The real fun is in the risk vs rewards aspects of EVE where you can reap large rewards depending on how much and how well you manage risky activities. However the most fun you'll ever have in EVE is by joining a corp with like-minded players for whatever interests you period. In addition I agree solo wise EVE is pathetically boring experience especially in "safe" (if you fly around in incredibly expensive ships with equally expensive mods prepare for the eventual suicide gank) areas like Hi-Sec.

LOL. You guys don't get it at all.

Goons love to have fun however they sometimes do so by extractiong tears from people like yourselves who get all bent out of shape over them and the game itself. They also enjoy the dismnatling of the status quo which is usually held by elistist power bloc entities in EVE. In the end you just feed their ambitions and numbers with your loathing and tears. Anyways as I speak Branch is burning.

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Originally posted by Royalkin
One Word. Addiction.

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The more your hate flows toward goons and their allies  the more they grow in strenght and numbers. Frankly anyone who takes EVE seriously to the point of "hating" a group of players needs a swift kick in the butt to be remind that in the end "Its just a game. So laugh stupid!"

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Originally posted by WhiteLantern
The "Vaporware Death Cult" should move on to this game. Seriously, is this game ever going to see release? Smoke and mirrors all around.

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Its not going to happen because Arena.Net has workable and playable demos, it has screenshots and movies of the game itself. They have also provide a lot of detail on many aspects of the game. So yeah any mention of this game being "vaporware" is done so by people with the attention span of 12 year old with ADD.

I don't see this game challenging Diablo 3 because Diablo 3 is targeting a different demographic (aka people not seeking a MMORPG .) Furthermore I see the weak link in the chain in terms of classes appears to be the Archer. If you notice carefully the Archer is somewhat less then dynamic and impactful in combat compared to the Mage or Knight classes. Another potential issue I see is the limiting factor of just 3 classes in this game especially if it is going to enter the MMORPG market were people like to choose from more then just the holy trinity.

Other then that the game looks pretty damn nice and I suspect it will have lots of fans in Korea and maybe some in the US/Europe (so long as they don't attach a horrible grind to it ala L1 and L2). I also like the 3d isometric view which is nostalgic for me in so many ways.

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Originally posted by Pelaaja

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Originally posted by kashiegamer
Bioware declares they are aware of their fans' problem with their recent games, especially Dragon Age 2. They hinted that they might take inspiration from Bethesda's recent blockbuster hit, Skyrim.
 
Full article here:
http://asia.gamespot.com/news/next-dragon-age-taking-cues-from-skyrim-6347939?tag=updates%3Beditor%3Ball%3Btitle%3B1

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Hmm, they copied WoW to make a MMO. They copy Skyrim to make a SRPG.
Is this company a new Blizzard?
Another company without invention milking out from others success? BW? BIOWARE IS IT.

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I can't think of a single Bioware game that was open world and skilled based like Skyrim, Fallout 3, Oblivion, etc.

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Originally posted by Chivalry1978

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Originally posted by Xzen
EvE's system would be tough to improve on. But there is no better in existance at the moment.

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LOL you must not have played that game when it was brand new. over 20 people were banned in 1 days time for organizing a massive pvp fight to lower security ratings of sectors in order to make more lowsec space, the fact we killed the concord police and navy as well as two gms before they console killed the entire 200+ fleet.....Many were given week ban other perm ban...This was faught and argued however in the end he who runs the game makes the rules...the fact that they still allow this to happen on a smaller scale still tickles me and the fact that they now reward players for beating up on noobs also tickles me...The game as no aspect of pvp to make new players want to join and play as the time it would take to generate enough sp to be able to fight against other players is just way to long...Im sorry if Im going to shell out 2 years worth of subs I might as well play a f2o game and max level then buy my win, would cost about the same amount and can be done in less time.

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High-Sec regions of space are relatively safe, especially for new players in starter systems. Also you can't lower security ratings for systems in EVE period as they are set in stone by the devs.

Maybe this was true on day one but a whole lot has changed in EVE and many lessons were learned and applied to make it "easier" to be a noob in EVE. Also while you can suicide gank people by using a mass of cheaply fit ships in high sec there is enough risk (losing money and having Concord blow you up before you can succesful gank) to prevent mass amounts sadists from overwhelming the game. Frankly speaking EVE is the only game I've encountered that has made a FFA work via its method of having gradients of risk taking zones.

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Originally posted by Venger
Eve and Darkfall are bad ones to look at when it comes to skill games because I believe both have unlimited skill cap.  One character mastering everything regardless of how hard it is or not is terrible.

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When it comes to Darkfall you are right because in that game there is very little to prevent a player from bring to bear all their abilities. A player can easlity swith from magic to combat melee to archery with little issues and in many cases mix magic with melee/archery, etc. And this is what makes Darkfall so flawed because it allows players with more skills to dominate. Darkfall is a game that needs cap on skills be it a hard cap or "soft cap "of sorts as seen in EVE.

Now in regards to EVE you couldn't be anymore wrong. In fact I don't even think you've played it let alone know enough to bring it up in conversation. Can you learn every skill in EVE? Yes you can do so as a player but there is a "soft cap" of sorts in EVE which effects combat and prevents the OP pvp situations you see in Darkfall.

Thus the important part you are missing or have neglected to mention is that you cannot bring all those skill to bear in a PVP situation in EVE due to the aforementioned "soft cap". The way this "soft cap" works in EVE is that you can only use the relevant skills which effect the abilities of the current ship you are flying in combat in EVE.

So in the end it doesn't mean much if you are flying in a Tech 1 Rifter and you have 150 million skill points and you encounter a player with 30 million skill points who is flying a tech 2 assault frigate he will tear into you with a vengeance unless you are highly knowledgeable of combat tactics in EVE or he is completely ignorant and clueless as to how to properly fly and kill your ship.

Thus all those extra skill points for a older player are nullified and proved worthless if he is flying the wrong type of ship or has the wrong load out of modules for the given encounter and even then having a good knowledge of tactics and under pressure reactions in EVE space combat will matter just as much if not more so in a given combat situation then your actual SP or ship load out.

Furthermore there are small time limits on re-docking, re-shipping and changing ships which further limit the ability of higher SP players from abusing the skill system in EVE.

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Originally posted by rawfox
i think it may moderatly grow as it is very good after a marely short development time.
it has massive room for improvements and if BW is doing it right, it can grow.
 
let se what there will come the next months

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Unfortunately most improvements will be fought tooth and nail by the spergy fan base on the forums who tinge any integration of improvements with a comparison with their hate for WoW. Meanwhile they completely ignore the fact of the on-rails theme park nature of SW:TOR that would actually benefit from applying some of the lessons and refinements found in that "other game".

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Originally posted by Zylaxx
WoW had a terrible release, constant queues, loot bugs for 2 weeks.  Chat bug for a month, glitches and animation fiasco's for 4 days.  WoW was my no stretch by the imagination a good launch.  Rift however was a marvelous launch and doesnt get credit where its due, maybe because the end game is shit. 

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Most of what you have described was a result of lag based on soaring server populations which included the "loot bug". Furthermore there are similar chat bugs (the other day I lost the ability to type in party with SW:TOR until I re-logged), animation bugs (try skipping through cut-scenes) and other similar bugs you've mentioned that can be scene in SW:TOR. In the end I think you really are over exaggerating the actual nature of WoW's limited problems at launch of which the greatest were a result of lag due to servers being at complete max capacity.

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Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
I love how there's just one more product upsell on that page (SWG Memory Book: Coming Soon!).
Even in death, they gotta make a buck.
(Decent letter though)

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Ummmmmm.....that's because SWG was solely designed to "make a buck".

I am currently playing SW:TOR and frankly I'll am not going to miss out on GW 2 just because I am playing SW:TOR. Furthermore SW:TOR has its pros but it also has a lot of cons that make me sometimes wish I was playing other games like WoW which is way more refined game play mechanics wise or GW2 which has some interesting and innovating game play mechanics, i.e. everyone being able to easily switch roles of tank, support, dps in a fight.

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Originally posted by Ubermeh

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Originally posted by Zecktorin

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Originally posted by DexterMMO
Gw2 will be superior to gw1... Its a real mmo, not a quest hub co-op.

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Dosen't mean it will do any better.... 

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I wouldn't say GW1 was a failure, would you?
GW2 will have Tons of players but I don't think it will be the SWTOR killer.

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And frankly SWTOR isn't a Wow killer either. SW:TOR will eventually fade out unless the developers of that game move toward a direction of improving and stream-lining the theme park experience they've created. As it stands now SW:TOR from a technical stand point doesn't do much outside of the cut-scene story telling. For example classes are still stuck on the "unholy trinty" of either being dps, tank, or healer on top of not being able to dual-spec or having access to a cross realm dungeon finder.

However in GW2 any class can play any role in the game neither dual-spec or cross realm dungeon finders are necessary at all. Furthermore the realm vs realm vs realm pvp is way more innovate then what there is in SW:TOR via their version of single server battle grounds. This isn't even mentioning the fact that GW2 will not be a traditional p2p monthly MMO.

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Originally posted by waynejr2

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Originally posted by nerovipus32

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Originally posted by Angier2758

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Originally posted by gaugemew
Skill based = I can choose my skills randomly.
Class based = someone tells me what skills I have.
Choice vs. Not Choice.
 
 
Unless you can refute that, please don't post about this again.

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Ok finally home so I can quote you.....
 
Skill based = someone tells you what to choose more subtley.
class based = someone just tells you what to choose.
 
 As other people have said... useless options are not true options. If a game says they have 100 different classes... but only 10 are decent... do they have 100 classes to choose from ?  Yes.... what are your real choices?  10....
The 100 is an illusion.
 
 

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how is skill based someone telling you what to choose, when the choice is yours to make? take swg for example i could choose tkm, and either choose to master swordsman with some fencer abilities, or i could choose to master fencer and get some swordsman abilities, but i dont have to choose either if i don't want to, i could choose combat medic or i could choose to unlock my force sensitive skill tree and try to unlock jedi or just get a few skills in force sensitvity, heck i could just say screw it and become an entertainer. the choice is entirely mine..what is it you're not understanding?

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Well, the game devs give you a choice between sword use and bow use for a game set in ancient rome.  What I want is the ability to use machine guns but I am forced to pick from a limited list.

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If you play a game set in the ancient days of Rome then it would be reasonable and logical to have only items which ancient Romans might of used rather then death rays and machine guns. That is not a limit placed on game play by skill based games but on the nature of the theme and setting of the game which is found in all games, movies, books, etc be they MMO's or not.

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Originally posted by Quirhid

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Originally posted by winter
Try Skyrim its a well done Skill based system were each skill has its value, andf making the choice of what to put perks in is sometimes really hard. Saying that in all skill based games one only has a illusion of choice is like saying in real life one only has the illusion of choice.

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Nope. Magic is the way to go in Skyrim because melee combat is dull in comparison. Some perks are good, others are completely useless, and some of the combinations are more useful than others. I found choosing perks in Skyrim was extremely easy.
If you look back at Morrowind, magic was in a gross disadvantage because there was no mana regeneration. It was "fixed" in the later games.
EDIT: Some of the shouts to oare completely useless whereas others are overpowered.

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You are confusing "Fun" which is subjective to personal opinion to "Viability" which is determined by the options which allow certain skills to carry you through the game.

It is totally possible to have viable melee character in Skyrim which you view as being boring and "not fun" but others view as being awesomely fun (**whack...giggle..hack...giggle..slash**)and that actually allows you or that other person who enjoys melee combat to progress through the game.

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Originally posted by Slowdoves

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Originally posted by marinrider

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Originally posted by Slowdoves

How is EvE a Sandbox again?
You take a Stargate, game cuts out, your screen loads without a loading bar into a new Solar System. I don't think this game is as open as you guys think it is.

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No one is claiming that its fully open.  Otherwise you would end up with so much more deadspace than is already in Eve.
Besides, the definition of "sandbox" is subjective, so stop trying to troll.

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Not trolling, doing nothing more than stating the obvious!
By your statement, you are saying that EvE is also heavly instanced already? I can agree, seeing how there are so many damn solar systems.

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Most games have some form of instancing or chunking (e.g. A form of instancing seen Vanguard:SOH) which is used as a mechanism to separate zones, dungeons, etc but that hardly applies any sort of influence on whether or not it will be a Theme-park or Sand-Box MMO. Those terms have more to them then just how developers break up chunks/sections of the game world.

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Originally posted by Slowdoves

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Originally posted by jpnz
Number 1 rule of EVE.
Do not fly if you can not afford to lose it!
Or join a corp.
EVE-University is awesome.
Or get involved in a community like Reddit (Test Alliance) or SomethingAwful (Goonswarm).

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Forced grouping? Wait, I though all you Old Schoolers hated this shit. Being forced to do something you don't want to do.
 

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Can you give me an extensive list of "Old Schoolers" that is a representative of the majority demographics of said "Old Schoolers" which shows congruent acceptance to "hating force grouping"?

Second EVE doesn't force you to group, other players force you to group if you want to do any activity with a modicum of risk involved that also has a possibility of offering a good-great reward then its going to require effort and that effort is best distrusted and managed by grouping with and working with other players.

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Originally posted by Slowdoves
How is EvE a Sandbox again?
You take a Stargate, game cuts out, your screen loads without a loading bar into a new Solar System. I don't think this game is as open as you guys think it is.

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World layout and management has very little to do with what actually determines if a MMO is a sand-box or theme-park MMO. In fact what you are describing are qualities of a instanced vs open world MMO which can be found in different MMO's be they theme-park or sand-box (e.g. a MMO which doesn't overly restrict your actions or lead you in one direction or another in terms of how, when, where, etc your character should growth).

Furthermore anyone can enter the next solar-system you've entered. No one is locked out of your solar system. If you are being chased by reds the act of jumping through to the next system won't prevent people from following you at all in that system to pop and pod your ship/character.

If only Darkfall hadn't been a exercise in masochism and anti-social behavior.