maybe the french guys should... challenge them to a farm-off... the quake challenge worked for notch rofl why cant a farm-off work here too??

best one to grow crops wins? lololol

i cant wait to see half the player pop banned for TKing each other... the problem with flying is the 360* view tends to confuse people who arent really dedicated to the style of play, making it  super easy for team mates to shoot each other out of the sky... WoT it was not as bad as you had a limited FoV on the ground but in the sky.. oh boy...

i really wonder how this game will respond to mouse and keyboard playing.. or if its going to rely 100% on joystick/console controller

Originally posted by Larsa

Originally posted by Ichmen

how the hell do they rate social as a 9/10??? 90% of the time the very first person you run in to kills you and loots your noob junk.. there is no "world" chat of any kind.. so unless you are joining people you know already  there is no socializing @_@... most people avoid others to get away from being PKed by people with higher stats or "aged" toons.. 

 

i dont think the reviewer spent enough time trying HnH.. iv been playing it for a few months and have died 3 times (1 to pk 1 to a bug killing me by a bear and 1 to a boar) the total socializing i have done has netted me 0 other then being killed by people.. and raided by others.. not exactly selling points for a game :/ 

...

Hehe, ichmen, keep calm. :) What you wrote about getting killed by players can happen, but it doesn't happen always, and not even very frequently. Yes, there are many bad apples that play H&H to make life for their fellow players as ugly as they can - but they're not the majority.

You even write that you played a few months and got killed by a player exactly once. For a FFA PvP game that's nothing. Granted, the permadeath feature makes every death of a developed character a big pain, but then the inheritance gives you a little headstart with your new character - you inherit the claim and all items on the claim. Granted again, everything you had on your character that got killed is likely lost.

Personally, I think the social rating of the reviewer is in order, not necessarily because of the sheer number of social contacts in the game but because of the intensity. I played as hermit with my own claim and it took me a few weeks (RL time) to get a small network of neighbours for support and trade - and I felt pretty safe. Later I joined a village but kept living on my personal claim.

I played for about half a year (world 5 and 6 I think) and got killed twice while I killed one other player. Both my deaths were caused by me taking a risk - and I knew perfectly well that what I was doing was risky.

 

i only got pked once, do to me moving to the middle of nowhare after. the majority of villages around me now are dead instead of the more active area i spawned in to. but i still do not feel the social ranting is valid at 9/10. as there is 0 socializing, iv talked to people while raiding 100% dead villages and towns for junk.  the forums are full of flame wars and baiting so unless you are rating the forums 9/10 id rate the social aspect a 5/10 simply because you do some times run across friendly non-hostile people, but a majority of the time you see another person you run the other way.. as most  will kill you  more so if you are in the north west areas of the game map.

how about you buy PONG i hear its better then all of those games put together in a blender and mixed ontop of the best sherbert icecream....

honestly though, dont ask people what game YOU should buy... buy a game YOU want to buy... everyone else has their own tastes.. so you shouldnt rely on interweb people to make your choices... other wise people will sell you a "sunny" beach front in antartica :/

how the hell do they rate social as a 9/10??? 90% of the time the very first person you run in to kills you and loots your noob junk.. there is no "world" chat of any kind.. so unless you are joining people you know already  there is no socializing @_@... most people avoid others to get away from being PKed by people with higher stats or "aged" toons.. 

i dont think the reviewer spent enough time trying HnH.. iv been playing it for a few months and have died 3 times (1 to pk 1 to a bug killing me by a bear and 1 to a boar) the total socializing i have done has netted me 0 other then being killed by people.. and raided by others.. not exactly selling points for a game :/ 

while i try to not rage on it, the client suffers from alot making the use of Enders almost manditory (more so for the better minimap and area of effect of hostile monsters) as well its not the kinda of game anyone can really casually play, as casual playing tends to get you screwed over alot, not only do you risk getting raided while you are offline (if you dont invest the time to get a land claim and palisade wall up on day 1 of playing) but you will find doing alot of stuff really time consuming that casual play would be next to impossible (first palisade wall requires 24hr real life hours to set before you can make the wall, Ergo you have to dedicate almost 24-36hrs of solid game play to avoid having your wall greift by some D-bag who catches you offline and seals your wall.. making it useless.. and yes that does happen... alot...)

i find the overview of the game to be false.. as it like salam are hailed as a crafting mmo, when its more of a FFA PVP mmo with crafting..  though the worst thing out of everythign with HnH (dispite some of the less savoiry players) is the horrible server issues, the server has bad lag spikes and outright crashes at random at times its feels like you have a 900 ping and are rubber banding continusely (which can be painful if you are running from a bear or a boar.. or a nice player who wants to show you what your insides look like)

while the game CAN be fun.. for alot of people who get a spawn in a really bad spot or have no other players to join up with.. the game can and will be downright unbareable at times.. both with the annoying crafting system and the delightful players who kill you simply because you are there. 

should add to make anything in HnH, you have to get the LP to learn the skill then have enough points to discover all the item's crafting parts (to make a water flask you have to learn leather working and then create leather, from tanned hides you get from killing animels.. before you can craft a low quality water flask...  making a brick wall (best in game) you have to unlock stonesmithy or something like that, discover clay, build a kiln, smelt clay in to bricks "discover brick" then mine iron and make bars to get the crafting recipe for a brick wall... very time consuming and annoying if you "borrow" any parts of the recipe you still cant make it without "discovering it"

call me bias but i really do not agree with allowing players to melee defense walls with their bare hands.. even in HnH i think the only wall a person should beable to "bash" are the round fence.. as to me its a picket fence.. 

while its great salem will over haul that.. i really do hope they do away with players being able to break any sort of wall with a hammer... sure in hnh most have 100+ str and a high Q sledgehammer but honestly i think its just retarded to allow that as a mechanic.

as for defending.. thats only useful if you can defend.  when i was pked in HnH the first time the guy 1 hit me for 1500 dmg. i had 0 fighting skills besides UA. as well given that most raiders run as a duel team or more.. having 4 people hit your walls pretty much means you will be sniped before you really do anything :/

they really should make the battering ram a more important item. once a person has an actual wall up it shouldnt be just "hot knife through butter"ed 

i really do hope they make walls impregnable to anything other then a battering ram.  i mean hell they had chests in hnh that you had to use a ram on... yet the pally wall you didnt... sounds kinda stupid to me.

i just really hope alot of the bad crap they have right now are just temp and will be improved before launch.. while i like HnH id rather salam be something more then just a reclone of it :/ given the fact iv been reading about raiders this early on in their beta.. is kinda worrysome.  id kinda rather see raiders take time to develop instead you can become a raider at day one almost   which could lead to a huge drop in players if a new player walks out of boston and is wiped out by 30 raiders just camping. 

i get what you are saying TwoThreeFour.. but  a GUI mod is not a hack.. changing textures and screen GUI really isnt hacking. 

hacking is where you go and instantly unlock all skills in the game on the first day, or modify your stats that you have 1000 in all classes and 1 hit everything.. 

from what i have read about salam.. and how the devs have/had run HnH im really worried this game will be dead before it even has a shot. 

they seem to be relying too heavy on player mods which to me sounds like they arent really dedicated in bringing out a really good game. they put too much expectation in players using 3rd party clients and mods to make their game enjoyable. which to a gamer should be what THEY want... this is kinda like going to mcdonalds wanting a medium rare steak, and getting what ever the hell it is they call steak @_@...

dispite the noob griefing in HnH its a fairly enjoyable game (when it wants to behave..) id love for salam to be 30x better but frankly the way the devs are producing the game right now im kinda disappointed in it. they boast about how great the vision is and all that, but they dont seem to actually care about the game at all.  if they did, they wouldnt be making bots less effective but making bots totally pointless as well as making an offical client that doesnt require a 3rd party to  make it better.  im all for using ender client or whatever.. but i would rather have an offical client that is better then that.  have modified clients that only streamline the hud/gui not revamp the whole freaking game ><"   using HnH's client loadout... the offical one should be basicly  as good as the ender's one. enders should only be used as an optimizer  steamline stuff (kinda how they did it with skyrim) not replace the whole bloody thing. 

i really do hope that this is only do to the beta and they will be overhauling 90% of this stuff before release cause right now.. this game is basicly a 3d  HnH and  suffering the exact same problems. which means while they might boast about having 1500 people... the max they might have is 500 user accounts with 50% being alts that are boting. 

im not too bothered by the graphics personally but i honestly do not like having to use a 3rd party client (to me that crys of lazy, and if the devs are lazy then the game will be coded lazy.. :/ )

a random question as i was checking the salam forums a while back.. any word on how they plan to setup player towns?? i was reading that they did away with most of the defense walls.. have they altered the user claim protection at all?? i personally dont like the fact they allow players to punch down solid walls but to take the walls out all together will limit the "noobs" protection from being PK farmed by more experianced/older players.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Some statements by the developer known as "Brother Bean" in the CB forum:

 

Botting and custom clients are first of all two entirely separate issues. On the subject of custom clients Ender -- who developed the standard custom client for our other game H&H -- has been in the Salem alpha for quite some time with the more or less explicit intention on our part that he'd be able to develop a custom client if he so choose. I fully support him in that endeavor and think it's great that he does what he does.

There exists a misconception that we *can* somehow prevent custom clients from being used. If we could in any feasible way do that we just might, but since we can't -- a user's system is always in a very fundamental sense in control of all I/O that the client sends, receives and presents -- we have instead opted for the alternate route of encouraging their development. The best we could ever hope for is making custom client builders jump through some hoops, and that is ultimately an entirely futile exercise. Why not let people innovate and add convenient things to the game that we didn't think of or simply didn't put in there?

On the subject of botting our general philosophy is to try to remove incentives for botting rather than trying to attack and prevent botting as such. The latter approach we believe to be flawed for the same reason that we do not prevent custom clients from being used: The user's system is always in control of all I/O. We cannot change that, nor would we really want to.

 

and here is a reply Brother Bean wrote to the tester Dallane:

 

 

 

 Originally Posted by Dallane 

I'm trying to figure out why everyone who post about custom clients lead their post directly into botting. Other then foraging i have no idea what would be a good bot to even have. With a forage bot your character will be exposed at all times and with limited inventory space you will not get far even with eating and study along the way. Without all the teleporting that happens in hnh you will have to stay outside your walls or hope that your script works to close a gate. HnH botting was done behind brick walls, deep in a mine or with alts collecting tons of dirt clay or trees. Most of those activities are much different here and don't really make sense to bot.

"

Indeed. It has been a conscious and ongoing effort on our part to try to design mechanics in such a way that botting them doesn't feel attractive. The main concept we throw around in our discussions on the subject is "decisions". The one thing that machines cannot do as effectively as humans -- lacking the inherent capability of teleological action -- is to decide between multiple outcomes where all potential outcomes are -- in one sense or another and depending on context -- acceptable. For example, do you eat the chestnut, or do you study it? Most humans A) Have no problem whatsoever determining which course of action best advances their present goals and B) Quite like making meaningful decisions on how to play the game. A bot faced with the same situation has a tougher time, as it needs to be provided by its maker with some sort of AI strategy to make that decision, and programming that AI can quickly expand into a project where the AI basically has to be able to play the entire game.

Mechanics that lend themselves well to botting are mechanics that are completely devoid of decision making -- i.e. that are dull and repetitative -- foraging in Salem is probably the least decision intensive activity you can engage in presently -- walk, pick, walk, pick, walk, pick -- and that is a concern of ours that we have been discussing ways of changing. As Dallane points out, however, we at least have the saving graces here that you cannot wilderness spawn freely as you can in Haven, and that you cannot teleport home with things in your inventory. A bot that walks out to gather poo-poo must thus, at the very least, be able to make its own way home again.

I fully expect there to be bots accomplishing various tasks in the game at one point or another -- to the extent that such tasks can be isolated and performed well and efficiently in a closed circuit that a bot can handle -- so don't take this as some sort of declaration of victory on my part in the war on the machines. The war on the machines never ends, but I like to think that the frontlines are at least not collapsing in on us.

 

 

then why dont they just scrap their offical client and make enders the offical client?? they seem to use the excuse (players will do it better) which while true for the most part.. kinda sounds like a copout to me.  just because ender was a great client in HnH doesnt mean the devs cant make a better one.. sounds to me like they knew he would make the client and just said "screw it.. here is a PoS client go use enders" 

as for their botting.. that bothers me, sounds like they arent even going to try and combat it at all.  saying they will make it less effective is like saying, there are no hacks in counter strike..

just because to them it seems less effective doesnt mean it will be.  over all it sounds like they just arent interested in making their game high quality or secure.. whats to stop someone using a hack to give them selves god mode? or modify their stats??  if this is the stance they take on player modifications...  it kinda worries me, reading the HnH forums about bug abuse and how they arent even combating it a majority of the time makes me wonder if they will follow that trend here as well. 

but still i honestly dont see why they can not make a client just as good as enders.  i mean fallout had player modded UI that just improved the base UI. same with skyrim and other games.  the mods only improved it for ease of use or sorting.. enders in HnH overhaulled the client so much that it was a whole new client pretty much. (fact is.. salem like HnH pretty much HAS to have the ender to be playable... which is what bugs me the most)

first people need to learn how to spot an actual beta, and how to spot a marketing beta.... both are vastly different... 

a real beta, the devs actually post things they want tested they ask for players views on changes before saying the change is 100% in final build..

marketing beta, they make you sign up or spam links to people to join.. and basicly say "go nuts" aka play the game not test.. 

a good example.. is stuff like the GW2 beta going on, that is more of a marketing beta and not a beta test.. as you arent really testing its just boosting popularity for it..  may as well call it a demo.. 

while people love to throw out the "its beta" alot of the time its BS.. once a game enters "gold" status its not a beta.  sure MMOs are nothing like single player games.. in thatthey are always having new content and patches... its safe to assume the minute they start charging money.. or the patches take long periods of time to come about.. its not a beta. 

games try to sucker people in to thinking they are betas when they arent.  i can throw a beta tag on WoW ... but does that make it a beta?? nope... even if it keeps getting patches its a "gold" game.  GW2 is pretty much "gold" now as well.  

you see beta used alot for games that are f2p or on facebook alot.. doesnt make them betas...  people use it way to much to cover up for game failings... rather sad

Originally posted by Divion

Originally posted by Ichmen

then what you are asking is "are you a 1337 pro gamer" not stero-type. 

a stero-type gamer (to me anyway) is a person who spends the vast majority of their free time playing a video game. before school/work you game, after you game. before bed you game.. ect. 

the asian gamers who have died playing WoW in the past, i wouldnt call stero-types.. as not every 1337 pro gamer  acts as they do.

just look at the SC1/2 terny gamers.. they are more then stero-type gamers and most are skinny and healthy. 

 

but then again perhaps my view on it differs from yours. which does happen alot.  

A stereo-type is the socialogical assumption, or perception by the cultural norm, and mainstream.

Most people -assume- (Usually incorrectily) that Gamers are fat, unkept, unhealthy 15 through 30 year olds with no job, or a poor job, no social life, introverted, and social misfits.

god you make it sound like such a bad thing HAHAHAH :"P i really should get out more.. find out what this social norm is you speak of :P owell ~goes back to gaming~ ROFL

times have changed though, alot of the social norm is out of date.. least what i have seen of it. 

while i would totally play an AA-reloaded... it would need alot more polish.. when i played during its free period it lacked sooo much stuff that it felt rushed and more alphaed then anything. 

major downer for me is you spend 90% of the whole game in a car.. yet there is no music... nothing but gun fire and stuff.. which gets boring really fast. as well most bosses werent really a challenge. i recall tag teaming the helo boss with a guy without wiping at all. 

boss should have taken more people or wiped us but didnt. (and no i dont recall being higher level then it..)

havent touched the others you posted.. but id love to see some of the older games reloaded... hard to say if they will most are "dated" now so gamers now might not want to play them without a vast over haul 

then what you are asking is "are you a 1337 pro gamer" not stero-type. 

a stero-type gamer (to me anyway) is a person who spends the vast majority of their free time playing a video game. before school/work you game, after you game. before bed you game.. ect. 

the asian gamers who have died playing WoW in the past, i wouldnt call stero-types.. as not every 1337 pro gamer  acts as they do.

just look at the SC1/2 terny gamers.. they are more then stero-type gamers and most are skinny and healthy. 

but then again perhaps my view on it differs from yours. which does happen alot.  

yes im a stero-typical gamer but i voted no on your poll. as im smart enough to know how to eat healthy and not rely on overly transfatty greaseballs of more fat for food. 

been gaming since 1988ish so ya.. honestly dont see how people let their bodies go to the point they are 9000lbs but owell each their own. 

proper eating habits is something smart to "power level" if you plan to keep on gaming... other wise you wind up losing more then just A life on/in a game

while this idea sounds like fun. its pretty hard this year to find a quality mmo that is f2p or freedium..  most are either gender locked classes or just out right so bad you play for 5minutes then go back to windows solitare..

i tried out  brickforce's closed beta since there are very few "interesting" f2p mmos out right now.  i dont even care about gw2 at this point.. played vanilla gw1 got bored. 

but i digress, good luck finding a good mmo,  STO on steam is alright... max is lv 50 dont have to spend money on it. but i havent really found any reason to keep playing at 50. 

DCU-o is ok.. combat is rather boring.

well if its the ender client.. that has been the stable for these guys since HNH... as without ender's hnh client the game is downright unplayable.. as it gives you a map out line of boar attack ranges and such. and land claims... which the base client never had.. and really should have.. 

frankly if they are still using ender as their go to for client.. im kinda worried they are basicly just making hnh 2.0... which means the game will have the life span of moldy bread... i like hnh but frankly i dont want an exact clone >>" which every beta video i watch sums this up to.. 

its like playing CoD 1 and then playing CoD 2... same game just a flashier cover... i hope its just a beta thing and that they will make their own offical client...other wise whats the point not using cheats in the game too... they allowed botting in hnh to the point people had 1+ alts just logging trees and another 1+ just transporting trees.. same with mining and farming.. 

i kinda hoped having paradox as a publisher they would hopefully curtail the "modding" aspects of the game.. i like the ender client but id rather have it as the offical default >>" then a 3rd party

oh so you dont need to boost survival and perseption to find rossroot anymore?? to find ore vains? kinda sucks to take that out but i guess they might help people find spots to mine.. 

the drawback to HnH i found was almost every cave point was taken to some extent even by alts just ploping claims on it and paling the door (could tell it was an alt given it was just that..)

thanks for replying though.  hopefully they arent limiting the "hermit" players. i know the minehole was the next best thing for a hermit to have if not a secured cave :/ limiting that might tunnel vision the player base to limited locations, while that might not seem too bad.. it can be for a totally brand new player if they are kinda forced in to contact with more experianced or long time players who can just pk at will.

have you heard any thing on how the PKing will be delt with? will it be the similer "whiteknighting" of HNH where you have to beg and plead a ranger to hunt someone for you? or is the pk looking to be little bit less extreme?? (aka a person wont just kill you for the sake of killing you..)

agreed. thanks for the point of view twothreefour.

the afk stuff bugged me as well, but i dont really like the phlem way they did studying..but thats just me, i find that kinda "learning" as a grinder not just simple xp gaining.

i never did finish my mine hole in HNH rofl i think its just short logs or something.. does me no good as i dont have stats for mining...  did they atleast change that aspect?? or do you have to have 100 str just to mine (or so it comes across) or can you actively attempt to mine at "noob" status?

makes me wonder how people will handle the pvp if they cant quickly farm up an alt... HnH's bane was always people had like 4 toons on the go.. be it an bot for something or grinding stats for pali-bashing.. (which i hope they narfed in salam..i dont personally believe 1 man should beable to break down a fortified wall imo)

Originally posted by cichicean

Originally posted by Toxia

Originally posted by Ichmen

well im kinda worried about this company/game... for the last few days/2 weeks this game as been posted on mmorpg their "official" site link send you to a warning page about A-DB being hacked... on top of that this game is not listed at all on their official game portal

https://en.gamigo.com/

you can only find it on their trailer page (and frankly i dont consider a trailer as a source for game info..)

kinda worrysome.. that there is zero info on this game.. not even a splash page saying its in the works :/

Tis a scam!

*tinfoil hat* ON

Try not to scare ppl of and take a closer look at Gamigo's Official Website https://en.gamigo.com/

Grimlands is posted in their list of games with *Closed Beta* status and it has it's own webpage which is fully functional http://grimlands.gamigo.com/en/

 

thanks, my post that was quoted was from quite awhile ago now, iv looked at their portal page of the game, it sounds so so right now.. as it sounds kinda like A-A and FE mixed together (auto assault and fallen earth.. for people who dont know). 

i havent as of yet bothered applying for a beta on it, as i have my CB/ob vip beta junk with brickforce im doing and waiting to maybe get in to salem.  so please do keep everyone and my self posted on what you find after you finish downloading the client. 

if it  is worth the DL time i may jump on the beta as well and poke around.  i hope they deliver what they promise on it though, not sure how they have it setup mechanic wise (part of why im iffy joining up and downloading.. i dont really want a lobbyish style pvp game, i know its not but if they have like encounters where X total players can fight in an open world for a resource node.. that to me is a lobby)

Originally posted by RefMinor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Yeah, the unforgiving fight to survive in the wild nature is indeed appealing. I built a small house, living like a hermit, in the middle of nowhere. Haven't seen any other person near my home for over 7 hours of exploring around my house. 

 

For those new to Salem: there is only one city (which also contains NPCs), the rest is wild nature. You can teleport freely back and forth between your home and the city (name of city is called Boston),  but to teleport from any other location you need to empty your inventory. Since the world is huuuuuge, so you really need to memorize where you went so that you avoid being forced to lose the inventory items to find home/city.

I've walked hours and hours south of the city, and I am still not sure I've reached the bottom of the map.

 

Yes, I am scared to head too far away from my lean-to in case I get lost and can't find my way back.

reading those posts makes it sound like they finally made a reason to have the cartography skill that HnH had.. there was next to no reason to have/make maps of any area.. as you can just fast travel with the hearth teleport button... you walk 24hrs away and BAM home again.. 

if they disabled that (to a point) that means having/making maps now becomes needed.. as does inkweed rofl ~gets in to beta and hacks in my HnH ink pots~ rofl

while i didnt get in to the beta, im kinda bothered with how they setup the learning system, going by the paradox videos of "letsplay" on their forums.. they revamped the old LP system to a more grindy version..

instead of putting a 10LP item in to study now i have to find lower quality items to raise stats before i invest in that 10k lp it.. while also finding/making food to actually study (as the study ability runs out as you study)

i personally dont like it.. i dont see what was wrong with the older system, sure it means pumping survival and perseption to fine toad stools and floatsom kinda pointless (using the old HnH way)  now you have to spend even longer just to learn skills..

if you are default base stats and learn a 10000 xp item you just wasted 9500 xp :/ instead of just time spent like HnH's system.

there seems to be literally no XP bleed over.. so you cant stockpile XP for skills you basicly have to invest 100% even if you only need 10%.

also is there any higher quality textures out for it?? maybe its just the quality of youtube (using the video's posted max) but god the textures look really washed out like a game from 2000's :/

i hope they didnt just copy and paste HnH to 3d textures... and tweek it abit :/  the lets play make salem sound like a worst grinder then a F2P asian cookie cutter.. 

which i sure hope is not the case.. HnH had a pretty nasty unforgiving grind to it as well ><"