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All Posts by Centhan

All Posts by Centhan

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Originally posted by GregorMcgregor

The main issue with "encouraging grouping from the start is the way to go" is that most of the other players you meet are self-centered, greedy asshats that would sooner stand on your throat as give you the time of day.

The days of games like EQ and DAoC where players helped each other, or gave out gold and/or buffs is long gone.

Maybe it's just me as an older PC/mmo gamer (in his 40ies), but the future isn't looking to bright, and only seems to get worse with each new mmo that comes out. :(


Couldn't agree more, and is why I have been playing nothing but single player games for quite some time. I'm in my 40's as well and have seen nothing but a decrease in MMO game quality and an increase in asshattery over the last decade. I'm honestly not sure which of those two reasons keep me from playing MMO's more. So why do I come back here? Don't know...mainly nostalgia and the hope that some game somewhere will bring back the interest in playing an MMO again.
Originally posted by Precusor
Originally posted by UNH0LYEV1L
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi



THe laid out the paths during closed beta, press a button and the bots goes,


No way in hell, i still want to see proof. The exp is really low in this game. Took me around 9 hours to reach 10. Quests are long and mob experience is terrible. I seriously doubt the OPs claims.



lvl 50 sorc 

I actually watched Pryda play a bit.  Two thoughts honestly came to mind watching this sorcerer play...

1) Why does this look like every fantasy based MMORPG that has come out in the past 5 (or more) years

2) Why does this look like another no danger, no effort, uber easy game where someone can just run around, spam a flame AOE and kill everything in site?

Can't say I really followed the development of this one, but again, I can honestly say those were my first two impressions.

Originally posted by Vutar
Originally posted by Mr.Kujo
Originally posted by SoMuchMass

Recently all MMOs we have seen has started big and dropped big time a couple of months.  Here are some examples including SWTOR and GW2.  I will use Google but there are plenty of other sources:

SWTOR, GW2, Rift, Warhammer Online, FFXIV

WoW and Eve are the exceptions off course:


Eve Online

So can we actually see an MMO that launches and grows?  Or is that era over, in this over saturated market?


I hope we wont see. It used to be 50k people gradually increasing over time to 70k and then dropping to 40k etc. Now we have 1 million people dropping to 300k, I call that progress. I hope we won't get back to the dark ages, when mmorpg was labeled to geeks.

Give me example of "old" mmorpgs, that have larger player base than the ones you mentioned as "dropping". It is normal, the bigger number of players, the bigger the drop. Back in the days there was nothing to drop from. Of course we are not using exceptions as any reliable statistic source (WoW etc.)


You do realize you just proved why older MMO's were better right? By your own reasoning the older MMO's were not only able to maintain their initial player base but also increase it. Even after the inevitable crash. Going from 1 million to 300k is a horrible retention rate that has nothing to do with being a bigger number. Look at it in percentages. The newer games lose players at a HUGE percent compared to older games. If I were in charge of a newer MMO I would be asking why that is happening and looking back at old games to see what they did right in regard to player retention.


^ This was along the line of my thoughts as well.  Glad you brought it up.

If I were to see a MMO start today with 100K and gradually build up to 300K in the course of a short time.  I would think to myself, "hmm, they must be doing something RIGHT", and probably give that one a hard looking into.  Now take nearly every MMO that's been released in the past few years.  The typical scenario is they  start with 1M (possibly due to the IP and unrealistic hype) and within 2 months are down to 300K (or less).  I always say to myself, "figures, another typical failure pattern.  Another same old, same old MMO.  No wonder they can't retain subscribers".  Can anyone please tell me more than one recently released MMO that has actually grown in subscribers past the first 2 months?

Take EVE as an example of an "old time" MMO, and I don't even like EVE. However, I can still see they are doing something right.  It's different, and you actually have to think in that game and rely on others, at least more so than in other MMOs of today (and I use that term loosely).  If a new game would come out where they can put that same type of challenging game play in a traditional fantasy or sci-fi MMO, the genre actually may be refreshed.  Instead, we get the McDonald's/Candyland games of today that all look the same as they try to nickel and dime you to death.

Originally posted by BillMurphy
Originally posted by Centhan
Originally posted by jeeshadow
the website title is

Yes, over the years this site has become an "anything goes" gaming site.

It's been said before, but they really should just change their name and be done with it.  This is because true MMORPG games would not generate enough traffic for them.

That, and MMORPGs/MMOs come in many different shapes and sizes these days.  We're covering everything, and the new site will allow you to hide what you don't care for too.  But, really... can't you just SKIP articles you have no interest in?  I'd think it'd be a better use of time than climbing in and posting about the ones you don't want to see.  :)

I have respect for you and your site, and I'm honestly not trying to hijack this thread.  I actually DO have interest in Hearthstone, been in the beta for about a month.  I was just responding to what someone said (and rightfully so) that the site IS called MMORPG.  If you want to show other types of games that come nowhere close to that definition, fine, it's your site.

However, please don't seriously try to make me believe that two people playing a card game can very easily be defined as a MMORPG because MMORPGs come in "different shapes and sizes".  Am I supposed to believe it's MMO because thousands upon thousands of people are playing it at the same time, and it's RPG because I'm pretending to be the Novice Engineer I just played?  Come on...that's really a stretch.

Originally posted by jeeshadow
the website title is

Yes, over the years this site has become an "anything goes" gaming site.

It's been said before, but they really should just change their name and be done with it.  This is because true MMORPG games would not generate enough traffic for them.

Well, it's good that devs are at least trying things that are different.  The problem is, these "cube" games seem to be the trend now, and all the devs are looking the same trying to look different.

I've always thought gameplay trumped graphics...until I saw Minecraft, and games like them now coming out.  I just can't stand to look at a game where it seems like my Commodore 64 from the 80's had better graphics.  I like the freedom and basic style of games like this, but do we have to now wait another 20 years to get the graphics up to par with at least the year 2000?


I just have a couple modifications to your comic.  It should have him time travel back to the first panel, and meet a boar of a different color (with larger damage numbers).  Oh and maybe make the time portal a greenish color with wisps of dollar signs around it.  Now THAT would be funny.


(I know, this article was meant to be light humor and I ruined it.  Shame on me).

Originally posted by Voqar


Voqar wins the award for the best post I've seen on this forum in years (from both the "pros" and non-pros).  This should be a sticky, but it might get buried beneath ads from..umm...Neverwinter and Ancient Summoner (?!?!)  ...sigh

Hats off to the OP as well.  Terrific post.  I'm totally with you, and feel your "Ding" 

Very good article. Just a few random thoughts....


I vaguely recall an article on here when Diablo III was being released that was explaining why it was being included on MMORPG. I forget what the reasons were, but the true reason in my opinion was that it was very popular and very hyped pre-release, and it was was simply listed here to get more viewers to the page. I guess if you only had true MMOs on this site, it would be pretty desolate, having maybe 20 games or so.


That said, the MMO requirements for listing games here are pretty thin. When I think “massively”, I think of 100's or even 1000's playing together on the same server, interacting directly (glad you mentioned Planetside2). Any “match” based game with a fixed number of players on each side (LoL, Smite, Global Agenda, etc..) just doesn't fit this category. I mean you might as well call video poker and Farmville massively multiplayer as well. Think about how many thousands of people are playing those games around the world right at this moment. It doesn't matter that they are not playing them together, the games are still being played at the same time, and based on the way games make the list, I think should be included on this MMO site. I guess the problem I have is that the term “massively” applied to many of these games is very misleading. Same goes for the term “free” being applied to many FTP games, but that is a discussion for another post...


Voqar, you sir, are my hero.

Great post.

Just one word to sum up your post, and the main reason (not the only reason) that current MMOs have gone to crap...MONEY.  The greedy pursuit of it has ruined not only the MMO genre we used to know and love, but nearly every other facet of life of well.

They think...should we design a game to get 2 people paying $15 a month or 20 people paying $5 a month on average purchasing extra inventory space, fluff items, pay-to-win items, and extra experience boosts?  The result has been turning MMOs into a third world garage sale atmosphere that repels most of us.

Just a side note with a couple of the EQN graphics comments.  I don't mind the non-realistc graphics at all.  It runs smoother, and it really doesn't make that much difference to me as long as the GAMEPLAY is challenging.  When people scream for better looking/more realistic graphics, I think of what a disaster EQ2 was when they tried to go that route.  It ran not so smoothly, and frankly looked horrible.

No, I suspect it will be like playing Ebay Next.

That was my one disappointment of the entire presentation.  The Landmark game concept seems very good.  The selling of your creations for real world cash makes it a virtual nightmare.  Can only imagine getting 8,000 shouts and private tells a minute along the lines of...

Selling Pink towers.Cheap, only $23 each!!!

Discount archways and moats, go to!!!

Buy our castles!!!  Small $50, medium $75, large $100.  OMGZ, no better deals anywhere!!

So you might say, "ok, you don't like it, stay away from Landmark".  Only thing is, you don't think that kind of garbage is going to infect the "regular" EQN servers?  Think again.   Gets me more disappointed the more I think about how this one concept will ruin the whole thing for me.

Everything was looking very good, good or average, nothing bad, until I saw this one thing, which made me feel like I got punched in the gut and slapped in the face at the same time.  That was the Landmark feature of selling your own creations for real cash.  Just no, please no.  Opens the doors for every scam in the world, and turns the game into a Second Life, 3rd world, Ebay, game.

Just my initial impression...

I'm going with...

Oh!  That's not right!

Oh!  That's not right! photo MyMovie_mpeg4_3.gif

Originally posted by lizardbones

Meh. I think a lot of people on this site are going to be like, "WTF?" when they log into the game. The most interesting part is going to be watching kvetch about the game on these forums.

This is what I'm thinking too.  I'm taking the pessimist route with this game, as I have with every other MMO that has come out in the last few years (and that attitude has served me and my wallet very well).  This is coming from someone who's favorite all time MMOs were run by SOE, which were EQ and PS.  As someone else said in this thread, they know how to make and ruin good MMOs, and in my opinion, EQ2 and PS2 were both "lite" versions of EQ and PS.  I don't expect EQN to be any improvement, but another McDonaldized, cash shop, version of the original EQ, even more so than they did with EQ2 (and PS2). 

My only hope is that I am 100% wrong.

To answer the OP's question, I am certainly watching it (for EQ nostalgic reasons mainly), but I am far from excited for two reasons. 

1) No real information has been released so far

2) I have become very immune to the hype train from this site, and others.  The advertising machine has definitely cried wolf too many times



Originally posted by rwyan

If you're expecting something deep, immersive and engaging.... then yeah, you will find it lacking.  But, if you're playing it for the action-online-rpg that it really is, I think you'll find it exceptionally fun :)



Yes, this is pretty much it, except that I respectfully disagree and don't think it's fun even for a quick, action online rpg.  I ran through the first "tutorial" part, ran a few standard quests, ran a small instance, then uninstalled it.  Don't understand what the fuss is about this one.  Just the standard "click here, get your reward" type of junk  we've been handed lately.  Not even remotely engaging or fun.  Seeing my cleric's "special" ability just made me eye-roll.  Looked like Marty McFly on a Mattel hoverboard.

Good post.  We are dead and gone, and I've excepted that.  I'm part of the 40+ generation of gamers who played when games were actually challenging.  I don't know if society is being reflected in the modern games, or vice versa, but there is a connection there somewhere.  I do believe the smart phone, McDonaldized generation has missed out on a tons of things which build character and make the rewards gained from striving to achieve something all that much sweeter, whether it be in games or life.  All of this autopilot, mega-easy, mind numbingly boring game play that has come out in the past few years destroyed the genre for me to be honest.

I agree with you on your points, except for one thing.   I don't believe for a second that GW2 broke the WoW mold.  I think it epitomized it.  I played GW2  for about 3 months (2 months longer than I predicted) before quitting it last November and haven't played since.  It was very good for what it was.  Definitely fun for a short time, but still a McDonaldized version of an MMO, an era that really began with WoW.  The era of...see shiny point on map, go to it, kill the mob/collect your item, return to retrieve your reward, rinse and repeat until max level achieved, quit and find a new game.

For all of those hoping EQNext will be the savior for us old time EQ players, I say don't keep your hopes up.  It's mostly likely going to be the typical vending machine, watered down, see-shiny-and-click, soulless version of what EQ was (even more so than EQ2).  I was an EQ player, and very much enjoyed the time I spent there.  Many times I was surprised that I leveled because it just wasn't something that was primarily focused on, and you didn't play for the sole purpose of increasing some irrelevant number.  I loved the "harsh" penalty if you died, something that made you ultra careful with your actions and increased the intensity of the environment.  Some of the death runs I made to retrieve my corpse and equipment were the most memorable times I had in an game.  Which is one of the problems with the whiny, pampered mentality of today which is, "there is no failure, everyone wins", instead of "you learn more from your mistakes than you do from your successes".

I know I'm a pessimist with this opinion, but don't believe the genre or society will ever return from this instant gratification mindset that has been ingrained into the psyche of today's young  (short of a major revolution).  To simplify it, this is why "don't feed the bears" signs are posted all over state and national parks.  Once you give them easy food (i.e. that they don't have to work for) it's ultimately self-destructive to their own well being.

So what am I playing now for my MMO fix?  Ironically I have been playing Skyrim.  A single player, adventure game gives me the closest thing I can find with an MMO feel to it.  That's a pretty sad statement for the genre.

Originally posted by Naral
Originally posted by botrytis

Asking this poll, in the mostly against GW2 forum here, is skewed results already.


Jes saying - poll is troll bait.


I am still playing.

Not really a fair response if you read most of the "I have not been playing for a while" responses. None of them are "this game sux." Most are people who do/did like the game, it just did not hold them for whatever reason. Just because more people claim to have quit than continue to play does not mean they are bashing the game. It just was not for them, why  is that a big deal?

I count myself in that number. I did not hate the game, rather liked it. But my friends left, and the game got boring to me really quickly. Not hating it, not bashing it, but wanting to like it. 

I will probably go back and give it a go again over xmas break, but at this point I am just waiting on the next mmo.

I think I'm with you as well.  I liked the game a lot while I was playing, but now am not.  I believe I predicted I would play for about 2 months, and I actually lasted about 3, which is longer than I lasted in many of the MMOs I've tried in recent years.  I stopped playing around Thanksgiving, and haven't touched it since. It's funny though, I liked it when I was playing it, but don't miss it now that I'm not.  Might go back to it at a later time, who knows.  

Definitely not a horrible game. Liked the challenge of the dungeons. I was in a super friendly guild which made WvW tons of fun.  Played an 80 mesmer, and everytime I tried another class, I hated it.  Mesmer was the only one for me.

It's a themepark done very well...but nevertheless still a themepark. You simply grow tired of it after a while and need something with a bit more depth.  My reason for leaving is probably nothing more, nothing less than that.

Originally posted by Phry

take away the classes, and use the original skills setup that was in planetside 1, its far superior and allows for a greater degree of flexibility.  i'd also make the bases less 'open plan' and keep to the original basis, Planetside 1 was in desperate need of a graphical update. Though i am more than happy to not see BFR's etc, ever make an appearance in game.

to be honest, i see a lot of things in Planetside 2 that i don't think are really all that well thought out, its not just the introduction of classes in a game that seriously did not need them, its the abilities themselves, cloaking is now a temporary thing that lasts just a few seconds, it eliminates the stealth part of the game almost entirely. Even MAX's i just don't understand what they are doing, they needed to fix Planetside 1, thats true, but thats because they had broke it themselves in the first place, Planetside 2 just seems to be following on from some of the dafter ideas they dumped on Planetside 1 that made the game unpopular. 

Agree.  When I first heard about classes in PS2, the first question that went into my head was...why?

I thought the skill system was nearly perfect in PS1.  All they needed to do was give PS1 the engine of PS2 (which looks very good by the way), then make a few tweaks across the board here and there.

My initial impression of PS2 is that they are trying too much to ride the coat tails of the Battlefield and CoD series.  I hope it turns out right for them.

Originally posted by Cyrael
Originally posted by thekid1

I don't get this talk about "leveling" at all. What's the point in gaining levels, shouldn't you just play and enjoy the game?

If anything, I'm leveling to fast. Before I have explored an area I already am high enough level to go to another area.


It seems as though many players have a hard time doing this. They seem to feel that progression mechanics are the only fun part and that everything else is a means to this end. IMO, this mindset is a huge part of the burnout that plagues many on this forum.


GW2 seems to have been designed with a "the journey is the destination" mindset. I've been pretty much ignoring my level and just roaming around Tyria trying to get 100% on as many maps as possible while joining in any events that pop up nearby.  It's been a far different experience than your standard quest grinding, and it's a system I've found I much prefer.

Same here.  That's how I've been  doing the journey.  I haven't enjoyed an MMO like this is a while, and the level is almost irrelevant to me.  The game certainly isn't perfect (especially glaring WvW issues), but it's one I still look forward to playing everyday.

I can't believe the wide swing in complaints about this game.  It's almost like people want to complain, but they don't know what to complain about.  For years the cries were about leveing too slow (ie. EQ hell levels).  Now the community seems to be crying about leveling too fast??  I don't think anyone knows what they want anymore, but feel empty inside if they're not complaining about something.

I begin to see much more clearly why Ray and Greg left Bioware.  They probably said...the hell with this industry, no one knows what they want anymore, and we're tired of trying to please 13 year old kids who want to be a fireman this week, and a rock star next week.  But I digress...


Originally posted by Torgrim

i stopped reading after you endorsed exploting.

I didn't stop reading, but I got the same disgusting feeling as you did.

Originally posted by mCalvert

The problem with cheating is the mechanics are in favor of the cheater.

1. they take up a queue spot

2. you cant cant kill them

3. if you expose them they can create infinite alts

4. they can lock down seige weps with no way to kick them off


This is not real life. This is a game, and games have rules to ensure a fun and competitive atmosphere where people play with sportsmanship. THis is why you cant horsecollar a football player or excessivly celebrate, or take a dive in sports. AN wants this to be an esport, and there is no sport on earth where spying is allowed.

Now, if you want to make this a full loot, permadeath game with friendlyfire, then we will be happy to sort the problem out ourselves.

This was put beautifully, and sums it up for me as well.  I'm sure others can come up with other reasons why encouraging and making the cheating so easy is a huge turn off to people who just want some decent PvP action.  I can't stand horrible arguments that "this is PvP", and "it's always been going on".  With the good changes that Anet has put forth in the first MMO I've liked in years, I can't believe they dropped the ball on reforming a little bit how the PvP works and crack down a bit more on the cheaters.  Like it's been said, the decent players have absolutely no way to stop the cheaters, which makes it all the more annoying, especially if Anet even encouarges it. 

WvW was the #1 reason I bought the game, and to be honest, this would be a game breaker to me if not at least cracked down on a little bit.  I know it hasn't even been out a month yet, and I'm curious if any attempt to stop this stuff, besides the paid server transfers, will be put into effect.

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