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All Posts by Dakirn

All Posts by Dakirn

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348 posts found

Convo is full of fail.


First, off, go read the Kickstarter rules:


And this part under section 3, prohibited content:

Raffles, lotteries, and sweepstakes


They were asked to take it down because raffles were against the guidelines.


Kickstarter could have cancelled their project outright, instead since it included a raffle and WASN'T a raffle, they asked them to take the raffle down.  If you're paranoid enough to e-mail Kickstarter, go right ahead.. I'm sure they'll tell you the same thing Jatar said.


Second, Jatar said in that same thread that ANYONE who sent him a PM that donated on Kickstarter and DID NOT want to enter again in the crowd funding would be entered.


Simple.  PM him, get entered.


Unfortunately, you threw it in his face and got yourself banned.


If I have to pick credability between you and them.. they win, hands down.


It's unfortunate that Convo donated only for the raffle knowing the project would fail and then thought he'd get screwed, got pissed and ranted.  Even after his rant, Jatar said he would still honor his KS pledge into the raffle.. until Convo threw it in his face, again.


I have no sympathy.

Best event ever?  You like being nickle and dimed in the cash shop for costumes and keys to open chests?


Sigh.. what has the genre come to.

Originally posted by Xarnthal

In this poll we see how many people have NO clue about the MMO industry. 



Originally posted by Crunchy222

Again...everything is so vauge and adding the usual buzzwords doesnt help convice me, maybe others it will...but im not sure what information others are going off of to convice them to donate money.


Everything you asked about has been detailed as much as possible on their forums.  It's Pre-Alpha.  Not Alpha. Not Beta. Not shipping in a few months. Pre-Alpha.


If you think they're going to show you how they do things other people say are "impossible".. I think you're going to be disappointed. The whole point is that they spent 8+ years developing and designing how to do it.


Would you throw your proprietary ideas and how you accomplished them up on the web, after years and millions of R&D so that other people could take them?


Just look at this year's PAX panel where the top developers were saying some of these features were needed, but they had no idea how to do them.  Do you really think that would sit back and say "wow, good job figuring it out!" if it was all explained and in the open for them to use?


No, they would be running off to their teams to write the exact same thing first.


Gaming is a cut throat industry.  It's why most companies don't show ANYTHING until late Alpha or Beta, and ESPECIALLY not HOW they do things.


If you REALLY want to know something, rather than just posting about your doubt because you don't want to research or read their site, you could go register on their forums and ASK THEM.  They are extremely open (up to a point) with everything.

Originally posted by blognorg

So, they canceled their Kickstarter campaign in a day, because there were "new developments". I assume that they got some kind of funding, but does anyone know anything more?

There is a story MMORPG did on it

Apparently an investor they were waiting on came through right after Kickstarter started and they didn't need to do it anymore.

I have another view and a question at the end.


A lot of people say Indies never amounted to anything (lets ignore the fact that indies started the entire industry).  Like it or not, Darkfall was an idie game that made a profit and is even making a new version.


Let me take two example indies that have been mentioned recently on MMORPG... Origins of Malu and Citadel of Sorcery.


Before the question, I preface it with this:  Assume that both of those games release with exactly what they are offering (I'm being highly optimistic here because I want to see if I can cut through imagantive hype of failure)...


Would you play one or both of them?


It's a simple question.  If Origins of Malu created their vision of a world and PvP and it released, would you try it?


If Citadel of Sorcery really did all that they are planning and released, would you play it?


The point I'm trying to make is that consumers don't believe anyone anymore.. if either of those two release exactly what they said they would and it plays exactly like they said it would... would people still call indies failures?  Would successes on either of those scales change what people think of indies?


Or would there still be hatred of indies that they can't ever do anything right, because a few that came before didn't do it right?


A lot of people failed to fly before the Wright brothers figured it out... as is the same in countless other industries to ever exist.


Just because the first few don't succeed doesn't mean that no other will.  I wish people would watch with hopeful scepticism instead of rabid denial and hatred anytime an indie comes up with an idea out of mainstream simply because "if a large publisher didn't do it, then an indie won't be able to either."

Originally posted by Salio69

Interesting calling Ragnarok an Indie game.... Gravity is one of the oldest and well known mmo companies of all time. I wouldn't consider them Indie at all. Their games like RO predate more well known games like World of Warcraft. In the eastern hemisphere, Ragnarok online is extremely well known and considered to be one of the most successful MMOs ever. Theres plenty of offline spin-offs on many platforms inclulding their lastest one which is on the Playstation Vita. To consider this game "Indie" seems like a gross insult to a game which has been widely respected across the globe since the early part of the last decade.

Theres nothing wrong with Indie games but this game is from a professional company, not an indie one.

I think it's a failed assumption that an indie can't also be a "professional" company.


The amount of hate I see for Indie companies is astonishing when you consider they have REAL skin in the game (their own money, not some big publisher's money) and seem to be the ONLY ones willing to give players what they WANT instead of what a publisher THINKS they want.


If there was more support for indies and less for the big publishers that keep pushing out crap maybe the industry would actually change.

Originally posted by Rednecksith

Looks interesting, but not enough so for me to donate some of my (sadly limited) funds. I will say this though: Unlike the kickstarters for Citadel of Sorcery and Pathfinder, they're at least showing folks that they've got something, and not just describing all the 'amazing features' the game will have. Gives them a lot of credibility in my book, and I'll definitely be keeping an eye on the project.

Oh, and I'm 99.9999999% sure the UI shown is a placeholder. At least I really, really, really hope so.

While I agree that it looks like an interesting game, I don't agree with your representation of CoS.  Pathfinder, yes, CoS, no.


The difference is that Gorgon licensed an existing engine.  It's easy to take time to throw content into an engine that already exists.  CoS built their own engine from scratch.


i'm not saying that they shouldn't show more (they said they showed what they can but the technology is what mostly exists and showing that is proprietary and let others see "how" they do what they say they're doing) but match the two games together isn't an accurate comparison.


As far as CoS, they probably won't make their Kickstarter but I'll still be following them since they plan to finish it even if it takes longer.  Until I see proof that they're shutting down or it doesn't work I still have faith in them.


But I totally understand how jaded gamers are now after all the false promises.  I am giving them a chance and those who aren't.. well we can all agree to disagree and see what happens.  No need to be rude to each other or call companies money grabs.. we're all the same community and none of us really want the same junk over and over.

Originally posted by Vannor

[mod edit]


You know that not every indie company has tons of money otherwise they wouldn't be using Kickstarter right?  I find it laughable that people expect small companies to have access to the money they expect them to.


Money doesn't make a great game, just look at SWTOR.  You could have made 10+ MMOs for the cost of that one and much better quality.


By your logic everything on Kickstarter could be a money grab.


The two people working on the game have worked on games before.  They aren't asking for hundreds of thousands of dollars.  It's 55k, and after the 20% Kickstarter takes and taxes it doesn't quite turn into a "money grab."

I like the potential.  They sum up the game pretty well: "quirky."  The game is definately quirky.


Quirky is kind of nice after the junk that's come out lately.  I'm always hoping for more distinct indie games like this.


To the trolls: Not every game has to be a massive success to be a good game.

How is the conduit system different than the field synergy system in GW2?


It sounds exactly the same.. an elementlist throws down an ice field and people use attacks to take advantage of it.


Are the conduit attacks simply a single extra attack?


I mean no offense, but you make this sound like it's a revolutionary idea..


I'm a bit worried about their economy based on crafting too, after what happened with GW2 :/


Personally I always loathed phasing.  MMOs are supposed to immerse you in the world and now you have parts of the world that are totally different than the person sitting in the room next to you?  Ugh.


Instancing I can at least wrap my head around.  Phasing is just such a cheap ploy to make people think the world is changing when it isn't changing at all.. it's a cheap illusion.


I'd take an instance over phased world any day.  I feel phasing is breaking the community up even more... and TES is going to have instancing (zone copies) AND phasing together?  Why not just play a single player game? :/


I had some hope that maybe this would be worth playing but the phasing is honestly a deal breaker for me, someone who plays MMOs with other people.

Originally posted by blognorg


There are always going to be skeptics. And that's fine, as long as they are informed. There's still a lot that I don't know about CoS, and it'll be those details that will make or break it for me. I like a lot of the things that they talk about. And after reading the developer blog, it seems like they already have a lot of it working. However, I still don't know anything about how the skills, leveling or gear works. I just can't take another color-coordinated, stat-gernerated system. Or a crafting system like Gw2/WoW that we've all seen a million+ times. I doubt they are going to stick very close to that, but I'm suprised of where some games decied to stick to convention, so I'm just waiting to see. Another thing is the quests. It definitely sounds like it has potential, but with such an ambition system, it seems like there's more that could go wrong. Can you imagine if the implemented some "!" system. That would kill it for me on the spot. But with such an open-ended quest system, I wonder how they are going to help players along without blantantly putting a marker on their map. Despite many of the unknowns, it's most anticipated MMO on the horizon.


There is nothing in CoS like what you're talking about.  Read the FAQ on the site, or even make a forum account there and ask.. the developers actually respond to their community.


Skills: 1890 unique abilities, there is no class system.  You can learn any ability, you start with 10 basic ones.  You can get the tome of knowlede for any ability you want through a quest or buying from another player.  You can practice to increase skill for a little, then you put study points in to keep making an ability more powerful.  There is no cap (just diminising returns far down the line).

Levels: There are two levels, Grim and Radiant.  There is no level cap and it's designed so high and low level players can group/quest together.

Crafting/gear: Has a potential value and you determine it's stats through what they call Crafting by Adventure. You research enhancements you want on the item and do a quest to get a talisman or rune to work into the item, using potential but making the item custom.  Also since the power is in the enhancements, you can make any item look like anything you want.. magical robes are as good as platemail.

Quests: Oh my god no.  There is no "!" .. there is no marker at all.  There aren't quests in the WoW sense.  You have your personal story, which is what you are doing.  When you need to continue your story, the game finds ways to get you on the quest.. be it a messenger finding you, or an NPC accosting you on the street.  There are no quest giver NPCs (since they all live lives and never stand around) and no player will get the same quest from the same NPC EVER.

That's a brief rundown of things you mentioned.  I'd really suggest you register on their forums and ask them directly anything you're concerned about because they'll answer it.

Originally posted by mmoDAD

This is good news.


People can bash SOE all they want. The fact of the matter is that they launched the only two MMO I've ever played longer than 30 days: SWG & EQ2. Playen 'em both for years. They dropped a bomb with NGE, but we all learn from mistakes.

How many years ago were those and how many of those developers/designers are on EQNext?


It isn't the company that makes the product, it's the people.  If none of those people are around anymore, how are you certain it will be a good product?


MMOs aren't like dish soap, customer loyalty runs thin.  Just look at FFXI and FFXIV.. same company, totally different results.


I'll watch and wait before getting excited.

Originally posted by XAPGames

Unfortunately for many it works out like this:


Player: I want new, I want innovative, I want fresh gameplay...


Interviewer: Well have you tried Brand-X Indie Game?


Player: Yeah, but it sucked.  Nothing like a mainstream game and the graphics looked it was done by a bunch of guys in a garage.


Interviewer:  Well it was done by a bunch of guys in a garage.


Player:  See, I was right then.

Yeah.. a lot of people are so caught up in looks of a game and forget that it's a game.


In CoS's case, they've tried to explain the models and graphics of the current PRE-ALPHA state, but people just don't read it I guess.  It's placeholder, as in temporary, as in to be chucked away.. one of the bottle necks funding is needed for.


The entire PC/NPC set of models were thrown together as high poly models to test the engine.  Not a single one is staying because the ACTUAL body generation system hasn't been written yet (and is incredibly important because it is also used to generate unique NPCs for the questhing system).


They've always been up front on their forums about it and the stuff on their site and the KS project.. the engine and game isn't complete.. it's not even to Alpha.  It still needs work, but pretty sparklies weren't the top priority for a workable Alpha when you have the other goals of an earth sized planet, NPCs living lives, and their questing system.  Pretty graphics, particle effects engines and PC/NPC model generation systems are not "unknown risks" that are impossible to do.  If they had made those first, all they would have is some pretty bodies, particle effects and absolutely nothing else.


Unfortunately too many people see what's there rather than the potential of what will be there by time it's anywhere CLOSE to releasing (again.. pre-alpha, not alpha... most games don't show anything at all before alpha, usually late alpha).


The fortunate part for me (and others who are interested in CoS) is that they've always planned to release the game no matter the outcome of KS.  It's just going to take longer.  I hope they end up doing their own crowd sourcing (besides investors and publishers once the Alpha is working).


Origins of Malu looks like a pretty good game too, yet some players can't get around their models/graphics/art.


Xyson, same way.


It's unfortunate that for a large portion of the player base it seems like looks greatly trump the game play, especially when so many are nostalgic for games like vanilla EQ, DAoC, Ultima Online, etc.


I still think Indies are the future of MMORPGs, though.. the ones that will take the financial risk to make a big change because they love games and the genre and not because they're looking for the highest rate of return on the investment.


At least Minecraft is doing okay.

Originally posted by JeroKane
Also, if they gonna abbandon the Quest system, you can no longer really call it EverQuest in my opinion.

This sentence doesn't make sense.


Everquest started with absolutely no quests at all.. unless you call the jboots quest a "quest".......


They had a couple things that were more afterthoughts than any actual cohesive questing system, and they didnt even work that well to start.


I remember the hours and days of AC camping for jboots and if those are the "quests" you think EQ will lose and never be the same, I'll be happy to see them go.


EQ2 quests were just a hop of the DAoC/WoW bandwagon.  EQ2 was in development for a very long time (hell even the videos they showed at game shows wasn't the actual finished product).. they surely didn't invent any "questing" system.

Originally posted by Ozmodan
I spend my money on active games, not something that is a figment of someone's imagination.  Most of these games never make it to production, especially MMO's.  Even well funded MMO's don't have a great track record.  So if you don't mind throwing money away, then fund it, but I have a limited gaming budget and am going to use it on something that is real.

Real doesn't mean good.


Now you're just throwing your money away on crap, the same crap that has been making the entire genre complete trash.


This is one of the reasons why publishers keep selling us the same crap over and over again and make money on it.  Some people yell for innovation but then shoot down any idea when it comes along.


This isn't just about CoS, I've seen the same trend with other indie MMOs lately.  Everyone thinks that a publisher means you know what you're doing.  SWTOR had a publisher.  FFXIV had a publisher.  A publisher doesn't mean you're making a good game, it means you convinced someone to spend a lot of money.


As far as CoS goes, they've been working for years without looking for a publisher because they wanted to prove it can be done.  I for one will be glad to see them accomplish it, even if takes another 8 years.. because the way things are going now, in 8 years all we'll have is GW2 clones.


The thread I saw a while back about players being the problem with MMOs is true.  Everyone says speak with your wallet but nobody does.  They speak alright, they say that they want the same clone crap to play with forums to cry about it on.

Originally posted by Salio69
a large massive world sounds like a sparse populated land. no point in playing an mmo if you arent playing with other people. unless everyone stays in one place and which case the rest of the world is just a waste. i like the concept but in reality, not gonna work.

If you've read through what they post, the game doesn't take place in the entire world.  There are territories that are about the size of WoW each.  Those territories sit on the planet, though, and you can explore out from them and see things nobody else ever has.


It's also plenty of room to grow, which they plan to do with their other games taking place in the same world, on the same planet.


They use some very advanced planet generation stuff to do it (they have a YouTube channel with videos that talk about it).


I would suggest if you're interested in it at all you read up on it because it seems like they've figured out the answers to problems like that already.

If you think that "only this game is toxic, the next one will be okay" you really are looking through rose colored glasses.


Sorry, but the players don't let crap like this ride.  If they came out with their next product, everyone will be like "oh after FFXIV I won't go near a Square/Enix game again!"


Just look what happened to AoC and Funcom, people won't even consider TSW no matter how good of a game it is.  And AoC was NOWHERE near as bad as FFXIV.


Personally no amount of "rebirth" could interest me in this game, nor can I support a studio that admit their game is complete crap and then makes them pay a premium price to play it.


Thanks, but no thanks.

Nice post.. covers a lot of stuff I've seen people talking about.
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