having exactly what you want, when you want. You can wait forever for the perfect MMO to come by. You can scoff at all the "sheep" that throw money at every new mmo that comes out. You can rally against every evil empire that tries to mug you with their obvious cash grab of an mmo.

But you know what you wont be doing? You wont be playing MMOs. Or maybe you'll fall back on your old stand by and sulk. Neither case is really developing your MMO experience imho.

Anyway, I hope whatever you do in gaming as in life, it is rewarding and time well spent. Happy gaming and good luck out there. :)

I am tired of posts stating eat what your served or else.  Is it just me or do they all sound like they work for the companies/industry?

If they don't, then they must be the same fools that say stick your head in the sand and no one will hack off your legs. 

You can tell folks to sit down and be happy all you want -- we still won't be happy.  Unhappy people go elsewhere.

Every starting area in EQ.  Some are better then others, but every one of them had character.

- I admit particular fondness for the Dark Elves' "log".

- And I always liked collecting bone shards outside of Paineel or outside Kaladim.

Originally posted by ArEf

Imagine WoW's shaman but with a more arcane theme or D&D's bard and you have the right general idea.

Swords and magics, that's all I really need. Preferably a game where using them both doesn't gimp one or the other, but blends them together effectively.

Everquest - ShadowKnight, Bard, Paladin, Druid, Shaman, or even Beastlord (maybe)

EQII - has several similar to above

DDO - Bard (Warchanter especially), Paladin, Monk (Dark damage, Light Heals), Ranger, Battle Cleric (not well liked by community, but can be well played)

SWTOR - Sith Assassin, others too.

DAOC - no longer rememer, but they exist (try Hibernian's Warden for one example)

Whatever.  Server's are up.  (deliberate?  Wow, if so).

Ouch :(

If only they'd sell EQ to someone with vision (no not Bioware, Blizzard, Cryptic, or any of the other current teams).

I do have to agree the loss of Corn Pops worries me.  I still buy a box now and then.  A&W needs to start listening to the times if they want to survive.  I love the place, but they need to cut out the grease (and in a contrary opinion) bring back the 1/4lb (or was it 1/2lb?) Hotdogs!  Those were awesome!

Oh man!  :(  Looks like I have to start my DDO account up AGAIN.  Didn't have that on the schedule this year. 

2200+ posts and you are just either, A) Just realizing this fact or B) just getting around to posting about it? 

(I am guessing A because you've managed time find time for a fair few posts, heh?)

YEAH.  The website makes money off a game's hype, not it's death.  Fanboys pump it regardless of any warning flags, red lights, or fog horns blow them over.  Competitive Fanboys troll it hoping it's death means more fan's for their glossy-eyed dreams that are equally as unsubstantied as those they trash.  The rest of us get lost in the shuffle.

"29 Monk, Looking for Ledge Group."

Yeah. /signed.

Originally posted by Superman0X

I agree that M59 and UO came first, and that they set the groundwork... but the reality is that EQ is the game that launched the industry. Just like Doom was the game that launched the FPS genre (despite other games coming first), EQ launched the MMORPG genre. It is the game that really changed everything, as it put the pieces together for a graphical 3d enviornment and online world.

I remember those days fondly. There was a lot of excitment in both the game, as well as in the gaming industry. Everyone realized that something had changed, and that we were seeing something new and innovative. You dont get that in todays games. They lack the excitement (but have plenty of hype).

 

 

I tried EQ and UO in the same week.  Having been a long time Ultima player on Apple II I loaded UO up first. I still clearlly remember logging into UO.  It had a lot of that familiar feel except for truely horrendous amounts of lag.  I walked around for maybe 2 hours.  I got bored.  I recall the people being rather nasty and rude.  Couple of days later I booted Everquest-- within moments my jaw litterally dropped.  I honestly got choked up and tears in my eyes. 

It was amazing.  So, so much more then anything I had ever seen or even expected to see at that time.  It started the genre. No doubts of that for me.

I lost UO disk.  I never logged in again.  I played EQ for 5-6 years.  Met and married a long time group mate. It was a dream that continues to shine and is the comparison I judge all games by to this day.  Played many, many other MMOS since then and even while still playing EQ.  EQ is the source of magic.  It just needs a modern repolish it will capture the genre again. 

I'm only waiting for that day to log in again.  The tears will be there I am sure!

Nothing to do while on the boat?  Nothing to do while walking across the country?  Well if those words come out of a person's mouth, then I am afraid they simply do not understand what was lost.

Those "unnecesary timesinks" as those who share that affliction can only think to call them are opportunities.  Sinks have more then drains, they were also once a place of gathering, a place where a team / family came together to get something necessary done.  No one enjoyed the task so to speak, but they enjoyed gathering there and socializing while they got that task completed.

Boats?  I met more future guildies, group members, even friends at boats in Everquest then anywhere else.  It a community approved socializing point.  Even the most timid would let loose and open up for conversation after standing there for 10-20 minutes.  Walking across the country for 15 minutes to get to new hunting place allowed people to talk or even just to simply take turns auto-following each other while grabbing snacks, bathroom breaks, changing laundry, etc.

There is a big reason solid communication is gone in today's games, and simple rude offensive, non-imerssive even diversions remain.  No one feels like they are in a community.  There's no where to do the dishes anymore.

15-20 years ago? Hell yeah. Now.  Boring!

Originally posted by Gudrunix

I've become convinced - and from reading the forums, I don't think I'm the only one - that MMOs could use some significant changes to the all-too-predictable formula to improve gameplay.

One idea which I think would help would be changing character progression, specifically leveling up, from a model where the players levels up by completing quests and grinding mobs, to a model where the player levels up by completing specific challenges.  While similar to quests, the challenges would be just that - unusually difficult tasks that would ensure that the player is ready for the next level up.

Specifically, I think it would be interesting to have a short, one-player-only instance at certain points in the progression that the player would have to complete in order to move up.  The instance would be solo only and very difficult to complete, but the player could mitigate the difficulty by completing other content - e.g., other quests or regular five-man instances - that would provide equipment, buffs, etc., that would help him or her clear the challenge.

The primary complaint I could see with this is system is that it would make it difficult for players who - how to put this politely? - do not have as much ability as others, to move up.  That's not a bug, that's a feature.  It would mean that being higher level would actually correlate, to some extent, with real skill, something which is currently not the case.

I have a number of other thoughts on how this type of a system could work (it could be fine-tuned to help slow down the race-to-max-level issue, for one thing, which would help players from getting bored too quickly), but I'll keep this short.  Any thoughts on this?  Or do most players like grinding for levels too much to consider an alternative?

Not sure what makes this idea different then DDO.  Pretty much sums up how it's done with the exception of the added chokepoints which strike me as one more copy of the heroic-oriented themeparks that so many hate today (and yes that some love).

Originally posted by Diovidius

We will officially enter Closed Beta Testing this Friday. It will be marked with an increase in our pool of testers. To clarify, this phase of testing is still under NDA and is not open to the public.

Based on the feedback we get from our current Closed Beta Testing, we will determine the next phases of our beta program in which we will open beta access to more people.

Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/nclu0/im_a_guild_wars_2_developer_ama_about_professions/

Impossible.  I have yet to receive my beta invite.  I'll sign any NDA you would like (and keep it too).

Excellent summary.  Here there be hope.

Strangely enough:  DDO.

Would people stop claiming Skyrim is a sandbox. It most defnitely is not.  It' a just a more flexible then normal Themepark.  At least arguably so.  A solid Sandbox game (post-early SWG) requires more non-combat related goals to be considered Sandbox.  Can you sit somewhere and heal damaged NPCs to earn a living?  Can you 'perform' in order to buff/heal?  I don't think so.  Besides play Skyrim more then once and you'll see just how scripted it all is.  Not very flexible at all really.

Cause it stunk -- a memory worthy of disappearing. if ever there was one.

I've always wanted to play an EQ (1) style Giant.  Really, really big compared to every other playable race.

I think it would be even better to play a Ninja Giant that can sneak.

I recently deplugged (as i have every 2 months or so for the last few year), but I think it may be permanent now.  I will keep an eye on a few games, but I suspect the genre is truely dead.  Problem is for gamers like me (many of us) is there is no substitute.

I miss EQ, I miss it's massive appeal.  I miss many of the same sort of feelings of participation and ownership that the OP noted.  It's been a long road ever since with only occasional success since (DAOC really being the only one that gave it a good go).

I just have no interest in being disappointed anymore.  I won't pay for content.   I expect a game to whoo me, i.e. surprise and delight me.  $ Transactions Never do that.  Never have.  Won't in the future.

I expect a gamer will some day get the funds and where-withall to reintroduce a worthy replacement to those legendary early games, but will any of the players recognize it?  Will they whine it to oblivion?  Will the devs chase after the lowest common denominators?  Will it be created by those that will never understand what makes these games fun to play?  I would only be surprised if even a single answer to these possibilities did not contribute to its eventual / immediate ruin.

I'm convinced the issue is the generation that came after us.  The devs that were promoted and to use a crude, lazy description "turned corporate".  The passion is dead.  The sense of can we really do that -- no longer tried.  The only formulas that matter are those that lead to $/player generated, fees/system garnered, # of transactions invoked.  Those are all but four-letter words waiting to be coined as such. 

Now comes the worst of all soul rips from the genre -- the arrival of politicial correctness. Oh it's been here nearly forever, but in only the most basic of ways.  No overly crude drawings (PG13 maybe TV14 at worse), got at least three identities?  Yeah, Ok.  Got some things to keep the girls playing?  Yeah, Great (actually quite awesome).  But now we have to cater to each nationality, each approved scene, got your hipster? rapper? Goth? Skin?  Tats anyone? We got your wrapper here come join us we do not disapprove... heck no... we cater to you wanna be accepted come, come, come freak out here.  We love it.  Don't worry we don't really moderate anything so no worries.  Carry on. 

The poster that linked this genre's cycle to that of the arcade failure of the mid-80s is pretty spot on, but I do not believe arcade games really came back better in many cases.  They did for a time, but are themselves dying again in many sub-genres with only war combat / pvp enjoying any real successes.  RPGs?  Simulations?  True Arcade?  They are released limp and reeking on the vine with no lasting power beyond word of next week's maybe-this-is-it release.

I hope I can deplug for a year or two.  Maybe the revival will happen, but if not, I am not sure I will cry over it anymore.

Wish those of us leaving luck.